I'm shocked I tell you. A pre-Alpha release restricted to paying users, without advertising did not draw new users to D&D Beyond to test it out. It's almost as if the people who were hired to market D&D aren't able to market. I came back recently to use D&D Beyond to make a slew of 5E characters for a con, and the tool I've used for years no longer does 5E characters. Oh well, one less reason to use D&D Beyond, good job Marketing team. I wonder what else the marketers will do to drive me away from this site, I went from spending $787.05 to not buying anything in the last two years. Maybe remove half-elfs and half-orcs and break spells like charm person and hold person by making all the evil races non-humanoid I guess for marketing reasons? It marketed me OUT permanently of 6E.
The best feedback D&D employees can give management in their quarterly survey to Hasbro would be to work on the customer and hire marketers that are 50 years+ to save their jobs. This isn't necessary a D&D employee problem but a lot of high level strategy makes no sense. Or in your feedback tell the Execs to send out a churn report to see how many people who lifetime spend of $500+ haven't bought anything for 1 years, 2 years, 5+ years and then look at what they wrote. Too many good people are getting fired at D&D and its not going to stop until D&D is licensed and there are no more D&D employees.
Me: "Finally i cleared some space on my hard drive and i have time to give Sigil a try. Hey, maybe it will be as good as they made it out to be."
Sees this headline.
Me: "What did i expect? I guess that is on me to think they would follow through on their plans after putting in so much money to make it happen. Oh well, there is always TaleSpire."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
Me: "Finally i cleared some space on my hard drive and i have time to give Sigil a try. Hey, maybe it will be as good as they made it out to be."
Sees this headline.
Me: "What did i expect? I guess that is on me to think they would follow through on their plans after putting in so much money to make it happen. Oh well, there is always TaleSpire."
Currently in process of downloading it - might aswel see what they got for their money and time spent
That would have required to allow modding and make it an open platform. Do you honestly thing a bunch of Hasbro execs are that open thinking and still have the profit motive? Hasbro Exec culture = Sony Exec culture. How do you train Hasbro execs to understand that an open platform and having your customers do the work for you via modding and you can charge money for it is a good thing? Bethesda is built on player modding and they are fighting to kill players tooth and nail from doing free mods.
WotC is doing a good job. I agree with everything they've done for 2024 and so should you. Just because there are rumors of layoffs, doesn't mean its true. They could have moved them over to other projects. And just because some DM's run social campaigns doesn't mean its bad. Kobold Waiter was a fun guy to run in a Dragon's Lair setting.
WotC is doing a good job. I agree with everything they've done for 2024 and so should you. Just because there are rumors of layoffs, doesn't mean its true. They could have moved them over to other projects. And just because some DM's run social campaigns doesn't mean its bad. Kobold Waiter was a fun guy to run in a Dragon's Lair setting.
You seem to be under the impression that the people who were hired to develop a VTT using Unreal Engine had transferable job skills to other things WotC do. I highly doubt that so what would be gained by moving them to other projects?
It’s an interesting read, particularly about the internal arguments between the Sigil developers and DDB. Reminds me of rumours a couple of years ago that WotC VP of Digital Chris Cao wasn’t happy with the DDB acquisition and really hated the platform. His background was in computer gaming not TTRPG so I wonder if that’s the reason for some of the aimlessness there feels like there’s been with Sigil and whether his grudge, if true, led to the DDB clashes
Project Sigil always looked like the overly ambitious project of someone who's more a video game developer than a TTRPG developer, and the stealth launch last month was obviously a mess, so I can't say I'm surprised that it failed. At this point I think the main question is whether there's anything worth salvaging. Do people who have actually tried it out think there's some good stuff there? My guess, if there's anything, is that some of its tools can be used to produce STLs that there might be a real (if fairly small) market for.
Just watched the Ted from Nerd Immersion video going through the Rascal article and there's a quote from an anonymous source (one of the people let go) that rings way too true. They said Hasbro higher ups simply didn't understand what a VTT was and thought it was a video game, they were expecting the next BG3. Once the product was nearly finished (and had that less than successful GenCon unveil) they realised it wasn't going to make billions simply by existing and immediately lost interest
"Listen or watch some of the recorded board and shareholder meetings for Hasbro. Never underestimate the stupidity of someone who has been in power unchallenged and does not know the area they are making decisions on without listening to advice. This is Hasbro. Look up what happened to MTG and their Marvell and GI Joe decisions.
I think WOTC is shooting for something like Baldur's Gate 3 when it is in Turn Mode, but thinking they can run it out of a web browser like they do their Character sheet on their new VTT.
I think they will fail.
That does not stop them from trying and that's what I think this whole mess is about. People at the top, not understanding the conquences of what they are ordering WOTC to do, to make sure theirs has no rivals when their VTT came out."
It literally took a year since I made that comment for some accountant to convince Hasbro leadership it was not a really good movie or a really good game like BG3 and was not going to make them the money they thought it would. 20 to 30 million dollars later they they have now downgraded expectations in time to use the salary money from those they let go for the senior leadership bonuses for the bosses in Hasbro.
This is how Hasbro operates and it's legal.
I feel really sorry for those let go. I just wish one time those who, time after time, make such bad business decisions would be shown the door without golden parachutes.
I actually was happy when Hasbro first purchased D&D Beyond. That joy faded years ago. I wish someone else would purchase D&D Beyond and save them from Hasbro...
might be worth waiting for the whole story before picking up the pitchforks
Don't you know? No company in the history of business has ever invested in a new product or idea only to change their minds. /s
People get militant about the weirdest things. Pay them no mind.
I mean, sure, but the way this was handled was pretty crappy. From reporting it looks like Hasbro cut the knees out from the project when they realized it wasn't a money printing machine, and it reeks of callous incompetence. It's not exactly moral crusade worthy, but it's still kinda gross.
Idk, I probably wasn't going to use Sigil much (I got alpha access and it was neat but not really useful to me), but it's so weird how they built up this project and then just spit it out to the side.
I mean, sure, but the way this was handled was pretty crappy. From reporting it looks like Hasbro cut the knees out from the project when they realized it wasn't a money printing machine, and it reeks of callous incompetence. It's not exactly moral crusade worthy, but it's still kinda gross.
Honestly, the incompetence was mostly starting the product in the first place without a clear understanding of what they were actually doing, realizing "this project is a money pit that will never pay for itself, so let's stop throwing money into the pit" is actually good management. It sucks for the people who lost their jobs, but it doesn't sound like Hasbro is being particularly bad about it (To those moving on as a result of this decision, we will provide robust support, including severance packages, 2024 bonus, career placement services, and internal opportunities where possible).
Been saying this for years. I think we are watching the cratering of the D&D brand. If it can't be salvaged, then good riddance. Hopefully it will clear the way for more inventive and customer oriented game developers to take it's place. I know most on this board disagree with me, but I'm not a die hard fan of the company. I'm a die hard fan of the game. And this company is striping away the game. At some point it won't even be recognizable anymore than just a brand.
I mean, sure, but the way this was handled was pretty crappy. From reporting it looks like Hasbro cut the knees out from the project when they realized it wasn't a money printing machine, and it reeks of callous incompetence. It's not exactly moral crusade worthy, but it's still kinda gross.
Honestly, the incompetence was mostly starting the product in the first place without a clear understanding of what they were actually doing, realizing "this project is a money pit that will never pay for itself, so let's stop throwing money into the pit" is actually good management. It sucks for the people who lost their jobs, but it doesn't sound like Hasbro is being particularly bad about it (To those moving on as a result of this decision, we will provide robust support, including severance packages, 2024 bonus, career placement services, and internal opportunities where possible).
I guess there's some baseline competency relative to the utter failure of the project as a whole, sure? Feels like damning with faint praise at that point. Look, I'm no torch and pitchfork guy, but I don't see any way Hasbro comes out of this looking good or smart. It definitely doesn't instill confidence for future investment in the game. But I'm speculating.
Another copy and paste, sadly I don't have the source as I scraped it from another site with no source given other than "discord" not even the name of the dev, but it is positive and I thought it worth sharing.
"Here is what one Dev just posted on Discord:
As mentioned before, Sigil is not shutting down. I just now have more work to do. Hopefully with less meetings I can actually get more work done"
Could you get a screenshot of this from said dev? People are just taking gossip channels at their word and dancing on a grave prematurely.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I'm shocked I tell you. A pre-Alpha release restricted to paying users, without advertising did not draw new users to D&D Beyond to test it out. It's almost as if the people who were hired to market D&D aren't able to market. I came back recently to use D&D Beyond to make a slew of 5E characters for a con, and the tool I've used for years no longer does 5E characters. Oh well, one less reason to use D&D Beyond, good job Marketing team. I wonder what else the marketers will do to drive me away from this site, I went from spending $787.05 to not buying anything in the last two years. Maybe remove half-elfs and half-orcs and break spells like charm person and hold person by making all the evil races non-humanoid I guess for marketing reasons? It marketed me OUT permanently of 6E.
The best feedback D&D employees can give management in their quarterly survey to Hasbro would be to work on the customer and hire marketers that are 50 years+ to save their jobs. This isn't necessary a D&D employee problem but a lot of high level strategy makes no sense. Or in your feedback tell the Execs to send out a churn report to see how many people who lifetime spend of $500+ haven't bought anything for 1 years, 2 years, 5+ years and then look at what they wrote. Too many good people are getting fired at D&D and its not going to stop until D&D is licensed and there are no more D&D employees.
Me: "Finally i cleared some space on my hard drive and i have time to give Sigil a try. Hey, maybe it will be as good as they made it out to be."
Sees this headline.
Me: "What did i expect? I guess that is on me to think they would follow through on their plans after putting in so much money to make it happen. Oh well, there is always TaleSpire."
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
Imagine if they'd focused on making the DNDBeyond site usable instead of chasing what is now vaporware.
Currently in process of downloading it - might aswel see what they got for their money and time spent
im pretty sure there was plenty of players that could had work and made it happen for free.
That would have required to allow modding and make it an open platform. Do you honestly thing a bunch of Hasbro execs are that open thinking and still have the profit motive? Hasbro Exec culture = Sony Exec culture. How do you train Hasbro execs to understand that an open platform and having your customers do the work for you via modding and you can charge money for it is a good thing? Bethesda is built on player modding and they are fighting to kill players tooth and nail from doing free mods.
maybe its time for new ownership
but why?? for trying new things....
might be worth waiting for the whole story before picking up the pitchforks
Don't you know? No company in the history of business has ever invested in a new product or idea only to change their minds. /s
People get militant about the weirdest things. Pay them no mind.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Open source projects aren't as easy as you seem to think.
WotC is doing a good job. I agree with everything they've done for 2024 and so should you. Just because there are rumors of layoffs, doesn't mean its true. They could have moved them over to other projects. And just because some DM's run social campaigns doesn't mean its bad. Kobold Waiter was a fun guy to run in a Dragon's Lair setting.
You seem to be under the impression that the people who were hired to develop a VTT using Unreal Engine had transferable job skills to other things WotC do. I highly doubt that so what would be gained by moving them to other projects?
Just watched the Ted from Nerd Immersion video going through the Rascal article and there's a quote from an anonymous source (one of the people let go) that rings way too true. They said Hasbro higher ups simply didn't understand what a VTT was and thought it was a video game, they were expecting the next BG3. Once the product was nearly finished (and had that less than successful GenCon unveil) they realised it wasn't going to make billions simply by existing and immediately lost interest
I posted the below about a year ago...
It literally took a year since I made that comment for some accountant to convince Hasbro leadership it was not a really good movie or a really good game like BG3 and was not going to make them the money they thought it would. 20 to 30 million dollars later they they have now downgraded expectations in time to use the salary money from those they let go for the senior leadership bonuses for the bosses in Hasbro.
This is how Hasbro operates and it's legal.
I feel really sorry for those let go. I just wish one time those who, time after time, make such bad business decisions would be shown the door without golden parachutes.
I actually was happy when Hasbro first purchased D&D Beyond. That joy faded years ago. I wish someone else would purchase D&D Beyond and save them from Hasbro...
I mean, sure, but the way this was handled was pretty crappy. From reporting it looks like Hasbro cut the knees out from the project when they realized it wasn't a money printing machine, and it reeks of callous incompetence. It's not exactly moral crusade worthy, but it's still kinda gross.
Idk, I probably wasn't going to use Sigil much (I got alpha access and it was neat but not really useful to me), but it's so weird how they built up this project and then just spit it out to the side.
Honestly, the incompetence was mostly starting the product in the first place without a clear understanding of what they were actually doing, realizing "this project is a money pit that will never pay for itself, so let's stop throwing money into the pit" is actually good management. It sucks for the people who lost their jobs, but it doesn't sound like Hasbro is being particularly bad about it (To those moving on as a result of this decision, we will provide robust support, including severance packages, 2024 bonus, career placement services, and internal opportunities where possible).
Been saying this for years. I think we are watching the cratering of the D&D brand. If it can't be salvaged, then good riddance. Hopefully it will clear the way for more inventive and customer oriented game developers to take it's place. I know most on this board disagree with me, but I'm not a die hard fan of the company. I'm a die hard fan of the game. And this company is striping away the game. At some point it won't even be recognizable anymore than just a brand.
I guess there's some baseline competency relative to the utter failure of the project as a whole, sure? Feels like damning with faint praise at that point. Look, I'm no torch and pitchfork guy, but I don't see any way Hasbro comes out of this looking good or smart. It definitely doesn't instill confidence for future investment in the game. But I'm speculating.
Could you get a screenshot of this from said dev? People are just taking gossip channels at their word and dancing on a grave prematurely.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/hasbro-pushed-sigil-out-of-the-nest-d-and-ds-latest-layoffs-happened-because-the-distinct-monetization-path-for-its-virtual-tabletop-sigil-never-materialized/
Some details and a leak from an anonymous employee. Still might all be bunk, but not looking good.