[Redacted] you should try to avoid adding bias to your polls. The use of the word “actually” in your polling question makes it very clear you dislike the new rule system and think others should also - the plain text reading is that you do not believe anyone "actually" could like the new system and are thus inquiring whether they exist. This introduces unnecessary bias into your polling, and you really should remove this from your question if you want to give some perception of impartiality.
[Redacted] you should try to avoid adding bias to your polls. The use of the word “actually” in your polling question makes it very clear you dislike the new rule system and think others should also - the plain text reading is that you do not believe anyone "actually" could like the new system and are thus inquiring whether they exist. This introduces unnecessary bias into your polling, and you really should remove this from your question if you want to give some perception of impartiality.
if you actually look at the poll the question is simply "which do you prefer?". There is no bias whatsoever in the poll at all, all you have to do is select which version you prefer and optionally tell us in your post why you prefer that version.
Of course I have my own biases but I want to know if there are people who prefer the new ruleset and why which is why I created this thread.
I do a bit of an amalgamation of the two. Lots of things in the 2014 that i liked better or didn't brought forward, but some of the things in 5.5/2024 are pretty good.
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He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
I do a bit of an amalgamation of the two. Lots of things in the 2014 that i liked better or didn't brought forward, but some of the things in 5.5/2024 are pretty good.
So what are some of the improvements in 5.5e that you like?
To be honest, all 5e needed was a few tweaks - instead every class/subclass was fed muscle milk. Rules that were simple are now a confusing mess. I have retyped this post several times, each time it ends up being a monstrously long post listing all the things that they made more confusing instead of less, and things they beefed up that didn't need beefing (seriously not every class needed to have its damage output doubled). So I think i'm just going to leave it to these few lines, if you really want to see an exhaustive list of everything wrong with 5e2024, there are plenty of other threads on that very topic (just look at the huge amount of confusion over how Nick works).
In the end, I do not dislike 5e2024 enough to not play it - and DnD Beyond has made it difficult to avoid. I play 5e204 and will DM it when it is my turn in the DM's chair once more, but I also play in a 5e game that has no intention of using any 2024 content. In that game it is tough, because just about everyone uses DnD Beyond for their character sheets and it is impossible to keep 2024 content from mixing in, which causes confusion for those that don't have all the rules memorized. They keep pointing to their character sheets saying, "but it says right here..." and then you have to explain to them that it is pointing to the 2024 explanation, not the 2014 explanation of that condition/ability/etc.
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
In the end, I do not dislike 5e2024 enough to not play it - and DnD Beyond has made it difficult to avoid. I play 5e204 and will DM it when it is my turn in the DM's chair once more, but I also play in a 5e game that has no intention of using any 2024 content. In that game it is tough, because just about everyone uses DnD Beyond for their character sheets and it is impossible to keep 2024 content from mixing in, which causes confusion for those that don't have all the rules memorized. They keep pointing to their character sheets saying, "but it says right here..." and then you have to explain to them that it is pointing to the 2024 explanation, not the 2014 explanation of that condition/ability/etc.
Yeah they really screwed the pooch with the implementation of the new rules into D&D beyond, Really wish there was a way to turn off the 2024 rules and just revert D&D beyond back to how it was for those who want to stick with the 2014 rules, would be much more customer friendly but pretty sure the approach they are taking is to not be customer friendly and force people to adopt the new ruleset whether they want to or not.
Of course it isn't impossible to create a character with the 2014 rules but the way it is implemented at the moment just makes it really unfriendly and a hassle to the point where one would wonder why we would even use D&D beyond in the first place.
Unfortunately, you won't be able to get an accurate poll here. There are too many people with multiple accounts so the numbers are always going to be skewed.
Really wish there was a way to turn off the 2024 rules and just revert D&D beyond back to how it was for those who want to stick with the 2014 rules, would be much more customer friendly but pretty sure the approach they are taking is to not be customer friendly and force people to adopt the new ruleset whether they want to or not.
Seconded! They really made a mess of this, and it's possibly a contributory factor as to why many are annoyed at the release of the new edition. Roll20 handled it just right, keeping the two rule sets mutually exclusive. I'd imagine you may also see your poll results skewed on account of many people having cancelled their subscriptions and/or abandoned these forums in protest over how the roll out was handled. That, or any of the other controversies in recent times. As such, many of who remain here are likely more supportive of the new edition than if you were to poll for interest with a wider group of D&D consumers/customers outside of DNDBeyond.
Unfortunately, you won't be able to get an accurate poll here. There are too many people with multiple accounts so the numbers are always going to be skewed.
Maybe not, I also figure that D&D beyond is in the process of alienating and pushing away those who liked the old rules and the results are going to be skewed towards the people who do like the new rules, but I am interested in hearing what people have to say, why they prefer one ruleset over the other.
I prefer the new rules to the old. I have fairly limited experience with the 2024 rules so far, but what I am seeing, I do like more. Classes are generally more powerful. The swing in power between the classes has been reduced. Bastions are pretty neat, though I have not gotten to use one yet. Emanation is a neat addition too. I have not encountered anything quite yet that made me look back at 2014 rules and click my tongue in disappointment. There are individual spells that had odd adjustments that I didn't like when I read them, but those are not enough to offset my feelings for the changes in the system as a whole and I see it as an overall improvement.
I prefer the 2024 rules mostly because I like that the subclasses all feel more balanced compared to each other instead of there being one clearly superior choice for each class. I also enjoy Weapon Masteries, changes to Backgrounds, the Feats, Species, and Bastions. There really isn't anything that I can think of that 2014 does that I would prefer over the 2024 version.
[Redacted] you should try to avoid adding bias to your polls. The use of the word “actually” in your polling question makes it very clear you dislike the new rule system and think others should also - the plain text reading is that you do not believe anyone "actually" could like the new system and are thus inquiring whether they exist. This introduces unnecessary bias into your polling, and you really should remove this from your question if you want to give some perception of impartiality.
if you actually look at the poll the question is simply "which do you prefer?". There is no bias whatsoever in the poll at all, all you have to do is select which version you prefer and optionally tell us in your post why you prefer that version.
Of course I have my own biases but I want to know if there are people who prefer the new ruleset and why which is why I created this thread.
[Redacted]
There are two things that I noted, which I believe Caerwyn is referring to.
Your title, which implies that you find it difficult to believe that anyone could like the new rules.
The other is calling it 5.5e, which is a dog whistle and your response may support this observation, as it follows the exact patterns we can see when dog whistles are intentionally used in discourse of trying to flip accusations of wrongdoing onto anyone airing criticism. You admit that you have biases against the 2024 rules, to the point that you refuse to call them by their proper name. You are however, perfectly happy to use a label that foments anger from those who already do not like the 2024 rules; they see it as a new edition and your label choice achieves a common rhetorical goal among rabble-rousers to create that cognitive link of replacement of something they love and therefore stoking the flames.
Anyway, maybe this was not your intention, so I thought it might be helpful to explain what I see that could have triggered that line of conversation. You can do whatever you want with it. I is not meant to be an attack on you but to give you perspective from a third party to that exchange.
can someone tell me where the line is drawn between the 2014 5e and the 2024 5e books??
i ask since both books label themselves as 5e... so if the company counts them as the same edition, i assume the division is created by the players and DMs out of personal preferences, nostalgia, avoiding change, etc... which leads to the possibility that individuals have a different understanding of what is considered one and not the other (despite them both being labelled as 5e)
also just a thought but didnt 2024-5e build upon 2014-5e foundations based of the input of players and DMs over the years... (atleast thats how i interpret the following pieces of text at start of book)
This revised version of it is a salute to all of you—those of you who’ve been playing D&D for years, those of you who’ve contributed to the game through your feedback, and those of you who are about to experience the joy of playing it for the first time. —Jeremy Crawford
What’s new in the 2024 Version?
This is the 2024 version of the fifth editionPlayer’s Handbook. If you’ve read the 2014 version, much of this book will feel familiar, since the fundamental rules of the game are the same. But the book contains many new or redesigned elements, and the versions of things in this book replace versions from older books. Here are highlights:
Streamlined Rules: The game’s rules have been streamlined and are now supported by a rules glossary. Easier Character Creation: Using chapter 2, making a character is easier than ever before. Enhanced Classes: In chapter 3, every class and subclass has been enhanced with new options. Reimagined Origins: Explored in chapter 4, a character’s origin is now defined by background and species, each of which has been redesigned. Expanded Feats: In chapter 5, feats have been redesigned, with many feats added. Upgraded Weapons, Tools, and Crafting: Mastery properties transform how weapon wielders use their weapons, and every character can enjoy new tool and crafting rules in chapter 6. Dazzling Spells:Chapter 7 bursts with new spells and old ones that have been enhanced.
as a side note personally consider questions asking "which do you prefer" are to influence people towards a mindset of "us vs them" to cause pointless drama
There are two things that I noted, which I believe Caerwyn is referring to.
Your title, which implies that you find it difficult to believe that anyone could like the new rules.
The other is calling it 5.5e, which is a dog whistle and your response may support this observation, as it follows the exact patterns we can see when dog whistles are intentionally used in discourse of trying to flip accusations of wrongdoing onto anyone airing criticism. You admit that you have biases against the 2024 rules, to the point that you refuse to call them by their proper name. You are however, perfectly happy to use a label that foments anger from those who already do not like the 2024 rules; they see it as a new edition and your label choice achieves a common rhetorical goal among rabble-rousers to create that cognitive link of replacement of something they love and therefore stoking the flames.
Anyway, maybe this was not your intention, so I thought it might be helpful to explain what I see that could have triggered that line of conversation. You can do whatever you want with it. I is not meant to be an attack on you but to give you perspective from a third party to that exchange.
So what exactly would you call the rules? I am not calling the new rules 5e because 5e was released in 2014, this is clearly a new ruleset with major changes to how "species" and classes work, it should have it's own title, previously when mid edition rule changes were made they were distinguished by being 2.5 or 3.5 ect, I don't see why this new ruleset should be any different?
I would call them what they are: 5e, both. One is the 2014 version and the other the 2024 version. This has been addressed ad nauseam. You seemed to lack understanding, which is why I responded in the first place, but this new answer seems to suggest you simply feigned ignorance. I know better now.
Apart from a handful of specific situations I think the 2024 rules are an improvement over the 2014 set. If nothing else the books are much easier to navigate and arranged more logically than the 2014 rules (the 2014 DMG was a particular nightmare to find anything). The only reason I've not implemented them in full at my table is that we're 4 years into a campaign and we (my players and I) have agreed to move to 2024 when we wrap up the current campaign.
The rules themselves, IE not comparing Subclasses etc?
Some things 2014e does better, other 2024e. My campaign is based in the framework of 2024e, then the things that don't work so well, I've changed back to 2014e (or homebrew, if we used homebrew in our last campaign for that rule). I couldn't tell you what proportion of each we use, but it's not an insignificant number of rules that we've changed.
Thus, I prefer and play a hybrid of the two. The poll doesn't allow for an accurate representation of what I play (and I think, the majority of players - I imagine most do something similar to what we do).
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The rules themselves, IE not comparing Subclasses etc?
I would say the whole package since classes and "species" have been reworked so I would say discussing the differences between subclasses and races and backgrounds are all valid to discuss.
On the whole I prefer 2024 for the reasons others have stated, especially that the classes and subclasses all feel more in line with each other and there's no longer a "right" choice when building a character. Also as Aurora says the books themselves are just much easier to use and more reader friendly. There's a few things I'm not keen on (like the Twin Spell metamagic no longer actually twinning a spell) so for those I still use 2014 rules but I'm running about 95% 2024 in my games
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Just curious how many people actually prefer the new ruleset over the old one?
[Redacted] you should try to avoid adding bias to your polls. The use of the word “actually” in your polling question makes it very clear you dislike the new rule system and think others should also - the plain text reading is that you do not believe anyone "actually" could like the new system and are thus inquiring whether they exist. This introduces unnecessary bias into your polling, and you really should remove this from your question if you want to give some perception of impartiality.
if you actually look at the poll the question is simply "which do you prefer?". There is no bias whatsoever in the poll at all, all you have to do is select which version you prefer and optionally tell us in your post why you prefer that version.
Of course I have my own biases but I want to know if there are people who prefer the new ruleset and why which is why I created this thread.
[Redacted]
I do a bit of an amalgamation of the two. Lots of things in the 2014 that i liked better or didn't brought forward, but some of the things in 5.5/2024 are pretty good.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
So what are some of the improvements in 5.5e that you like?
To be honest, all 5e needed was a few tweaks - instead every class/subclass was fed muscle milk. Rules that were simple are now a confusing mess. I have retyped this post several times, each time it ends up being a monstrously long post listing all the things that they made more confusing instead of less, and things they beefed up that didn't need beefing (seriously not every class needed to have its damage output doubled). So I think i'm just going to leave it to these few lines, if you really want to see an exhaustive list of everything wrong with 5e2024, there are plenty of other threads on that very topic (just look at the huge amount of confusion over how Nick works).
In the end, I do not dislike 5e2024 enough to not play it - and DnD Beyond has made it difficult to avoid. I play 5e204 and will DM it when it is my turn in the DM's chair once more, but I also play in a 5e game that has no intention of using any 2024 content. In that game it is tough, because just about everyone uses DnD Beyond for their character sheets and it is impossible to keep 2024 content from mixing in, which causes confusion for those that don't have all the rules memorized. They keep pointing to their character sheets saying, "but it says right here..." and then you have to explain to them that it is pointing to the 2024 explanation, not the 2014 explanation of that condition/ability/etc.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Yeah they really screwed the pooch with the implementation of the new rules into D&D beyond, Really wish there was a way to turn off the 2024 rules and just revert D&D beyond back to how it was for those who want to stick with the 2014 rules, would be much more customer friendly but pretty sure the approach they are taking is to not be customer friendly and force people to adopt the new ruleset whether they want to or not.
Of course it isn't impossible to create a character with the 2014 rules but the way it is implemented at the moment just makes it really unfriendly and a hassle to the point where one would wonder why we would even use D&D beyond in the first place.
Unfortunately, you won't be able to get an accurate poll here. There are too many people with multiple accounts so the numbers are always going to be skewed.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Seconded! They really made a mess of this, and it's possibly a contributory factor as to why many are annoyed at the release of the new edition. Roll20 handled it just right, keeping the two rule sets mutually exclusive. I'd imagine you may also see your poll results skewed on account of many people having cancelled their subscriptions and/or abandoned these forums in protest over how the roll out was handled. That, or any of the other controversies in recent times. As such, many of who remain here are likely more supportive of the new edition than if you were to poll for interest with a wider group of D&D consumers/customers outside of DNDBeyond.
Maybe not, I also figure that D&D beyond is in the process of alienating and pushing away those who liked the old rules and the results are going to be skewed towards the people who do like the new rules, but I am interested in hearing what people have to say, why they prefer one ruleset over the other.
I prefer the new rules to the old. I have fairly limited experience with the 2024 rules so far, but what I am seeing, I do like more. Classes are generally more powerful. The swing in power between the classes has been reduced. Bastions are pretty neat, though I have not gotten to use one yet. Emanation is a neat addition too. I have not encountered anything quite yet that made me look back at 2014 rules and click my tongue in disappointment. There are individual spells that had odd adjustments that I didn't like when I read them, but those are not enough to offset my feelings for the changes in the system as a whole and I see it as an overall improvement.
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I prefer the 2024 rules mostly because I like that the subclasses all feel more balanced compared to each other instead of there being one clearly superior choice for each class. I also enjoy Weapon Masteries, changes to Backgrounds, the Feats, Species, and Bastions. There really isn't anything that I can think of that 2014 does that I would prefer over the 2024 version.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
There are two things that I noted, which I believe Caerwyn is referring to.
Your title, which implies that you find it difficult to believe that anyone could like the new rules.
The other is calling it 5.5e, which is a dog whistle and your response may support this observation, as it follows the exact patterns we can see when dog whistles are intentionally used in discourse of trying to flip accusations of wrongdoing onto anyone airing criticism. You admit that you have biases against the 2024 rules, to the point that you refuse to call them by their proper name. You are however, perfectly happy to use a label that foments anger from those who already do not like the 2024 rules; they see it as a new edition and your label choice achieves a common rhetorical goal among rabble-rousers to create that cognitive link of replacement of something they love and therefore stoking the flames.
Anyway, maybe this was not your intention, so I thought it might be helpful to explain what I see that could have triggered that line of conversation. You can do whatever you want with it. I is not meant to be an attack on you but to give you perspective from a third party to that exchange.
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can someone tell me where the line is drawn between the 2014 5e and the 2024 5e books??
i ask since both books label themselves as 5e...
so if the company counts them as the same edition, i assume the division is created by the players and DMs out of personal preferences, nostalgia, avoiding change, etc...
which leads to the possibility that individuals have a different understanding of what is considered one and not the other (despite them both being labelled as 5e)
also just a thought but didnt 2024-5e build upon 2014-5e foundations based of the input of players and DMs over the years... (atleast thats how i interpret the following pieces of text at start of book)
as a side note personally consider questions asking "which do you prefer" are to influence people towards a mindset of "us vs them" to cause pointless drama
So what exactly would you call the rules? I am not calling the new rules 5e because 5e was released in 2014, this is clearly a new ruleset with major changes to how "species" and classes work, it should have it's own title, previously when mid edition rule changes were made they were distinguished by being 2.5 or 3.5 ect, I don't see why this new ruleset should be any different?
I would call them what they are: 5e, both. One is the 2014 version and the other the 2024 version. This has been addressed ad nauseam. You seemed to lack understanding, which is why I responded in the first place, but this new answer seems to suggest you simply feigned ignorance. I know better now.
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Apart from a handful of specific situations I think the 2024 rules are an improvement over the 2014 set. If nothing else the books are much easier to navigate and arranged more logically than the 2014 rules (the 2014 DMG was a particular nightmare to find anything). The only reason I've not implemented them in full at my table is that we're 4 years into a campaign and we (my players and I) have agreed to move to 2024 when we wrap up the current campaign.
The rules themselves, IE not comparing Subclasses etc?
Some things 2014e does better, other 2024e. My campaign is based in the framework of 2024e, then the things that don't work so well, I've changed back to 2014e (or homebrew, if we used homebrew in our last campaign for that rule). I couldn't tell you what proportion of each we use, but it's not an insignificant number of rules that we've changed.
Thus, I prefer and play a hybrid of the two. The poll doesn't allow for an accurate representation of what I play (and I think, the majority of players - I imagine most do something similar to what we do).
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I would say the whole package since classes and "species" have been reworked so I would say discussing the differences between subclasses and races and backgrounds are all valid to discuss.
On the whole I prefer 2024 for the reasons others have stated, especially that the classes and subclasses all feel more in line with each other and there's no longer a "right" choice when building a character. Also as Aurora says the books themselves are just much easier to use and more reader friendly. There's a few things I'm not keen on (like the Twin Spell metamagic no longer actually twinning a spell) so for those I still use 2014 rules but I'm running about 95% 2024 in my games