ARE there any non-Githyanki Gishes in 5e? Because the TTRPG slang version appears to not be recognized when it's inserted into feedback, due to Gish having a concrete meaning by WotC standards. Dollars to donuts that the people/AI summarizing the feedback get REALLY confused when "Gish" keeps coming up. I think this is a case of corporations(WizBro mode WotC or an AI used for summaries) wanting to be addressed with SEO-friendly terms, similarly to how Disney never allows "Star Wars Land" in official parlance, preferring the SEO-friendly "Star Wars:Galaxy's Edge".
Likewise, nitpicking a video's wording doesn't make it a lie. They may not have "put it back" 1:1, but they did focus on Hexblade's Cure not being All Hex, All The Time. It's just that, again "Curse" is a term that the current team seems to think needs to be defined by spells due to 10+ years of feedback telling them that newbies have trouble defining the difference between actions, reactions, free actions & bonus actions, and having to put names on such, 2024-wise, to make it casual-friendly. Thus "curse"=Magic Action=Spell" tends to be the way that they address confusion that still causes new/younger players to say "how many more bonus actions do I have". I know it's not an issue in these forums, but it is an issue with newer & younger players. So they want to avoid the action economy parlance issue in official materials(Crooked Moon has unofficial Curses, Jinxes & Hexes, & has caused new/younger players to not understand that those aren't Bestow Curse, Hex, etc)...so I see where they're coming from.
Gish is basically a termed used for Spellblade type classes/builds. The term was basically made famous because of the Gith Gish, which were Spellblades. That combine the Armor and Weapon Prowess of a Martial class, with Spellcasting. In 5e, those would be subclasses like Eldritch Knight, Bladesinger and College of Valor in particularly. Especially since they all gain the Extra Attack feature that lets them Attack with a Weapon AND Cast a Cantrip as part of their Attack Action.
As for the "Curse" term, I can see what you mean there, and that is valid I will not deny that. But considering the reasoning they said it that way, was due to immense negative player feedback about the splitting all the components of a Singular Feature into basically being individual features on its own. So they said they were "putting it back how it was" then left it broken down and split up, is the part that I am particularly calling them out on.
In 5e official parlance, there are no Gishes other then the Githyanki Gish stat block. I honestly don't think whomever/whatever's doing the feedback summaries knows about the term outside of that. It's either somebody(ies) not in tune with slang who and/or an AI summary at fault in this regard.
You're taking that "put it back" as a literal. They technically did so, just not in the most straightforward way. They got rid of the Hex dependency, which is what "putting it back the way it was" refers to here. They could of done it BETTER, but it's not a cut & dry lie.
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DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
..no Extra Attack that allows replacing attack with Cantrip...
Can you see the insanity of giving Warlock the ability to Eldritch Blast every round and make 2 weapon attacks?!
Valor Bard actually does let you do this, as it doesn't care which class' cantrip you use. You can even make a bow your Pact weapon to do the whole thing from range if you want 🙂
I do agree that letting the Warlock do this natively is probably a bridge too far even as a subclass feature, especially since that would then let them do THREE weapon attacks thanks to Thirsting Blade.
I mean Eldritch Knight also gets to do that, hell it gets Cantrip and upto 3 attacks at 20. Or 1 Attack, 1 Cantrip, 1 1st+ Lv Spell. Not including their Action Surge... Valor Bard Gets 1 Attack + 1 Cantrip of any Class, Wizard gets 1 Attack + 1 Wizard Cantrip.
Its a Warlock, Cantrips are kinda all they really have. No reason why the Hexblade couldn't also get 1 Attack + 1 Warlock Cantrip. If the issues is Thirsting Blade, then make the feature say you can't take Thirsting Blade if you are a Hexblade because it has this special Extra Attack. Though this current revision does have the OLD 2014 Eldritch Knight ability of Casting a Spell make Weapon as Bonus Action. But it only effects their Spell Slot spells. OR, hear me out, just alter Thirsting Blade to allow 1 Attack + 1 Cantrip.
Now would that second suggestion maybe make all Warlocks a little strong, maybe yeah. But considering Warlocks get VERY limited Spell Slots/Options, most of the other Warlock's probably aren't fighting with a weapon, and some of their features aren't super strong it wouldn't be too bad. Only one I could honestly being a problem is Arch-Fey and that's cause Free Misty Steps that are also suped up... its kind of the best Warlock right now, which granted Archfey needed some buffs and love so good for it.
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"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
The gish feature on the Hexblade is the level 6 Harrowing Hex ability. I'm not sure why it's limited to level 1+ spells, though (though it doesn't require a spell slot; you can do something like use a wand and attack with a sword).
The problem with mixing a cantrip with their attack sequence is that eldritch blast on a warlock with agonizing blast does radically more damage than any cantrip an eldritch knight or valor bard has access to.
ARE there any non-Githyanki Gishes in 5e? Because the TTRPG slang version appears to not be recognized when it's inserted into feedback, due to Gish having a concrete meaning by WotC standards. Dollars to donuts that the people/AI summarizing the feedback get REALLY confused when "Gish" keeps coming up. I think this is a case of corporations(WizBro mode WotC or an AI used for summaries) wanting to be addressed with SEO-friendly terms, similarly to how Disney never allows "Star Wars Land" in official parlance, preferring the SEO-friendly "Star Wars:Galaxy's Edge".
Likewise, nitpicking a video's wording doesn't make it a lie. They may not have "put it back" 1:1, but they did focus on Hexblade's Cure not being All Hex, All The Time. It's just that, again "Curse" is a term that the current team seems to think needs to be defined by spells due to 10+ years of feedback telling them that newbies have trouble defining the difference between actions, reactions, free actions & bonus actions, and having to put names on such, 2024-wise, to make it casual-friendly. Thus "curse"=Magic Action=Spell" tends to be the way that they address confusion that still causes new/younger players to say "how many more bonus actions do I have". I know it's not an issue in these forums, but it is an issue with newer & younger players. So they want to avoid the action economy parlance issue in official materials(Crooked Moon has unofficial Curses, Jinxes & Hexes, & has caused new/younger players to not understand that those aren't Bestow Curse, Hex, etc)...so I see where they're coming from.
Gish is basically a termed used for Spellblade type classes/builds. The term was basically made famous because of the Gith Gish, which were Spellblades. That combine the Armor and Weapon Prowess of a Martial class, with Spellcasting. In 5e, those would be subclasses like Eldritch Knight, Bladesinger and College of Valor in particularly. Especially since they all gain the Extra Attack feature that lets them Attack with a Weapon AND Cast a Cantrip as part of their Attack Action.
As for the "Curse" term, I can see what you mean there, and that is valid I will not deny that. But considering the reasoning they said it that way, was due to immense negative player feedback about the splitting all the components of a Singular Feature into basically being individual features on its own. So they said they were "putting it back how it was" then left it broken down and split up, is the part that I am particularly calling them out on.
In 5e official parlance, there are no Gishes other then the Githyanki Gish stat block. I honestly don't think whomever/whatever's doing the feedback summaries knows about the term outside of that. It's either somebody(ies) not in tune with slang who and/or an AI summary at fault in this regard.
You're taking that "put it back" as a literal. They technically did so, just not in the most straightforward way. They got rid of the Hex dependency, which is what "putting it back the way it was" refers to here. They could of done it BETTER, but it's not a cut & dry lie.
It still kind is, cause all they did was go "Okay its not while you have Hex active." then left everything else that people complained about. And added "If you are cursing a creature with hex or bestow curse or something else that curses, you can add this too". I'm sorry but the ONLY way that does equate to "Put it back to how it was in 2014" is its not attached to the Concentration Spell. Its STILL broken down and split into multiple features, and is NOT the Hexblade's Curse that people want, nor is it the Hexblade's Curse they said they were returning to.
But yes, I will concede and say you could be right, they could have meant it in the context you're suggesting. Which as far as I have seen online, is not how anybody is taking it. In fact that seems to be an annoyance to a lot of people, and not just from me. If that is what they meant, then they should have said "We are removing Hexblade's Curse's reliance on the Hex spell" and there would be 0 confusion.
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"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
The gish feature on the Hexblade is the level 6 Harrowing Hex ability. I'm not sure why it's limited to level 1+ spells, though (though it doesn't require a spell slot; you can do something like use a wand and attack with a sword).
The problem with mixing a cantrip with their attack sequence is that eldritch blast on a warlock with agonizing blast does radically more damage than any cantrip an eldritch knight or valor bard has access to.
One level of Warlock on Valor Bard for Eldritch Blast is significantly Easier than 6 levels in Bard for Hexblade to get Cantrip. 2 Levels if you want Agonizing Blast. Or if you are using Pen/Paper and NOT Dndbeyond, Eldritch Adept feat technically allows access to the Agonizing Blast on any Cantrip like how it is in 2024 ruleset. As the DDB Devs themselves have said the only reason Eldritch Adept doesn't have access to the 2024 Warlock invocation on DDB is the same reason 2024 Warlock doesn't have access to the Invocations that weren't updated. Is cause they can't code it to do so. And before you say "well you're not supposed to combine 2014 and 2024" correction, you are supposed to use 2024 Rules on anything that WAS updated to 2024. So anything that you could still access from 2014, LIKE Unupdated Invocations you are supposed to have access to. Part of the whole Backwards Compatability thing.
All I am saying is with the other Spellblades we have, there is no reason to take this version of Hexblade. For the singular feature that all the other Spellblade's have that it does not.
EDIT: Sorry for double posting, the first post was made before your post was made, and I didnt feel like editing the other reply to include a reply to you, cause that quote box is already getting too big.
One level of Warlock on Valor Bard for Eldritch Blast is significantly Easier than 6 levels in Bard for Hexblade to get Cantrip. 2 Levels if you want Agonizing Blast. Or if you are using Pen/Paper and NOT Dndbeyond, Eldritch Adept feat technically allows access to the Agonizing Blast on any Cantrip like how it is in 2024 ruleset.
Agonizing blast is only actually good on eldritch blast (because it adds to every attack). A valor bard/warlock setup is a fairly significant investment and gets you one cantrip plus one weapon attacks with no particular other buffs, whereas on a warlock you would be looking at one cantrip plus two weapon attacks and a somewhat better buff list (hex is not available via magical secrets).
Honestly, the core problem with the Hexblade is that it has no reason to exist -- the only reason it ever existed was because the 2014 blade pact warlock was nonfunctional, and they already fixed that.
One level of Warlock on Valor Bard for Eldritch Blast is significantly Easier than 6 levels in Bard for Hexblade to get Cantrip. 2 Levels if you want Agonizing Blast. Or if you are using Pen/Paper and NOT Dndbeyond, Eldritch Adept feat technically allows access to the Agonizing Blast on any Cantrip like how it is in 2024 ruleset.
Agonizing blast is only actually good on eldritch blast (because it adds to every attack). A valor bard/warlock setup is a fairly significant investment and gets you one cantrip plus one weapon attacks with no particular other buffs, whereas on a warlock you would be looking at one cantrip plus two weapon attacks and a somewhat better buff list (hex is not available via magical secrets).
Eldritch Blast requires Multiple attacks rolls to get that boost, multiple if not all of which could miss. Meanwhile Agonizing Blast say on.. True Strike, or Vengeful Blade or really any of the Blade spells. You get 1 Roll that deals Cantrip + Cha+ Your Weapon + Everything on your weapon + (possible secondary effect + Cha). Then if you are Valor, Eldritch or Bladesinger, you then get to attack with your Weapon and Everything on your weapon.
Hell throw in a Agonizing+Repelling Blasts on Booming Blade. You now get Booming Blade Bonus + Cha+ Your Weapon + Everything on your weapon + push away no save + (if they move + Cha) all for 1 singular attack roll. VS Multiple attack rolls of maybe 1d10 + Stat.
Or throw Agonizing Blast on Green-Flame Blade. You now get Green-Flame + Stat + Your Weapon + Everything on your weapon to 1 Target AND Green-Flame + stat + Cha to a second target.
Edited: Cause Agonizing blast states Damage rolls of that spell, which include all secondary effects of the blade spells that Eldritch Knight, Valor Bard and Bladesinger have access to.
I decided to go through the Tattooed Monk and rate all the tattoo options to see which ones I'd be likely to take on a build. (Legend:Great, Good, Situational, Bad). These are mostly off-the-cuff so I'm interested to hear other opinions or things I may have missed regarding the spells in question.
Beast - you get two of these. Remember you can swap any one tattoo (from any category) on a long rest as well.
Bat: Dancing Lights is, for lack of a better term, garbo - but concentration-free Blindsight for a minute as a bonus action on top of either Dodge+Disengage or Disengage+Dash is pretty nice. I'd rather the cantrip here be Light or Thaumaturgy, but even with a bad cantrip I would take this, and it's even useful out of combat for pitch darkness (even darkvision has a penalty there.)
Butterfly: Light and Silent Image are both decent, but there are better options.
Chameleon: Minor Illusion is a bit more useful than Silent Image I'd say (unlimited use and can do sounds). But this is offset by Disguise Self being too situational, especially on a class that likely sucks at lying / acting.
Crane: Gets the best cantrip in the game AND the best damage boost in the subclass. This is tattoo #1 90% of the time I'd say.
Horse: This is a pretty solid option. Message is great on a scout as well as in social situations (especially if your monk happens to be the party's lie detector), and Longstrider boosts your already impressive speed.
Spider: You're the class that arguably needs this cantrip the least, and Sap Mastery is meh. Let someone else be Mr. Fixit.
Tortoise: This is already weak when you get it and has no scaling. Skip.
Celestial - you get one of these.
Comet:Lmao. Next!
Crescent Moon: While this would be a must-have on many other classes, it's not as good for us. We're not working around the spell slot rule, we can get into or out of melee at half the cost, and we're not far from running up walls. This is third on my list.
Eclipse: This is great for scouting (lasts an hour and you're probably not concentrating on much else) and even useful in combat. Take this or Sunburst.
Sunburst: Somebody in the party needs to have this, and more people with it is actually a good thing. Take this or Eclipse. It's slightly lower since it's less likely to come up, but when it does you'll be glad you have it.
Nature - you get one of these. They're all elemental resists + a saving throw. These are probably the ones you'll be using the daily swap on while adventuring. I'd go with Wave for cold damage and Wis save advantage, or Volcano for Fire/Str, if stuck for other options.
Monster - you get one of these.
Beholder: Don't let the tiny flight speed fool you, you get +25 added to that for being a monk 17. That's 35ft of constant, concentration-free flight with hover, and you can BA dash that to 70 or double-dash that to 105 if you need to. Grapple somebody, SotW 70ft straight up and let go, repeat. Being a martial that can help your allies Counterspell nasty things is just icing on the cake.
Blink Dog: Blink lets you potentially dodge some nasty stuff (concentration-free), and yours is quickened. The downside is that you can't end it early, so be careful if you use this, but I'd still call it a net positive overall; everything you avoid while phased out (including legendary/lair stuff) is resources the party gets to save. Very few monsters can affect ethereal, even at high levels.
Displacer Beast: At this level illusions aren't working on a lot of enemies, and the few that it does work on are attacking often enough to burn through them quickly, so this is unlikely to last more than a couple of rounds let alone the full minute. Situational at best. The fact that it doesn't conflict with what you'll be doing most rounds anyway (flurrying) keeps it out of red, but even then it's expensive for what it does.
Guardian Naga: A cheat death is nice to have, but I'd rather have a tattoo that keeps me from needing one in the first place myself. Situational.
Beast Tattoos: Crane gets you a cantrip that doesn't stack with anyone else using the cantrip (though it's a good cantrip) and an extremely marginal damage bonus (at a 70% hit chance, normally flurry of blows hits 1.4 times. With this, the average is 1.463). It's the best damage boost because none of the others is a damage boost at all, but that's not saying much. I would probably default to Bat. Chameleon and Spider are both things it may be nice to have but you can probably afford to wait through a long rest to actually use.
Celestial Tattoos: I would tend to take Eclipse if the monk is the designated scout for the party, which is reasonably common. Actually, I would consider it even if the monk isn't the designated scout, since it can be cast on others. Agree comet is near useless. Crescent Moon is pretty situational, but it does let you get to some places that you can't just run to.
Nature Tattoos: you often have a decent idea of what elemental threats to expect, so in that case you'd use whatever matched the expected threat. If you don't know what threats to expect, I'd pick based on the save bonuses they grant, and most save or suck effects are Constitution or Wisdom (plus, given you already have Dex save proficiency and Evasion... you probably aren't scared of things with Dex saves to start with, not to mention that most fire and lightning threats will have Dex saves).
Monster Tattoos: Not convinced that Monk levels apply to alternate movement types; 'speed' unspecified usually means 'walk'. Not sure how effective counterspell is at this level. Really, none of these options are super exciting to me.
Well, while there is a lot of good in it, there is still plenty of reasons to not be happy, looking at Hexblade, does no one on the Dev team understand what a Hex Blade is? Get someone to by them a copy of Elric of Melniboné omnibus. Seriously to understand the hexblade, sometimes you have to look at the inspiration.
Was so interested to see what they would do with Arcane Archer, but it's already a damp squib. More uses? If you are basing it on your Intelligence modifier, a secondary stat at most, more likely tertiary stat priority, then you might get an additional use per short rest if you're lucky. A few more options and the damage boost is a start, but the fundamental problem with the subclass really doesn't seem to be addressed here. Maybe it might be unfair judging against a Battlemaster, but that will be the bar for many. Still too limited for me
While I think the subclass is lacking, being MAD is not an issue, Arcane Archer's int requirement is part of the balancing act of playing one, and always has been. No different than an Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster in that regard.
My issues are the nerfs to the actual Shots, but I guess they had to balance out that you can now use firearms. Just imagine using an antimatter rifle with Piercing Shot.
For info, Piercing Shot is a 30 line that is 1 foot wide. It hits everything in the line. The Antimatter Riffle base damage is 6d8 Necrotic, plus the shot gains two rolls of piercing Shot Damage. You can hit multiple creatures with this. At level 18 an Arcane Archer will do between 8 to 72 damage with this shot not counting crit damage. As a Fighter they get 4 attacks per turn. This means the Arcane Archer can do (Not counting crits) a max of 72+48+48+48 = 216 with a min of 26, the average would be close to 110 damage per turn. Note I'm not counting any other bonuses but the weapon damage, as those are variables. A smart player would stack a bunch of extra damage on this build.
Beast Tattoos: Crane gets you a cantrip that doesn't stack with anyone else using the cantrip (though it's a good cantrip) and an extremely marginal damage bonus (at a 70% hit chance, normally flurry of blows hits 1.4 times. With this, the average is 1.463). It's the best damage boost because none of the others is a damage boost at all, but that's not saying much. I would probably default to Bat. Chameleon and Spider are both things it may be nice to have but you can probably afford to wait through a long rest to actually use.
Celestial Tattoos: I would tend to take Eclipse if the monk is the designated scout for the party, which is reasonably common. Actually, I would consider it even if the monk isn't the designated scout, since it can be cast on others. Agree comet is near useless. Crescent Moon is pretty situational, but it does let you get to some places that you can't just run to.
Nature Tattoos: you often have a decent idea of what elemental threats to expect, so in that case you'd use whatever matched the expected threat. If you don't know what threats to expect, I'd pick based on the save bonuses they grant, and most save or suck effects are Constitution or Wisdom (plus, given you already have Dex save proficiency and Evasion... you probably aren't scared of things with Dex saves to start with, not to mention that most fire and lightning threats will have Dex saves).
Monster Tattoos: Not convinced that Monk levels apply to alternate movement types; 'speed' unspecified usually means 'walk'. Not sure how effective counterspell is at this level. Really, none of these options are super exciting to me.
1) Guidance stacking is often irrelevant for a class whose typical role (which you yourself even say in the next bullet) is scouting ahead of the group or otherwise being some distance removed from the others. If your party's source of Guidance is a clanky cleric for example, chances are the monk will not have them nearby to refresh it while poking around, and even if they are, they may be concentrating on something more impactful instead.. And the typical hit chance for a challenging foe is more in the 55-60% range. Note that Guidance is even better in 2024 because it buffs multiple rolls while youre off on your own instead of just one.
2) Agreed on Nature, pick the one you're likely to run into the next day. We found the black dragon's lair last night, maybe acid resist is good to have. Again, the ability to swap a tattoo each morning comes in handy here.
3) Per the rules glossary, changes to "speed" apply to all special speeds you have. Can't link as I'm on my phone but its there. As for Counterspell, even nerfed there are some really nasty spells out there where this is the most effective, well, counter. More importantly, counterspell is one of those abilities where more people in your party who have it is a good thing.
Question, do you think it would be OP to move Overwhelming Necrosis to Necromancy Spellbook, drop Grave Power, and turn Undead Thrall into a "permanent" pet that essentially uses the Summon Undead template?
Question, do you think it would be OP to move Overwhelming Necrosis to Necromancy Spellbook, drop Grave Power, and turn Undead Thrall into a "permanent" pet that essentially uses the Summon Undead template?
They’re pretty stingy about permanent pets for full casters- the biggest true permanent is a Chainlock familiar and the only other thing in the same neighborhood that comes to mind is the Wildfire subclass summon, which still only lasts an hour. Seems like it might be a hard line on subclass design for full casters.
Question, do you think it would be OP to move Overwhelming Necrosis to Necromancy Spellbook, drop Grave Power, and turn Undead Thrall into a "permanent" pet that essentially uses the Summon Undead template?
They’re pretty stingy about permanent pets for full casters- the biggest true permanent is a Chainlock familiar and the only other thing in the same neighborhood that comes to mind is the Wildfire subclass summon, which still only lasts an hour. Seems like it might be a hard line on subclass design for full casters.
You are probably right. I might put the idea into the feedback anyway.
I still see no reason for Arcane Archer to exist. A battle master can fill that niche just fine.
Remind me, which Battlemaster maneuvers Blind, Charm, Restrain, do AoE damage covering 20+ squares, or ignore full cover?
The shots are objectively stronger than what Battlemaster does.
While I agree with this, it still needs work. The dice scale too slowly. 2d6 bonus damage from a special shot is great in T1. 2d12 bonus damage in T4 is a footnote; its less than twice as much damage vs enemies that have gone up 8-10x in health. Never mind the fact that your number of shots stopped scaling at level 8.
I still see no reason for Arcane Archer to exist. A battle master can fill that niche just fine.
Remind me, which Battlemaster maneuvers Blind, Charm, Restrain, do AoE damage covering 20+ squares, or ignore full cover?
The shots are objectively stronger than what Battlemaster does.
While I agree with this, it still needs work. The dice scale too slowly. 2d6 bonus damage from a special shot is great in T1. 2d12 bonus damage in T4 is a footnote; its less than twice as much damage vs enemies that have gone up 8-10x in health. Never mind the fact that your number of shots stopped scaling at level 8.
The damage from Fighter options usually scales poorly at high levels- the damage bonus from the Rune Knight giant mode goes from d6 to d10 and the one rune that does damage doesn’t scale at all. Psi Warrior has a slightly larger initial resource pool, but it is much slower to refill and is pulled in more directions, although it does also add the INT mod when used for damage. Overall I think AA is on the typical curve, although they could stand to get a better refresh feature at level 15 though.
3) Per the rules glossary, changes to "speed" apply to all special speeds you have. Can't link as I'm on my phone but its there. As for Counterspell, even nerfed there are some really nasty spells out there where this is the most effective, well, counter. More importantly, counterspell is one of those abilities where more people in your party who have it is a good thing.
The problem is that by 17th level the vast majority of spellcasters are one or more of chaff, use spells as a rather small part of their attack routine, have a ridiculous con save (and monks don't have items that boost their spell save DC), or have a means of being immune, because a spellcasting enemy that doesn't have one of those things is useless.
Enchanter: Can now be an actual party face, Free Twin Spell on enchantments, gets a reaction that works on crits, free solid bonus 7th-level spell.
Necromancer: Now can buff Summon Undead with no ambiguity, is no longer hosed by Necrotic Resistance, Grim Harvest doesn't need you to land the killing blow and later buffs your minion and gets a cheat death.
Transmuter: Can change the stone's effect(s) on the fly even if an ally is holding the stone now, can put two effects on the stone instead of one, makes Enhance Ability actually useful in combat, free Twin Spell, and can heal and rez in a pinch.
Conjurer: What this one needs most is the ability to swap two other willing creatures, e.g. I summon something big and beefy like an Earth Elemental and then swap it into melee to save my injured Fighter to become a master battlefield tactician. Otherwise it's solid.
Combine that with the Savant buffs and these all stand up to their 2024 upgrades very well.
I disagree. For the transmutation wizard, unless I'm missing something, they've removed the minor alchemy ability. That's a pretty core ability for this subclass!
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In 5e official parlance, there are no Gishes other then the Githyanki Gish stat block. I honestly don't think whomever/whatever's doing the feedback summaries knows about the term outside of that. It's either somebody(ies) not in tune with slang who and/or an AI summary at fault in this regard.
You're taking that "put it back" as a literal. They technically did so, just not in the most straightforward way. They got rid of the Hex dependency, which is what "putting it back the way it was" refers to here. They could of done it BETTER, but it's not a cut & dry lie.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I mean Eldritch Knight also gets to do that, hell it gets Cantrip and upto 3 attacks at 20. Or 1 Attack, 1 Cantrip, 1 1st+ Lv Spell. Not including their Action Surge...
Valor Bard Gets 1 Attack + 1 Cantrip of any Class, Wizard gets 1 Attack + 1 Wizard Cantrip.
Its a Warlock, Cantrips are kinda all they really have. No reason why the Hexblade couldn't also get 1 Attack + 1 Warlock Cantrip. If the issues is Thirsting Blade, then make the feature say you can't take Thirsting Blade if you are a Hexblade because it has this special Extra Attack. Though this current revision does have the OLD 2014 Eldritch Knight ability of Casting a Spell make Weapon as Bonus Action. But it only effects their Spell Slot spells. OR, hear me out, just alter Thirsting Blade to allow 1 Attack + 1 Cantrip.
Now would that second suggestion maybe make all Warlocks a little strong, maybe yeah. But considering Warlocks get VERY limited Spell Slots/Options, most of the other Warlock's probably aren't fighting with a weapon, and some of their features aren't super strong it wouldn't be too bad. Only one I could honestly being a problem is Arch-Fey and that's cause Free Misty Steps that are also suped up... its kind of the best Warlock right now, which granted Archfey needed some buffs and love so good for it.
"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
The gish feature on the Hexblade is the level 6 Harrowing Hex ability. I'm not sure why it's limited to level 1+ spells, though (though it doesn't require a spell slot; you can do something like use a wand and attack with a sword).
The problem with mixing a cantrip with their attack sequence is that eldritch blast on a warlock with agonizing blast does radically more damage than any cantrip an eldritch knight or valor bard has access to.
It still kind is, cause all they did was go "Okay its not while you have Hex active." then left everything else that people complained about. And added "If you are cursing a creature with hex or bestow curse or something else that curses, you can add this too". I'm sorry but the ONLY way that does equate to "Put it back to how it was in 2014" is its not attached to the Concentration Spell. Its STILL broken down and split into multiple features, and is NOT the Hexblade's Curse that people want, nor is it the Hexblade's Curse they said they were returning to.
But yes, I will concede and say you could be right, they could have meant it in the context you're suggesting. Which as far as I have seen online, is not how anybody is taking it. In fact that seems to be an annoyance to a lot of people, and not just from me. If that is what they meant, then they should have said "We are removing Hexblade's Curse's reliance on the Hex spell" and there would be 0 confusion.
"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
One level of Warlock on Valor Bard for Eldritch Blast is significantly Easier than 6 levels in Bard for Hexblade to get Cantrip. 2 Levels if you want Agonizing Blast. Or if you are using Pen/Paper and NOT Dndbeyond, Eldritch Adept feat technically allows access to the Agonizing Blast on any Cantrip like how it is in 2024 ruleset. As the DDB Devs themselves have said the only reason Eldritch Adept doesn't have access to the 2024 Warlock invocation on DDB is the same reason 2024 Warlock doesn't have access to the Invocations that weren't updated. Is cause they can't code it to do so. And before you say "well you're not supposed to combine 2014 and 2024" correction, you are supposed to use 2024 Rules on anything that WAS updated to 2024. So anything that you could still access from 2014, LIKE Unupdated Invocations you are supposed to have access to. Part of the whole Backwards Compatability thing.
All I am saying is with the other Spellblades we have, there is no reason to take this version of Hexblade. For the singular feature that all the other Spellblade's have that it does not.
EDIT: Sorry for double posting, the first post was made before your post was made, and I didnt feel like editing the other reply to include a reply to you, cause that quote box is already getting too big.
"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
Agonizing blast is only actually good on eldritch blast (because it adds to every attack). A valor bard/warlock setup is a fairly significant investment and gets you one cantrip plus one weapon attacks with no particular other buffs, whereas on a warlock you would be looking at one cantrip plus two weapon attacks and a somewhat better buff list (hex is not available via magical secrets).
Honestly, the core problem with the Hexblade is that it has no reason to exist -- the only reason it ever existed was because the 2014 blade pact warlock was nonfunctional, and they already fixed that.
Eldritch Blast requires Multiple attacks rolls to get that boost, multiple if not all of which could miss. Meanwhile Agonizing Blast say on.. True Strike, or Vengeful Blade or really any of the Blade spells. You get 1 Roll that deals Cantrip + Cha+ Your Weapon + Everything on your weapon + (possible secondary effect + Cha). Then if you are Valor, Eldritch or Bladesinger, you then get to attack with your Weapon and Everything on your weapon.
Hell throw in a Agonizing+Repelling Blasts on Booming Blade. You now get Booming Blade Bonus + Cha+ Your Weapon + Everything on your weapon + push away no save + (if they move + Cha) all for 1 singular attack roll. VS Multiple attack rolls of maybe 1d10 + Stat.
Or throw Agonizing Blast on Green-Flame Blade. You now get Green-Flame + Stat + Your Weapon + Everything on your weapon to 1 Target AND Green-Flame + stat + Cha to a second target.
Edited: Cause Agonizing blast states Damage rolls of that spell, which include all secondary effects of the blade spells that Eldritch Knight, Valor Bard and Bladesinger have access to.
"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
I decided to go through the Tattooed Monk and rate all the tattoo options to see which ones I'd be likely to take on a build. (Legend: Great, Good, Situational, Bad). These are mostly off-the-cuff so I'm interested to hear other opinions or things I may have missed regarding the spells in question.
Beast - you get two of these. Remember you can swap any one tattoo (from any category) on a long rest as well.
Celestial - you get one of these.
Nature - you get one of these. They're all elemental resists + a saving throw. These are probably the ones you'll be using the daily swap on while adventuring. I'd go with Wave for cold damage and Wis save advantage, or Volcano for Fire/Str, if stuck for other options.
Monster - you get one of these.
Thoughts?
Hm.
Well, while there is a lot of good in it, there is still plenty of reasons to not be happy, looking at Hexblade, does no one on the Dev team understand what a Hex Blade is? Get someone to by them a copy of Elric of Melniboné omnibus. Seriously to understand the hexblade, sometimes you have to look at the inspiration.
While I think the subclass is lacking, being MAD is not an issue, Arcane Archer's int requirement is part of the balancing act of playing one, and always has been. No different than an Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster in that regard.
My issues are the nerfs to the actual Shots, but I guess they had to balance out that you can now use firearms. Just imagine using an antimatter rifle with Piercing Shot.
For info, Piercing Shot is a 30 line that is 1 foot wide. It hits everything in the line. The Antimatter Riffle base damage is 6d8 Necrotic, plus the shot gains two rolls of piercing Shot Damage. You can hit multiple creatures with this. At level 18 an Arcane Archer will do between 8 to 72 damage with this shot not counting crit damage. As a Fighter they get 4 attacks per turn. This means the Arcane Archer can do (Not counting crits) a max of 72+48+48+48 = 216 with a min of 26, the average would be close to 110 damage per turn. Note I'm not counting any other bonuses but the weapon damage, as those are variables. A smart player would stack a bunch of extra damage on this build.
1) Guidance stacking is often irrelevant for a class whose typical role (which you yourself even say in the next bullet) is scouting ahead of the group or otherwise being some distance removed from the others. If your party's source of Guidance is a clanky cleric for example, chances are the monk will not have them nearby to refresh it while poking around, and even if they are, they may be concentrating on something more impactful instead.. And the typical hit chance for a challenging foe is more in the 55-60% range. Note that Guidance is even better in 2024 because it buffs multiple rolls while youre off on your own instead of just one.
2) Agreed on Nature, pick the one you're likely to run into the next day. We found the black dragon's lair last night, maybe acid resist is good to have. Again, the ability to swap a tattoo each morning comes in handy here.
3) Per the rules glossary, changes to "speed" apply to all special speeds you have. Can't link as I'm on my phone but its there. As for Counterspell, even nerfed there are some really nasty spells out there where this is the most effective, well, counter. More importantly, counterspell is one of those abilities where more people in your party who have it is a good thing.
I still see no reason for Arcane Archer to exist. A battle master can fill that niche just fine.
Remind me, which Battlemaster maneuvers Blind, Charm, Restrain, do AoE damage covering 20+ squares, or ignore full cover?
The shots are objectively stronger than what Battlemaster does.
Question, do you think it would be OP to move Overwhelming Necrosis to Necromancy Spellbook, drop Grave Power, and turn Undead Thrall into a "permanent" pet that essentially uses the Summon Undead template?
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
They’re pretty stingy about permanent pets for full casters- the biggest true permanent is a Chainlock familiar and the only other thing in the same neighborhood that comes to mind is the Wildfire subclass summon, which still only lasts an hour. Seems like it might be a hard line on subclass design for full casters.
You are probably right. I might put the idea into the feedback anyway.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
While I agree with this, it still needs work. The dice scale too slowly. 2d6 bonus damage from a special shot is great in T1. 2d12 bonus damage in T4 is a footnote; its less than twice as much damage vs enemies that have gone up 8-10x in health. Never mind the fact that your number of shots stopped scaling at level 8.
The damage from Fighter options usually scales poorly at high levels- the damage bonus from the Rune Knight giant mode goes from d6 to d10 and the one rune that does damage doesn’t scale at all. Psi Warrior has a slightly larger initial resource pool, but it is much slower to refill and is pulled in more directions, although it does also add the INT mod when used for damage. Overall I think AA is on the typical curve, although they could stand to get a better refresh feature at level 15 though.
The problem is that by 17th level the vast majority of spellcasters are one or more of chaff, use spells as a rather small part of their attack routine, have a ridiculous con save (and monks don't have items that boost their spell save DC), or have a means of being immune, because a spellcasting enemy that doesn't have one of those things is useless.
I disagree. For the transmutation wizard, unless I'm missing something, they've removed the minor alchemy ability. That's a pretty core ability for this subclass!