When did the order of the tabs in the character builder change?
Why is species after class and background? It is like a character does not know what they were born as until they have been formally trained in their class and then lived a few years doing things not actually directly related to their class, not adventuring at all. Then one day they look in a mirror and realize what species they are.
IMO, the new order makes sense for how people actually build their characters. Most of the time, you come in thinking "I want to play a Wizard this time", and the other choices come after. Background is second because it's where the stat bumps are.
It's also not exactly a big deal to swap back and forth, and there's really no order where you don't have to, and the PHB acknowledges that.
IMO, the new order makes sense for how people actually build their characters. Most of the time, you come in thinking "I want to play a Wizard this time", and the other choices come after. Background is second because it's where the stat bumps are.
It's also not exactly a big deal to swap back and forth, and there's really no order where you don't have to, and the PHB acknowledges that.
But the actual raw stats, no matter how they are derived, are fourth. So you are bumping before you even know the raw rolls you are working with. Also been playing long enough to say more than a few times "Playing this race sounds interesting. Now.... what class would be most interesting with it?"
IMO, the new order makes sense for how people actually build their characters. Most of the time, you come in thinking "I want to play a Wizard this time", and the other choices come after. Background is second because it's where the stat bumps are.
It's also not exactly a big deal to swap back and forth, and there's really no order where you don't have to, and the PHB acknowledges that.
But the actual raw stats, no matter how they are derived, are fourth. So you are bumping before you even know the raw rolls you are working with. Also been playing long enough to say more than a few times "Playing this race sounds interesting. Now.... what class would be most interesting with it?"
Lucky for you, you can just switch around which tab you use and when you use it. But for new people, following the book, it read a few pages, then turn to the next section, and dndbeyond matches what’s going on in the book.
IMO, the new order makes sense for how people actually build their characters. Most of the time, you come in thinking "I want to play a Wizard this time", and the other choices come after. Background is second because it's where the stat bumps are.
It's also not exactly a big deal to swap back and forth, and there's really no order where you don't have to, and the PHB acknowledges that.
But the actual raw stats, no matter how they are derived, are fourth. So you are bumping before you even know the raw rolls you are working with. Also been playing long enough to say more than a few times "Playing this race sounds interesting. Now.... what class would be most interesting with it?"
Lucky for you, you can just switch around which tab you use and when you use it. But for new people, following the book, it read a few pages, then turn to the next section, and dndbeyond matches what’s going on in the book.
Well first of all that is suggesting that the order the book presents things is de facto perfect. More significantly, though, it assumes that the majority making characters actually read the books.
It is annoying, but we just tell people to start on the Ability Score tab, then Species, Background, class, etc. It should have been done in the way the character comes into being (born first, then have a background before deciding to become an adventurer).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
It is annoying, but we just tell people to start on the Ability Score tab, then Species, Background, class, etc. It should have been done in the way the character comes into being (born first, then have a background before deciding to become an adventurer).
But that's not how a character typically comes into being. Class is the most important decision, so it comes first. You then can make your other decisions in the context of that first decision, now that you have some idea what effect they will have on your character. Choosing stats before you know which ones you need is backwards, unless you're doing old-school roll-in-order, but that's not how the game expects you to do your stats.
If you're coming at a particular character from a different conceptual approach, then yes, you may have to jump around, but class-first is an entirely sensible order, especially for new players.
IMO, the new order makes sense for how people actually build their characters. Most of the time, you come in thinking "I want to play a Wizard this time", and the other choices come after. Background is second because it's where the stat bumps are.
It's also not exactly a big deal to swap back and forth, and there's really no order where you don't have to, and the PHB acknowledges that.
But the actual raw stats, no matter how they are derived, are fourth. So you are bumping before you even know the raw rolls you are working with. Also been playing long enough to say more than a few times "Playing this race sounds interesting. Now.... what class would be most interesting with it?"
Lucky for you, you can just switch around which tab you use and when you use it. But for new people, following the book, it read a few pages, then turn to the next section, and dndbeyond matches what’s going on in the book.
Well first of all that is suggesting that the order the book presents things is de facto perfect. More significantly, though, it assumes that the majority making characters actually read the books.
It is suggesting no such thing. It is saying, I repeat, the order in the builder mirrors the one in the book. Which is simply logical sense. People can open the book and follow along in the builder. And it’s pretty safe to say new players will be reading the book, and since that’s who they are working to help, it makes sense. And even if they’re not, the builder has to be in some order, following the book makes a lot of sense. But, hey, maybe next time they’ll cater to your personal preferences.
It’s easy enough to move back and forth between the tabs so the order is really up to the person creating. My general pattern is: species, background, abilities, class. Basically growing the character from the ground up.
It is annoying, but we just tell people to start on the Ability Score tab, then Species, Background, class, etc. It should have been done in the way the character comes into being (born first, then have a background before deciding to become an adventurer).
But that's not how a character typically comes into being. Class is the most important decision, so it comes first. You then can make your other decisions in the context of that first decision, now that you have some idea what effect they will have on your character. Choosing stats before you know which ones you need is backwards, unless you're doing old-school roll-in-order, but that's not how the game expects you to do your stats.
If you're coming at a particular character from a different conceptual approach, then yes, you may have to jump around, but class-first is an entirely sensible order, especially for new players.
No offense, but a character usually comes into being because something caused that character to pursue an adventuring career. A character’s class or adventuring job is a collection of the experiences that have occurred since their birth, and it’s those experiences that can help shape the character’s development and decision to become a certain class of adventurer.
Starting with a foundation of ability values that can be later adjusted to better reflect your character has always been how character creation worked since the early days of the game.
Of course none of this really matters, a person can start creating a character however they want, and no one starting point is better than the other.
But the new method of character creation is in my opinion backwards. ( something I discovered that inexperienced players lean on. thinking that way is the most useful way to learn the basics, but quickly becomes a bit of a problem as multiple people decide to play the same class stereotype as everyone else, and no real individuality is created to make that character unique or personal.)
And yes picking the class first is an optimization thing powergamers almost instinctively do, I personally had to learn to break that habit to become a better player and DM.
The game of D&D isn’t about how much damage you can do to something, though it is fun to discover just how much you can dish and what might be able to possibly take it, but more about the risk taken to grow and develop that ability to wipe a small planet out. Or save it, to each their own.
It is annoying, but we just tell people to start on the Ability Score tab, then Species, Background, class, etc. It should have been done in the way the character comes into being (born first, then have a background before deciding to become an adventurer).
But that's not how a character typically comes into being. Class is the most important decision, so it comes first. You then can make your other decisions in the context of that first decision, now that you have some idea what effect they will have on your character. Choosing stats before you know which ones you need is backwards, unless you're doing old-school roll-in-order, but that's not how the game expects you to do your stats.
If you're coming at a particular character from a different conceptual approach, then yes, you may have to jump around, but class-first is an entirely sensible order, especially for new players.
No offense, but a character usually comes into being because something caused that character to pursue an adventuring career. A character’s class or adventuring job is a collection of the experiences that have occurred since their birth, and it’s those experiences that can help shape the character’s development and decision to become a certain class of adventurer.
Starting with a foundation of ability values that can be later adjusted to better reflect your character has always been how character creation worked since the early days of the game.
Of course none of this really matters, a person can start creating a character however they want, and no one starting point is better than the other.
But the new method of character creation is in my opinion backwards. ( something I discovered that inexperienced players lean on. thinking that way is the most useful way to learn the basics, but quickly becomes a bit of a problem as multiple people decide to play the same class stereotype as everyone else, and no real individuality is created to make that character unique or personal.)
And yes picking the class first is an optimization thing powergamers almost instinctively do, I personally had to learn to break that habit to become a better player and DM.
The game of D&D isn’t about how much damage you can do to something, though it is fun to discover just how much you can dish and what might be able to possibly take it, but more about the risk taken to grow and develop that ability to wipe a small planet out. Or save it, to each their own.
I don't think this is actually true based on polling from Wizards. In fact, I think they even mentioned this progression of character creation isbecause that's how the majority of players actually created their character concepts: class first, then background options, then stats. We just had a session 0 a few weeks ago with three brand new players, and the first question we asked them when it came to character creation was "what's your fantasy?" You know what all of them answered first with? A class idea (or something akin to a class, since they didn't even know what classes existed when the question was asked). Not a single one answered with a species or background or ability scores.
After that, it was easy enough to let them know what ability scores they would want to increase with the backgrounds. Then we... rolled for stats (lol). Turned out fine, but had I been DMing, I don't think I would have done that part ;).
There was a distinction brought up in another thread about character generation vs character creation. People who like to roll down the line, make meaningful choices on background and species, and then choose a class based on those things are likely generating a character. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd argue that the majority of players think of class as concept first, then fill out the rest of the details (and that's, again, borne out by the decision to organize character creation this way). They create a character they want to play.
I have not been able to play in a 2024 game yet, but I did apply to a 2024 PBP here a couple weeks ago. I came in wanting to try either a Druid or Ranger because they are classes I never had interest in with the 2014 rules and wanted to give it a try. So, I came to the application with an idea of the class I wanted to play first.
When looking at the backgrounds, I see this as a natural second step for new players and veterans, if I am being honest. New players are going to want to identify who their PCs were before becoming adventurers, and veterans (or optimizers) will probably have a feat or ability score bonus in mind immediately after choosing their class. I personally have never met a Wizard player who wanted to put their +2 in anything other than Intelligence, no matter how great or poorly their rolls go and if such a person exists, they probably made that decision when deciding their class too.
For almost all the tables I have played at, with the exception of one game I am currently playing in, you were allowed to roll stats, and if the numbers were not satisfying, you would be able to instead choose from Standard Array or Point Buy. Since I have mostly played at the tables of different people over the years, I thought this was pretty much the norm. This generally means that the roll results are the least important part of the character build line and makes sense to save for last.
I too had an initial moment of what I can only describe as 'less joy' when I first saw the character generation screen, but after thinking of it, it really does make sense to me and now, I prefer it. I think a lot of this is a knee-jerk reaction to change. Different doesn't necessarily mean bad and I suspect that a year from now, most people will either not care about this topic anymore or will prefer the new order.
It is annoying, but we just tell people to start on the Ability Score tab, then Species, Background, class, etc. It should have been done in the way the character comes into being (born first, then have a background before deciding to become an adventurer).
But that's not how a character typically comes into being. Class is the most important decision, so it comes first. You then can make your other decisions in the context of that first decision, now that you have some idea what effect they will have on your character. Choosing stats before you know which ones you need is backwards, unless you're doing old-school roll-in-order, but that's not how the game expects you to do your stats.
If you're coming at a particular character from a different conceptual approach, then yes, you may have to jump around, but class-first is an entirely sensible order, especially for new players.
No offense, but a character usually comes into being because something caused that character to pursue an adventuring career. A character’s class or adventuring job is a collection of the experiences that have occurred since their birth, and it’s those experiences that can help shape the character’s development and decision to become a certain class of adventurer.
That is true in the fiction.
In the game, the character is created, and then their fictional past is brought into existence. While you could create your character's fictional past and pick their stats before officially picking their class, you, an experienced player, already know what class you're interested in.
(Unless you're rolling stats in order or some such. Which you can do if it floats your boat, but it is not a suggested method of character creation in 5e, and criticizing the suggested creation order because it doesn't match your personal house rules strikes me as silly.)
The more typical approach is concept-first, and concepts usually center on what sorts of things the character can do.
And yes picking the class first is an optimization thing powergamers almost instinctively do, I personally had to learn to break that habit to become a better player and DM.
If picking your class is powergaming, I think your definition of the term is so broad as to be meaningless.
I don't think this is actually true based on polling from Wizards. In fact, I think they even mentioned this progression of character creation isbecause that's how the majority of players actually created their character concepts: class first, then background options, then stats. We just had a session 0 a few weeks ago with three brand new players, and the first question we asked them when it came to character creation was "what's your fantasy?" You know what all of them answered first with? A class idea (or something akin to a class, since they didn't even know what classes existed when the question was asked). Not a single one answered with a species or background or ability scores.
After that, it was easy enough to let them know what ability scores they would want to increase with the backgrounds. Then we... rolled for stats (lol). Turned out fine, but had I been DMing, I don't think I would have done that part ;).
There was a distinction brought up in another thread about character generation vs character creation. People who like to roll down the line, make meaningful choices on background and species, and then choose a class based on those things are likely generating a character. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd argue that the majority of players think of class as concept first, then fill out the rest of the details (and that's, again, borne out by the decision to organize character creation this way). They create a character they want to play.
Yea, the majority of new players will follow the same pattern of character creation as the rules lay them out, and the majority of wizards player base are primarily new players, so of course the majority of a poll will reflect that mentality of how a character is created.
But it’s not the only way, and changing the way it was designed when the character builder for 2014 had species/race first then class in the tab order just reinforces the idea of what a character can do is more important than what the character learns and grows into. It becomes a one shoe fits all system that becomes stale and is no different than any other game system that uses the same approach.
As was pointed out, newer players follow the book and thats fine for learning the ropes, but the more experienced players, those who want a bit more story than hack-n-smash tend to start generating/creating a character from the time that character would have been born, and developing the character from there to fit the role they wanted to be.
I just think changing the tab order in the character builder was unnecessary, and was done more to really separate the new system from the old.
the more experienced players, those who want a bit more story than hack-n-smash tend to start generating/creating a character from the time that character would have been born, and developing the character from there to fit the role they wanted to be.
[citation needed]
Look, anyone who’s been playing for any length of time has probably had a character pop into their head in a lot of different orders. They want to play an elf, they want to play a warlock, they want to play a farm boy going out into the world. There’s no one order that will be right for every character every time. So WotC decided to make the builder follow the book, because they have actual market research and 10 years of experience about how people tend to make their characters. Really, it’s probably most accurate to say they used their data to determine lots of people, maybe a majority but at least a plurality, choose class first. So they made the book that way, and made the builder fit the book. It’s got to be in some order, why not the one that matches the book?
I don’t really understand why this is an issue at all. It’s beyond easy to flip between tabs. Outside of folks with some kind of axe to grind, (not directing this at any one person, here) why would anyone be upset? Because WotC aren’t doing it the way they, personally, prefer? Stop and think for 2 seconds about the fact that other people may like to do it differently (and no one is objectively correct) and realize how entitled that sounds.
Well first of all that is suggesting that the order the book presents things is de facto perfect. More significantly, though, it assumes that the majority making characters actually read the books.
That's not accurate.
It does not make that particular approach "defacto" anything beyond simply the defacto order that is the one in the 2024 book, which is the current versions of the game that his site supports, blah blah blah.
For there to be a defacto "right order" there needs to be evidence of an improper order, and there is none of that. Merely a basis for the goal of matching the current normative process as outlines in the current, present, right now game.
For what it's worth, since I can't use the character builder, when i create a character, I think of what their role in the world is first -- not class, not species, not background. What is it that they do, why does that need to be done, and how does it change the world?
I am otherwise unconcerned about the sequence on the tabs, and wouldn't be even if we could use the builder -- character creation s a collaborative effort for us, and can start anywhere along the overall process, nor is it bound by such an order.
It does make sense in that folks who are coming to the game new will be focused on what class they want to play, then what species, then what background they have. If I had my choice, it would go Species, Background(s), Class, everything else -- but once I have an idea of what the role is, I think about what happens to make someone into that kind of person, so I start at birth.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
the more experienced players, those who want a bit more story than hack-n-smash tend to start generating/creating a character from the time that character would have been born, and developing the character from there to fit the role they wanted to be.
[citation needed]
Look, anyone who’s been playing for any length of time has probably had a character pop into their head in a lot of different orders. They want to play an elf, they want to play a warlock, they want to play a farm boy going out into the world. There’s no one order that will be right for every character every time. So WotC decided to make the builder follow the book, because they have actual market research and 10 years of experience about how people tend to make their characters. Really, it’s probably most accurate to say they used their data to determine lots of people, maybe a majority but at least a plurality, choose class first. So they made the book that way, and made the builder fit the book. It’s got to be in some order, why not the one that matches the book?
I don’t really understand why this is an issue at all. It’s beyond easy to flip between tabs. Outside of folks with some kind of axe to grind, (not directing this at any one person, here) why would anyone be upset? Because WotC aren’t doing it the way they, personally, prefer? Stop and think for 2 seconds about the fact that other people may like to do it differently (and no one is objectively correct) and realize how entitled that sounds.
Why is it that any criticism of the changes made automatically becomes someone with an axe to grind or an entitled attitude towards the changes.
The question asked was why was the tab order changed and when did it happen. It changed when the new book was made available, and it follows how the new book rules does it.
Great, wonderful, whoopy doo. Nothing changed other than different words and a shuffled tab order that to some, who aren’t going through the change of rules from 14 to 24, won’t understand why character creation process is different.
When did the order of the tabs in the character builder change?
Why is species after class and background? It is like a character does not know what they were born as until they have been formally trained in their class and then lived a few years doing things not actually directly related to their class, not adventuring at all. Then one day they look in a mirror and realize what species they are.
It just all feels so... backwards
I believe it changed with the release of 2024 material but I could be mistaken and yes it feels kinda backwards and weird.
It changed to match the order in the new PHB.
IMO, the new order makes sense for how people actually build their characters. Most of the time, you come in thinking "I want to play a Wizard this time", and the other choices come after. Background is second because it's where the stat bumps are.
It's also not exactly a big deal to swap back and forth, and there's really no order where you don't have to, and the PHB acknowledges that.
But the actual raw stats, no matter how they are derived, are fourth. So you are bumping before you even know the raw rolls you are working with. Also been playing long enough to say more than a few times "Playing this race sounds interesting. Now.... what class would be most interesting with it?"
Lucky for you, you can just switch around which tab you use and when you use it.
But for new people, following the book, it read a few pages, then turn to the next section, and dndbeyond matches what’s going on in the book.
Well first of all that is suggesting that the order the book presents things is de facto perfect. More significantly, though, it assumes that the majority making characters actually read the books.
I usually go Ability Scores, Race/Species, background, class, then details ( equipment and personal details)
That way i’m forced to double check my characters creation, and gain ideas to fit them in whatever world they’ve been living in.
It is annoying, but we just tell people to start on the Ability Score tab, then Species, Background, class, etc. It should have been done in the way the character comes into being (born first, then have a background before deciding to become an adventurer).
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
But that's not how a character typically comes into being. Class is the most important decision, so it comes first. You then can make your other decisions in the context of that first decision, now that you have some idea what effect they will have on your character. Choosing stats before you know which ones you need is backwards, unless you're doing old-school roll-in-order, but that's not how the game expects you to do your stats.
If you're coming at a particular character from a different conceptual approach, then yes, you may have to jump around, but class-first is an entirely sensible order, especially for new players.
It is suggesting no such thing. It is saying, I repeat, the order in the builder mirrors the one in the book. Which is simply logical sense. People can open the book and follow along in the builder.
And it’s pretty safe to say new players will be reading the book, and since that’s who they are working to help, it makes sense. And even if they’re not, the builder has to be in some order, following the book makes a lot of sense.
But, hey, maybe next time they’ll cater to your personal preferences.
It’s easy enough to move back and forth between the tabs so the order is really up to the person creating. My general pattern is: species, background, abilities, class. Basically growing the character from the ground up.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
No offense, but a character usually comes into being because something caused that character to pursue an adventuring career.
A character’s class or adventuring job is a collection of the experiences that have occurred since their birth, and it’s those experiences that can help shape the character’s development and decision to become a certain class of adventurer.
Starting with a foundation of ability values that can be later adjusted to better reflect your character has always been how character creation worked since the early days of the game.
Of course none of this really matters, a person can start creating a character however they want, and no one starting point is better than the other.
But the new method of character creation is in my opinion backwards. ( something I discovered that inexperienced players lean on. thinking that way is the most useful way to learn the basics, but quickly becomes a bit of a problem as multiple people decide to play the same class stereotype as everyone else, and no real individuality is created to make that character unique or personal.)
And yes picking the class first is an optimization thing powergamers almost instinctively do, I personally had to learn to break that habit to become a better player and DM.
The game of D&D isn’t about how much damage you can do to something, though it is fun to discover just how much you can dish and what might be able to possibly take it, but more about the risk taken to grow and develop that ability to wipe a small planet out. Or save it, to each their own.
I don't think this is actually true based on polling from Wizards. In fact, I think they even mentioned this progression of character creation is because that's how the majority of players actually created their character concepts: class first, then background options, then stats. We just had a session 0 a few weeks ago with three brand new players, and the first question we asked them when it came to character creation was "what's your fantasy?" You know what all of them answered first with? A class idea (or something akin to a class, since they didn't even know what classes existed when the question was asked). Not a single one answered with a species or background or ability scores.
After that, it was easy enough to let them know what ability scores they would want to increase with the backgrounds. Then we... rolled for stats (lol). Turned out fine, but had I been DMing, I don't think I would have done that part ;).
There was a distinction brought up in another thread about character generation vs character creation. People who like to roll down the line, make meaningful choices on background and species, and then choose a class based on those things are likely generating a character. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd argue that the majority of players think of class as concept first, then fill out the rest of the details (and that's, again, borne out by the decision to organize character creation this way). They create a character they want to play.
I have not been able to play in a 2024 game yet, but I did apply to a 2024 PBP here a couple weeks ago. I came in wanting to try either a Druid or Ranger because they are classes I never had interest in with the 2014 rules and wanted to give it a try. So, I came to the application with an idea of the class I wanted to play first.
When looking at the backgrounds, I see this as a natural second step for new players and veterans, if I am being honest. New players are going to want to identify who their PCs were before becoming adventurers, and veterans (or optimizers) will probably have a feat or ability score bonus in mind immediately after choosing their class. I personally have never met a Wizard player who wanted to put their +2 in anything other than Intelligence, no matter how great or poorly their rolls go and if such a person exists, they probably made that decision when deciding their class too.
For almost all the tables I have played at, with the exception of one game I am currently playing in, you were allowed to roll stats, and if the numbers were not satisfying, you would be able to instead choose from Standard Array or Point Buy. Since I have mostly played at the tables of different people over the years, I thought this was pretty much the norm. This generally means that the roll results are the least important part of the character build line and makes sense to save for last.
I too had an initial moment of what I can only describe as 'less joy' when I first saw the character generation screen, but after thinking of it, it really does make sense to me and now, I prefer it. I think a lot of this is a knee-jerk reaction to change. Different doesn't necessarily mean bad and I suspect that a year from now, most people will either not care about this topic anymore or will prefer the new order.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
That is true in the fiction.
In the game, the character is created, and then their fictional past is brought into existence. While you could create your character's fictional past and pick their stats before officially picking their class, you, an experienced player, already know what class you're interested in.
(Unless you're rolling stats in order or some such. Which you can do if it floats your boat, but it is not a suggested method of character creation in 5e, and criticizing the suggested creation order because it doesn't match your personal house rules strikes me as silly.)
The more typical approach is concept-first, and concepts usually center on what sorts of things the character can do.
If picking your class is powergaming, I think your definition of the term is so broad as to be meaningless.
Yea, the majority of new players will follow the same pattern of character creation as the rules lay them out, and the majority of wizards player base are primarily new players, so of course the majority of a poll will reflect that mentality of how a character is created.
But it’s not the only way, and changing the way it was designed when the character builder for 2014 had species/race first then class in the tab order just reinforces the idea of what a character can do is more important than what the character learns and grows into.
It becomes a one shoe fits all system that becomes stale and is no different than any other game system that uses the same approach.
As was pointed out, newer players follow the book and thats fine for learning the ropes, but the more experienced players, those who want a bit more story than hack-n-smash tend to start generating/creating a character from the time that character would have been born, and developing the character from there to fit the role they wanted to be.
I just think changing the tab order in the character builder was unnecessary, and was done more to really separate the new system from the old.
[citation needed]
Look, anyone who’s been playing for any length of time has probably had a character pop into their head in a lot of different orders. They want to play an elf, they want to play a warlock, they want to play a farm boy going out into the world. There’s no one order that will be right for every character every time.
So WotC decided to make the builder follow the book, because they have actual market research and 10 years of experience about how people tend to make their characters. Really, it’s probably most accurate to say they used their data to determine lots of people, maybe a majority but at least a plurality, choose class first. So they made the book that way, and made the builder fit the book. It’s got to be in some order, why not the one that matches the book?
I don’t really understand why this is an issue at all. It’s beyond easy to flip between tabs. Outside of folks with some kind of axe to grind, (not directing this at any one person, here) why would anyone be upset? Because WotC aren’t doing it the way they, personally, prefer? Stop and think for 2 seconds about the fact that other people may like to do it differently (and no one is objectively correct) and realize how entitled that sounds.
That's not accurate.
It does not make that particular approach "defacto" anything beyond simply the defacto order that is the one in the 2024 book, which is the current versions of the game that his site supports, blah blah blah.
For there to be a defacto "right order" there needs to be evidence of an improper order, and there is none of that. Merely a basis for the goal of matching the current normative process as outlines in the current, present, right now game.
For what it's worth, since I can't use the character builder, when i create a character, I think of what their role in the world is first -- not class, not species, not background. What is it that they do, why does that need to be done, and how does it change the world?
I am otherwise unconcerned about the sequence on the tabs, and wouldn't be even if we could use the builder -- character creation s a collaborative effort for us, and can start anywhere along the overall process, nor is it bound by such an order.
It does make sense in that folks who are coming to the game new will be focused on what class they want to play, then what species, then what background they have. If I had my choice, it would go Species, Background(s), Class, everything else -- but once I have an idea of what the role is, I think about what happens to make someone into that kind of person, so I start at birth.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Why is it that any criticism of the changes made automatically becomes someone with an axe to grind or an entitled attitude towards the changes.
The question asked was why was the tab order changed and when did it happen. It changed when the new book was made available, and it follows how the new book rules does it.
Great, wonderful, whoopy doo. Nothing changed other than different words and a shuffled tab order that to some, who aren’t going through the change of rules from 14 to 24, won’t understand why character creation process is different.
The point is there is not a fixed set way for anyone of any skill level to create a character however they want.
The order of how they do such is a matter between them and the DM.
As someone who likes to gamble, roll dice for ability scores, and then go with it or try again, what I roll might give me an idea for a new character.
Sometimes chaos can be fun too.