Artificers are not half-casters/half-martials. They are more like half-casters/half-tool or utility. Half-casters just defines their scope in spellcasting, but does not define what the other half is and combat focus is not the only option.
That was the case in 2014. It is no longer the case in 2024. Tool Expertise has been removed. Tools have been reimagined.
The "If you have proficiency with a tool, add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have proficiency in a skill that’s used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too." Is there, yes, but the Ability Checks are not. The Tools in PHB have a few limited Utilize Actions, but no Ability attached to them (except Thieves Tools with Sleight of Hand)
Weapons aren't a focus of the Battle Smith and that is not new in UA. They are frontline Support/Strikers, but the subclass does not make them Martials. Look at their spell list. It's not a stab fest. Only two Battle Smith additions are weapon oriented. Weapon Masteries have been given out to primarily martial classes and Weapon Masteries don't make sense for Artificers, because they aren't primarily martial. Subclasses don't change that.
If Weapons are not not the focus of a Battlesmith, then how do you explain that literally every single Feature requires a Weapon, or improves a Weapon? Level 3: You gain proficiency with Martial Weapons. You use Int for Weapon Attacks. You craft Weapons in half the time. Level 5: You get Extra Attack. You can only use this with a Weapon Attack. Level 9: Jolt can only be used when attacking with a Magic Weapon or Steel Defender. Level 15: Improved Jolt. Improved Defender
The Spells contain Shining Smite and Banishing Smite. Both require that you hit with a Weapon or Unarmed Strike. Just because the Description says that Battlesmith is a Support / Medic, doesnt mean that it is. It is a Weapon Focused Subclass, Armorer is an Armor Focused Subclass...
Artificers are not half-casters/half-martials. They are more like half-casters/half-tool or utility. Half-casters just defines their scope in spellcasting, but does not define what the other half is and combat focus is not the only option.
That was the case in 2014. It is no longer the case in 2024. Tool Expertise has been removed. Tools have been reimagined.
The "If you have proficiency with a tool, add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have proficiency in a skill that’s used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too." Is there, yes, but the Ability Checks are not. The Tools in PHB have a few limited Utilize Actions, but no Ability attached to them (except Thieves Tools with Sleight of Hand)
That was the case in 2014 and continues to be the case in UA.
They still get lots of Tool Proficiencies.
Tool Expertise wasn't a defining feature unless you were trying to turn every check into a Tool Check, which is probably what WotC is trying to avoid.
I don't like UA's Magical Tinkering and its upgrades, but it is still about things created/summoned with tools.
Replicate Magic Items is item-focused, not weapon focused.
Drain Magic Item is turning your replicated magic items into spells.
Flash of Genius is supporting abilities and saves.
Magic Item Adept lost the improved magic item crafting, but still retains the attunement features, item focused again.
Spell-storing Item is an item that gives spells.
Magic Item Savant lost the magic item attunement restriction bypass, but still retains the increased attunement slots, item focused again.
Magic Item Master is another, item focused ability.
Soul of Artifice adds more item focused abilities.
None of the Artificer Abilities revolve around utilizing weapons in combat. They are less martial than Monks who did not receive Weapon Masteries and UA makes them more spellcasting focused than 2014.
Weapons aren't a focus of the Battle Smith and that is not new in UA. They are frontline Support/Strikers, but the subclass does not make them Martials. Look at their spell list. It's not a stab fest. Only two Battle Smith additions are weapon oriented. Weapon Masteries have been given out to primarily martial classes and Weapon Masteries don't make sense for Artificers, because they aren't primarily martial. Subclasses don't change that.
If Weapons are not not the focus of a Battlesmith, then how do you explain that literally every single Feature requires a Weapon, or improves a Weapon? Level 3: You gain proficiency with Martial Weapons. You use Int for Weapon Attacks. You craft Weapons in half the time. Level 5: You get Extra Attack. You can only use this with a Weapon Attack. Level 9: Jolt can only be used when attacking with a Magic Weapon or Steel Defender. Level 15: Improved Jolt. Improved Defender
The Spells contain Shining Smite and Banishing Smite. Both require that you hit with a Weapon or Unarmed Strike. Just because the Description says that Battlesmith is a Support / Medic, doesnt mean that it is. It is a Weapon Focused Subclass, Armorer is an Armor Focused Subclass...
If they split their focus, then no one this is the focus of the Subclass. The Subclass splits the focus between the Defender, Weapons, and Arcane Jolt. Arcane Jolt is special because it triggers off of attacks, but it damages or heals as its rider ability and is shared as an improvement to both the weapons and the Steel Defender. It is part of the Support/Medic features. In all, the Battle Smith isn't a Support/Medic because the description says it is, it is a Support/Medic because:
Arcane Jolt can heal a target near the attack's target (long range heals!)
the Steel Defender's Deflect Attack
Battle Smith spells like Heroism, Warding Bond, Aura of Vitality, Aura of Purity, and Mass Cure Wounds
It is a frontline optional Striker/Support subclass. Battle Smiths are far more magically focused than a Ranger or Paladin, which are the most magically adept classes that gain weapon masteries and fighting styles. College of Valor Bards also do not gain Weapon Masteries and a Battle Smith is closer to a College of Valor Bard than a Paladin or Ranger. While Artificer's don't get as high level spells as the Bard, the number of total spells possible nearly matches pure spellcasting classes before factoring in potential enspelled items or replicated items that cast spells themselves. UA Artificers are more akin to a pure spellcasting class that has traded high level spell access for more low level spells and thus, the College of Valor comparison is far more valid with the UA Artificer than the 2014 Artificer.
One feat is a small sacrifice for Weapon Masteries and I would not sacrifice any of the Battle Smith abilities to acquire access to Masteries.
Arcane Jolt can heal a target near the attack's target (long range heals!)
the Steel Defender's Deflect Attack
Battle Smith spells like Heroism, Warding Bond, Aura of Vitality, Aura of Purity, and Mass Cure Wounds
Which triggers on a hit with a weapon or your steel defender.
Which to work, it requires that you are in Melee Range. As far as i can see, your only Touch-Spell is Shocking Grasp. So, you fight with a Weapon.
You could assist someone else with it, which turns your BS into a backliner. With a ranged Weapon.
Which are mostly Paladin Spells.
At level 6, Valor Bard can swap one Attack of Extra Attack with a Cantrip. At 14 they can swap it with a Spell. So...no, not really comparable. Valor Bard still uses mostly Spells, while the Weapon Attack is the secondary option. They have access to pretty much every single spell, no matter where it comes from. Bards are 90% Casters.
Battlesmith needs a Weapon Attack to trigger most of the features. Like a Paladins Smite. Ranger is primarily a Martial with the option to cast Spells. Since Battlesmith (and Artificer in general) Spells are mostly supportive and very limited, this is a close fit too.
Arcane Jolt can heal a target near the attack's target (long range heals!)
the Steel Defender's Deflect Attack
Battle Smith spells like Heroism, Warding Bond, Aura of Vitality, Aura of Purity, and Mass Cure Wounds
Which triggers on a hit with a weapon or your steel defender.
Which to work, it requires that you are in Melee Range. As far as i can see, your only Touch-Spell is Shocking Grasp. So, you fight with a Weapon.
You could assist someone else with it, which turns your BS into a backliner. With a ranged Weapon.
Which are mostly Paladin Spells.
At level 6, Valor Bard can swap one Attack of Extra Attack with a Cantrip. At 14 they can swap it with a Spell. So...no, not really comparable. Valor Bard still uses mostly Spells, while the Weapon Attack is the secondary option. They have access to pretty much every single spell, no matter where it comes from. Bards are 90% Casters.
Battlesmith needs a Weapon Attack to trigger most of the features. Like a Paladins Smite. Ranger is primarily a Martial with the option to cast Spells. Since Battlesmith (and Artificer in general) Spells are mostly supportive and very limited, this is a close fit too.
Correct. Weapon or Steel Defender. Weapons are not required.
Which requires the Steel Defender to be melee range. You can be anywhere.
Which are all healing or support spells. Who else has access to them doesn't matter.
A College of Valor Bard has no Pet that they are splitting the class focus with.
Battle Smiths get weapon Subclass Features, but they also get a pet and they don't suddenly lose all the spellcasting and spellcasting adjacent features of the core Artificer class.
If you want to ditch half your class and complain that it is underpowered, that is up to you. They have one subclass feature (Battle Ready) and two subclass spells (Shining Smite and Banishing Smite) that requires a weapon plus a second subclass feature that can use a weapon but doesn't have to (Arcane Jolt). Extra Attack is not actually tied to using a weapon, but you probably want to use one with it. If you think that Battle Smiths need weapon attacks to trigger most of the features, they don't. They don't need one for the Steel Defender, Arcane Jolt (the can use one, but don't need one), 80% of their Battle Smith-specific spells, and most of their Artificer core spells or abilities.
Artificers, including Battle Smiths, are spellcasters who have the option join the frontline of combat, but they are not martials and hopefully never will be. Paladins and Rangers cannot output the number of spells that an Artificer can in UA and 2014. That is in part due to the Spell-storing Item which can be used for some shenanigans. Battle Smiths can use it to let someone else cast Shield or Warding Bond. But with a 20 Intelligence, an Artificer will be able to directly Indirectly produce 10 spells (2014) or 11 spells (UA) over the slots in their Class table before even getting into replicating items that cast spells. This actually has them casting 3 or 4 (2014 or UA) more spells than a Bard at 20th level. The Bard of course gets Bardic Inspiration, but the Artificer gets Magical Tinkering (useful in 2014 and trivial in UA) and Infusions/Replicate Magic Item. The Bard and Artificer are far closer than the Artificer and the Ranger or Paladin in terms of both Magical ability and Martial nature.
Collegue of Valor Bard has a completely different Skillset though. First of all, they are Full Casters. Not only that, they get access to pretty much every single Spell in the Game, no matter if it is Arcane, Divine or Primal. Then there is their variant of Extra Attack. When they get theirs, they can straight up use it to use a Cantrip and an Attack. Later on they can even use a Spell.
Ranger has the same Action Economy as Battle Smith. Attack, Extra Attack, Bonus Action for Commands or a Feature (Hunters Mark, Smites).
Then there is another feature. If Artificer should not get access to Mastery because "they have Cantrips", then please look at Ranger and Paladin. Ranger level 2: Instead of a Fighting Style, they can choose two Druid Cantrips. Paladin Level 2: Instead of a Fighting Style, they can choose two Cleric Cantrips. So, both of those classes now have Mastery, Expertise, and Cantrips. Both are Half Casters. Ranger can go "Battle Smith" by choosing Beast Master, yeah their Pet cant deflect, but they can do everything else. They have the same "Bond Feature", and are more versatile due to being Land, Air or Water. And Ranger has access to a very similar set of Spells.
Now...where is the fairness in that? Why not treat Artificers the same? Dont let them start with Cantrips, let them choose a Path, just like the other two half caster / half martials do. Choose between the path of the Caster, or the path of the Fighter. Artillerist and Alchemist would go down the Caster route, while Armorer and Battlesmith would go the Martial way.
Collegue of Valor Bard has a completely different Skillset though. First of all, they are Full Casters. Not only that, they get access to pretty much every single Spell in the Game, no matter if it is Arcane, Divine or Primal. Then there is their variant of Extra Attack. When they get theirs, they can straight up use it to use a Cantrip and an Attack. Later on they can even use a Spell.
College of Valor Bards can cast almost as many spells as an Artificer and Artificers may actually have access to more spells at a given time via Enspelled items. 2014 Artificers have access to more items, but UA loses this perk. I would like to see Battle Smiths picking up the substituting an attack for a Cantrip, but as Ace of Rogues pointed out, there may be balance issues with that and the Steel Defender attack. I am leaning towards it would be fine though.
Then there is another feature. If Artificer should not get access to Mastery because "they have Cantrips", then please look at Ranger and Paladin. Ranger level 2: Instead of a Fighting Style, they can choose two Druid Cantrips. Paladin Level 2: Instead of a Fighting Style, they can choose two Cleric Cantrips. So, both of those classes now have Mastery, Expertise, and Cantrips. Both are Half Casters. Ranger can go "Battle Smith" by choosing Beast Master, yeah their Pet cant deflect, but they can do everything else. They have the same "Bond Feature", and are more versatile due to being Land, Air or Water. And Ranger has access to a very similar set of Spells.
At level 2, Rangers and Paladins can give up their free Fighting Style to get 2 Cantrips. At this level, Artificers and Bards also have 2 Cantrips. At level 14+ Rangers and Paladins still have 2 Cantrips. Artificers and Bards have 4.
The Ranger's pet can't deflect attacks which is a significant part of the Steel Defender's support capability.
Now...where is the fairness in that? Why not treat Artificers the same? Dont let them start with Cantrips, let them choose a Path, just like the other two half caster / half martials do. Choose between the path of the Caster, or the path of the Fighter. Artillerist and Alchemist would go down the Caster route, while Armorer and Battlesmith would go the Martial way.
Artificers are not half martials. Battle Smiths aren't either. If you want a martial with a splash of casting, grab an Eldritch Knight, and take the Artisan Feat and you have something more like the Battle Smith you want.
If you want a pet as good as a Beast Master's, Weapon Features as good as Martials, and all the Artificer gravy on top in order to be considered "fair". I will not support that. It's not appropriate or balanced. It's way too much. The Steel Defender is great and you seem to wholly discount it, instead dwelling on the class has martial weapon proficiencies so it "must" be a martial class. I think the main thing the Battle Smith is missing is the ability to use replicated items as spellcasting foci, which I think was an oversight, or to use a magic weapons as one.
If you want Battle Smiths to pick up weapon masteries on top of the buffs they got, you have to ask what Subclass features you would be willing to drop.
Collegue of Valor Bard has a completely different Skillset though. First of all, they are Full Casters. Not only that, they get access to pretty much every single Spell in the Game, no matter if it is Arcane, Divine or Primal. Then there is their variant of Extra Attack. When they get theirs, they can straight up use it to use a Cantrip and an Attack. Later on they can even use a Spell.
College of Valor Bards can cast almost as many spells as an Artificer and Artificers may actually have access to more spells at a given time via Enspelled items. 2014 Artificers have access to more items, but UA loses this perk. I would like to see Battle Smiths picking up the substituting an attack for a Cantrip, but as Ace of Rogues pointed out, there may be balance issues with that and the Steel Defender attack. I am leaning towards it would be fine though.
Im not sure which list you are looking at, but Bards are Full Casters. They get access to more Spell Slots and the full 9 Levels. As you just said, there may be balance issues...maybe because Valor Bard is not the correct comparison? Beast Master Ranger who picked up Cantrips is. Not to mention that the Enspelled Items are considered an exploit by many and want a clarification on that.
Then there is another feature. If Artificer should not get access to Mastery because "they have Cantrips", then please look at Ranger and Paladin. Ranger level 2: Instead of a Fighting Style, they can choose two Druid Cantrips. Paladin Level 2: Instead of a Fighting Style, they can choose two Cleric Cantrips. So, both of those classes now have Mastery, Expertise, and Cantrips. Both are Half Casters. Ranger can go "Battle Smith" by choosing Beast Master, yeah their Pet cant deflect, but they can do everything else. They have the same "Bond Feature", and are more versatile due to being Land, Air or Water. And Ranger has access to a very similar set of Spells.
At level 2, Rangers and Paladins can give up their free Fighting Style to get 2 Cantrips. At this level, Artificers and Bards also have 2 Cantrips. At level 14+ Rangers and Paladins still have 2 Cantrips. Artificers and Bards have 4.
The Ranger's pet can't deflect attacks which is a significant part of the Steel Defender's support capability.
Rangers Land-Pet has Beast-Strike. If it moved, it deals more Damage. 1d8 + 2 + Wis + 1d6 and the Target is Prone, without saving throw. Rangers Water-Pet is Ambhibious and usable on Land and Water. When attacking, it Grapples. Rangers Air-Pet is the weakest of the 3 but does not provoke Opportunity Attacks. Battle Smiths Pet deals 1d8 + 2 + Int, so similiar to the Land-Pet, but instead of the Prone-Attack it has a Deflect-Reaction and Repair.
Neither of these pets is better or stronger than the others, Ranger is simply more flexible with it, but Ranger is the Class with the stronger base-set due to all the 2024 Buffs and the Artificers UA Nerf.
If you want Battle Smiths to pick up weapon masteries on top of the buffs they got, you have to ask what Subclass features you would be willing to drop.
Level 1: Every Artificer knows Prestidigitation. Maybe Mending. These two Cantrips are so iconic for Artificers, why should only a Rock Gnome know them for free? Keep the old Magic Tinkering and fill in the blanks of Prestidigitation: Warm/Chill: The Item provides advantage on extreme weather checks (like a mundane blanket) Illusion Trinket: You can create 1 Item from the Fast Crafting List in addition to [ Insert Items like the Vials and Ladder ]. This unifies the systems by not adding yet another list of items you need to remember.
Level 2: Choose between 2 Schools: Arcane and War. Arcane: You learn 2 Cantrips. You can switch Cantrips at a Long Rest. War: You have Weapon Mastery with 2 Weapons and you can use them as a Spellcasting Focus
Collegue of Valor Bard has a completely different Skillset though. First of all, they are Full Casters. Not only that, they get access to pretty much every single Spell in the Game, no matter if it is Arcane, Divine or Primal. Then there is their variant of Extra Attack. When they get theirs, they can straight up use it to use a Cantrip and an Attack. Later on they can even use a Spell.
College of Valor Bards can cast almost as many spells as an Artificer and Artificers may actually have access to more spells at a given time via Enspelled items. 2014 Artificers have access to more items, but UA loses this perk. I would like to see Battle Smiths picking up the substituting an attack for a Cantrip, but as Ace of Rogues pointed out, there may be balance issues with that and the Steel Defender attack. I am leaning towards it would be fine though.
Im not sure which list you are looking at, but Bards are Full Casters. They get access to more Spell Slots and the full 9 Levels. As you just said, there may be balance issues...maybe because Valor Bard is not the correct comparison? Beast Master Ranger who picked up Cantrips is. Not to mention that the Enspelled Items are considered an exploit by many and want a clarification on that.
Artificer Spellcasting + Spell Storing Item with 20 Intelligence + Drain Magic Item is 15 + 10 + 1 = 26 leveled spells per day at level 20. Bard Spellcasting + nothing is 22 + 0 = 22 leveled spells per day at level 20. Ranger Spellcasting + Hunter's Mark twice per day is 15 + 2 = 17 leveled spells per day at level 20.
That is before taking into account the actual Replicated Magic Item (apart for making one to Drain). The Bard can cast spells above level 5, but the Artificer can cast 4 more spells per day than the Bard and 9 more than the Ranger.
For spell versatility, the Artificer has numerous options via Replicate Magic Item. An All Purpose Tool allows access to any one Cantrip from any class (and treat it as an Artificer spell), multiple Wand Options (I think at rare, the highest spell level is 3), many of the magic items can produce one time spells or at will spells of varying level. I think at Rare, a Mimir producing Legend Lore might be the highest level spell (level 5). Even if we restrict the Artificer to learning Enspelled Item {Spell} as an individual plan, that still puts it on par with the versatility of a Bard's Magical Secrets.
In a spellcasting sense, Rangers and Paladins can't come close to an Artificer.
Ranger has the same Action Economy as Battle Smith. Attack, Extra Attack, Bonus Action for Commands or a Feature (Hunters Mark, Smites).
College of Valor Bard has the same Action Economy as the Battle Smith. Attack, Extra Attack, Bonus Action for Bardic Inspiration/Spells.
No? Attack, Extra Attack / Cantrip / Spell, Bonus Action for Inspiration. Thats a big difference to literally the same Economy.
Yes, I agree, the Bard has literally the same Action Economy. If one of the classes didn't have viable Bonus Attack actions, the Action Economy would be different, but that's not the case.
Options lead to versatility which strengthens your character. Don't ignore the class features then complain about your character being weak or not optimal. You chose to discard the features.
Rangers Land-Pet has Beast-Strike. If it moved, it deals more Damage. 1d8 + 2 + Wis + 1d6 and the Target is Prone, without saving throw. Rangers Water-Pet is Ambhibious and usable on Land and Water. When attacking, it Grapples. Rangers Air-Pet is the weakest of the 3 but does not provoke Opportunity Attacks. Battle Smiths Pet deals 1d8 + 2 + Int, so similiar to the Land-Pet, but instead of the Prone-Attack it has a Deflect-Reaction and Repair.
Neither of these pets is better or stronger than the others, Ranger is simply more flexible with it, but Ranger is the Class with the stronger base-set due to all the 2024 Buffs and the Artificers UA Nerf.
This is the dedicated pet subclass. Stop comparing your pet that is not the dedicated focus of the subclass to the pets of the class that dedicates all of the Subclass abilities to it. If you want a Steel Defender that is as strong and versatile as a Ranger's Pet, give up Battle Ready, Arcane Jolt, and their upgrades. There is no flat out UA Artificer Nerf. Some things got removed. but some crazy things go added.
If you want Battle Smiths to pick up weapon masteries on top of the buffs they got, you have to ask what Subclass features you would be willing to drop.
Level 1: Every Artificer knows Prestidigitation. Maybe Mending. These two Cantrips are so iconic for Artificers, why should only a Rock Gnome know them for free? Keep the old Magic Tinkering and fill in the blanks of Prestidigitation: Warm/Chill: The Item provides advantage on extreme weather checks (like a mundane blanket) Illusion Trinket: You can create 1 Item from the Fast Crafting List in addition to [ Insert Items like the Vials and Ladder ]. This unifies the systems by not adding yet another list of items you need to remember.
This, I agree with. I would think they'd replace the old Magical Tinkering with Prestidigitation rather than have both, but I would like this version with Mending too.
If you want a feature to represent branching paths, the Cleric's Divine order is more appropriate, although I don't see that happening unless they remove Heavy Armor Proficiency from the Armorer (which also seems unlikely).
After getting feedback for my revised version of the artificer, that i created as feedback and option for the communety i revorked some things and here is the new one, so have fun with it:
Pact of Blade Warlock has not been released for 2024 yet. But the old 2014 again has enough other stuff going on that would justify not getting Mastery. They get access to Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade too which is their variant of Mastery.
2024 Pact of the Blade is an Invocation. If Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade is their variant of Mastery, then it's the Battle Smith's as well.
Oh, i didnt even know about the 2024 version. In 2014 this Pact was "just a soulbound weapon you can conjure". In 2024 it became MUCH MORE than that. It is now a Spellcasting Focus, and you can swap damage to necrotic, radiant or psychic.
Hexblade then turns this feature into much more. Because it is now a Focus, they can use the Cantrips through it. And since Pact of the Blade is limited to melee weapons, this works just fine. The only similarity to Battlesmith is the "stat shift" to use Charisma for attacks.
But Battlesmith is again different here. Not only do they not have a weapon-focus, they can use ALL weapons and are not limited to just melee. So if you play a ranged-smith, those cantrips wont work. And if you play a melee-shield-smith, you cant cast them. So...general Weapon Mastery would work best for them, unless those Cantrips are changed to work with any Attack.
We'll see what the Hexblade looks like when/if it is updated. Currently, Pact of the Blade took some of the Hex Warrior abilities, but is limited to any simple or martial melee weapon, while the Hexblade is limited to any weapon they are proficient in (effectively simple or martial) that lacks the Two-handed property (melee or ranged). Since it also applies to any Pact Weapons, a Pact of the Blade weapon, the final restrictions are any melee simple or martial weapon or any ranged simple or martial weapon that lacks the two-handed property. This will allow ranged options of a dart, sling, blowgun, hand crossbow, and Pistol (unless your game does not automatically include firearms in martial weapon proficiencies).
Battle Smith is more weapon focused than the base Artificer, but weapons are hardly the defining feature of the class. The UA summary is "Command a Construct Guardian", Tasha's describe them as a Protector and Medic accompanied by a protective companion. They are more of a frontliner, sure, but the subclass is so divided. Comparing pre2024/preUA, every feature of the Bladesinger is offensive or personal defense related (except for the Performance proficiency). The Battle Smith features add a little bit to weapons in the form of proficiency and alleviating MAD issues and getting Extra Attack, they get a Construct Ally that defends them and other allies, and the Arcane Jolt damage or healing rider ability. Their spells include only 2 weapon attack oriented spells, the rest are save oriented, buffs, or heals.
If the Paladin is a combat medic that is 2/3rds martial, the Battle Smith is closer to 1/2 martial.
Not only that, but Battle Smiths have access to Green-flame Blade, Booming Blade, and True Strike (new to UA; works with ranged attacks) which can trigger their Arcane Jolt ability.
As you said with Warlock, that is their variant of Mastery.
I think the comparison between the Pact of the Blade and artificers isn’t entirely fair here. Warlocks, especially Pact of the Blade, are a unique case among full casters.
Warlocks top off at 5th level spells, just like Artificers. They are not full casters. They are the best class to compare Artificers to.
Battle Smiths and Armorer, on the other hand, are heavily focused on their weapons and combat presence. Saying weapons aren’t a defining feature of the class downplays how integral they are to the Battle Smith’s design. They’re martial half-casters who are expected to frontline, as shown by features like martial weapon proficiency, Extra Attack, and the Steel Defender providing utility and tactical options. Weapon masteries would enhance this playstyle without taking away their support identity, adding tactical depth to both their offense and defense.
Weapons aren't a focus of the Battle Smith and that is not new in UA. They are frontline Support/Strikers, but the subclass does not make them Martials. Look at their spell list. It's not a stab fest. Only two Battle Smith additions are weapon oriented. Weapon Masteries have been given out to primarily martial classes and Weapon Masteries don't make sense for Artificers, because they aren't primarily martial. Subclasses don't change that.
It’s also worth noting that the ranger and paladin updates gave them weapon masteries, recognizing their status as half-casters. Artificers are in the same category, yet they’ve been left out of this improvement. All artificers interact with weapons to some extent, even the Alchemist, who benefits from ranged attacks while supporting allies. Weapon masteries wouldn’t make them overpowered but would give all subclasses a broader tactical toolkit, making their combat options more engaging.
Artificers are not half-casters/half-martials. They are more like half-casters/half-tool or utility. Half-casters just defines their scope in spellcasting, but does not define what the other half is and combat focus is not the only option.
In short, weapon masteries would enhance all artificer subclasses, making their martial side more dynamic and rewarding. It could simbolise their experince of thesting their own creations. That would bring them in line with other half-casters, giving players more meaningful choices in combat and reinforcing the class’s versatility as both problem-solvers and halve casters.
Giving every one who interacts with weapons to some extent Weapon Masteries eliminates the benefits given to actual Martial classes. If you want Weapon Masteries as an Artificer, take the Feat or multiclass.
To the point that Warlocks top off at 5th level spells, just like Artificers. They are not full casters. They are the best class to compare Artificers to. That's somewhat true, but it's although wrong and the reason why I said that the warlock isn't good for comparison and that's a special case under full casters. Their spell slots cap out at 5th lvl spells, but their spell casting ability doesn't. The important difference to Artificers is that they have access to 9th lvl spells. You can compare a warlock more to a full caster than to a halve caster.... to the other point that Artificers aren't half caster and half martial, I don't think so. They where part of the 3 half casters and you could play the other two although more as a support or build them more than a martial build. The only difference is that ranger and pala got fighting styles and Artificers Cantrips, but a discussion over this is a belief thing. The only fact is, if they miss out of weapon masteries they are the only half casters that didn't got buffed and the short end of the stick.
P.s. the warlock has although normal spell progression. They have 3rd lvl spells at 5th lvl while all half caster have them at 9th level, which is a huge difference.
To your argument that the Artificer can use magic items for its spells with enspelled weapons and that they get more spells with the spell storing Item. The magic item thing is a exploit which gets either removed or Band at tables, to the second point, paladins and rangers get free casts of spells to, so they should count in the total of spells aswell
To the point that they don't use weapons I can only say that I completely disagree, they are the MAGIC ITEM USER class, which includes magic weapons...
To the point that Warlocks top off at 5th level spells, just like Artificers. They are not full casters. They are the best class to compare Artificers to. That's somewhat true, but it's although wrong and the reason why I said that the warlock isn't good for comparison and that's a special case under full casters. Their spell slots cap out at 5th lvl spells, but their spell casting ability doesn't. The important difference to Artificers is that they have access to 9th lvl spells. You can compare a warlock more to a full caster than to a halve caster.... to the other point that Artificers aren't half caster and half martial, I don't think so. They where part of the 3 half casters and you could play the other two although more as a support or build them more than a martial build. The only difference is that ranger and pala got fighting styles and Artificers Cantrips, but a discussion over this is a belief thing. The only fact is, if they miss out of weapon masteries they are the only half casters that didn't got buffed and the short end of the stick.
How exactly do Warlocks cast spells above 5th level outside of their Mystic Arcanum and scrolls? What am I missing? Warlock is a good class to compare Artificers to because they cap off at level 5 slots and have a class feature that expands their magic ability (Eldritch Invocations paralleling Infusions/Replicate Magic Item). It's not perfect, but they follow similar templates.
Artificers are not martial. Not everyone who doesn't fully cast spells are half martial. Artificers are spellcasters and the other half is more magic shenanigans. Warlocks aren't half Martial because they cap off at 5th level slots.
To your argument that the Artificer can use magic items for its spells with enspelled weapons and that they get more spells with the spell storing Item. The magic item thing is a exploit which gets either removed or Band at tables, to the second point, paladins and rangers get free casts of spells to, so they should count in the total of spells aswell
Honestly, until we see the final version, the RAW of the UA is the only thing we can assess. Anything else is premature. With a 20 Intelligence, Artificers can use Spell-storing Item and Drain Magic Item to cast an additional 10 spells per day before actually casting spells via Replicate Magic Item with things like Enspelled Items. The spell levels will be low, like Warlocks casting spells via Eldritch Invocations, but the number of spells will be wild.
I counted the Ranger's free casting. If I missed any, please correct my math. I did not check the Paladin. If either comes close to casting 26 leveled spells per day, with or without a spell slot from class features, let me know. Note that 26 spells is just the base Artificer spellcasting, Spell-storing Item, and Drain Magic Item, nothing else.
To the point that they don't use weapons I can only say that I completely disagree, they are the MAGIC ITEM USER class, which includes magic weapons...
Magic items includes armor, should the base class suddenly get all armor proficiencies? Should they get martial weapon proficiency because they can replicate them? No.
Everyone gets weapon proficiency and can use them. If you are going to base that on justification for Weapon Masteries, then everyone should get them. At that point, actual martials will need something special again. At which point everyone who looked at a weapon once while be clamoring for it too.
No, the Artificer does not primarily focus on interacting in combat encounters via weapons. If you want Masteries without multiclassing, take the feat. Just like a College of Valor Bard or Pact of the Blade Warlock.
To the point that Warlocks top off at 5th level spells, just like Artificers. They are not full casters. They are the best class to compare Artificers to. That's somewhat true, but it's although wrong and the reason why I said that the warlock isn't good for comparison and that's a special case under full casters. Their spell slots cap out at 5th lvl spells, but their spell casting ability doesn't. The important difference to Artificers is that they have access to 9th lvl spells. You can compare a warlock more to a full caster than to a halve caster.... to the other point that Artificers aren't half caster and half martial, I don't think so. They where part of the 3 half casters and you could play the other two although more as a support or build them more than a martial build. The only difference is that ranger and pala got fighting styles and Artificers Cantrips, but a discussion over this is a belief thing. The only fact is, if they miss out of weapon masteries they are the only half casters that didn't got buffed and the short end of the stick.
How exactly do Warlocks cast spells above 5th level outside of their Mystic Arcanum and scrolls? What am I missing? Warlock is a good class to compare Artificers to because they cap off at level 5 slots and have a class feature that expands their magic ability (Eldritch Invocations paralleling Infusions/Replicate Magic Item). It's not perfect, but they follow similar templates.
Artificers are not martial. Not everyone who doesn't fully cast spells are half martial. Artificers are spellcasters and the other half is more magic shenanigans. Warlocks aren't half Martial because they cap off at 5th level slots.
To your argument that the Artificer can use magic items for its spells with enspelled weapons and that they get more spells with the spell storing Item. The magic item thing is a exploit which gets either removed or Band at tables, to the second point, paladins and rangers get free casts of spells to, so they should count in the total of spells aswell
Honestly, until we see the final version, the RAW of the UA is the only thing we can assess. Anything else is premature. With a 20 Intelligence, Artificers can use Spell-storing Item and Drain Magic Item to cast an additional 10 spells per day before actually casting spells via Replicate Magic Item with things like Enspelled Items. The spell levels will be low, like Warlocks casting spells via Eldritch Invocations, but the number of spells will be wild.
I counted the Ranger's free casting. If I missed any, please correct my math. I did not check the Paladin. If either comes close to casting 26 leveled spells per day, with or without a spell slot from class features, let me know. Note that 26 spells is just the base Artificer spellcasting, Spell-storing Item, and Drain Magic Item, nothing else.
To the point that they don't use weapons I can only say that I completely disagree, they are the MAGIC ITEM USER class, which includes magic weapons...
Magic items includes armor, should the base class suddenly get all armor proficiencies? Should they get martial weapon proficiency because they can replicate them? No.
Everyone gets weapon proficiency and can use them. If you are going to base that on justification for Weapon Masteries, then everyone should get them. At that point, actual martials will need something special again. At which point everyone who looked at a weapon once while be clamoring for it too.
No, the Artificer does not primarily focus on interacting in combat encounters via weapons. If you want Masteries without multiclassing, take the feat. Just like a College of Valor Bard or Pact of the Blade Warlock.
You can't compare warlocks with any half caster, just because their official spell slot progression ends at 5th lvl. First off all, they gain the normal spell progression of full casters, which you completely ignore and you ignore the fact that they have a spell list up to 9th lvl spells they can use. Either give Artificers a feature like warlock have and turn them to semi full caster (that's what the Level 11: Mystic Arcanum features does for warlocks) with the improved spell list and spell progression (http://dnd2024.*******.com/warlock:spell-list that's the warlock spell list, which proves the point that they are more like full casters... http://dnd2024.*******.com/warlock:main and here is the full class with its spell progression that it proves aswell. It doesn't matter that the table shows them only going to 5th lvl, when they have access to 9th lvl spells.) There’s a reason why full casters get less class features then half-casters and martials, since spells are features... that's why you can't compare a half-casters with any full casters, since the power between a 5th and 9th level spell are world's appart in general. There are some enemies you can't even hurt with low level spells and for them you need weapons and class features as a half caster. I agree to the point that martials need something to reduce the gap to the full casters, but so do the half casters and they got it up until know
To your point that they can cast spells with magic items, so can evryone else, either they craft the magic item themselves (which is extremely easy with the new rules) or you don't play like a jerk as a Artificer and hand out the magic items you create. The additional spells you can cast aren't just for you, but your whole party. If you ever played and optimised a Artificer, than you would know that they get stronger by increasing the whole Partys strength, but the problem with that is that your character feels underwealming afterwards. Just a question, have you ever played as a Artificer before?
P.s. BTW, Artificers get armor perficencies, some get even heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency and if I follow your argument, then paladins and rangers shouldn't had received weapon masteries aswell
To your point that they can cast spells with magic items, so can evryone else, either they craft the magic item themselves (which is extremely easy with the new rules) or you don't play like a jerk as a Artificer and hand out the magic items you create. The additional spells you can cast aren't just for you, but your whole party. If you ever played and optimised a Artificer, than you would know that they get stronger by increasing the whole Partys strength, but the problem with that is that your character feels underwealming afterwards.
Not sure its being a jerk as an Artificer if you keep some or all of your created items for yourself; it just may or may not be the most tactical play depending on the situation and the rest of the party.
But it does have a weird interaction with the other Artificer features that are "fuelled" by destroying your items! Nobbling your main class feature in order to use another class feature feels dumb. As others have pointed out, the best way to use this is to create wands or other charged items and only destroy them once the charges have been used.
But that still constrains what you make and when you can use your features - and if you gave your magic items out to party members this just creates a whole bunch of other issues! Do you destroy the magic sword you gave to the fighter because you really want a 2nd level spell slot back???
To your point that they can cast spells with magic items, so can evryone else, either they craft the magic item themselves (which is extremely easy with the new rules) or you don't play like a jerk as a Artificer and hand out the magic items you create. The additional spells you can cast aren't just for you, but your whole party. If you ever played and optimised a Artificer, than you would know that they get stronger by increasing the whole Partys strength, but the problem with that is that your character feels underwealming afterwards.
Not sure its being a jerk as an Artificer if you keep some or all of your created items for yourself; it just may or may not be the most tactical play depending on the situation and the rest of the party.
But it does have a weird interaction with the other Artificer features that are "fuelled" by destroying your items! Nobbling your main class feature in order to use another class feature feels dumb. As others have pointed out, the best way to use this is to create wands or other charged items and only destroy them once the charges have been used.
But that still constrains what you make and when you can use your features - and if you gave your magic items out to party members this just creates a whole bunch of other issues! Do you destroy the magic sword you gave to the fighter because you really want a 2nd level spell slot back???
Well, you could play the egoistisch way and keep them (that could make sense as a Armorer or battle Smith, but even than it would be wise to give some to your party) or be a team player and share
To your point that they can cast spells with magic items, so can evryone else, either they craft the magic item themselves (which is extremely easy with the new rules) or you don't play like a jerk as a Artificer and hand out the magic items you create. The additional spells you can cast aren't just for you, but your whole party. If you ever played and optimised a Artificer, than you would know that they get stronger by increasing the whole Partys strength, but the problem with that is that your character feels underwealming afterwards.
Not sure its being a jerk as an Artificer if you keep some or all of your created items for yourself; it just may or may not be the most tactical play depending on the situation and the rest of the party.
But it does have a weird interaction with the other Artificer features that are "fuelled" by destroying your items! Nobbling your main class feature in order to use another class feature feels dumb. As others have pointed out, the best way to use this is to create wands or other charged items and only destroy them once the charges have been used.
But that still constrains what you make and when you can use your features - and if you gave your magic items out to party members this just creates a whole bunch of other issues! Do you destroy the magic sword you gave to the fighter because you really want a 2nd level spell slot back???
Well, you could play the egoistisch way and keep them (that could make sense as a Armorer or battle Smith, but even than it would be wise to give some to your party) or be a team player and share
My point was more about using those Artificer features that require you to destroy your items. Using those features becomes even worse if all your items are actively being used by your party members!
To your point that they can cast spells with magic items, so can evryone else, either they craft the magic item themselves (which is extremely easy with the new rules) or you don't play like a jerk as a Artificer and hand out the magic items you create. The additional spells you can cast aren't just for you, but your whole party. If you ever played and optimised a Artificer, than you would know that they get stronger by increasing the whole Partys strength, but the problem with that is that your character feels underwealming afterwards.
Not sure its being a jerk as an Artificer if you keep some or all of your created items for yourself; it just may or may not be the most tactical play depending on the situation and the rest of the party.
But it does have a weird interaction with the other Artificer features that are "fuelled" by destroying your items! Nobbling your main class feature in order to use another class feature feels dumb. As others have pointed out, the best way to use this is to create wands or other charged items and only destroy them once the charges have been used.
But that still constrains what you make and when you can use your features - and if you gave your magic items out to party members this just creates a whole bunch of other issues! Do you destroy the magic sword you gave to the fighter because you really want a 2nd level spell slot back???
Well, you could play the egoistisch way and keep them (that could make sense as a Armorer or battle Smith, but even than it would be wise to give some to your party) or be a team player and share
Partly depends on tier of play, how the DM hands out loot, and if your group disregards attunement. If you keep the restrictions then most groups getting into tier 2 can already start bumping up against the ceiling of what they can use at once. It’s a fair go for Artificers to lean towards keeping a personal kit of tools or rounding out their own build before covering others, especially if the others are already being provided for.
To your point that they can cast spells with magic items, so can evryone else, either they craft the magic item themselves (which is extremely easy with the new rules) or you don't play like a jerk as a Artificer and hand out the magic items you create. The additional spells you can cast aren't just for you, but your whole party. If you ever played and optimised a Artificer, than you would know that they get stronger by increasing the whole Partys strength, but the problem with that is that your character feels underwealming afterwards.
Not sure its being a jerk as an Artificer if you keep some or all of your created items for yourself; it just may or may not be the most tactical play depending on the situation and the rest of the party.
But it does have a weird interaction with the other Artificer features that are "fuelled" by destroying your items! Nobbling your main class feature in order to use another class feature feels dumb. As others have pointed out, the best way to use this is to create wands or other charged items and only destroy them once the charges have been used.
But that still constrains what you make and when you can use your features - and if you gave your magic items out to party members this just creates a whole bunch of other issues! Do you destroy the magic sword you gave to the fighter because you really want a 2nd level spell slot back???
Well, you could play the egoistisch way and keep them (that could make sense as a Armorer or battle Smith, but even than it would be wise to give some to your party) or be a team player and share
Partly depends on tier of play, how the DM hands out loot, and if your group disregards attunement. If you keep the restrictions then most groups getting into tier 2 can already start bumping up against the ceiling of what they can use at once. It’s a fair go for Artificers to lean towards keeping a personal kit of tools or rounding out their own build before covering others, especially if the others are already being provided for.
I could see this in D&D 5.5 (depends on the monster manual), but in 5e, especially when the DM isn't someone who gives out magic items regularly, the infusions that turn weapons into magic items are a must-have for martial characters, especially in tiers 2 and 3, thanks to resistance against non-magical piercing, bludgeoning, and slashing damage. (Poor martials D: ) On the other hand, a Mind Sharpener (keeping concentraition on those shut down spells is important) or Enhanced Arcane Focus is great for your full caster allies (yes, even the Enhanced Arcane Focus, especially for Warlocks, Eldrich blast go brrr XD). And for all tiers, Goggles of Night are fantastic to give to your human fighter, who would otherwise stumble in the dark. It's always good to share atleast one magic with your party, sharing is careing and when the party depends on your items, they will do a lot to keep you alive XD
p.s.
P.S. But that wasn't the main point. The core of my argument is that you can't really compare a Bard or a Warlock with an Artificer, thanks to their diffrent spell recourses. Additionally, the infusions aren't just a resource for one player; they can be a party-wide benefit, helping everyone, not just the Artificer
Artificers are not half-casters/half-martials. They are more like half-casters/half-tool or utility. Half-casters just defines their scope in spellcasting, but does not define what the other half is and combat focus is not the only option.
That was the case in 2014. It is no longer the case in 2024. Tool Expertise has been removed. Tools have been reimagined.
The "If you have proficiency with a tool, add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have proficiency in a skill that’s used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too." Is there, yes, but the Ability Checks are not. The Tools in PHB have a few limited Utilize Actions, but no Ability attached to them (except Thieves Tools with Sleight of Hand)
Weapons aren't a focus of the Battle Smith and that is not new in UA. They are frontline Support/Strikers, but the subclass does not make them Martials. Look at their spell list. It's not a stab fest. Only two Battle Smith additions are weapon oriented. Weapon Masteries have been given out to primarily martial classes and Weapon Masteries don't make sense for Artificers, because they aren't primarily martial. Subclasses don't change that.
If Weapons are not not the focus of a Battlesmith, then how do you explain that literally every single Feature requires a Weapon, or improves a Weapon? Level 3: You gain proficiency with Martial Weapons. You use Int for Weapon Attacks. You craft Weapons in half the time. Level 5: You get Extra Attack. You can only use this with a Weapon Attack. Level 9: Jolt can only be used when attacking with a Magic Weapon or Steel Defender. Level 15: Improved Jolt. Improved Defender
The Spells contain Shining Smite and Banishing Smite. Both require that you hit with a Weapon or Unarmed Strike. Just because the Description says that Battlesmith is a Support / Medic, doesnt mean that it is. It is a Weapon Focused Subclass, Armorer is an Armor Focused Subclass...
i agree with you on that, there are so many options in the artificer for a weapon user and many of its features go over many areas. Its the jack of all traists class and master of non. It was alway the case and it will always be. Thats a other reason why they should get weapon masteries ^^
You can't compare warlocks with any half caster, just because their official spell slot progression ends at 5th lvl. First off all, they gain the normal spell progression of full casters, which you completely ignore and you ignore the fact that they have a spell list up to 9th lvl spells they can use. Either give Artificers a feature like warlock have and turn them to semi full caster (that's what the Level 11: Mystic Arcanum features does for warlocks) with the improved spell list and spell progression
I didn't ignore it, which is why I asked how Warlocks cast spells above 5th level outside of Mystic Arcanum and Scrolls. Mystic Arcanum allows the Warlock to cast one 6th+ level spell, but I don't see any other use for their spell list. That is extremely limited. Take your one gimmick, cast it, then take a nap? The best use of the Spell List is to grab some scrolls and activate them to cast the spell you need.
To your point that they can cast spells with magic items, so can evryone else, either they craft the magic item themselves (which is extremely easy with the new rules) or you don't play like a jerk as a Artificer and hand out the magic items you create. The additional spells you can cast aren't just for you, but your whole party. If you ever played and optimised a Artificer, than you would know that they get stronger by increasing the whole Partys strength, but the problem with that is that your character feels underwealming afterwards. Just a question, have you ever played as a Artificer before?
I have played Artificers since Eberron released in 3.5. I also tend to play Paladins and Bards, but Artificers are my favorite class to play. Just a question, have you?
For this point only consider the items that the Artificer Replicates (UA) or Infuses (2014). These are effectively class features. They can be used to buff the artificer or handed out. If you feel underwhelming because the rest of the party is doing better because of your buffs (handing out replicated magic items is buffing others with your class features) then you are not accustomed to playing in a buffing role. You succeed or fail as a team. Anyone playing in a support role needs to embrace that.
P.s. BTW, Artificers get armor perficencies, some get even heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency and if I follow your argument, then paladins and rangers shouldn't had received weapon masteries aswell
Artificers as a class do not get Heavy Armor Proficiency. Ranges and Paladins are martial classes that primarily interact with combat encounters with weapons.
P.S. But that wasn't the main point. The core of my argument is that you can't really compare a Bard or a Warlock with an Artificer, thanks to their diffrent spell recourses. Additionally, the infusions aren't just a resource for one player; they can be a party-wide benefit, helping everyone, not just the Artificer
A Warlock mixes spellcasting with magic options via class features that can replicate spellcasting. This is very much like an Artificer and before the UA, I wondered if moving Warlock Invocations up to first level might mean Infusions might be bumped up to 1st level as well.
Warlocks tend to be more "selfish" in that they are more focused on personal abilities or damage, but Bards very much share their abilities with the Party and increase the effectiveness of their Party Members. It might be more obvious because the Bardic buffs are shorter duration than giving someone a +1/+2 sword.
I could see this in D&D 5.5 (depends on the monster manual), but in 5e, especially when the DM isn't someone who gives out magic items regularly, the infusions that turn weapons into magic items are a must-have for martial characters, especially in tiers 2 and 3, thanks to resistance against non-magical piercing, bludgeoning, and slashing damage. (Poor martials D: ) On the other hand, a Mind Sharpener (keeping concentraition on those shut down spells is important) or Enhanced Arcane Focus is great for your full caster allies (yes, even the Enhanced Arcane Focus, especially for Warlocks, Eldrich blast go brrr XD). And for all tiers, Goggles of Night are fantastic to give to your human fighter, who would otherwise stumble in the dark. It's always good to share atleast one magic with your party, sharing is careing and when the party depends on your items, they will do a lot to keep you alive XD
Infusion/Replicate Magic Items are a way to reliably plan access to specific items. It is up to the Artificer to decide where to best use them. Just overcoming non-magical damage resistance also has other options that should not be overlooked, like [spells]Magic Weapon[spells], even if magic weapons aren't otherwise common or available. However, I would imagine that in a magic item depleted campaign, an Artificer would be disruptive and potentially be disallowed due to their nature.
i agree with you on that, there are so many options in the artificer for a weapon user and many of its features go over many areas. Its the jack of all traists class and master of non. It was alway the case and it will always be. Thats a other reason why they should get weapon masteries ^^
Emphasis added. They are exactly this, a jack of all trades, with mastery of none, including weapons.
Keith Baker's original Artificer and Magewright classes from 3.5 were part of the explanation of the abundance of magic items in the setting. They (primarily House Cannith) figured out how to churn out a lot of magic items, but they were generally on the low end and higher tier magic was as restricted as in normal settings. The Artificer in 5e has Sorcerer (3.x) level of spellcasting volume, but doesn't hit the high levels of spellcasting that Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerer, and Wizards do. They also do not have exceptional access to Very Rare or Legendary Items (apart from the crafting time reduction for their specialty). Both of these are thematically appropriate to the Eberron setting and, by extension, the Artificer class.
In everything, the Artificer can do a lot, but does not demonstrate mastery.
That was the case in 2014. It is no longer the case in 2024. Tool Expertise has been removed. Tools have been reimagined.
The "If you have proficiency with a tool, add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have proficiency in a skill that’s used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too." Is there, yes, but the Ability Checks are not. The Tools in PHB have a few limited Utilize Actions, but no Ability attached to them (except Thieves Tools with Sleight of Hand)
If Weapons are not not the focus of a Battlesmith, then how do you explain that literally every single Feature requires a Weapon, or improves a Weapon?
Level 3: You gain proficiency with Martial Weapons. You use Int for Weapon Attacks. You craft Weapons in half the time.
Level 5: You get Extra Attack. You can only use this with a Weapon Attack.
Level 9: Jolt can only be used when attacking with a Magic Weapon or Steel Defender.
Level 15: Improved Jolt. Improved Defender
The Spells contain Shining Smite and Banishing Smite. Both require that you hit with a Weapon or Unarmed Strike.
Just because the Description says that Battlesmith is a Support / Medic, doesnt mean that it is. It is a Weapon Focused Subclass, Armorer is an Armor Focused Subclass...
That was the case in 2014 and continues to be the case in UA.
None of the Artificer Abilities revolve around utilizing weapons in combat. They are less martial than Monks who did not receive Weapon Masteries and UA makes them more spellcasting focused than 2014.
If they split their focus, then no one this is the focus of the Subclass. The Subclass splits the focus between the Defender, Weapons, and Arcane Jolt. Arcane Jolt is special because it triggers off of attacks, but it damages or heals as its rider ability and is shared as an improvement to both the weapons and the Steel Defender. It is part of the Support/Medic features. In all, the Battle Smith isn't a Support/Medic because the description says it is, it is a Support/Medic because:
It is a frontline optional Striker/Support subclass. Battle Smiths are far more magically focused than a Ranger or Paladin, which are the most magically adept classes that gain weapon masteries and fighting styles. College of Valor Bards also do not gain Weapon Masteries and a Battle Smith is closer to a College of Valor Bard than a Paladin or Ranger. While Artificer's don't get as high level spells as the Bard, the number of total spells possible nearly matches pure spellcasting classes before factoring in potential enspelled items or replicated items that cast spells themselves. UA Artificers are more akin to a pure spellcasting class that has traded high level spell access for more low level spells and thus, the College of Valor comparison is far more valid with the UA Artificer than the 2014 Artificer.
One feat is a small sacrifice for Weapon Masteries and I would not sacrifice any of the Battle Smith abilities to acquire access to Masteries.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
At level 6, Valor Bard can swap one Attack of Extra Attack with a Cantrip. At 14 they can swap it with a Spell. So...no, not really comparable. Valor Bard still uses mostly Spells, while the Weapon Attack is the secondary option. They have access to pretty much every single spell, no matter where it comes from. Bards are 90% Casters.
Battlesmith needs a Weapon Attack to trigger most of the features. Like a Paladins Smite. Ranger is primarily a Martial with the option to cast Spells. Since Battlesmith (and Artificer in general) Spells are mostly supportive and very limited, this is a close fit too.
A College of Valor Bard has no Pet that they are splitting the class focus with.
Battle Smiths get weapon Subclass Features, but they also get a pet and they don't suddenly lose all the spellcasting and spellcasting adjacent features of the core Artificer class.
If you want to ditch half your class and complain that it is underpowered, that is up to you. They have one subclass feature (Battle Ready) and two subclass spells (Shining Smite and Banishing Smite) that requires a weapon plus a second subclass feature that can use a weapon but doesn't have to (Arcane Jolt). Extra Attack is not actually tied to using a weapon, but you probably want to use one with it. If you think that Battle Smiths need weapon attacks to trigger most of the features, they don't. They don't need one for the Steel Defender, Arcane Jolt (the can use one, but don't need one), 80% of their Battle Smith-specific spells, and most of their Artificer core spells or abilities.
Artificers, including Battle Smiths, are spellcasters who have the option join the frontline of combat, but they are not martials and hopefully never will be. Paladins and Rangers cannot output the number of spells that an Artificer can in UA and 2014. That is in part due to the Spell-storing Item which can be used for some shenanigans. Battle Smiths can use it to let someone else cast Shield or Warding Bond. But with a 20 Intelligence, an Artificer will be able to directly Indirectly produce 10 spells (2014) or 11 spells (UA) over the slots in their Class table before even getting into replicating items that cast spells. This actually has them casting 3 or 4 (2014 or UA) more spells than a Bard at 20th level. The Bard of course gets Bardic Inspiration, but the Artificer gets Magical Tinkering (useful in 2014 and trivial in UA) and Infusions/Replicate Magic Item. The Bard and Artificer are far closer than the Artificer and the Ranger or Paladin in terms of both Magical ability and Martial nature.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Collegue of Valor Bard has a completely different Skillset though.
First of all, they are Full Casters. Not only that, they get access to pretty much every single Spell in the Game, no matter if it is Arcane, Divine or Primal.
Then there is their variant of Extra Attack. When they get theirs, they can straight up use it to use a Cantrip and an Attack. Later on they can even use a Spell.
Ranger has the same Action Economy as Battle Smith.
Attack, Extra Attack, Bonus Action for Commands or a Feature (Hunters Mark, Smites).
Then there is another feature. If Artificer should not get access to Mastery because "they have Cantrips", then please look at Ranger and Paladin.
Ranger level 2: Instead of a Fighting Style, they can choose two Druid Cantrips.
Paladin Level 2: Instead of a Fighting Style, they can choose two Cleric Cantrips.
So, both of those classes now have Mastery, Expertise, and Cantrips. Both are Half Casters. Ranger can go "Battle Smith" by choosing Beast Master, yeah their Pet cant deflect, but they can do everything else. They have the same "Bond Feature", and are more versatile due to being Land, Air or Water. And Ranger has access to a very similar set of Spells.
Now...where is the fairness in that? Why not treat Artificers the same?
Dont let them start with Cantrips, let them choose a Path, just like the other two half caster / half martials do.
Choose between the path of the Caster, or the path of the Fighter. Artillerist and Alchemist would go down the Caster route, while Armorer and Battlesmith would go the Martial way.
College of Valor Bards can cast almost as many spells as an Artificer and Artificers may actually have access to more spells at a given time via Enspelled items. 2014 Artificers have access to more items, but UA loses this perk. I would like to see Battle Smiths picking up the substituting an attack for a Cantrip, but as Ace of Rogues pointed out, there may be balance issues with that and the Steel Defender attack. I am leaning towards it would be fine though.
College of Valor Bard has the same Action Economy as the Battle Smith.
Attack, Extra Attack, Bonus Action for Bardic Inspiration/Spells.
At level 2, Rangers and Paladins can give up their free Fighting Style to get 2 Cantrips. At this level, Artificers and Bards also have 2 Cantrips. At level 14+ Rangers and Paladins still have 2 Cantrips. Artificers and Bards have 4.
The Ranger's pet can't deflect attacks which is a significant part of the Steel Defender's support capability.
Artificers are not half martials. Battle Smiths aren't either. If you want a martial with a splash of casting, grab an Eldritch Knight, and take the Artisan Feat and you have something more like the Battle Smith you want.
If you want a pet as good as a Beast Master's, Weapon Features as good as Martials, and all the Artificer gravy on top in order to be considered "fair". I will not support that. It's not appropriate or balanced. It's way too much. The Steel Defender is great and you seem to wholly discount it, instead dwelling on the class has martial weapon proficiencies so it "must" be a martial class. I think the main thing the Battle Smith is missing is the ability to use replicated items as spellcasting foci, which I think was an oversight, or to use a magic weapons as one.
If you want Battle Smiths to pick up weapon masteries on top of the buffs they got, you have to ask what Subclass features you would be willing to drop.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Im not sure which list you are looking at, but Bards are Full Casters. They get access to more Spell Slots and the full 9 Levels.
As you just said, there may be balance issues...maybe because Valor Bard is not the correct comparison? Beast Master Ranger who picked up Cantrips is.
Not to mention that the Enspelled Items are considered an exploit by many and want a clarification on that.
No? Attack, Extra Attack / Cantrip / Spell, Bonus Action for Inspiration. Thats a big difference to literally the same Economy.
Wow, 4 Cantrips, thats amazing. Totally worth 14 Levels. /s
Rangers Land-Pet has Beast-Strike. If it moved, it deals more Damage. 1d8 + 2 + Wis + 1d6 and the Target is Prone, without saving throw.
Rangers Water-Pet is Ambhibious and usable on Land and Water. When attacking, it Grapples.
Rangers Air-Pet is the weakest of the 3 but does not provoke Opportunity Attacks.
Battle Smiths Pet deals 1d8 + 2 + Int, so similiar to the Land-Pet, but instead of the Prone-Attack it has a Deflect-Reaction and Repair.
Neither of these pets is better or stronger than the others, Ranger is simply more flexible with it, but Ranger is the Class with the stronger base-set due to all the 2024 Buffs and the Artificers UA Nerf.
Level 1: Every Artificer knows Prestidigitation. Maybe Mending. These two Cantrips are so iconic for Artificers, why should only a Rock Gnome know them for free?
Keep the old Magic Tinkering and fill in the blanks of Prestidigitation:
Warm/Chill: The Item provides advantage on extreme weather checks (like a mundane blanket)
Illusion Trinket: You can create 1 Item from the Fast Crafting List in addition to [ Insert Items like the Vials and Ladder ]. This unifies the systems by not adding yet another list of items you need to remember.
Level 2: Choose between 2 Schools: Arcane and War.
Arcane: You learn 2 Cantrips. You can switch Cantrips at a Long Rest.
War: You have Weapon Mastery with 2 Weapons and you can use them as a Spellcasting Focus
Artificer Spellcasting + Spell Storing Item with 20 Intelligence + Drain Magic Item is 15 + 10 + 1 = 26 leveled spells per day at level 20.
Bard Spellcasting + nothing is 22 + 0 = 22 leveled spells per day at level 20.
Ranger Spellcasting + Hunter's Mark twice per day is 15 + 2 = 17 leveled spells per day at level 20.
That is before taking into account the actual Replicated Magic Item (apart for making one to Drain). The Bard can cast spells above level 5, but the Artificer can cast 4 more spells per day than the Bard and 9 more than the Ranger.
For spell versatility, the Artificer has numerous options via Replicate Magic Item. An All Purpose Tool allows access to any one Cantrip from any class (and treat it as an Artificer spell), multiple Wand Options (I think at rare, the highest spell level is 3), many of the magic items can produce one time spells or at will spells of varying level. I think at Rare, a Mimir producing Legend Lore might be the highest level spell (level 5). Even if we restrict the Artificer to learning Enspelled Item {Spell} as an individual plan, that still puts it on par with the versatility of a Bard's Magical Secrets.
In a spellcasting sense, Rangers and Paladins can't come close to an Artificer.
Yes, I agree, the Bard has literally the same Action Economy. If one of the classes didn't have viable Bonus Attack actions, the Action Economy would be different, but that's not the case.
Options lead to versatility which strengthens your character. Don't ignore the class features then complain about your character being weak or not optimal. You chose to discard the features.
This is the dedicated pet subclass. Stop comparing your pet that is not the dedicated focus of the subclass to the pets of the class that dedicates all of the Subclass abilities to it. If you want a Steel Defender that is as strong and versatile as a Ranger's Pet, give up Battle Ready, Arcane Jolt, and their upgrades. There is no flat out UA Artificer Nerf. Some things got removed. but some crazy things go added.
This, I agree with. I would think they'd replace the old Magical Tinkering with Prestidigitation rather than have both, but I would like this version with Mending too.
If you want a feature to represent branching paths, the Cleric's Divine order is more appropriate, although I don't see that happening unless they remove Heavy Armor Proficiency from the Armorer (which also seems unlikely).
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
After getting feedback for my revised version of the artificer, that i created as feedback and option for the communety i revorked some things and here is the new one, so have fun with it:
To the point that Warlocks top off at 5th level spells, just like Artificers. They are not full casters. They are the best class to compare Artificers to. That's somewhat true, but it's although wrong and the reason why I said that the warlock isn't good for comparison and that's a special case under full casters. Their spell slots cap out at 5th lvl spells, but their spell casting ability doesn't. The important difference to Artificers is that they have access to 9th lvl spells. You can compare a warlock more to a full caster than to a halve caster.... to the other point that Artificers aren't half caster and half martial, I don't think so. They where part of the 3 half casters and you could play the other two although more as a support or build them more than a martial build. The only difference is that ranger and pala got fighting styles and Artificers Cantrips, but a discussion over this is a belief thing. The only fact is, if they miss out of weapon masteries they are the only half casters that didn't got buffed and the short end of the stick.
P.s. the warlock has although normal spell progression. They have 3rd lvl spells at 5th lvl while all half caster have them at 9th level, which is a huge difference.
To your argument that the Artificer can use magic items for its spells with enspelled weapons and that they get more spells with the spell storing Item. The magic item thing is a exploit which gets either removed or Band at tables, to the second point, paladins and rangers get free casts of spells to, so they should count in the total of spells aswell
To the point that they don't use weapons I can only say that I completely disagree, they are the MAGIC ITEM USER class, which includes magic weapons...
How exactly do Warlocks cast spells above 5th level outside of their Mystic Arcanum and scrolls? What am I missing? Warlock is a good class to compare Artificers to because they cap off at level 5 slots and have a class feature that expands their magic ability (Eldritch Invocations paralleling Infusions/Replicate Magic Item). It's not perfect, but they follow similar templates.
Artificers are not martial. Not everyone who doesn't fully cast spells are half martial. Artificers are spellcasters and the other half is more magic shenanigans. Warlocks aren't half Martial because they cap off at 5th level slots.
Honestly, until we see the final version, the RAW of the UA is the only thing we can assess. Anything else is premature. With a 20 Intelligence, Artificers can use Spell-storing Item and Drain Magic Item to cast an additional 10 spells per day before actually casting spells via Replicate Magic Item with things like Enspelled Items. The spell levels will be low, like Warlocks casting spells via Eldritch Invocations, but the number of spells will be wild.
I counted the Ranger's free casting. If I missed any, please correct my math. I did not check the Paladin. If either comes close to casting 26 leveled spells per day, with or without a spell slot from class features, let me know. Note that 26 spells is just the base Artificer spellcasting, Spell-storing Item, and Drain Magic Item, nothing else.
Magic items includes armor, should the base class suddenly get all armor proficiencies? Should they get martial weapon proficiency because they can replicate them? No.
Everyone gets weapon proficiency and can use them. If you are going to base that on justification for Weapon Masteries, then everyone should get them. At that point, actual martials will need something special again. At which point everyone who looked at a weapon once while be clamoring for it too.
No, the Artificer does not primarily focus on interacting in combat encounters via weapons. If you want Masteries without multiclassing, take the feat. Just like a College of Valor Bard or Pact of the Blade Warlock.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
You can't compare warlocks with any half caster, just because their official spell slot progression ends at 5th lvl. First off all, they gain the normal spell progression of full casters, which you completely ignore and you ignore the fact that they have a spell list up to 9th lvl spells they can use. Either give Artificers a feature like warlock have and turn them to semi full caster (that's what the Level 11: Mystic Arcanum features does for warlocks) with the improved spell list and spell progression (http://dnd2024.*******.com/warlock:spell-list that's the warlock spell list, which proves the point that they are more like full casters... http://dnd2024.*******.com/warlock:main and here is the full class with its spell progression that it proves aswell. It doesn't matter that the table shows them only going to 5th lvl, when they have access to 9th lvl spells.) There’s a reason why full casters get less class features then half-casters and martials, since spells are features... that's why you can't compare a half-casters with any full casters, since the power between a 5th and 9th level spell are world's appart in general. There are some enemies you can't even hurt with low level spells and for them you need weapons and class features as a half caster. I agree to the point that martials need something to reduce the gap to the full casters, but so do the half casters and they got it up until know
To your point that they can cast spells with magic items, so can evryone else, either they craft the magic item themselves (which is extremely easy with the new rules) or you don't play like a jerk as a Artificer and hand out the magic items you create. The additional spells you can cast aren't just for you, but your whole party. If you ever played and optimised a Artificer, than you would know that they get stronger by increasing the whole Partys strength, but the problem with that is that your character feels underwealming afterwards. Just a question, have you ever played as a Artificer before?
P.s. BTW, Artificers get armor perficencies, some get even heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency and if I follow your argument, then paladins and rangers shouldn't had received weapon masteries aswell
Not sure its being a jerk as an Artificer if you keep some or all of your created items for yourself; it just may or may not be the most tactical play depending on the situation and the rest of the party.
But it does have a weird interaction with the other Artificer features that are "fuelled" by destroying your items! Nobbling your main class feature in order to use another class feature feels dumb. As others have pointed out, the best way to use this is to create wands or other charged items and only destroy them once the charges have been used.
But that still constrains what you make and when you can use your features - and if you gave your magic items out to party members this just creates a whole bunch of other issues! Do you destroy the magic sword you gave to the fighter because you really want a 2nd level spell slot back???
Well, you could play the egoistisch way and keep them (that could make sense as a Armorer or battle Smith, but even than it would be wise to give some to your party) or be a team player and share
My point was more about using those Artificer features that require you to destroy your items. Using those features becomes even worse if all your items are actively being used by your party members!
Partly depends on tier of play, how the DM hands out loot, and if your group disregards attunement. If you keep the restrictions then most groups getting into tier 2 can already start bumping up against the ceiling of what they can use at once. It’s a fair go for Artificers to lean towards keeping a personal kit of tools or rounding out their own build before covering others, especially if the others are already being provided for.
I could see this in D&D 5.5 (depends on the monster manual), but in 5e, especially when the DM isn't someone who gives out magic items regularly, the infusions that turn weapons into magic items are a must-have for martial characters, especially in tiers 2 and 3, thanks to resistance against non-magical piercing, bludgeoning, and slashing damage. (Poor martials D: ) On the other hand, a Mind Sharpener (keeping concentraition on those shut down spells is important) or Enhanced Arcane Focus is great for your full caster allies (yes, even the Enhanced Arcane Focus, especially for Warlocks, Eldrich blast go brrr XD). And for all tiers, Goggles of Night are fantastic to give to your human fighter, who would otherwise stumble in the dark. It's always good to share atleast one magic with your party, sharing is careing and when the party depends on your items, they will do a lot to keep you alive XD
p.s.
P.S. But that wasn't the main point. The core of my argument is that you can't really compare a Bard or a Warlock with an Artificer, thanks to their diffrent spell recourses. Additionally, the infusions aren't just a resource for one player; they can be a party-wide benefit, helping everyone, not just the Artificer
i agree with you on that, there are so many options in the artificer for a weapon user and many of its features go over many areas. Its the jack of all traists class and master of non. It was alway the case and it will always be. Thats a other reason why they should get weapon masteries ^^
I didn't ignore it, which is why I asked how Warlocks cast spells above 5th level outside of Mystic Arcanum and Scrolls. Mystic Arcanum allows the Warlock to cast one 6th+ level spell, but I don't see any other use for their spell list. That is extremely limited. Take your one gimmick, cast it, then take a nap? The best use of the Spell List is to grab some scrolls and activate them to cast the spell you need.
I have played Artificers since Eberron released in 3.5. I also tend to play Paladins and Bards, but Artificers are my favorite class to play. Just a question, have you?
For this point only consider the items that the Artificer Replicates (UA) or Infuses (2014). These are effectively class features. They can be used to buff the artificer or handed out. If you feel underwhelming because the rest of the party is doing better because of your buffs (handing out replicated magic items is buffing others with your class features) then you are not accustomed to playing in a buffing role. You succeed or fail as a team. Anyone playing in a support role needs to embrace that.
Artificers as a class do not get Heavy Armor Proficiency. Ranges and Paladins are martial classes that primarily interact with combat encounters with weapons.
A Warlock mixes spellcasting with magic options via class features that can replicate spellcasting. This is very much like an Artificer and before the UA, I wondered if moving Warlock Invocations up to first level might mean Infusions might be bumped up to 1st level as well.
Warlocks tend to be more "selfish" in that they are more focused on personal abilities or damage, but Bards very much share their abilities with the Party and increase the effectiveness of their Party Members. It might be more obvious because the Bardic buffs are shorter duration than giving someone a +1/+2 sword.
Infusion/Replicate Magic Items are a way to reliably plan access to specific items. It is up to the Artificer to decide where to best use them. Just overcoming non-magical damage resistance also has other options that should not be overlooked, like [spells]Magic Weapon[spells], even if magic weapons aren't otherwise common or available. However, I would imagine that in a magic item depleted campaign, an Artificer would be disruptive and potentially be disallowed due to their nature.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Emphasis added. They are exactly this, a jack of all trades, with mastery of none, including weapons.
Keith Baker's original Artificer and Magewright classes from 3.5 were part of the explanation of the abundance of magic items in the setting. They (primarily House Cannith) figured out how to churn out a lot of magic items, but they were generally on the low end and higher tier magic was as restricted as in normal settings. The Artificer in 5e has Sorcerer (3.x) level of spellcasting volume, but doesn't hit the high levels of spellcasting that Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerer, and Wizards do. They also do not have exceptional access to Very Rare or Legendary Items (apart from the crafting time reduction for their specialty). Both of these are thematically appropriate to the Eberron setting and, by extension, the Artificer class.
In everything, the Artificer can do a lot, but does not demonstrate mastery.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.