Our rogue keeps pickpocketing the other players and stealing the loot we're in the process of looting. I am the only person who is bothered by the rogue stealing from the rest of the party, and I brought it up when the rogued tried to steal two huge emeralds I'd found after I'd said I wanted a bigger cut of the payout since I'd passed the slight of hand check to take them (after I'd passed the roll, the person playing the rogue immediately said we should divide them equally amongst the party, which is why I pushed back). The DM let the rogue make a slight of hand roll to steal, and I tried to set a hard boundary with this (I got upset and said I was not okay with the other player just taking them), but our DM kept trying to force me into the interaction. After this, our barbarian player (OOC) said the party should feed my character to the dragon that was pursuing us. I said my character would leave if they tried to do that, and our DM told me I'd have to make a new character and start at level 1 (party was level 4) if I did that. A few sessions later, I asked the DM outside of gameplay if we could discuss boundaries and etiquette as a group, and he didn't give me an answer and we didn't do it. The next time it happened–the following session–I asked for it to stop, the DM allowed it, I tried to stop it via roleplay, and I'm pretty sure our rogue then cheated on their roll to pass the check of my character stealing back the stolen loot (I had passed a perception check to notice the rogue was stealing and then passed a persuasion check to persuade them to give it back, but they didn't respect the persuasion check and kept the loot anyway). I ended up getting mad and snapping at the player–I told them that I found that behavior really annoying. The DM told me they could play however they want, and now the whole party is mad at me for snapping at the other player. I feel so incredibly frustrated, because I tried to address this outside of the game with the DM, I asked for a conversation, I was ignored, and now I'm the ******* for getting mad. It has caused a lot of tension in the group, and the DM finally decided to implement etiquette rules, and no stealing from party members is on the list.
From what I've read in other forums, no stealing from the party is a pretty common rule. Am I being unreasonable to be so upset about this if the rest of the party is okay with the behavior? At this point, I'm more upset about my requests for discussion being ignored for so long (several months) than I am about the rogue actually stealing shit.
Conclusion: Thank you to everyone who responded. I ended up leaving the party. Things ended up escalating outside of the campaign (due to this incident) and becoming unnecessarily personal. Ain’t nobody got time for that. Hoping to join a new group where there’s an option to discuss things as a team when someone is uncomfortable or dislikes the way things are going! Happy rolling, everyone.
I tried to set a hard boundary with this, but our DM kept trying to force me into the interaction. After this, our barbarian player (OOC) said the party should feed my character to the dragon that was pursuing us. I said my character would leave if they tried to do that, and our DM told me I'd have to make a new character and start at level 1 (party was level 4) if I did that
...
A few sessions later, I asked the DM outside of gameplay if we could discuss boundaries and etiquette as a group, and he didn't give me an answer and we didn't do it.
You tried to resolve it OOC (not that I think it could have been if everyone else is trampling on/disregarding your feelings this way) and it didn't work. Leave that group immediately; no gaming is better than bad gaming.
Groups that don't respect boundaries are bs. Also, starting over at level 1 for having a character leave? Feel like that's just petty and punishing the player.
Your party and your DM both did a number of things wrong - I will not go so far as to say the theft itself was wrong (plenty of groups can get away with and enjoy that kind of in character drama without it becoming a table level problem), but their retaliation and continued behavior against you does strike me as a problem.
But that does not mean you are an innocent party in all this - and I think it is important to recognize our own contributions to problems before quitting a campaign.
There is another way to read your post - and, while I am not saying I ascribe to this reading, I expect it is how your other party members viewed the situation. “A selfish player tries to take a disproportionate amount of the loot. The rogue tries to fix that problem in-game at a character level. The first player throws a fit and elevates the problem to a table level. The other players get annoyed and frustrated with that player. That player keeps harping on the issue at a table level, even after the session is well over and done with.”
You see, to many players, one person hoarding loot is seen as a red flag, akin to party theft. Like theft, I do not think your actions are bad on their face, but I have been around these forums long enough to know “party should share everything equally” is a pervasive belief. Additionally, raising a character-level problem to a table level problem is often viewed as problematic - there are times it is necessary, but it always is going to be seen as an third wall breaking nuclear option.
Once again, I am not saying any of this to accuse you of impropriety - merely to help you understand how the others at your table might have perceived (perhaps incorrectly) your behavior, and how this perception (even if wrong) might have shaped their own.
So, what does that mean for you moving forward? Well, it means the problems likely stem from misunderstandings - and misunderstandings can usually be sorted out with a candid conversation. Since they do not seem willing to engage in conversation, you have three ways of moving forward.
First, just keep playing. Armed with the knowledge of why they might have acted as they did, you could forgive them for the misunderstanding, move past it yourself, and get on with the game. You now also have a better knowledge of their triggers and can try to avoid those - and hope they will avoid yours.
Second, you could try talking with them again. But, this time, lead with an apology for your own contributions. Even if they did not listen the first time, folks are much more likely to listen and admit their own flawed behavior if the other person admits it first.
Third, you can walk away from the game and not return, as others have suggested.
The choice is yours and yours alone. Just try to make that choice with open eyes and after some consideration of their behavior - and of your own.
But it looks like you were not the only one learning during your play. It looks like the DM learned also.
He might have started out thinking it would be fun to have the party free play and let them steal from each other with no limits. But I think he too has found out it causes trouble when unchecked.
In our groups we do allow a LITTLE gathering of a FEW extra coins from a found hoard. But non of our characters goes so far as to take the most valuable of anything and leaves those things that would be best in other specialists hands.
A little theft and pick-pocketing is what the rogue is for. If they are caught picking the pockets of party members then its just a training exercise. They give anything picked back and the other party members know it will happen and everything will get back to them. In fact they might even find a few extra coin if the party passes through a town.
Fighters have to practice in down time. And so do rogues. Its best to come to an agreement with at lest one or two other party members so the rogue has some practice targets.
It sounds to me the type of game you want and the type of game the other players want is very different.
There is no solution beyond finding a new group.
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Don't let one's fun ruin the fun of others.. There's character behaviors that don't bother group if kept in check and don't get out of control to the detriment of the party and everyone else's fun. But anytime it does like stealing or PVP, it has to be addressed by DM and players before it affect gameplay fun or dissolve the group.
Everything above is pretty good advise. Leaving is probably the best answer.
However, if you do not want to leave your party for reasons consider that the thief is now in possession of valuables that were stolen. Perhaps there are those that might want those items back? For themselves? Maybe just sell out your party to the local thieves guild for fun and profit? Would it be wrong to sell them all into slavery at this point?
What I'm saying is maybe find a way to worry less and learn to love the bomb.
It sounds like a bad group and petty DM. It doesn't like a group for you. But i get it, it can be hard to leave a group. Plus they aren't always easy to find
Your party and your DM both did a number of things wrong - I will not go so far as to say the theft itself was wrong (plenty of groups can get away with and enjoy that kind of in character drama without it becoming a table level problem), but their retaliation and continued behavior against you does strike me as a problem.
But that does not mean you are an innocent party in all this - and I think it is important to recognize our own contributions to problems before quitting a campaign.
There is another way to read your post - and, while I am not saying I ascribe to this reading, I expect it is how your other party members viewed the situation. “A selfish player tries to take a disproportionate amount of the loot. The rogue tries to fix that problem in-game at a character level. The first player throws a fit and elevates the problem to a table level. The other players get annoyed and frustrated with that player. That player keeps harping on the issue at a table level, even after the session is well over and done with.”
You see, to many players, one person hoarding loot is seen as a red flag, akin to party theft. Like theft, I do not think your actions are bad on their face, but I have been around these forums long enough to know “party should share everything equally” is a pervasive belief. Additionally, raising a character-level problem to a table level problem is often viewed as problematic - there are times it is necessary, but it always is going to be seen as an third wall breaking nuclear option.
Once again, I am not saying any of this to accuse you of impropriety - merely to help you understand how the others at your table might have perceived (perhaps incorrectly) your behavior, and how this perception (even if wrong) might have shaped their own.
So, what does that mean for you moving forward? Well, it means the problems likely stem from misunderstandings - and misunderstandings can usually be sorted out with a candid conversation. Since they do not seem willing to engage in conversation, you have three ways of moving forward.
First, just keep playing. Armed with the knowledge of why they might have acted as they did, you could forgive them for the misunderstanding, move past it yourself, and get on with the game. You now also have a better knowledge of their triggers and can try to avoid those - and hope they will avoid yours.
Second, you could try talking with them again. But, this time, lead with an apology for your own contributions. Even if they did not listen the first time, folks are much more likely to listen and admit their own flawed behavior if the other person admits it first.
Third, you can walk away from the game and not return, as others have suggested.
The choice is yours and yours alone. Just try to make that choice with open eyes and after some consideration of their behavior - and of your own.
I think this is the most helpful comment I've read thus far. I think you're spot on how how they perceived it. I'm frustrated because I did attempt to address my concern with the DM outside of gameplay (we weren't playing DND, we were just hanging out when I brought it up), and I asked the DM to initiate a group conversation (not a flat-out ban, although I would prefer not stealing from other character's inventories). He just... didn't do anything.
I did apologize to the player I snapped at yesterday, but they didn't say anything back about recognizing that I kept expressing I was not okay with what was happening and they kept choosing to do it anyway. I'm really not feeling good about the whole thing, and I am contemplating leaving the group.
The "if your character leaves, your new character will have to start off at level one" is strange and does seem incredibly petty (assuming there aren't other significant details you have left out). Stranger to me though is that this affects the DM just as much as you. Creating a balanced encounter with multiple level 4 characters and a single level 1 character is definitely more of a challenge for your DM. Either it's too easy and the level 4s mop the floor, or it's balanced for them and your level 1 has to hide in the back in the hopes of not meeting his/her/their (likely immediate) end.
The "if your character leaves, your new character will have to start off at level one" is strange.
Well, it's strange to people used to 5e. It was the standard in 1e, though the way experience points worked in AD&D tended to make things even out fairly quickly if you somehow managed to survive.
Wanting more loot because you made a good roll is a problem starter.
What if the fighter crited and killed a boss who was tough? Or, the wizards total body count was x5 more than everyone else's? Do they get more loot?
This style of play brings me back to 1979 AD&D where players would *at times* attack each other but nowadays more consideration is given to the group as a whole.
Hope things work out for you and the group. You can't change them but you can change your actions and try to influence how others react.
It's funny because the rogues I keep playing with don't even pick pockets (haven't seen one do it yet), yet my wizard does a lot of rogue like stuff. But, that said, I would not play in a campaign where the rogue was pickpocketing me, but it's really the DMs fault for allowing it.
Additionally, raising a character-level problem to a table level problem is often viewed as problematic - there are times it is necessary, but it always is going to be seen as an third wall breaking nuclear option.
I want to highlight this, because while I agree it's a common perception, I think it's one we should push back on for the good of the default play environment. I rarely see a table that cleanly separates "character problems" from "table problems", but I often see tables that _think_ they have that separation. The fact of the matter is, smooth-running tables don't have unplanned "character problems".
Regarding the specific case, the central issue is a difference in assumptions about the way loot should be distributed. This is a table problem. We shouldn't blame the OP for "escalating" the issue, though I agree they're equally at fault in starting it. If a player wants to have a good faith conversation about table boundaries, that conversation should be had. Deflecting the issue by saying it's a character-level problem is unproductive.
Certainly, your situation seems challenging, and it’s understandable that you feel uncomfortable. In D&D, as in any group activity, it’s important for all players to feel comfortable and enjoy the game.
Remind the players and the DM of your concerns repeatedly. Emphasize how it’s affecting the enjoyment of the game and express your feelings to the group again clearly. Request a group discussion about party dynamics and game etiquette. It’s important that all players are on the same page and respect each other’s boundaries. Suggest practical solutions such as implementing a rule that allows player vs. player actions, including theft, only with the player’s consent, or creating in-game consequences for such actions that are consistent with the story. Consider whether the group’s play style is compatible with yours. The fundamental approaches to the game may differ from yours, and you may need to evaluate whether this group is right for you, and I think you should leave the group. Have another private conversation with the DM to express your concerns. The DM plays a crucial role in ensuring the game is fun and fair for everyone. Decide on Your Participation: If the situation doesn’t improve and you still feel excluded, you may need to reconsider your participation in the campaign. No game is worth sacrificing your mental health.
Remember, D&D is about collaborative storytelling and having fun. If any aspect of the game is consistently causing distress, it’s important to address it. My advice for resolving this issue is to gather the entire party and DM, either in-game or out-of-game, and discuss it.
The "if your character leaves, your new character will have to start off at level one" is strange.
Well, it's strange to people used to 5e. It was the standard in 1e, though the way experience points worked in AD&D tended to make things even out fairly quickly if you somehow managed to survive.
This seems a rather strange response as I think it's safe to assume we are responding to a question related to 5e. I too remember 1e where having to add characters at level 1 to a mixed level party was not at all uncommon due to much higher character death rates, but that seems sort of irrelevant here.
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Our rogue keeps pickpocketing the other players and stealing the loot we're in the process of looting. I am the only person who is bothered by the rogue stealing from the rest of the party, and I brought it up when the rogued tried to steal two huge emeralds I'd found after I'd said I wanted a bigger cut of the payout since I'd passed the slight of hand check to take them (after I'd passed the roll, the person playing the rogue immediately said we should divide them equally amongst the party, which is why I pushed back). The DM let the rogue make a slight of hand roll to steal, and I tried to set a hard boundary with this (I got upset and said I was not okay with the other player just taking them), but our DM kept trying to force me into the interaction. After this, our barbarian player (OOC) said the party should feed my character to the dragon that was pursuing us. I said my character would leave if they tried to do that, and our DM told me I'd have to make a new character and start at level 1 (party was level 4) if I did that. A few sessions later, I asked the DM outside of gameplay if we could discuss boundaries and etiquette as a group, and he didn't give me an answer and we didn't do it. The next time it happened–the following session–I asked for it to stop, the DM allowed it, I tried to stop it via roleplay, and I'm pretty sure our rogue then cheated on their roll to pass the check of my character stealing back the stolen loot (I had passed a perception check to notice the rogue was stealing and then passed a persuasion check to persuade them to give it back, but they didn't respect the persuasion check and kept the loot anyway). I ended up getting mad and snapping at the player–I told them that I found that behavior really annoying. The DM told me they could play however they want, and now the whole party is mad at me for snapping at the other player. I feel so incredibly frustrated, because I tried to address this outside of the game with the DM, I asked for a conversation, I was ignored, and now I'm the ******* for getting mad. It has caused a lot of tension in the group, and the DM finally decided to implement etiquette rules, and no stealing from party members is on the list.
From what I've read in other forums, no stealing from the party is a pretty common rule. Am I being unreasonable to be so upset about this if the rest of the party is okay with the behavior? At this point, I'm more upset about my requests for discussion being ignored for so long (several months) than I am about the rogue actually stealing shit.
Conclusion: Thank you to everyone who responded. I ended up leaving the party. Things ended up escalating outside of the campaign (due to this incident) and becoming unnecessarily personal. Ain’t nobody got time for that. Hoping to join a new group where there’s an option to discuss things as a team when someone is uncomfortable or dislikes the way things are going! Happy rolling, everyone.
You tried to resolve it OOC (not that I think it could have been if everyone else is trampling on/disregarding your feelings this way) and it didn't work. Leave that group immediately; no gaming is better than bad gaming.
Yeah, lotta red flags here. Best to bail.
Run, run and don't look back.
Groups that don't respect boundaries are bs. Also, starting over at level 1 for having a character leave? Feel like that's just petty and punishing the player.
Your party and your DM both did a number of things wrong - I will not go so far as to say the theft itself was wrong (plenty of groups can get away with and enjoy that kind of in character drama without it becoming a table level problem), but their retaliation and continued behavior against you does strike me as a problem.
But that does not mean you are an innocent party in all this - and I think it is important to recognize our own contributions to problems before quitting a campaign.
There is another way to read your post - and, while I am not saying I ascribe to this reading, I expect it is how your other party members viewed the situation. “A selfish player tries to take a disproportionate amount of the loot. The rogue tries to fix that problem in-game at a character level. The first player throws a fit and elevates the problem to a table level. The other players get annoyed and frustrated with that player. That player keeps harping on the issue at a table level, even after the session is well over and done with.”
You see, to many players, one person hoarding loot is seen as a red flag, akin to party theft. Like theft, I do not think your actions are bad on their face, but I have been around these forums long enough to know “party should share everything equally” is a pervasive belief. Additionally, raising a character-level problem to a table level problem is often viewed as problematic - there are times it is necessary, but it always is going to be seen as an third wall breaking nuclear option.
Once again, I am not saying any of this to accuse you of impropriety - merely to help you understand how the others at your table might have perceived (perhaps incorrectly) your behavior, and how this perception (even if wrong) might have shaped their own.
So, what does that mean for you moving forward? Well, it means the problems likely stem from misunderstandings - and misunderstandings can usually be sorted out with a candid conversation. Since they do not seem willing to engage in conversation, you have three ways of moving forward.
First, just keep playing. Armed with the knowledge of why they might have acted as they did, you could forgive them for the misunderstanding, move past it yourself, and get on with the game. You now also have a better knowledge of their triggers and can try to avoid those - and hope they will avoid yours.
Second, you could try talking with them again. But, this time, lead with an apology for your own contributions. Even if they did not listen the first time, folks are much more likely to listen and admit their own flawed behavior if the other person admits it first.
Third, you can walk away from the game and not return, as others have suggested.
The choice is yours and yours alone. Just try to make that choice with open eyes and after some consideration of their behavior - and of your own.
I feel for you.
But it looks like you were not the only one learning during your play.
It looks like the DM learned also.
He might have started out thinking it would be fun to have the party free play and let them steal from each other with no limits. But I think he too has found out it causes trouble when unchecked.
In our groups we do allow a LITTLE gathering of a FEW extra coins from a found hoard. But non of our characters goes so far as to take the most valuable of anything and leaves those things that would be best in other specialists hands.
A little theft and pick-pocketing is what the rogue is for. If they are caught picking the pockets of party members then its just a training exercise. They give anything picked back and the other party members know it will happen and everything will get back to them. In fact they might even find a few extra coin if the party passes through a town.
Fighters have to practice in down time. And so do rogues. Its best to come to an agreement with at lest one or two other party members so the rogue has some practice targets.
I didn't even finish reading. Run, run while you can. It is a sinking trash hauler on fire. Jump off!
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Is this one of your first times playing an RPG, let alone D&D?This is NOT how the game is played, at least among adults.
As others have said, run, don't walk, away from this mess. Not that I think you are completely innocent. But the entire group sounds like a disaster.
It sounds to me the type of game you want and the type of game the other players want is very different.
There is no solution beyond finding a new group.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Don't let one's fun ruin the fun of others.. There's character behaviors that don't bother group if kept in check and don't get out of control to the detriment of the party and everyone else's fun. But anytime it does like stealing or PVP, it has to be addressed by DM and players before it affect gameplay fun or dissolve the group.
Everything above is pretty good advise. Leaving is probably the best answer.
However, if you do not want to leave your party for reasons consider that the thief is now in possession of valuables that were stolen. Perhaps there are those that might want those items back? For themselves? Maybe just sell out your party to the local thieves guild for fun and profit? Would it be wrong to sell them all into slavery at this point?
What I'm saying is maybe find a way to worry less and learn to love the bomb.
It sounds like a bad group and petty DM. It doesn't like a group for you. But i get it, it can be hard to leave a group. Plus they aren't always easy to find
I think this is the most helpful comment I've read thus far. I think you're spot on how how they perceived it. I'm frustrated because I did attempt to address my concern with the DM outside of gameplay (we weren't playing DND, we were just hanging out when I brought it up), and I asked the DM to initiate a group conversation (not a flat-out ban, although I would prefer not stealing from other character's inventories). He just... didn't do anything.
I did apologize to the player I snapped at yesterday, but they didn't say anything back about recognizing that I kept expressing I was not okay with what was happening and they kept choosing to do it anyway. I'm really not feeling good about the whole thing, and I am contemplating leaving the group.
The "if your character leaves, your new character will have to start off at level one" is strange and does seem incredibly petty (assuming there aren't other significant details you have left out). Stranger to me though is that this affects the DM just as much as you. Creating a balanced encounter with multiple level 4 characters and a single level 1 character is definitely more of a challenge for your DM. Either it's too easy and the level 4s mop the floor, or it's balanced for them and your level 1 has to hide in the back in the hopes of not meeting his/her/their (likely immediate) end.
Well, it's strange to people used to 5e. It was the standard in 1e, though the way experience points worked in AD&D tended to make things even out fairly quickly if you somehow managed to survive.
Wanting more loot because you made a good roll is a problem starter.
What if the fighter crited and killed a boss who was tough? Or, the wizards total body count was x5 more than everyone else's? Do they get more loot?
This style of play brings me back to 1979 AD&D where players would *at times* attack each other but nowadays more consideration is given to the group as a whole.
Hope things work out for you and the group. You can't change them but you can change your actions and try to influence how others react.
It's funny because the rogues I keep playing with don't even pick pockets (haven't seen one do it yet), yet my wizard does a lot of rogue like stuff. But, that said, I would not play in a campaign where the rogue was pickpocketing me, but it's really the DMs fault for allowing it.
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I want to highlight this, because while I agree it's a common perception, I think it's one we should push back on for the good of the default play environment. I rarely see a table that cleanly separates "character problems" from "table problems", but I often see tables that _think_ they have that separation. The fact of the matter is, smooth-running tables don't have unplanned "character problems".
Regarding the specific case, the central issue is a difference in assumptions about the way loot should be distributed. This is a table problem. We shouldn't blame the OP for "escalating" the issue, though I agree they're equally at fault in starting it. If a player wants to have a good faith conversation about table boundaries, that conversation should be had. Deflecting the issue by saying it's a character-level problem is unproductive.
Certainly, your situation seems challenging, and it’s understandable that you feel uncomfortable. In D&D, as in any group activity, it’s important for all players to feel comfortable and enjoy the game.
Remind the players and the DM of your concerns repeatedly. Emphasize how it’s affecting the enjoyment of the game and express your feelings to the group again clearly. Request a group discussion about party dynamics and game etiquette. It’s important that all players are on the same page and respect each other’s boundaries. Suggest practical solutions such as implementing a rule that allows player vs. player actions, including theft, only with the player’s consent, or creating in-game consequences for such actions that are consistent with the story. Consider whether the group’s play style is compatible with yours. The fundamental approaches to the game may differ from yours, and you may need to evaluate whether this group is right for you, and I think you should leave the group. Have another private conversation with the DM to express your concerns. The DM plays a crucial role in ensuring the game is fun and fair for everyone. Decide on Your Participation: If the situation doesn’t improve and you still feel excluded, you may need to reconsider your participation in the campaign. No game is worth sacrificing your mental health.
Remember, D&D is about collaborative storytelling and having fun. If any aspect of the game is consistently causing distress, it’s important to address it. My advice for resolving this issue is to gather the entire party and DM, either in-game or out-of-game, and discuss it.
This seems a rather strange response as I think it's safe to assume we are responding to a question related to 5e. I too remember 1e where having to add characters at level 1 to a mixed level party was not at all uncommon due to much higher character death rates, but that seems sort of irrelevant here.