Exactly! I'm not sure where the idea came from that lycanthropy should suddenly be treated as a debilitating illness that should ruin your character. Under the new 2024 rules, becoming a werewolf doesn't grant you any benefits—instead, you lose all your skills and abilities and turn into a 10 HP NPC under the DM's control forever unless the DM is feeling merciful and even then what are you going to do with a 10hp dogman person that can't level up? There's no connection to moonlight either the transformation happens instantly upon death. The way it's written now, it feels more like turning into a zombie than becoming an werewolf.
Hello Greyboss. My post specifies that he failed his save, meaning he attempted to resist, not embraced. Nothing in the Player Characters as Lycanthropes section specifies what happens to those who try to resist beyond statistic changes. Only those who embrace are at risk of an alignment change (becoming evil) according to RAW.
Is there an actual section that explains the lycanthropy stuff for PCs, or is it just what's in the statblocks?
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Is there an actual section that explains the lycanthropy stuff for PCs, or is it just what's in the statblocks?
In the MM 2014, it has a section specifically for PCs who suffer the curse. Under the lore of the lycans but before the stat blocks of the Lycanthropes page.
Hello Greyboss. My post specifies that he failed his save, meaning he attempted to resist, not embraced. Nothing in the Player Characters as Lycanthropes section specifies what happens to those who try to resist beyond statistic changes. Only those who embrace are at risk of an alignment change (becoming evil) according to RAW.
Ah, my mistake. Howeever
A lycanthrope can either resist its curse or embrace it. By resisting the curse, a lycanthrope retains its normal alignment and personality while in humanoid form.
When you resist the curse, you retain your normal alignment and thus the control of your PC. this true.
It lives its life as it always has, burying deep the bestial urges raging inside it.
basically there is another beast living inside you, waiting to be unleashed. like a double personality. When the other personality comes out, you are not you, and thus you cannot control you.
However, when the full moon rises, the curse becomes too strong to resist, [...] When the moon wanes, the beast within can be controlled once again.
When the full moon comes, you cannot resist the curse, thus your alignment changes, indicating that the "other you" is now awake in place of the usual you. The DM then can rule that they will control the character, instead of you, until the moon wanes.
Of course, you can ask your DM to fight control for the character, especially when you are about to tear your loved ones. Asking for WIS save seems pretty reasonable, and it will add a dramatic build up to the scene as you try very hard to fight the bloodlust.
TDLR: When a character chooses to resist the curse, they retain their moral alignment. However, they cannot transform at will. When the full moon rises, they are forced to transform, and lose control of their character until the moon sets.
On the other hand, embracing the curse allows a character to eventuallycontrol their transformation with enough time and practice. However, doing so causes them to shift to an evil alignment.
So, according to the rules as written, a character shouldn't be in control during a full moon transformation unless they have embraced the curse and trained to manage it or if DM just allows you to fight for control which isn't something they have to do. Which seems to be the case here.Not really an exploit with 2014 rules.
I never said they transformed at will, only that they transformed after being cursed. Because the alignment does NOT change when you attempt to resist the curse, we had a werewolf who was LG. Since the MM states the condition for the DM to choose whether to take control of the PC, and that condition never triggered, the player maintained their control. Hence the doorjam.
Under the 2014 rules, if you resist the curse, you can only transform during a full moon and that causes you to lose control...was he briefly exposed to moonlight, transformed, then went back inside and regained control? I guess that’s possible but it's really up to the DM's mercy.
The issue is that it's implied by the 2014 stat block that the damage immunity is present in all forms, not just when the subject is transformed. Ergo, regardless of how a player decides to approach the curse, they're suddenly immune to all mundane PSB attacks, ergo doorjam.
Is there an actual section that explains the lycanthropy stuff for PCs, or is it just what's in the statblocks?
In the MM 2014, it has a section specifically for PCs who suffer the curse. Under the lore of the lycans but before the stat blocks of the Lycanthropes page.
Sorry, I meant in 2024.
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I never said they transformed at will, only that they transformed after being cursed. Because the alignment does NOT change when you attempt to resist the curse,
Correction: alignment does not change in human form. In werewolf form, they are chaotic evil.
I never said they transformed at will, only that they transformed after being cursed. Because the alignment does NOT change when you attempt to resist the curse,
Correction: alignment does not change in human form. In werewolf form, they are chaotic evil.
That is the case for Monster werewolves but it specifies the changes that happen for PC who are cursed and that is not stated, unless I missed it somewhere. Like spells, a curse only does what it says it does.
I never said they transformed at will, only that they transformed after being cursed. Because the alignment does NOT change when you attempt to resist the curse,
Correction: alignment does not change in human form. In werewolf form, they are chaotic evil.
That is the case for Monster werewolves but it specifies the changes that happen for PC who are cursed and that is not stated, unless I missed it somewhere. Like spells, a curse only does what it says it does.
The issue is that it's implied by the 2014 stat block that the damage immunity is present in all forms, not just when the subject is transformed. Ergo, regardless of how a player decides to approach the curse, they're suddenly immune to all mundane PSB attacks, ergo doorjam.
Aaah yeah that's right. That is exploitable!! Not sure why they made it that way back in 2014. If they just required the player to transform to gain those benefits it would have been balanced and made more sense lorewise. I wish their solution to this wasn't just to make lycanthropy a zombie virus.
Not sure if this has been addressed, but if you contract lycanthropy, I think the player absolutely can keep playing. It will be a curse but not a debilitating one. If they drop to 0, the regain 10 hp and are a werebeast under gm control (or the pcs of he can rp it properly). That's it. So an added complocation but not one they can't handle. Also allows a pc to experience an actual curse without bein overpowered. Each were beast has other triggers (greed for a wereboar, moon for wolf, etc). If you want you could give them an in game timer to see if they do lose the character to the curse. Otherwise, fun fun!
Yeah I was just throwing them out to illustrate the range of opinions I've heard. I was not suggesting them as solutions.
Theoretically I like having a quest to find a cure, with the coming full moon as a ticking clock. But I'd also go with the Blood Hunter Lycan if the player wanted a stable werewolf character.
Path of the beast barbarian also works.
Or a shifter of any class.
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Exactly! I'm not sure where the idea came from that lycanthropy should suddenly be treated as a debilitating illness that should ruin your character. Under the new 2024 rules, becoming a werewolf doesn't grant you any benefits—instead, you lose all your skills and abilities and turn into a 10 HP NPC under the DM's control forever unless the DM is feeling merciful and even then what are you going to do with a 10hp dogman person that can't level up? There's no connection to moonlight either the transformation happens instantly upon death. The way it's written now, it feels more like turning into a zombie than becoming an werewolf.
Hello Greyboss.
My post specifies that he failed his save, meaning he attempted to resist, not embraced. Nothing in the Player Characters as Lycanthropes section specifies what happens to those who try to resist beyond statistic changes. Only those who embrace are at risk of an alignment change (becoming evil) according to RAW.
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Is there an actual section that explains the lycanthropy stuff for PCs, or is it just what's in the statblocks?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
In the MM 2014, it has a section specifically for PCs who suffer the curse. Under the lore of the lycans but before the stat blocks of the Lycanthropes page.
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Ah, my mistake. Howeever
When you resist the curse, you retain your normal alignment and thus the control of your PC. this true.
basically there is another beast living inside you, waiting to be unleashed. like a double personality. When the other personality comes out, you are not you, and thus you cannot control you.
When the full moon comes, you cannot resist the curse, thus your alignment changes, indicating that the "other you" is now awake in place of the usual you. The DM then can rule that they will control the character, instead of you, until the moon wanes.
Of course, you can ask your DM to fight control for the character, especially when you are about to tear your loved ones. Asking for WIS save seems pretty reasonable, and it will add a dramatic build up to the scene as you try very hard to fight the bloodlust.
TDLR: When a character chooses to resist the curse, they retain their moral alignment. However, they cannot transform at will. When the full moon rises, they are forced to transform, and lose control of their character until the moon sets.
On the other hand, embracing the curse allows a character to eventually control their transformation with enough time and practice. However, doing so causes them to shift to an evil alignment.
So, according to the rules as written, a character shouldn't be in control during a full moon transformation unless they have embraced the curse and trained to manage it or if DM just allows you to fight for control which isn't something they have to do. Which seems to be the case here.Not really an exploit with 2014 rules.
I never said they transformed at will, only that they transformed after being cursed. Because the alignment does NOT change when you attempt to resist the curse, we had a werewolf who was LG. Since the MM states the condition for the DM to choose whether to take control of the PC, and that condition never triggered, the player maintained their control. Hence the doorjam.
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And how did he transform?
Under the 2014 rules, if you resist the curse, you can only transform during a full moon and that causes you to lose control...was he briefly exposed to moonlight, transformed, then went back inside and regained control? I guess that’s possible but it's really up to the DM's mercy.
The issue is that it's implied by the 2014 stat block that the damage immunity is present in all forms, not just when the subject is transformed. Ergo, regardless of how a player decides to approach the curse, they're suddenly immune to all mundane PSB attacks, ergo doorjam.
Sorry, I meant in 2024.
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It comes from the rules saying "under DM control".
Correction: alignment does not change in human form. In werewolf form, they are chaotic evil.
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That is the case for Monster werewolves but it specifies the changes that happen for PC who are cursed and that is not stated, unless I missed it somewhere. Like spells, a curse only does what it says it does.
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Aaah yeah that's right. That is exploitable!! Not sure why they made it that way back in 2014. If they just required the player to transform to gain those benefits it would have been balanced and made more sense lorewise. I wish their solution to this wasn't just to make lycanthropy a zombie virus.
Not sure if this has been addressed, but if you contract lycanthropy, I think the player absolutely can keep playing. It will be a curse but not a debilitating one. If they drop to 0, the regain 10 hp and are a werebeast under gm control (or the pcs of he can rp it properly). That's it. So an added complocation but not one they can't handle. Also allows a pc to experience an actual curse without bein overpowered. Each were beast has other triggers (greed for a wereboar, moon for wolf, etc). If you want you could give them an in game timer to see if they do lose the character to the curse. Otherwise, fun fun!
Or a shifter of any class.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.