Cleric: Oh, mighty powers. They heal themselves and each other; likewise, can they buff. I beseech you then for just one blessing...

Mighty Powers: Owing to your decades long and faithful service, do we hear and grant your plea.

ROAR, CRACKLE, BOOM! <pointless legacy class deleted>

Cleric: (fading to the void) ....Thank you.

Might Powers: sniff, ,sniff, sob....Go in peace my faithful one...

...

...

... What? 😕

I haven't the slightest, vaguest, hint of an idea of what you're trying to say.

you know you can still access legacy content, right?

I currently have a 2024 Cleric with the Tempest Domain in my campaign. Some domains may have some redundancy, though.

The Cleric class no longer has a real game space left. Healing is so rampant even for non-magical classes as is buffing both one's self and others. Granting each other advantage on saves, re-rolling failed saves, forcing attackers to re-roll successful attacks, and a host of similar changes to the game has all but destroyed the need for a dedicated healer / buffer and that is really the only point of a cleric as a class.

Best supplemental healer (as that is all that is needed in the game now) Bard

Best Buffer (Bard)

Best Caster (Bard)

Best group face-man (Bard)

Best at skill usage (Bard)

Looking forward 10yrs to DnD 6.0 (best frontline meatshield: Bard) [Also: game name changed to Bards & Bards]

Yes. I'm pointing out that the cleric should just be removed from the game as it's time has passed and that I feel a loss over the class I have favored for decades now having no real reason to be included in the game now and likely, moving forward.

I am happy that you are happy playing a cleric. I wish you the best on your adventures moving forward!

Really....Light Domain....it's not there....

Quote from Shwhathadra >>

Yes. I'm pointing out that the cleric should just be removed from the game as it's time has passed and that I feel a loss over the class I have favored for decades now having no real reason to be included in the game now and likely, moving forward.

 Sure thing.

*continues playing Cleric*

Clerics still have a fantastic set of options.  Channel Divinities remain strong - and got more flexible in their use, further increasing their utility. Divine intervention became more generally useful and less dependent on your DM.  Many of their spells got a buff. Some of their powerful optional features became standard.

Sure, they lost the ability to stack Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon - but SW always should have been a concentration spell, and it was dumb you could ever stack those two. 

Overall, Clerics remain a great class with their own niche.  The idea they no longer have a place in the game is completely laughable. Much like PsyrenXY above, I’ll be happy to continue playing mine.

I'm not saying there isn't some overlap, but ... bards have been crap since forever. Literally. Until 5e, there hasn't been a bard class in the game that wasn't systemically weak. Deliberately so. Now, arguably, bards are the strongest class in terms of versatility (I'm not saying it is, just that the argument could be made).

Meanwhile, a specialised cleric is still better at basically everything it specialises in than a bard doing the same. Except, perhaps, support. But bard is and has ever been the dedicated support class - while cleric has been a dedicated healer, buffer, melee monster, and many other things. The only reason to see cleric as the support class is that previously, bard were bad at it, despite it really being their only role.

So .. cheer up, and be happy for the bards, who finally have their moment in the sun. It won't last, I promise. (maybe it will)

If we're getting hyperbolic here there's a lot of classes we could get rid of for not being unique enough before getting to the cleric. Why isn't the Ranger a Fighter subclass with survival and nature skills? Why isn't the Monk an unarmed Barbarian subclass depending on discipline rather than anger? Why isn't the Sorcerer a Wizard subclass? Clerics have plenty to them besides just healing and can be totally invaluable in a campaign with a lot of undead

Quote from Shwhathadra >>

Yes. I'm pointing out that the cleric should just be removed from the game as it's time has passed and that I feel a loss over the class I have favored for decades now having no real reason to be included in the game now and likely, moving forward.

 I think you are overreacting. Cleric got some good changes in the new rules. And I’m glad that there are more options for healing and buffs, not like there weren’t since 2014. So players can play what they want instead of someone having to play a cleric because they need a healer. Clerics fulfill a certain fantasy that other classes, despite their features, can’t exactly fill. Every class has its niche. 

If I wanted to play an MMO, I would do that instead.

Quote from CunningSmile >>

If we're getting hyperbolic here there's a lot of classes we could get rid of for not being unique enough before getting to the cleric. Why isn't the Ranger a Fighter subclass with survival and nature skills? Why isn't the Monk an unarmed Barbarian subclass depending on discipline rather than anger? Why isn't the Sorcerer a Wizard subclass? Clerics have plenty to them besides just healing and can be totally invaluable in a campaign with a lot of undead

I have no idea what you are talking about. I did not say nor imply that clerics are not unique. Although, since YOU brought it up. I do agree that Rangers should be a fighter subclass and the Sorcerer a wizard subclass. As to you going all up into your own head about Monks and Barbarians, I am just going to quietly back away....

Quote from ThriKreenWarrior >>

Quote from Shwhathadra>>

Yes. I'm pointing out that the cleric should just be removed from the game as it's time has passed and that I feel a loss over the class I have favored for decades now having no real reason to be included in the game now and likely, moving forward.

 I think you are overreacting. Cleric got some good changes in the new rules. And I’m glad that there are more options for healing and buffs, not like there weren’t since 2014. So players can play what they want instead of someone having to play a cleric because they need a healer. Clerics fulfill a certain fantasy that other classes, despite their features, can’t exactly fill. Every class has its niche. 

I agree that having to take a cleric (and Wizard) as it was in the older versions was not a good situation for the game. The wizard; though not as essential as it once was, has a strong case for it's continued existence (when is nuking an entire room not going to be desirable). The issue of moving away from healing being required is precisely whey they the cleric has lost its relevance in the game, who needs healing when they are still completely healthy? who needs a curse removed when someone in the group forced the attacker to miss their curse instilling attack?

The cleric was defined in a crucible of healing / restoration need and with those needs have seriously been reduced; as you admit. Clerics are not longer a relevant class, the game should dump them and move on.

If I wanted to play an MMO, I would do that instead.

Clerics that don't heal at all can still provide protection, buff allies, debuff enemies and deal ****tons of damage. Life Cleric 2024 still remains best at healing. Non-Life Clerics are still equal to Druid for healing and still better than a Bard's.

Your posts have no relation to reality and confuse the feck outta me.

Quote from Shwhathadra >>

Quote from CunningSmile >>

If we're getting hyperbolic here there's a lot of classes we could get rid of for not being unique enough before getting to the cleric. Why isn't the Ranger a Fighter subclass with survival and nature skills? Why isn't the Monk an unarmed Barbarian subclass depending on discipline rather than anger? Why isn't the Sorcerer a Wizard subclass? Clerics have plenty to them besides just healing and can be totally invaluable in a campaign with a lot of undead

I have no idea what you are talking about. I did not say nor imply that clerics are not unique. Although, since YOU brought it up. I do agree that Rangers should be a fighter subclass and the Sorcerer a wizard subclass. As to you going all up into your own head about Monks and Barbarians, I am just going to quietly back away....

 You said, and I quote, "Cleric class no longer has a real game space left. Healing is so rampant even for non-magical classes as is buffing both one's self and others" so what does "no longer have a real game space" mean if not complaining they're no longer unique? You are literally arguing that everything they do someone else does better which surely is just a long winded (and frankly wrong) way of saying they've lost their unique identity.

Quote from Shwhathadra >>

Best supplemental healer (as that is all that is needed in the game now) Bard

Best Buffer (Bard)

Best Caster (Bard)

Best group face-man (Bard)

Best at skill usage (Bard)

I'd like to see a Bard roll up to a fight in heavy armor and cast Spirit Guardians or Fireball before 10th level.

Not knocking Bards but what even is this comparison. They're totally different.