Honest opinion: I don't like the new Ranger. It was said it is basically a new class and most of the "new" things are Tasha's optional rules added into base class. The Ranger now feels underwhelming like the 2014 Monk. If Hunters Mark shall be such an integral part of the class, why not combine Hunters Mark and Favourite Foe and make it a Class Feature instead, maybe even make it a semi Sneak Attack which scales in damage at certain levels.
You’re not alone. I’m looking forward to making my Ranger when we get the new PHB.
You're not alone, unfortunately the memes have taken hold and defending the ranger is going to be nearly as hard as it was in 2014 (for much less reason.)
I look forward to 10 more years of "The Ranger is good actually!" hot takes. Though at least they won't all revolve around Conjure Animals this time 😛
The Weapon Master qualities will be great if players remember to use them or not outright banned by GM.
I can't imagine many people forgetting Nick or Vex so just use those. They're just passive improvements to the Ranger, rather than things you have to declare or apply to enemies.
For the Blindsight Feature, I've never been a campaign long enough to get to level 17, the highest I've been in only went to 14/15. I do enjoy The weapon mastery editions, I've just met DM's that would ban them and some people myself included are forgetful. As for Silence, that works I suppose but with so many class features using it why wouldn't you? Unrelated note i haven't played and ranged based ranger since the DnD Next Doomvault Playtest.
For the Blindsight Feature, I've never been a campaign long enough to get to level 17, the highest I've been in only went to 14/15.
And that's fine, they can still get the Blind Fighting style until then. You could even use the Tasha's rule to swap it out once Feral Senses kicks in.
As for Silence, that works I suppose but with so many class features using it why wouldn't you?
Why wouldn't I what? Try to Silence a HM? The Ranger only has to cast it once outside of the radius, and then they can maintain and even move it for the rest of the combat without needing the verbal component again. Seems like a waste of a 2nd-level spell.
I see your point, though for me at least I dont see the need of casting HM after 5th level when I get access to more interesting spells.
I feel by 5th level enough encounters should still happen per long rest that those 2 second level spells should not be enough to get through the whole day so falling back on HM should still be relevant.
I do enjoy The weapon mastery editions, I've just met DM's that would ban them and some people myself included are forgetful.
You've met DMs that plan to ban a rule that isn't even out yet? 🤨 Seems a bit timid to me but okay...
i can kinda understand banning it until the new monster manual is out bc its a pretty big power increase for players. tho its also a great time to test them out and get the table use to them
And how often was Aragorn in full plate armor? The argument I was seeing in this thread is that STRangers were nerfed because a feature didn’t allow heavy armor. Isn’t that feature called Roving? Or something like that? I don’t have a chance to look right now. So it fits narratively that a feature named such doesn’t fit a heavily armor clad character. That’s what I was referring to.
You can still play your longsword wielding Ranger just like you could with 2014 Ranger who also didn’t have heavy armor proficiency. Nothing is stopping you. Just one feature may suffer for it.
Roving not working with heavy armor is more the nail in the coffin than the sole issue. Since the new ranger relies more on WIS for some of its features and subclasses it's a lot harder to justify the Strength allocation, and since Ranger loses a class feature from Heavy Armor they can't fix the MADness with that anymore either. Then Hunter's Mark really wants you to be relying on multiple smaller hits on top of that.
STRanger used to be slightly suboptimal because DEX is just better than STR. Now you'll need to make some pretty big sacrifices in your combat power to make STRanger work just to come out with inferior damage, survivability, magic, and skill use.
I don't mind playing a suboptimal build for style points, but after a certain point, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Hopefully, there will be a spell or two in the expanded spell list that really works well with a STRanger build, and that will salvage the playstyle. Maybe Spike Growth with a warhammer? We'll see.
I’m not a huge fan of what they’ve shown so far of Hunter’s Mark:The Class. But. I think we all need to realize we haven’t seen it yet. We (and I include myself here) are making lots of assumptions based on how the spell used to work. There are countless little changes they could make to the spell, the various powers, and general rules that are going to have to all come together and can easily make this way better (or, possibly, not as good) than we think right now. There are almost certainly other things they have not revealed — indeed some of the YouTubers under nda’s have been hinting as much.
Seems like making broad sweeping judgements about how this is going to play should maybe take a step back until people actually play. And again, I include myself here. Even though up above, I said I don’t like it, I also need to remind myself to give things a fair shake before I come to a conclusion.
You've gotta point, I need to wait for the spell reveals and streamer embargo to end, though even if it does end up being a better spell, I'm not a fan of so many class features being tied to one spell.
I like this class if Paladins can focus mainly on smites, Rogues on sneak/cunning attacks, Barbarians on rage, Druids wild shape, Warlocks invocations, what is wrong with Rangers being hunter's mark oriented?
Its almost funny how this "new" class regardless of its level, is effectively stopped dead with a Silence Spell.
Nah, my shortswords are really quiet. I have very good initiative and I often go through a whole combat on the spell I cast on my first bonus action. I may have your head before you even get to cast that spell. :-)
Oh, for sure! There's a couple of things that I'm not pleased with, but this update fixes a lot of the issues seen in the 2014 version. Some people even mentioned finally being interested in playing Ranger and it makes me glad to see this update causing people to finally show some interest!
There's a bit of context that's being largely glossed over where people are only seeing the upscale of 1d6 to 1d10 as a singular increase.
It is, it's an average of +2 damage per hit (not counting critical hit math).
Hunter's Mark's damage boost is no longer unspecified weapon damage. It's now Force damage.
Right, so e.g. if you're using a longbow it now deals Force rather than Piercing, and Hunter's Mark + Net no longer causes a paradox.
If Hunter's Mark still triggers whenever you hit the marked target , which by that point you have advantage on (Unless cancelled by disadvantage), you're likely hitting between two and six times, subclass and features permitting.
Sure. 6 isn't going to happen outside of out-of-band good subclasses, but yes, you'll be making multiple attacks with advantage. Every attack that hits will deal about +2 damage once you scale from d6 to d10.
If you're a scimitar-wielding Beastmaster, depending on whether the Nick weapon feature can be triggered twice in a turn, you're making three or four attacks as part of your standard action. That's 4d10 instead of 4d6.
We absolutely know that Nick won't "stack". If you're dual wielding scimitars you still get only 1 additional attack like if you hadn't mastered the weapon, it just doesn't consume your BA.
4d10 - 4d6 = 8, since the difference is 2 damage per die. Other abilities on other classes scale radically better.
Your beast also contributes, potentially having advantage on it's attacks and being eligible for the extra damage of Hunter's Mark. Depending on how Beastmaster companions scale, that could easily be another two attacks. So we're already looking at 5d10-6d10 FORCE damage per round from an effect that is unable to be disrupted, gives you advantage and that's before any additional benefits like haste.
We know how they scale - like in Tasha's but slightly better. Also, I think you skipped a sentence from the text we got.
Emphasis mine: "Lastly, Bestial Fury shares some of the benefits of Hunter’s Mark with your Primal Companion once per turn."
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Honest opinion: I don't like the new Ranger. It was said it is basically a new class and most of the "new" things are Tasha's optional rules added into base class. The Ranger now feels underwhelming like the 2014 Monk. If Hunters Mark shall be such an integral part of the class, why not combine Hunters Mark and Favourite Foe and make it a Class Feature instead, maybe even make it a semi Sneak Attack which scales in damage at certain levels.
Same here. I'm already starting to form a character in my mind. Once 2024 releases, I hope someone will do me a solid and run a one-shot.
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Its almost funny how this "new" class regardless of its level, is effectively stopped dead with a Silence Spell.
You're not alone, unfortunately the memes have taken hold and defending the ranger is going to be nearly as hard as it was in 2014 (for much less reason.)
I look forward to 10 more years of "The Ranger is good actually!" hot takes. Though at least they won't all revolve around Conjure Animals this time 😛
Feral Senses has 3x the range of the fighting style. That matters, especially if you're making ranged attacks.
I can't imagine many people forgetting Nick or Vex so just use those. They're just passive improvements to the Ranger, rather than things you have to declare or apply to enemies.
1) HM has 90ft range, walk out of the Silence and cast it.
2) HM lasts an hour, you don't have to cast it during the fight either.
For the Blindsight Feature, I've never been a campaign long enough to get to level 17, the highest I've been in only went to 14/15. I do enjoy The weapon mastery editions, I've just met DM's that would ban them and some people myself included are forgetful. As for Silence, that works I suppose but with so many class features using it why wouldn't you? Unrelated note i haven't played and ranged based ranger since the DnD Next Doomvault Playtest.
And that's fine, they can still get the Blind Fighting style until then. You could even use the Tasha's rule to swap it out once Feral Senses kicks in.
You've met DMs that plan to ban a rule that isn't even out yet? 🤨
Seems a bit timid to me but okay...
Why wouldn't I what? Try to Silence a HM? The Ranger only has to cast it once outside of the radius, and then they can maintain and even move it for the rest of the combat without needing the verbal component again. Seems like a waste of a 2nd-level spell.
I see your point, though for me at least I dont see the need of casting HM after 5th level when I get access to more interesting spells.
I feel by 5th level enough encounters should still happen per long rest that those 2 second level spells should not be enough to get through the whole day so falling back on HM should still be relevant.
i can kinda understand banning it until the new monster manual is out bc its a pretty big power increase for players. tho its also a great time to test them out and get the table use to them
Roving not working with heavy armor is more the nail in the coffin than the sole issue. Since the new ranger relies more on WIS for some of its features and subclasses it's a lot harder to justify the Strength allocation, and since Ranger loses a class feature from Heavy Armor they can't fix the MADness with that anymore either. Then Hunter's Mark really wants you to be relying on multiple smaller hits on top of that.
STRanger used to be slightly suboptimal because DEX is just better than STR. Now you'll need to make some pretty big sacrifices in your combat power to make STRanger work just to come out with inferior damage, survivability, magic, and skill use.
I don't mind playing a suboptimal build for style points, but after a certain point, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Hopefully, there will be a spell or two in the expanded spell list that really works well with a STRanger build, and that will salvage the playstyle. Maybe Spike Growth with a warhammer? We'll see.
Not every roll on the encounter tables results in combat, sometimes things like Speak with Animal or longstrider or more helpful.
I’m not a huge fan of what they’ve shown so far of Hunter’s Mark:The Class. But. I think we all need to realize we haven’t seen it yet. We (and I include myself here) are making lots of assumptions based on how the spell used to work. There are countless little changes they could make to the spell, the various powers, and general rules that are going to have to all come together and can easily make this way better (or, possibly, not as good) than we think right now. There are almost certainly other things they have not revealed — indeed some of the YouTubers under nda’s have been hinting as much.
Seems like making broad sweeping judgements about how this is going to play should maybe take a step back until people actually play. And again, I include myself here. Even though up above, I said I don’t like it, I also need to remind myself to give things a fair shake before I come to a conclusion.
You've gotta point, I need to wait for the spell reveals and streamer embargo to end, though even if it does end up being a better spell, I'm not a fan of so many class features being tied to one spell.
I like this class if Paladins can focus mainly on smites, Rogues on sneak/cunning attacks, Barbarians on rage, Druids wild shape, Warlocks invocations, what is wrong with Rangers being hunter's mark oriented?
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What else can we do with hunters mark other than killing things more efficiently? The rogues, barbs and druids get other stuff with their specials?
Nah, my shortswords are really quiet. I have very good initiative and I often go through a whole combat on the spell I cast on my first bonus action. I may have your head before you even get to cast that spell. :-)
Silence doesn't move anymore, the spell is defeated by walking.
Oh, for sure! There's a couple of things that I'm not pleased with, but this update fixes a lot of the issues seen in the 2014 version. Some people even mentioned finally being interested in playing Ranger and it makes me glad to see this update causing people to finally show some interest!
Not the point of your post, I know, but what do you mean Silence moves? 😭
It's been six years and I had no idea
It is, it's an average of +2 damage per hit (not counting critical hit math).
Right, so e.g. if you're using a longbow it now deals Force rather than Piercing, and Hunter's Mark + Net no longer causes a paradox.
Sure. 6 isn't going to happen outside of out-of-band good subclasses, but yes, you'll be making multiple attacks with advantage. Every attack that hits will deal about +2 damage once you scale from d6 to d10.
We absolutely know that Nick won't "stack". If you're dual wielding scimitars you still get only 1 additional attack like if you hadn't mastered the weapon, it just doesn't consume your BA.
4d10 - 4d6 = 8, since the difference is 2 damage per die. Other abilities on other classes scale radically better.
We know how they scale - like in Tasha's but slightly better. Also, I think you skipped a sentence from the text we got.
Emphasis mine: "Lastly, Bestial Fury shares some of the benefits of Hunter’s Mark with your Primal Companion once per turn."