The Lucky origin feat gives you advantage on demand a number of times per long rest equal to your proficiency bonus.
The Scion of the Three Rogue allows you to teleport and (likely) sneak attack a creature that goes to half HP when it isn't your turn, enabling a second sneak attack in the round.
Then you might want to consider feats like Sentinel or something like Zhentarim Tactics allows you to make an opportunity attack against a creature that hits you, also enabling a sneak attack when it isn't your turn. Zhentraim Tactics requires you to also have Zhentarim Ruffian as an origin feat, so the only way to make it work with Lucky is to be human. Sentinel allows an opportunity attack when a creature attacks someone other than you, so it doesn't conflict with Zhent Tactics, although at lower levels that's an either/or thing rather than and. Feats also don't kick in until level 4, but I am working on the belief that you will get to 4 eventually.
You really want to boost your damage with a Rogue, you need to be able to make more than one sneak attack in a round. This isn't 100% reliable, so you want multiple ways to make it happen if possible.
And, how would you suggest that I get a second sneak attack?
Opportunity attacks. (Or other attacks happening on someone else's turn.)
Both the suggested subclass and the feats I listed all are about getting opportunity attacks (or at least a chance to go on someone else's turn). Since the opportunity attack happens on a different turn, it qualifies for a sneak attack.
Sadly, at the table I play at, I cannot use a subclass not in the core rules (or Fizban's, but Fizban's doesn't have subclasses)
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Hello! Call meTana. My pronouns are She/Her. I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace I will mother you if you are being stupid. ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll] I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
I'll presume that also means Feats and spells must come from the core rules.
A Circle of the Seas druid with the Warden focus will have medium armor and a shield for survivability, and when using their wild shape for the subclass feature, they can use the bonus action to force a Can save or the target takes 3d6 cold damage (1d6 per point of Wis modifier). Use either an origin feat or a species selection to get the True Strike cantrip to attack with your wisdom. True strike goes up a d6 per damage tier, at level 7 you add 1d8 to your weapon attacks, and the bonus action damage will eventually be 5d6 (as well as gaining more range). Add in an emanation spell when you get it, and you will be doing some pretty high potential melee damage for a full spellcaster.
A Vengeance Paladin working with 2 weapons can use Hunter's Mark for an extra 1d6 per attack, and has smites plus a channel divinity to grant themselves advantage if needed. Rangers can do something similar, only without the cool bennies of a Paladin. For sustained dps without using a pet, Fey Wanderer gives an additional d4 once per round without a limit on times per day (unlike the Gloom Stalker now has).
I'll presume that also means Feats and spells must come from the core rules.
A Circle of the Seas druid with the Warden focus will have medium armor and a shield for survivability, and when using their wild shape for the subclass feature, they can use the bonus action to force a Can save or the target takes 3d6 cold damage (1d6 per point of Wis modifier). Use either an origin feat or a species selection to get the True Strike cantrip to attack with your wisdom. True strike goes up a d6 per damage tier, at level 7 you add 1d8 to your weapon attacks, and the bonus action damage will eventually be 5d6 (as well as gaining more range). Add in an emanation spell when you get it, and you will be doing some pretty high potential melee damage for a full spellcaster.
A Vengeance Paladin working with 2 weapons can use Hunter's Mark for an extra 1d6 per attack, and has smites plus a channel divinity to grant themselves advantage if needed. Rangers can do something similar, only without the cool bennies of a Paladin. For sustained dps without using a pet, Fey Wanderer gives an additional d4 once per round without a limit on times per day (unlike the Gloom Stalker now has).
Wait
4d6+2d8+8 = 31 might beat?
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Hello! Call meTana. My pronouns are She/Her. I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace I will mother you if you are being stupid. ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll] I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
I'll presume that also means Feats and spells must come from the core rules.
A Circle of the Seas druid with the Warden focus will have medium armor and a shield for survivability, and when using their wild shape for the subclass feature, they can use the bonus action to force a Can save or the target takes 3d6 cold damage (1d6 per point of Wis modifier). Use either an origin feat or a species selection to get the True Strike cantrip to attack with your wisdom. True strike goes up a d6 per damage tier, at level 7 you add 1d8 to your weapon attacks, and the bonus action damage will eventually be 5d6 (as well as gaining more range). Add in an emanation spell when you get it, and you will be doing some pretty high potential melee damage for a full spellcaster.
A Vengeance Paladin working with 2 weapons can use Hunter's Mark for an extra 1d6 per attack, and has smites plus a channel divinity to grant themselves advantage if needed. Rangers can do something similar, only without the cool bennies of a Paladin. For sustained dps without using a pet, Fey Wanderer gives an additional d4 once per round without a limit on times per day (unlike the Gloom Stalker now has).
Wait
4d6+2d8+8 = 31 might beat?
IT DOES!!!!!!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hello! Call meTana. My pronouns are She/Her. I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace I will mother you if you are being stupid. ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll] I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
I'll presume that also means Feats and spells must come from the core rules.
A Circle of the Seas druid with the Warden focus will have medium armor and a shield for survivability, and when using their wild shape for the subclass feature, they can use the bonus action to force a Can save or the target takes 3d6 cold damage (1d6 per point of Wis modifier). Use either an origin feat or a species selection to get the True Strike cantrip to attack with your wisdom. True strike goes up a d6 per damage tier, at level 7 you add 1d8 to your weapon attacks, and the bonus action damage will eventually be 5d6 (as well as gaining more range). Add in an emanation spell when you get it, and you will be doing some pretty high potential melee damage for a full spellcaster.
A Vengeance Paladin working with 2 weapons can use Hunter's Mark for an extra 1d6 per attack, and has smites plus a channel divinity to grant themselves advantage if needed. Rangers can do something similar, only without the cool bennies of a Paladin. For sustained dps without using a pet, Fey Wanderer gives an additional d4 once per round without a limit on times per day (unlike the Gloom Stalker now has).
Wait
4d6+2d8+8 = 31 might beat?
IT DOES!!!!!!
But the barb build is 6d6?
29
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Hello! Call meTana. My pronouns are She/Her. I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace I will mother you if you are being stupid. ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll] I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
Not a Rogue, but if you’re looking for high damage at a fairly low level go with a Noble Genie Paladin with mastery in scimitars (1d6) for nick, two weapon fighting as your fighting style (1d6), make dex your highest stat followed by cha (for the bonus AC) and use Efreeti’s Fury for fire damage bonus (2d4) every time you land a smite (2d8). And since Smite and E.F. Scale as you level up/gain spell slots and you eventually learn Conjure Minor Elemental that number of damage die just keeps going up
The Ammunition property does say you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon.
Yes, correct, but the Loading property doesn't affect the Ammunition property
I don't think so, at least, totally a DM choice thing
The two properties don't affect each other, but a hand crossbow has both, and is subject to both restrictions. This makes it challenging to dual-wield hand crossbows without the Crossbow Expert feat (which eliminates both restrictions).
Wait, couldn't you, with a drawn loaded weapon, fire that one, and with the attack action, draw the other one, and fire that one?
Mechanically, there's no such thing as a "loaded weapon". You need ammunition and a free hand to attack with a weapon with the Ammunition property.
However, you can attack twice with hand crossbows without feats. (But no more than twice, because of the Loading property.)
Start with a hand crossbow drawn
Attack with it, use your weapon interaction from the attack action to stow it
Draw crossbow with your free object interaction
Attack as a bonus action due to the Light property
The Eloquence bard pretty much breaks low level games over it's knee if you are dealing with anything that has the ability to communicate; Assuming you are using the standard array, you can be putting a character that has a +7 to persuasion and/or deception checks and *can't* crit fail as any roll under a ten becomes a ten due to silver tongue... and then you staple the +7 to it and you are looking at a range of 17-27 for your dice rolls.
And if you do run into trouble you're bardic inspiration can be used for insidious words wherein you staple a penalty to the target's next saving throw equal to your BID... and you can stack bane on top of that so the target has -1d4 -1d6 which winds up averaging out to a -6 for either another player or yourself.
Alternately, if you want to be OP in a way that wangs the game's balance while being a pacifist go for this:
Kobold (volo version) Mastermind Rogue.
With this build, you aren't going to be about that damage exactly but rather an Advantage factory. From being a Kobold, you get grovel, cower and beg which is a once per short rest ability that grants advantage to all of your allies attack rolls against enemies within 10 feet of you when you use this until the start of your next turn which in and of itself is hecking strong. That having been said the real meat and potatoes from this is that as a mastermind you can help as a bonus action at a range of 30 feet, which means you can conceivably be giving advantage to two people per turn and you can still do all the classic rogue things like sneaking and disarming traps.
To all of you, except Ji8e, I can't use anything not in the core rules, sadly
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Hello! Call meTana. My pronouns are She/Her. I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace I will mother you if you are being stupid. ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll] I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
Eloquence is only broken if the DM doesn’t know how to say “that’s not possible”; a high roll isn’t intended to convince someone they’re a toad, a king to abdicate for some random adventurer, etc. You can more reliably hit the intended story beats, but frankly if it breaks the campaign that’s on the DM.
Fnally getting the time to comment here. I haven’t looked at the core rules in years so this is based on the ‘24 PHB - using only the classes, subclasses, feats, etc from it. I’m also limiting my discussion to levels 3-5 as that seems to be the OP’s focus. Rogue with hand crossbow(s) - at level 3 it’s singular so 1 shot ( probably with advantage) and from behind the front line. Yes it’s a light weapon but, at this level, your limited to either 1 shot each round from a single xbow because of the loading property or 2 shots every other round with 2 x bows using the intervening round to reload both bows. Neither is going to be very effective. At level 4 you can take xbow xpertise which allows you to ignore the reloading problem as well as allowing you to fire from melee range ( but why given your AC). Now you can really use the light property to get 2 shots per round so 85% chance to hit (advantage) x 2 attacks , one dealing 1 D6 and the other dealing 3d6 so .85x 3.5 + .85 x (3(3.5))=11.9 dpr.at level 3 this was .85 x (3(3.5))=8.925 dpr and at L5 it becomes (.85 x 3.5) + (.85 x (4(3.5))=14.875 dpr. So that is our baseline for comparisons.
Circle of the seas Druid: the big damage here is your emanation using one of your 2 wildshapes. To me this is problematic. Yes you get a (single) wildshape after each short rest (1 hour) but that is still a highly limited resource. Using the emanation gives you at best an hour of time while the wildshapes would give you 7.5 (L3) to 12.5 (L5) hours of Wilde shape. Further the emanation is a suck or save Con save so figure a better than even chance to save. So .5 x (3(3.5)=5.25 - not actually even as good as the rogue.
Paladin - Dex based, 2 light weapons. Now we might be getting somewhere. I’m not going to look at all the possible Paladin builds just this one. So, two weapon fighting style, short sword and scimitar, smites (etc). Level 3: fighting style adds stat bonus to damage of each attack, with Nick and vex you get advantage on the second attack 65% of the time and one smite for 2d8 each round. So ( (.65 x (3.5+3) + (.85 x (6.5+13.5)))+(.35 x (.65 x (6.5+13.5)))=25.775 for an individual attack at level 3. However, you can only do this 4 times before you run out of smites. After that it’s ((.65 x 6.5) + (.85 x 6.5)) + (.35 x (.65 x 6.5))=11.229. So about equal to the L4 ranger. At L4 you can take dual wielding getting a third attack for .65 x 6.5=4.225 so about 30 dpr for 4 attacks then 15.5 dpr from there on out. At level 5 you get both extra attack and 3 more spell slots so 35dpr for 6 rounds then 20 dpr for the rest of the day. Certainly better than the rogue.
Ranger - Dex based, 2 weapon fighting, light weapons. Here the choice of subclass matters. While fey wanderer gets +1d4 psychic damage once a round, hunter with colossus slayer is probably better overall with + 1d8 on one attack after the foe is damaged. In addition you get 2 free hunter’s marks along with 3 slot castings each lasting an hour. Yes you sometimes have to use a bonus action to switch targets but (especially) at level 3 that isn’t a big deal. So the fighting style gives you +3 to each hit, then hunters marks along with giving an additional d6 to each hit and finally colossus slayer giving a d8 to one hit. So: (((.65 x 10) + (.85 x(10+4.5))+ .65 x 14.5))=28.25- slightly better than the Paladin with smites but useable for far longer. Like the Paladin at level 4 you can take dual w for a 3 rd attack (+6.5 dpr) - 34.75 dpr and L5 gives extra attack for yet another attack (+6.5 dpr) - 41 dpr the best so far. Some paladins can get hunters marks along with but using it reduces the number of smites and doesn’t bring the smiteless dpr up to ranger levels . So if what you want is max dpr it looks like your best bet pure 2024 PHB is probably a hunter ranger using light weapons between L1-6.
Fnally getting the time to comment here. I haven’t looked at the core rules in years so this is based on the ‘24 PHB - using only the classes, subclasses, feats, etc from it. I’m also limiting my discussion to levels 3-5 as that seems to be the OP’s focus.
*Snipped*
Can I ask what the DPR on a light property bezerker barb?
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Hello! Call meTana. My pronouns are She/Her. I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace I will mother you if you are being stupid. ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll] I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
A 2 weapon ranger knocks out a lot of damage at low levels. two weapon fighting style, nick, hunters mark, it adds up to a lot of damage.
4d6 just from base two weapon combat and Hunter's Mark alone. A Fey Wanderer adds an additional 1d4 per round, while a Gloom Stalker can have more burst damage they can't sustain that damage over the course of an adventuring day (no issue if your group does the 15 minute adventuring day bit).
And additional 2d6 comes into play when extra attack comes on line, and if your group uses the 2 Off-Hand attacks with the 2 Weapon Fighting feat that's an additional 2d6. Plus the fighting style allows off hand attacks to benefit from the stat modifier.
So, with a Fey Wanderer at level 3 that's 4d6+6, plus 1d4. At level 4 that will be 6d6 +12 + 1d4 (if use of the bonus action for a second off hand attack is allowed - the main designer said sure but your DM might disagree), and at level 6 it's 8d6 + 16 + 1d4. If your DM insists that Nick only prevents the off hand attack from using the bonus action but it's still limited to once per round, then 6d6 + 12 + 1d4 doesn't come on until level 6.
That's only working with the absolute basics of a Fey Wanderer Ranger, a 17 dexterity to begin with, and the Dual Wilder feat at level 4.
Note, your DM could also take a middle ground and rule that the second off hand attack from using Dual Wielder with your bonus action does NOT get the benefit of your Stat bonus to damage while still allowing the attack to take place. Neither I, nor anyone posting here (probably) is making the decisions as to what is allowed and how, so talk to your DM before making any assumptions.
I am curious how the adventurers league thing uses nick. But in theory they follow the rules.
IMO the rules are not clear which is a shame, why they don't have more interaction examples with abilities I will never know. But as far as I can tell it can be read to add extra attack and the designers seem to have indicated that was also the intent. So for my table at least that is how we have rolled. Again at low levels it makes the ranger a power house, but as they stop getting extra attacks it seems to stagnate there.
I am curious how the adventurers league thing uses nick. But in theory they follow the rules.
IMO the rules are not clear which is a shame, why they don't have more interaction examples with abilities I will never know. But as far as I can tell it can be read to add extra attack and the designers seem to have indicated that was also the intent. So for my table at least that is how we have rolled. Again at low levels it makes the ranger a power house, but as they stop getting extra attacks it seems to stagnate there.
The Nick rules are clear enough. It doesn't give you an extra attack. It changes the timing of the extra attack you get from Light, freeing up your bonus action.
The way you get an extra attack is to also have the Dual Wielder feat.
Fnally getting the time to comment here. I haven’t looked at the core rules in years so this is based on the ‘24 PHB - using only the classes, subclasses, feats, etc from it. I’m also limiting my discussion to levels 3-5 as that seems to be the OP’s focus.
*Snipped*
Can I ask what the DPR on a light property bezerker barb?
I ask again
Because today I played one of those and rolled 56 damage at level 3, granted I did crit, but still
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Hello! Call meTana. My pronouns are She/Her. I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace I will mother you if you are being stupid. ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll] I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
I am curious how the adventurers league thing uses nick. But in theory they follow the rules.
IMO the rules are not clear which is a shame, why they don't have more interaction examples with abilities I will never know. But as far as I can tell it can be read to add extra attack and the designers seem to have indicated that was also the intent. So for my table at least that is how we have rolled. Again at low levels it makes the ranger a power house, but as they stop getting extra attacks it seems to stagnate there.
The Nick rules are clear enough. It doesn't give you an extra attack. It changes the timing of the extra attack you get from Light, freeing up your bonus action.
The way you get an extra attack is to also have the Dual Wielder feat.
If it was clear there would not be 600 pages of arguments on how it worked. Many people don't think the dual wielder feat adds anything to it so you only get 2 attacks with or without it when you have nick. Hence why they need examples on how things work and work together.
If you can only make an off-hand attack with the Dual Wielder feat then anyone who takes the Two Weapon Fighting feat at level 2 is going to be very upset to learn they wasted a choice for two levels minimum.
Aaaaand, looking it up, I can't find the rule that states a character can make an attack with an off hand weapon using a bonus action in the 2024 rules. I can find it in the 2014 rules, but not the 2024 books.
It could certainly be interpreted that without the proper feat, a character can't fight with two weapons.
My group will probably rule that this was a brain fart from the design team and run it like it was in 2014. Although if I am mistaken, please let me know where it is in the 2024 rulebook. With the exact page number so I can see it in my own book.
Sadly, at the table I play at, I cannot use a subclass not in the core rules (or Fizban's, but Fizban's doesn't have subclasses)
Hello! Call me Tana.
My pronouns are She/Her.
I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace
I will mother you if you are being stupid.
ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll]
I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
I'll presume that also means Feats and spells must come from the core rules.
A Circle of the Seas druid with the Warden focus will have medium armor and a shield for survivability, and when using their wild shape for the subclass feature, they can use the bonus action to force a Can save or the target takes 3d6 cold damage (1d6 per point of Wis modifier). Use either an origin feat or a species selection to get the True Strike cantrip to attack with your wisdom. True strike goes up a d6 per damage tier, at level 7 you add 1d8 to your weapon attacks, and the bonus action damage will eventually be 5d6 (as well as gaining more range). Add in an emanation spell when you get it, and you will be doing some pretty high potential melee damage for a full spellcaster.
A Vengeance Paladin working with 2 weapons can use Hunter's Mark for an extra 1d6 per attack, and has smites plus a channel divinity to grant themselves advantage if needed. Rangers can do something similar, only without the cool bennies of a Paladin. For sustained dps without using a pet, Fey Wanderer gives an additional d4 once per round without a limit on times per day (unlike the Gloom Stalker now has).
Wait
4d6+2d8+8 = 31 might beat?
Hello! Call me Tana.
My pronouns are She/Her.
I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace
I will mother you if you are being stupid.
ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll]
I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
IT DOES!!!!!!
Hello! Call me Tana.
My pronouns are She/Her.
I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace
I will mother you if you are being stupid.
ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll]
I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
But the barb build is 6d6?
29
Hello! Call me Tana.
My pronouns are She/Her.
I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace
I will mother you if you are being stupid.
ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll]
I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
Not a Rogue, but if you’re looking for high damage at a fairly low level go with a Noble Genie Paladin with mastery in scimitars (1d6) for nick, two weapon fighting as your fighting style (1d6), make dex your highest stat followed by cha (for the bonus AC) and use Efreeti’s Fury for fire damage bonus (2d4) every time you land a smite (2d8). And since Smite and E.F. Scale as you level up/gain spell slots and you eventually learn Conjure Minor Elemental that number of damage die just keeps going up
Mechanically, there's no such thing as a "loaded weapon". You need ammunition and a free hand to attack with a weapon with the Ammunition property.
However, you can attack twice with hand crossbows without feats. (But no more than twice, because of the Loading property.)
The Eloquence bard pretty much breaks low level games over it's knee if you are dealing with anything that has the ability to communicate; Assuming you are using the standard array, you can be putting a character that has a +7 to persuasion and/or deception checks and *can't* crit fail as any roll under a ten becomes a ten due to silver tongue... and then you staple the +7 to it and you are looking at a range of 17-27 for your dice rolls.
And if you do run into trouble you're bardic inspiration can be used for insidious words wherein you staple a penalty to the target's next saving throw equal to your BID... and you can stack bane on top of that so the target has -1d4 -1d6 which winds up averaging out to a -6 for either another player or yourself.
Alternately, if you want to be OP in a way that wangs the game's balance while being a pacifist go for this:
Kobold (volo version) Mastermind Rogue.
With this build, you aren't going to be about that damage exactly but rather an Advantage factory. From being a Kobold, you get grovel, cower and beg which is a once per short rest ability that grants advantage to all of your allies attack rolls against enemies within 10 feet of you when you use this until the start of your next turn which in and of itself is hecking strong. That having been said the real meat and potatoes from this is that as a mastermind you can help as a bonus action at a range of 30 feet, which means you can conceivably be giving advantage to two people per turn and you can still do all the classic rogue things like sneaking and disarming traps.
To all of you, except Ji8e, I can't use anything not in the core rules, sadly
Hello! Call me Tana.
My pronouns are She/Her.
I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace
I will mother you if you are being stupid.
ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll]
I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
Eloquence is only broken if the DM doesn’t know how to say “that’s not possible”; a high roll isn’t intended to convince someone they’re a toad, a king to abdicate for some random adventurer, etc. You can more reliably hit the intended story beats, but frankly if it breaks the campaign that’s on the DM.
Fnally getting the time to comment here. I haven’t looked at the core rules in years so this is based on the ‘24 PHB - using only the classes, subclasses, feats, etc from it. I’m also limiting my discussion to levels 3-5 as that seems to be the OP’s focus.
Rogue with hand crossbow(s) - at level 3 it’s singular so 1 shot ( probably with advantage) and from behind the front line. Yes it’s a light weapon but, at this level, your limited to either 1 shot each round from a single xbow because of the loading property or 2 shots every other round with 2 x bows using the intervening round to reload both bows. Neither is going to be very effective. At level 4 you can take xbow xpertise which allows you to ignore the reloading problem as well as allowing you to fire from melee range ( but why given your AC). Now you can really use the light property to get 2 shots per round so 85% chance to hit (advantage) x 2 attacks , one dealing 1 D6 and the other dealing 3d6 so .85x 3.5 + .85 x (3(3.5))=11.9 dpr.at level 3 this was .85 x (3(3.5))=8.925 dpr and at L5 it becomes (.85 x 3.5) + (.85 x (4(3.5))=14.875 dpr. So that is our baseline for comparisons.
Circle of the seas Druid: the big damage here is your emanation using one of your 2 wildshapes. To me this is problematic. Yes you get a (single) wildshape after each short rest (1 hour) but that is still a highly limited resource. Using the emanation gives you at best an hour of time while the wildshapes would give you 7.5 (L3) to 12.5 (L5) hours of Wilde shape. Further the emanation is a suck or save Con save so figure a better than even chance to save. So .5 x (3(3.5)=5.25 - not actually even as good as the rogue.
Paladin - Dex based, 2 light weapons. Now we might be getting somewhere. I’m not going to look at all the possible Paladin builds just this one. So, two weapon fighting style, short sword and scimitar, smites (etc). Level 3: fighting style adds stat bonus to damage of each attack, with Nick and vex you get advantage on the second attack 65% of the time and one smite for 2d8 each round. So ( (.65 x (3.5+3) + (.85 x (6.5+13.5)))+(.35 x (.65 x (6.5+13.5)))=25.775 for an individual attack at level 3. However, you can only do this 4 times before you run out of smites. After that it’s ((.65 x 6.5) + (.85 x 6.5)) + (.35 x (.65 x 6.5))=11.229. So about equal to the L4 ranger. At L4 you can take dual wielding getting a third attack for .65 x 6.5=4.225 so about 30 dpr for 4 attacks then 15.5 dpr from there on out. At level 5 you get both extra attack and 3 more spell slots so 35dpr for 6 rounds then 20 dpr for the rest of the day. Certainly better than the rogue.
Ranger - Dex based, 2 weapon fighting, light weapons. Here the choice of subclass matters. While fey wanderer gets +1d4 psychic damage once a round, hunter with colossus slayer is probably better overall with + 1d8 on one attack after the foe is damaged. In addition you get 2 free hunter’s marks along with 3 slot castings each lasting an hour. Yes you sometimes have to use a bonus action to switch targets but (especially) at level 3 that isn’t a big deal. So the fighting style gives you +3 to each hit, then hunters marks along with giving an additional d6 to each hit and finally colossus slayer giving a d8 to one hit. So: (((.65 x 10) + (.85 x(10+4.5))+ .65 x 14.5))=28.25- slightly better than the Paladin with smites but useable for far longer. Like the Paladin at level 4 you can take dual w for a 3 rd attack (+6.5 dpr) - 34.75 dpr and L5 gives extra attack for yet another attack (+6.5 dpr) - 41 dpr the best so far. Some paladins can get hunters marks along with but using it reduces the number of smites and doesn’t bring the smiteless dpr up to ranger levels . So if what you want is max dpr it looks like your best bet pure 2024 PHB is probably a hunter ranger using light weapons between L1-6.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Can I ask what the DPR on a light property bezerker barb?
Hello! Call me Tana.
My pronouns are She/Her.
I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace
I will mother you if you are being stupid.
ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll]
I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
A 2 weapon ranger knocks out a lot of damage at low levels. two weapon fighting style, nick, hunters mark, it adds up to a lot of damage.
4d6 just from base two weapon combat and Hunter's Mark alone. A Fey Wanderer adds an additional 1d4 per round, while a Gloom Stalker can have more burst damage they can't sustain that damage over the course of an adventuring day (no issue if your group does the 15 minute adventuring day bit).
And additional 2d6 comes into play when extra attack comes on line, and if your group uses the 2 Off-Hand attacks with the 2 Weapon Fighting feat that's an additional 2d6. Plus the fighting style allows off hand attacks to benefit from the stat modifier.
So, with a Fey Wanderer at level 3 that's 4d6+6, plus 1d4. At level 4 that will be 6d6 +12 + 1d4 (if use of the bonus action for a second off hand attack is allowed - the main designer said sure but your DM might disagree), and at level 6 it's 8d6 + 16 + 1d4. If your DM insists that Nick only prevents the off hand attack from using the bonus action but it's still limited to once per round, then 6d6 + 12 + 1d4 doesn't come on until level 6.
That's only working with the absolute basics of a Fey Wanderer Ranger, a 17 dexterity to begin with, and the Dual Wilder feat at level 4.
Note, your DM could also take a middle ground and rule that the second off hand attack from using Dual Wielder with your bonus action does NOT get the benefit of your Stat bonus to damage while still allowing the attack to take place. Neither I, nor anyone posting here (probably) is making the decisions as to what is allowed and how, so talk to your DM before making any assumptions.
I am curious how the adventurers league thing uses nick. But in theory they follow the rules.
IMO the rules are not clear which is a shame, why they don't have more interaction examples with abilities I will never know. But as far as I can tell it can be read to add extra attack and the designers seem to have indicated that was also the intent. So for my table at least that is how we have rolled. Again at low levels it makes the ranger a power house, but as they stop getting extra attacks it seems to stagnate there.
The Nick rules are clear enough. It doesn't give you an extra attack. It changes the timing of the extra attack you get from Light, freeing up your bonus action.
The way you get an extra attack is to also have the Dual Wielder feat.
I ask again
Because today I played one of those and rolled 56 damage at level 3, granted I did crit, but still
Hello! Call me Tana.
My pronouns are She/Her.
I am a teenager. I have Autism and ADHD. And, you would probably call me trans femme, Pansexual pancake, and ace
I will mother you if you are being stupid.
ALL HAIL MERLIN! [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] + [roll]1d4[/roll] = [roll][roll:-6]+[roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll]
I have adopted Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, and Foalin.
If it was clear there would not be 600 pages of arguments on how it worked. Many people don't think the dual wielder feat adds anything to it so you only get 2 attacks with or without it when you have nick. Hence why they need examples on how things work and work together.
If you can only make an off-hand attack with the Dual Wielder feat then anyone who takes the Two Weapon Fighting feat at level 2 is going to be very upset to learn they wasted a choice for two levels minimum.
Aaaaand, looking it up, I can't find the rule that states a character can make an attack with an off hand weapon using a bonus action in the 2024 rules. I can find it in the 2014 rules, but not the 2024 books.
It could certainly be interpreted that without the proper feat, a character can't fight with two weapons.
My group will probably rule that this was a brain fart from the design team and run it like it was in 2014. Although if I am mistaken, please let me know where it is in the 2024 rulebook. With the exact page number so I can see it in my own book.