I have played in several sessions where the characters could only forage to obtain food when spells, taverns, or your local "Provisions" were not available. I have asked at times when we kill a creature if it is possible to cook/cure/pack/prepare/store the creature for food. I would assume something like a bear or shark is acceptable; but I would push for crocodiles and squids to be included. The PHB has items like tackles and traps so there is a precedent to capture a creature for the purpose of food. So why can't the party set aside "food" after an encounter ends with the challenged creature(s) death?
Is there an official rule that defines what creatures can be used as food? I would assume sentient creatures would be off limits. But are all beasts open for hunting and fishing? Is there a lower classification that musts be considered? Is it just taboo in general? Or is it a table rule?
I have played in several sessions where the characters could only forage to obtain food when spells, taverns, or your local "Provisions" were not available. I have asked at times when we kill a creature if it is possible to cook/cure/pack/prepare/store the creature for food. I would assume something like a bear or shark is acceptable; but I would push for crocodiles and squids to be included. The PHB has items like tackles and traps so there is a precedent to capture a creature for the purpose of food. So why can't the party set aside "food" after an encounter ends with the challenged creature(s) death?
Is there an official rule that defines what creatures can be used as food? I would assume sentient creatures would be off limits. But are all beasts open for hunting and fishing? Is there a lower classification that musts be considered? Is it just taboo in general? Or is it a table rule?
Thank you for your thoughts and comments. Cheers!
I would as a dm rule as such:
Simple game, cr 1/2 or lower, if you can kill it, and grill it, then you can make a meal of it with a survival check dc based on cr and creature type.
If there is a limit on 1/2 CR then that means that Allosaurus, Brown Bear, Cave Bear, Dire Wolf, Giant Boar, Giant Crayfish, Giant Elk, Hunter Shark, Killer Whale, Lion, and Saber-Tooth Tiger would be off limits.
I like your ruling of using a Survival check to verify a character can make suitable food from the creature. You presented a very good decision based with justifiable criteria, and I applaud you for this. Fantastic ruling. Cheers!
If there is a limit on 1/2 CR then that means that Allosaurus, Brown Bear, Cave Bear, Dire Wolf, Giant Boar, Giant Crayfish, Giant Elk, Hunter Shark, Killer Whale, Lion, and Saber-Tooth Tiger would be off limits.
I like your ruling of using a Survival check to verify a character can make suitable food from the creature. You presented a very good decision based with justifiable criteria, and I applaud you for this. Fantastic ruling. Cheers!
1/2CR is just a base, expand as desired.
One good days hunt for food could keep a group maintained for a few days, saving time for more of other activities that could help generate more DM fuel for the fire.
I'd rule that anything that's a beast and isn't noted as being poisonous can be food. Though some might, to quote a certain ranger from Down Under, fall into the category of "you can live off it, but it tastes like ****."
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I would say that most beasts and even some monstrosities would be edible. Even some that have poison based attacks could still be edible if treated properly. Cut a rattlesnake’s head off about an inch or so back and you’re safely removed the venom sacks. (Just bury the head as its decentralized nervous system means it can still bite.) Rattlesnake isn’t even really all that bad, a little chewy, but not bad.
As to your question about preserving the food, cooked food will generally keep for 1-3ish days without refrigeration before it starts to spoil, so eat up. That time period can be extended to up to 8 days (depending on what it is) if you boil the bejeepers outta it for at least 5 minutes each day. Your other options are to salt pack it, cure it, smoke it, or pickle it. Most of those require a certain amount of specific equipment and some time. How much time varies by method and product. Curing might be tricky if you’re on the move since it typically requires a curing shed of some kind, same for smoking, but there are quick-methods that can be done faster, especially for certain foods such as eel. Salt packing or pickling could probably be accomplished with cook's utensils provided you have enough containers and salt with you.
There are also plenty of spells that could help with food preservation. I don't allow Create or Destroy Water to be cast on living creatures, but I have no issue with it being used to dry out meat or fruit, for example.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Generally speaking I wouldn't bog down the game too much in details; I'd call it someone with Survival can take half an hour and roll Survival to field dress a Medium or larger Beast or Monstrosity to feed the party for the day (for Small and Tiny I'd say that a party in active combat mashed that up too bad to leave enough good material). Naturally, if they try to do this in hostile territory there's a chance they'll be interrupted. Second check and another half hour to preserve some from a Large or bigger for 1d4-1 days. Maybe call it 12 and 15 on the checks respectively (basically I figure you want failure on the first part to be less than half for tier 1 no expertise, but still significant, and about even odds for no expertise at that tier for the second).
For small game, I'd put that under several hours of activity when the players are on the "world map" as opposed to actively moving their figures around an area. DC varies by region, feeds the party for 1 day if they pass.
Ultimately, 5e generally prefers you just handwave food with rations or spells like Goodberry or Create Food and Water when you're in the wild, and while that does make survival stuff less immersive, it also reduces the amount of time the majority of the party has to spend sitting around waiting while the DM and one player sort out some rolls for something with relatively little narrative payout. Not saying this is something that should absolutely never happen, but you do need to consider how the whole table will feel if you stop everything so one player can tool around with some rolls for more than a few minutes. People can have their scene, but taking 10 minutes or more to figure out how someone cuts up an owlbear just for it to vanish into the bottomless void of "miscellaneous items the party picks up" is something you don't want to do unless you know your group is okay with sitting back and spectating from time to time.
Slightly relevant, Delicious in Dungeon is actually kinda fun. The Netflix show, that is. The original manga I've never seen. Might be the same, I guess? I dunno.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
i do not see why the whole party could not search at one time.
The character with the best survival score could just make a quick check of what they bring in to make sure its safe. He could also be the one who processes it for later use.
i do not see why the whole party could not search at one time.
The character with the best survival score could just make a quick check of what they bring in to make sure its safe. He could also be the one who processes it for later use.
RAW you could do so.
Survival is one of the skills in my game that if you don't have it, you can't roll. Why? Because wilderness survival (hunting, fishing, trapping, stalking, being able to identify edible materials, knowing where a good place to shelter) is a skill that somebody born and raised in an urban environment would not know.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
i do not see why the whole party could not search at one time.
The character with the best survival score could just make a quick check of what they bring in to make sure its safe. He could also be the one who processes it for later use.
Strictly speaking there's no reason they can't, but regardless of how you spin it this it's still basically just one character's scene unless you let the whole party spam rolls, which just bogs things down further. Also depends what you're doing; the whole party trying to butcher a corpse at once is more likely to just make a mess of it.
I just do not see why anyone can not try to do a survival check even at disadvantage if they do not have the skill.
Anyone can try to hunt fish or gather known foods. Those without skill stand very little chance of getting much but they should be allowed to try.
Even an urbanite would know they could eat small animals and fish. Drink water. Getting them would be the only problem. But an archer shooting a rabbit? Obvious.
Shooting a rabbit is considerably different from being able to properly skin and cook one. Or knowing which organs to eat and which to definitely not eat. Or how to take the guts out without contaminating the meat. None of those are things that are easy to do if you don't know how. And forget trying to eat wild plants or fruit if you don't have the skills to identify the good ones, at best you're in for a night of very painful stomach cramps and at worst, well, at least you won't have to worry about starving at that point.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Foraging enough good food to support a group of active individuals is definitely not something you can wing off of your "intuition or observational skills". There's some other stuff I'd let someone try under Survival without a prof like building a shelter, but it's not bad DMing to say that certain specific functions of a skill require the proficiency to make the attempt.
Foraging enough good food to support a group of active individuals is definitely not something you can wing off of your "intuition or observational skills". There's some other stuff I'd let someone try under Survival without a prof like building a shelter, but it's not bad DMing to say that certain specific functions of a skill require the proficiency to make the attempt.
That is why i said someone skilled would check and process the food.
By doing that he could even pass on a little knowledge and give a new skill to someone.
Foraging enough good food to support a group of active individuals is definitely not something you can wing off of your "intuition or observational skills". There's some other stuff I'd let someone try under Survival without a prof like building a shelter, but it's not bad DMing to say that certain specific functions of a skill require the proficiency to make the attempt.
That is why i said someone skilled would check and process the food.
By doing that he could even pass on a little knowledge and give a new skill to someone.
Which is why I said here that such an approach ultimately makes the rest of the party's involvement nominal; they're not describing courses of action and/or making rolls, they're just set pieces for someone else's roll. Which does not mean this never should happen, just something to keep in mind regarding collective table engagement vs time spent on an event.
And, in D&D terms, they can't "pass on a new skill" based on a single instance; the examples of training in a skill are a matter of weeks, not hours.
But if the party is spending weeks out in the wilderness they could gain the knowledge from someone willing to teach them. It would certainly not be game breaking.
In the end its all DM fiat.
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and by that, I mean food.
I have played in several sessions where the characters could only forage to obtain food when spells, taverns, or your local "Provisions" were not available. I have asked at times when we kill a creature if it is possible to cook/cure/pack/prepare/store the creature for food. I would assume something like a bear or shark is acceptable; but I would push for crocodiles and squids to be included. The PHB has items like tackles and traps so there is a precedent to capture a creature for the purpose of food. So why can't the party set aside "food" after an encounter ends with the challenged creature(s) death?
Is there an official rule that defines what creatures can be used as food? I would assume sentient creatures would be off limits. But are all beasts open for hunting and fishing? Is there a lower classification that musts be considered? Is it just taboo in general? Or is it a table rule?
Thank you for your thoughts and comments. Cheers!
I would as a dm rule as such:
Simple game, cr 1/2 or lower, if you can kill it, and grill it, then you can make a meal of it with a survival check dc based on cr and creature type.
I bring this up just for discussion purposes.
If there is a limit on 1/2 CR then that means that Allosaurus, Brown Bear, Cave Bear, Dire Wolf, Giant Boar, Giant Crayfish, Giant Elk, Hunter Shark, Killer Whale, Lion, and Saber-Tooth Tiger would be off limits.
I like your ruling of using a Survival check to verify a character can make suitable food from the creature. You presented a very good decision based with justifiable criteria, and I applaud you for this. Fantastic ruling. Cheers!
1/2CR is just a base, expand as desired.
One good days hunt for food could keep a group maintained for a few days, saving time for more of other activities that could help generate more DM fuel for the fire.
I'd rule that anything that's a beast and isn't noted as being poisonous can be food. Though some might, to quote a certain ranger from Down Under, fall into the category of "you can live off it, but it tastes like ****."
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I would say that most beasts and even some monstrosities would be edible. Even some that have poison based attacks could still be edible if treated properly. Cut a rattlesnake’s head off about an inch or so back and you’re safely removed the venom sacks. (Just bury the head as its decentralized nervous system means it can still bite.) Rattlesnake isn’t even really all that bad, a little chewy, but not bad.
As to your question about preserving the food, cooked food will generally keep for 1-3ish days without refrigeration before it starts to spoil, so eat up. That time period can be extended to up to 8 days (depending on what it is) if you boil the bejeepers outta it for at least 5 minutes each day. Your other options are to salt pack it, cure it, smoke it, or pickle it. Most of those require a certain amount of specific equipment and some time. How much time varies by method and product. Curing might be tricky if you’re on the move since it typically requires a curing shed of some kind, same for smoking, but there are quick-methods that can be done faster, especially for certain foods such as eel. Salt packing or pickling could probably be accomplished with cook's utensils provided you have enough containers and salt with you.
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There are also plenty of spells that could help with food preservation. I don't allow Create or Destroy Water to be cast on living creatures, but I have no issue with it being used to dry out meat or fruit, for example.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Generally speaking I wouldn't bog down the game too much in details; I'd call it someone with Survival can take half an hour and roll Survival to field dress a Medium or larger Beast or Monstrosity to feed the party for the day (for Small and Tiny I'd say that a party in active combat mashed that up too bad to leave enough good material). Naturally, if they try to do this in hostile territory there's a chance they'll be interrupted. Second check and another half hour to preserve some from a Large or bigger for 1d4-1 days. Maybe call it 12 and 15 on the checks respectively (basically I figure you want failure on the first part to be less than half for tier 1 no expertise, but still significant, and about even odds for no expertise at that tier for the second).
For small game, I'd put that under several hours of activity when the players are on the "world map" as opposed to actively moving their figures around an area. DC varies by region, feeds the party for 1 day if they pass.
Ultimately, 5e generally prefers you just handwave food with rations or spells like Goodberry or Create Food and Water when you're in the wild, and while that does make survival stuff less immersive, it also reduces the amount of time the majority of the party has to spend sitting around waiting while the DM and one player sort out some rolls for something with relatively little narrative payout. Not saying this is something that should absolutely never happen, but you do need to consider how the whole table will feel if you stop everything so one player can tool around with some rolls for more than a few minutes. People can have their scene, but taking 10 minutes or more to figure out how someone cuts up an owlbear just for it to vanish into the bottomless void of "miscellaneous items the party picks up" is something you don't want to do unless you know your group is okay with sitting back and spectating from time to time.
Slightly relevant, Delicious in Dungeon is actually kinda fun. The Netflix show, that is. The original manga I've never seen. Might be the same, I guess? I dunno.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I sometimes handwave the details and have the players make Survival checks - one for shelter, one for food.
If they roll well on the food, they find enough for two days.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
i do not see why the whole party could not search at one time.
The character with the best survival score could just make a quick check of what they bring in to make sure its safe. He could also be the one who processes it for later use.
RAW you could do so.
Survival is one of the skills in my game that if you don't have it, you can't roll. Why? Because wilderness survival (hunting, fishing, trapping, stalking, being able to identify edible materials, knowing where a good place to shelter) is a skill that somebody born and raised in an urban environment would not know.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Strictly speaking there's no reason they can't, but regardless of how you spin it this it's still basically just one character's scene unless you let the whole party spam rolls, which just bogs things down further. Also depends what you're doing; the whole party trying to butcher a corpse at once is more likely to just make a mess of it.
I just do not see why anyone can not try to do a survival check even at disadvantage if they do not have the skill.
Anyone can try to hunt fish or gather known foods. Those without skill stand very little chance of getting much but they should be allowed to try.
Even an urbanite would know they could eat small animals and fish. Drink water. Getting them would be the only problem. But an archer shooting a rabbit? Obvious.
Shooting a rabbit is considerably different from being able to properly skin and cook one. Or knowing which organs to eat and which to definitely not eat. Or how to take the guts out without contaminating the meat. None of those are things that are easy to do if you don't know how. And forget trying to eat wild plants or fruit if you don't have the skills to identify the good ones, at best you're in for a night of very painful stomach cramps and at worst, well, at least you won't have to worry about starving at that point.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Foraging enough good food to support a group of active individuals is definitely not something you can wing off of your "intuition or observational skills". There's some other stuff I'd let someone try under Survival without a prof like building a shelter, but it's not bad DMing to say that certain specific functions of a skill require the proficiency to make the attempt.
That is why i said someone skilled would check and process the food.
By doing that he could even pass on a little knowledge and give a new skill to someone.
Survival definitely to find and procure the food, but I also like to find ways to make tool proficiencies like cook’s utensils useful.
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Which is why I said here that such an approach ultimately makes the rest of the party's involvement nominal; they're not describing courses of action and/or making rolls, they're just set pieces for someone else's roll. Which does not mean this never should happen, just something to keep in mind regarding collective table engagement vs time spent on an event.
And, in D&D terms, they can't "pass on a new skill" based on a single instance; the examples of training in a skill are a matter of weeks, not hours.
Did i say instantly?
But if the party is spending weeks out in the wilderness they could gain the knowledge from someone willing to teach them. It would certainly not be game breaking.
In the end its all DM fiat.