Hi Mike, thanks for responding to questions and issues. Here's another one for you:
The sidebar in the Mythos Spells chapter refers to an optional rule in which you gain the Passion of "Power at Any Cost with a rating of +10."
Similarly, in the Mythos Tomes chapter, it says each tome provides a Dreadful Insight with a bonus. One example is "Insatiable Curiosity (+15)."
Neither the Passion Rating nor the Dreadful Insight bonus are defined anywhere in the book. My best guess is that the +5 you're supposed to roll when following a Passion / Dreadful Insight, as described in Chapter 1, is replaced with this rating / bonus, but nothing I have read clearly indicates this.
Will these changes added to the actual descriptions of the subclasses and spells and such or do we always have to come back to this post to reference it? I hope they get added because I'd hate to have to keep coming back to this all the time lol
Edit: I think Mike had a post saying that they will be talking with the DDB staff about making these changes so I hope that is the case
For anyone who may be on the fence with this product, it may be perhaps the worst third-party release on DDB yet. Not just for the numerous issues raised in this thread, but the class design being utterly abysmal in terms of thematics and balance.
You get a Barbarian with a better Aura of Protection than a Paladin at level 3, a Fighter who gets an action-free AOE heal and a legendary reaction (that can trigger two attacks!) at level 3, a Monk that can teleport other creatures with no saving throw anywhere (including into the air) at level 3, a Paladin that can double everyone's opportunity attacks, and a Sorcerer who gets around being a one-trick pony by deliberately cheating around the counters to said trick.
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator (Assassin rogue) Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I wish the mechanics of the Shadow Stalker subclass were clearer. It suffers from some of the same issues as the Echo Knight. Does the Shadowy Reflection occupy its space? Can it move through small spaces (hard to picture a shadow being stopped by prison bars)? Can it move further than 120 ft from you when not using the Shadow Scout feature? Can it be destroyed (it says it disappears if it takes any damage or is the target of an effect, but how can something that is classified as neither an object or creature and has no stats (until level 17) take damage or be targeted?)? What does “can manipulate an object” mean (pick a lock or someone’s pocket? Disarm a trap? I’m assuming none of these things because again if has no stats)? Can it fly (it’s not specified what directions it can move)? Do you have to maintain line of sight with it/see where it’s going to move it?
The Voorish Sign spell is slightly unclear too. it just specifies that when you would normally roll damage, you cause maximum damage instead, but doesn’t specify how long this lasts or what it applies to. Does it only affect the secondary spell you cast as part of Voorish Sign? Or can my Hexblade Warlock also use it on either or both of his sword attacks with Eldritch smite?
What I would like to do is:
BA - cast Voorish Sign, choosing Shadow of Moil as the secondary spell (making me heavily obscured, therefore granting advantage)
A - attack twice with advantage and eleven accuracy to attempt to crit, applying Eldritch smite on the crit for maximum damage.
In the book the range is 120ft. and has VS components, in the spell page it doesn't. Also is the spell correct? 3rd-level spell that does hard cc without a save?
In the book the range is 120ft. and has VS components, in the spell page it doesn't. Also is the spell correct? 3rd-level spell that does hard cc without a save?
I expect the spell page’s components are a mistake - as can be seen from some of the early pages of this thread, there were a number of errors with the implementation of this book. I would defer to the book’s text if I were you.
As for the lack of spell save, that is correct. This book heavily features spells without saves. There is a post by the author of the book on this thread that explicitly shows their views on balance seem to be focused exclusively on damage, ignoring things like the importance of saving throws, legendary resistances, the ability to end effects, or the simple reality that effects like crowd control are often more battle-determinative than damage. I know they are a well-respected content creator - and I rather like a lot of the monsters in this book - but their player facing options feel like bad homebrew and leave a lot to be desired. I am very reluctant to ban any content, and yet I still find spells like Curse of the Putrid Husk need exclusion.
In the book the range is 120ft. and has VS components, in the spell page it doesn't. Also is the spell correct? 3rd-level spell that does hard cc without a save?
I expect the spell page’s components are a mistake - as can be seen from some of the early pages of this thread, there were a number of errors with the implementation of this book. I would defer to the book’s text if I were you.
As for the lack of spell save, that is correct. This book heavily features spells without saves. There is a post by the author of the book on this thread that explicitly shows their views on balance seem to be focused exclusively on damage, ignoring things like the importance of saving throws, legendary resistances, the ability to end effects, or the simple reality that effects like crowd control are often more battle-determinative than damage. I know they are a well-respected content creator - and I rather like a lot of the monsters in this book - but their player facing options feel like bad homebrew and leave a lot to be desired. I am very reluctant to ban any content, and yet I still find spells like Curse of the Putrid Husk need exclusion.
There is an optional rule in the book that fixes these being unbalanced, by making the spells from this have a terrible price.
Optional Rule: Lure of Power
The Mythos offer power at the price of everything else. As an optional rule, when you expend a spell slot to cast a mythos spell, you must make a Wisdom saving throw equal to 15 plus the level of the spell slot expended. On a failed save, you gain the following Passion with a rating of +10.
Power at Any Cost
You have tasted the boundless power the Old Ones offer, and you can’t shake this lure. Whenever you cast a spell, you must use one of the spells presented here provided it is appropriate to the situation. If you have the opportunity to acquire and attune to a Mythos Tome, you seek to do so at any cost.
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DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
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Hi Mike, thanks for responding to questions and issues. Here's another one for you:
The sidebar in the Mythos Spells chapter refers to an optional rule in which you gain the Passion of "Power at Any Cost with a rating of +10."
Similarly, in the Mythos Tomes chapter, it says each tome provides a Dreadful Insight with a bonus. One example is "Insatiable Curiosity (+15)."
Neither the Passion Rating nor the Dreadful Insight bonus are defined anywhere in the book. My best guess is that the +5 you're supposed to roll when following a Passion / Dreadful Insight, as described in Chapter 1, is replaced with this rating / bonus, but nothing I have read clearly indicates this.
Will these changes added to the actual descriptions of the subclasses and spells and such or do we always have to come back to this post to reference it? I hope they get added because I'd hate to have to keep coming back to this all the time lol
Edit: I think Mike had a post saying that they will be talking with the DDB staff about making these changes so I hope that is the case
For anyone who may be on the fence with this product, it may be perhaps the worst third-party release on DDB yet. Not just for the numerous issues raised in this thread, but the class design being utterly abysmal in terms of thematics and balance.
You get a Barbarian with a better Aura of Protection than a Paladin at level 3, a Fighter who gets an action-free AOE heal and a legendary reaction (that can trigger two attacks!) at level 3, a Monk that can teleport other creatures with no saving throw anywhere (including into the air) at level 3, a Paladin that can double everyone's opportunity attacks, and a Sorcerer who gets around being a one-trick pony by deliberately cheating around the counters to said trick.
A +2 bonus to saving throws against spells only, and only while your Rage is up, is hardly better than a paladin's base aura
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator (Assassin rogue)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I wish the mechanics of the Shadow Stalker subclass were clearer. It suffers from some of the same issues as the Echo Knight. Does the Shadowy Reflection occupy its space? Can it move through small spaces (hard to picture a shadow being stopped by prison bars)? Can it move further than 120 ft from you when not using the Shadow Scout feature? Can it be destroyed (it says it disappears if it takes any damage or is the target of an effect, but how can something that is classified as neither an object or creature and has no stats (until level 17) take damage or be targeted?)? What does “can manipulate an object” mean (pick a lock or someone’s pocket? Disarm a trap? I’m assuming none of these things because again if has no stats)? Can it fly (it’s not specified what directions it can move)? Do you have to maintain line of sight with it/see where it’s going to move it?
The Voorish Sign spell is slightly unclear too. it just specifies that when you would normally roll damage, you cause maximum damage instead, but doesn’t specify how long this lasts or what it applies to. Does it only affect the secondary spell you cast as part of Voorish Sign? Or can my Hexblade Warlock also use it on either or both of his sword attacks with Eldritch smite?
What I would like to do is:
BA - cast Voorish Sign, choosing Shadow of Moil as the secondary spell (making me heavily obscured, therefore granting advantage)
A - attack twice with advantage and eleven accuracy to attempt to crit, applying Eldritch smite on the crit for maximum damage.
Curse of the Putrid Husk
In the book the range is 120ft. and has VS components, in the spell page it doesn't.
Also is the spell correct? 3rd-level spell that does hard cc without a save?
I expect the spell page’s components are a mistake - as can be seen from some of the early pages of this thread, there were a number of errors with the implementation of this book. I would defer to the book’s text if I were you.
As for the lack of spell save, that is correct. This book heavily features spells without saves. There is a post by the author of the book on this thread that explicitly shows their views on balance seem to be focused exclusively on damage, ignoring things like the importance of saving throws, legendary resistances, the ability to end effects, or the simple reality that effects like crowd control are often more battle-determinative than damage. I know they are a well-respected content creator - and I rather like a lot of the monsters in this book - but their player facing options feel like bad homebrew and leave a lot to be desired. I am very reluctant to ban any content, and yet I still find spells like Curse of the Putrid Husk need exclusion.
There is an optional rule in the book that fixes these being unbalanced, by making the spells from this have a terrible price.
Optional Rule: Lure of Power
The Mythos offer power at the price of everything else. As an optional rule, when you expend a spell slot to cast a mythos spell, you must make a Wisdom saving throw equal to 15 plus the level of the spell slot expended. On a failed save, you gain the following Passion with a rating of +10.
Power at Any Cost
You have tasted the boundless power the Old Ones offer, and you can’t shake this lure. Whenever you cast a spell, you must use one of the spells presented here provided it is appropriate to the situation. If you have the opportunity to acquire and attune to a Mythos Tome, you seek to do so at any cost.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.