I am not sure why people are specifying LGBT+ friendly groups. I am a 18 year veteran of D&D. Two of my best friends fall under LGBT. Are there really people being so abhorrent about this that they wont let people of the LGBT community play in their games?
Given that there are jerks in every grouping of people and that ill treatment of people who belong to minority groups is well known, I think it’s safe to say there’s a 99% chance a group like this exists.
On a more subtle level, there’s a difference between allowing someone to play and a friendly environment.
As an example, there are many cases where players who are women have their character specifically singled out as a target of sexual violence - that’s not a friendly group for a female player. The same is true for people of color.
In the case of people who are LGBTQ, there are certainly groups who might include someone who openly identifies, but the people at the table levy a barrage of comments, misconceptions, and crappy behavior targeted at that person. That’s not a friendly atmosphere.
In a perfect world we wouldn’t need to advertise this because everyone would be accepting of people who are different, but unfortunately that’s not the world we live in currently. It sucks to think about someone being treated poorly because of something outside of their control (like orientation, gender, or the color of their skin) and it’s easy to imagine that being a relic of the past, but it’s not. A cursory search on google will show you how common this behavior is.
I’m hopeful things will change someday. Until that time, it’s helpful for a person to know the table they join is a friendly environment.
It's not just about "letting" queer people play. There are groups that will "let" a queer person join, but then will make transphobic or homophobic "jokes" during the game. Or will start asking intrusive questions. Or will say something like, "Sure you can play, but don't rub our faces in that gay stuff," when by "rub our faces in that gay stuff" they mean "make even a vague reference to the fact that you're not straight."
Speaking as a queer person: homophobia and transphobia are still very, very real (especially the transphobia). DnD is supposed to be an escape from the shitty real world we live in, so if I'm looking for a new group I want to make sure that the bigotry that makes our real world so shitty is absent.
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"We're the perfect combination of expendable and unkillable!"
Maybe I just put my group as the standard. We have had a gay and transgender player in our group for years. I can be naive and hopeful. Even at 26 I don't think of it the same way as some. In fact I think my group of new players I am hosting now has someone who is gay and two people that are bisexual. It is kinda what happens I guess when you go from playing only house games to playing online.
Speaking as a queer person: homophobia and transphobia are still very, very real (especially the transphobia).
And despite all the hard won victories of the last decade the fact is that it can all slide backward very quickly due to those very people who would express such hate.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
As mentioned above, there's a bit of difference between being LGBTQ+ friendly and just being accepting. For example, a player might want to have their character be non-binary and tell this to the GM and the party. The party and characters in the world would then refer to their character by ''they'' instead of He or Her. It seems like a little thing to a lot of people, but to some people, that sort of thing really matters and in reality, it does take a little bit of metagaming. That non-binary person probably has to explain their stance to a lot of people in the real world, but in an LGBTQ+ friendly group it would just be accepted and every character they run into would know the situation without having to ask. There are two non-binary people in my gaming group and it really makes a difference in how comfortable some people are.
I think its a bit small minded to think that everyone who isn't pro LGBT are hateful people. Religious beliefs, personal ideals about gender and relationships, and other things can all play a factor in this. To say anyone who is anti LGBT is hateful is in itself hateful. You conveniently put all of your issues into one box and label it "Hateful people" makes it easier to express how you feel. But it does nothing to explain how the other people feel and think. Acceptance needs to come from both sides. If you label people something simply because they don't agree with you or your ideals then you are basically doing the same thing to them. Of course they will speak out and lash out if you label people this way. I personally have LGBT friends. While I don't share their ideals on this subject and personally align with the straight crowd. I don't go over into their lives preaching to them they are wrong and they should change. They know I am who I am and don't try to force my hand on the matter. We all just enjoy our friendship and let each other live our lives as we see fit. The way I see it. I have my own problems. I don't need to worry about other peoples issues. I have enough to worry about with relationships in my own life without worrying about who is sticking what where in other peoples lives. I only get mad when people try to force their agendas and ideals upon me and tell me I must accept them. That is when it goes from acceptance to something much more serious. If I may suggest this. Don't try to label your groups like this. Just play the game and find people the regular way like most people. Yeah you will find people who wont agree with you and will lash out. But so what? Just move on and keep trying. The most rewarding relationships in life are the ones you earned. Not the ones you took shortcuts to create.
People who are "anti-LGBT" disagree with my existence.
I disagree with their beliefs.
I really hope you can see the difference between the two. I can peacefully coexist in a game with someone who has different ideas about religion no issue; I can't peacefully coexist in a game with someone who thinks I shouldn't exist.
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"We're the perfect combination of expendable and unkillable!"
As a sidebar, does this stuff come up in game sessions? I have played with a wide variety of people and we have never once had a conversation on sexual orientation, religious beliefs, political affiliation, racial cultures, etc. We play D&D to have fun playing D&D - where do these topics come into play?
If the answer is in transitional commentary or small talk before/after sessions - I can understand why certain groups of players would specifically advertise for others accepting of their certain group. No one desires to undergo all the preparation of beginning a campaign only to find that you'll constantly be harassed or badgered because of who you are. It's not OK to be made to feel uncomfortable for what feels right to you. I may be part of an increasingly hated group (CIS white male) but I am a champion of equity and equality - the comforts and opportunities that I encounter need to be made available/the same for all others, regardless of what makes you feel whole. To receive any less regard because of one's preference/choice/attunement/birth is wrong - plain and simple. D&D allows us all to roleplay different lives in different worlds with different roles and it's a shame if we can't enjoy the genre which has brought us together.
Please remember to keep this thread on the positive side, as any hot topic issue can have the potential to get rambunctious. 👀
No, most of the time with anti-LGBTQIA+ stuff in games, it doesn't explicitly come up in session or at the table. Most of the time, it's stuff that comes from well meaning people at the table who don't know they're making things uncomfortable for the LGBTQIA+ players. Most of the time, no one says anything about it, and you'll miss it if you weren't the one affected by it. As someone searching for an LGBTQIA+ friendly game (hit me up), it's as much about finding groups who are competent about at least some of the basic realities of being LGBTQIA+ as it is about finding groups who don't use slurs.
Some examples of stuff I look to avoid in games/groups: When a DM's world is exclusively filled with straight cis people, and everyone is assumed to be attracted to members of the opposite sex. When bad "jokes" are told at an entire group of peoples' expense, as Nat_30 mentioned. When a player's pronouns aren't respected. It's stuff that sounds small, and really, it is. It's not stuff that requires a radical amount of effort from people, and it isn't the kind of stuff that should make a DM have to throw out their whole campaign (unless it really is that bad), but it's enough to create an unwelcome environment for some.
In all these cases, it's most likely that the uncomfortable player won't say anything, and that they'll either silently leave the group with some made-up excuse, or grit their teeth through every session. In all likelihood, the DM or the players who created this discomfort had no intention of creating any discomfort. But having good intentions--or simply declaring that you respect everyone equally regardless of identity--isn't the same thing as putting in the work to make sure every player at the table feels included. You don't, and shouldn't assume, that you live in the same reality as your fellow players, whether they're LGBTQIA+ or not.
Matthew Colville did a great video on playing with groups of mixed identities. It's specifically for DMs, but it's a great video to watch for anyone: https://youtu.be/EHUCi6ZbVxU
As a sidebar, does this stuff come up in game sessions? I have played with a wide variety of people and we have never once had a conversation on sexual orientation, religious beliefs, political affiliation, racial cultures, etc. We play D&D to have fun playing D&D - where do these topics come into play?
You're talking about topics that we're specifically not allowed to talk about on threat of banning and asking us to respond to your questions about those topics. So where is the line here? You're essentially inviting people to test exactly where that line is but they're also the ones who will suffer the consequences for crossing it. I'm not even allowed to mention whether or not I've been banned for such things because that would also be a bannable offence. Seems like you're asking everyone to play with fire even though you're the fire marshall.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
I play D&D online with 2 people that I have never met. I don't even know what job they do in the real world.
I certainly would never be so crass as to enquire as to their sexuality, skin colour or religious beliefs. I should have asked the star question though: "Trek or Wars?"
Pretty sure its fine to reply directly to a moderator if they are asking about such things. And of course using language appropriate for the forums within your answers. As for staying with the forum rules that doesn't change. Just use your brain and don't say stupid crap. If you think you might get dinged or banned for something then its probably best not to say it in the first place. But if a mods asking you a specific question on something. Then it should be fine to respond while using a couple brain cells to provide a answer that's not slur filled.
I think its a bit small minded to think that everyone who isn't pro LGBT are hateful people. Religious beliefs, personal ideals about gender and relationships, and other things can all play a factor in this. To say anyone who is anti LGBT is hateful is in itself hateful. You conveniently put all of your issues into one box and label it "Hateful people" makes it easier to express how you feel. But it does nothing to explain how the other people feel and think. Acceptance needs to come from both sides. If you label people something simply because they don't agree with you or your ideals then you are basically doing the same thing to them. Of course they will speak out and lash out if you label people this way. I personally have LGBT friends. While I don't share their ideals on this subject and personally align with the straight crowd. I don't go over into their lives preaching to them they are wrong and they should change. They know I am who I am and don't try to force my hand on the matter. We all just enjoy our friendship and let each other live our lives as we see fit. The way I see it. I have my own problems. I don't need to worry about other peoples issues. I have enough to worry about with relationships in my own life without worrying about who is sticking what where in other peoples lives. I only get mad when people try to force their agendas and ideals upon me and tell me I must accept them. That is when it goes from acceptance to something much more serious. If I may suggest this. Don't try to label your groups like this. Just play the game and find people the regular way like most people. Yeah you will find people who wont agree with you and will lash out. But so what? Just move on and keep trying. The most rewarding relationships in life are the ones you earned. Not the ones you took shortcuts to create.
I feel... compelled to respond because, other than the fact this is rather irrelevant to the OP's question: I'm curious to understand where you got the "not pro LGBT = hateful" bit. I don't see anywhere that anyone said that. And then I get more curious, because you switch to "anti-LGBT", who are legitimately hateful people... you don't know about antisemitism? It's quite literally the same concept. Anti-LGBTQIA+ means one does not believe these people deserve equal protections under the law and are, ultimately, second (or third, etc.) class citizens, and thus inferior to "others" (whoever that might be for the individual). Anti-LGBTQIA+ =/= not Pro-LGBTQIA+. That's not to say the line is thin, but, as Nat_30 mentioned, there seems to be a false equivalency happening there that is curious to me. Regardless, it is fascinating to me that you seem to have taken offence to the whole concept.
And, to speak to another point, intolerance of intolerance is not intolerance. So, being non-accepting of nonacceptance is not nonacceptance. Accepting intolerance or nonacceptance makes you complicit, and allows for such thoughts and ideals a safe place to persist. And I shouldn't have to say that this is a bad thing... Those who believe that all people are equal and deserve to live their lives (so as they don't harm others...) as they so desire /must/ speak and act against those who are not. Otherwise, the world will not, and cannot, become a better place.
So as to be on-topic, I believe the intent of LGBTQIA+ /friendly/ group is, to reiterate, an environment to feel safe and welcome both as a player, and your character itself. It is a place to not only feel welcome to speak about your life and experiences, but that you are free to play your character without backlash of any kind (singling out in negative ways (imprisonment, torture, etc.)), making the game world non-accepting in a way that's too much like the real world, and then of course the table banter.
Beyond that, I think it also includes the allowance of "non-traditional" (I personally hate that term, it's so misleading) relationships within the course of gameplay itself. And not just the allowance, but that feeling of comfort to feel as though pursuing that won't lead to general awkwardness throughout the table.
Maybe Blackmail's point is that LGBT people are just as likely to be a$$hats as anybody else. Being LGB or T doesn't make you a good person, or a fun person to be around. Being LGBT friendly doesn't mean you instantly like all LGB or T people. I couldn't care less if you are LGBT or not, I will dislike you on your own merits.
LGBT friendly is a stupid phrase.
I am not "LGBT friendly."
But if you are a D&D player, and the words "roll initiative" cause your heart rate to increase...then sure, that's a pretty good start for me.
It would be wonderful to say that there is no need to label a group as LGBT+ friendly. But sometimes it is needed. It's not a label to say "this is all we are and the only players we want" - a group can describe itself as LGBT+ and simply happen to have all straight players. The label is just a way to say they want it to be a safe place so that if you want to consider joining a group then you know this group is going to be safe for you. Not just for LGBT+ players either: there has been a stigma about players, often straight males, who wanted to roleplay a female/gay/etc character and getting ridiculed for it. The LGBT+ groups would be places where they could do this without that ridicule or even needing to explain why.
D&D on the whole is very open about LGBT+ people and on the whole can be accepting but there can be games where it will not be the case. It would be unwise to think that a label would be unnecessary. Going into a group, playing a game and then when you open up and make a passive OOC comment that "outs" you having those players turn on you. It does happen. For the "normals" amongst you, you will never know what this is like but those (incorrectly) viewed as "abnormal" will have felt the fear of this for most of their life and finding it everywhere.
I am gay.
Now those three words may be nothing to you. For me, it took over two decades to be able to type them under the pseudo-anonymity of the internet and as of the time writing this I have not been able to say them aloud to anybody. I'm over 30 years old and realised this part of me before I was 10. Over two decades and still I have fear. I have family who do accept LGBT+ and friends who are LGBT+. Still I have fear. I grew up being told I was nothing, worthless and have had people beat me with sticks, stones and metal poles or thrown me onto roads - and this was just for existing as me without any signs of actually being different. I was just 9 years old when the hatred people can have lead me to nearly taking my own life. So, in a world where this secret has lead to people being targeted by hatred, where religions and entire nations want you dead for it it doesn't matter how friendly or accepting those people in my life are because it's the random stranger I already learned to fear. It's the random stranger with a metaphoric or literal weapon that could learn you are, in their eyes "abnormal", and feel justified in hating you enough to use that weapon against you. They make me afraid and they keep me silent. People can hate each other to incredible levels without any actual reason, and LGBT+ basically walk around with a "reason" to be hated as does anyone with something that makes them "different".
For those of us who have learned to be afraid we appreciate groups with this label that says we don't have to be.
For the rest of you consider it a label where you can really take on any role and not be judged. Roleplaying games like D&D let you become who and what you want to be. If you're a straight male then I urge to try playing a gay character, or female or trans or non-binary or whatever: you're already a straight male, so try something different - try a new perspective. Not only can it open your mind more (as varied perspectives of any kind are want to do) but it can improve your acting and can prepare you for being a DM someday where you may need to play as NPCs of all kinds.
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@Cybermind (Sorry, I'm too old for all that 3=e crap!)
Interesting post, and it is always hard to relate to how tough minority groups sometimes have it - or more importantly, individuals within that minority group. Thankfully, I just don't have that frame of reference. (Thankfully for me...I'm not sure I could deal with some of the stuff you hear.)
Without wanting to put more fear and worry out there, but if I was the kind of person who wanted to persecute a minority, then I would probably bait the hook to draw them into my territory first. How better to find victims to torment, if only briefly. A group claiming to be LGBT+ friendly is indeed likely to be exactly that - but "welcome to my parlour..." said the spider.
As someone who doesn't consider ( )self to be a part of any minority group**, I know that people advertising their membership of a group as a priority or their most important feature, annoys me unless it is directly relevant to the discussion. I think it is true to say that most people just don't care. "So you're a vegetarian - what's that got to do with having a game of Fortnite?" Unfortunately, it is the small minority that do care, and make it their life goal to make your life miserable, that have the biggest impact upon your life.
"Welcome to S1 - Adventurers welcome!" - Like Luke on Dagobah, I bet your PC wouldn't enter without his weapons...
P.S. I play D&D - I am suspicious of everything. P.S. I am a DM. We are always looking for different angles to sucker punch players with. Not a good combination if you want to sleep soundly.
I'd just like to jump in and state that, as an actively moderated community, D&D Beyond are committed to these forums being a safe place to engage in discussion on all things Dungeons & Dragons, whether you are a member of a minority group or not.
Thank you all for being part of this community and being able to participate in an emotionally charged discussion without it becoming something that moderators have had to step into and remove posts and warn people for poor behaviour. The D&D community, and especially the D&D Beyond community, is the absolute most awesome bunch of people I have had the pleasure of moderating for in over 20 years of moderating forums. :)
I would also like to address and clear up the concerns expressed above by users about whether participating in this discussion is against the site rules & guidelines.
Specifically, this line:
Hateful language about race, religion, gender, country (Example: US vs. EU threads), political beliefs, etc.
It is absolutely ok to discuss the challenges and problems that minority groups face, within a context that relates to Dungeons & Dragons.
It is not ok to express an opinion about groups of people as a whole. That is prejudice and has no place on these forums. That goes both ways, whether it's an opinion about a minority group, or someone from a minority group expressing an opinion about everyone outside of that group. Yes, this means that you need to be careful when posting on a sensitive subject, but I think that is a reasonable request.
I do have my own opinions on the topic being discussed, but as a moderator I'm staying out of the conversation to retain objectivity. For full disclosure, I am male caucasian cis-gender and support the LGBTQ+ community.
I'm just going to say, I don't see why being specifically "friendly" to any group identity regardless whether it's lgbt, racial, ethnic, religious, etc. should even matter. If you are part of such a group, the only time it comes into play is in sit-down groups in which case; if your looking for a group of random strangers with whom to play, then the goal should be having fun with them, not making sure they agree with your personal values. If your goal is to find a group of people who share values, then you're not really looking for a group to have fun with, you're looking for a group to reinforce your values. Sure, some groups will be actively "pro/anti" [insert any personal value/identity]. I say leave such things out of the gaming. There's no need to bring hot-button socio-political issues into the game forum. Especially if the intent is to try to enforce it on a group.
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I am not sure why people are specifying LGBT+ friendly groups. I am a 18 year veteran of D&D. Two of my best friends fall under LGBT. Are there really people being so abhorrent about this that they wont let people of the LGBT community play in their games?
Given that there are jerks in every grouping of people and that ill treatment of people who belong to minority groups is well known, I think it’s safe to say there’s a 99% chance a group like this exists.
On a more subtle level, there’s a difference between allowing someone to play and a friendly environment.
As an example, there are many cases where players who are women have their character specifically singled out as a target of sexual violence - that’s not a friendly group for a female player. The same is true for people of color.
In the case of people who are LGBTQ, there are certainly groups who might include someone who openly identifies, but the people at the table levy a barrage of comments, misconceptions, and crappy behavior targeted at that person. That’s not a friendly atmosphere.
In a perfect world we wouldn’t need to advertise this because everyone would be accepting of people who are different, but unfortunately that’s not the world we live in currently. It sucks to think about someone being treated poorly because of something outside of their control (like orientation, gender, or the color of their skin) and it’s easy to imagine that being a relic of the past, but it’s not. A cursory search on google will show you how common this behavior is.
I’m hopeful things will change someday. Until that time, it’s helpful for a person to know the table they join is a friendly environment.
Edit for grammar and spelling
It's not just about "letting" queer people play. There are groups that will "let" a queer person join, but then will make transphobic or homophobic "jokes" during the game. Or will start asking intrusive questions. Or will say something like, "Sure you can play, but don't rub our faces in that gay stuff," when by "rub our faces in that gay stuff" they mean "make even a vague reference to the fact that you're not straight."
Speaking as a queer person: homophobia and transphobia are still very, very real (especially the transphobia). DnD is supposed to be an escape from the shitty real world we live in, so if I'm looking for a new group I want to make sure that the bigotry that makes our real world so shitty is absent.
"We're the perfect combination of expendable and unkillable!"
Maybe I just put my group as the standard. We have had a gay and transgender player in our group for years. I can be naive and hopeful. Even at 26 I don't think of it the same way as some. In fact I think my group of new players I am hosting now has someone who is gay and two people that are bisexual. It is kinda what happens I guess when you go from playing only house games to playing online.
Why aren't you asking them then?
And despite all the hard won victories of the last decade the fact is that it can all slide backward very quickly due to those very people who would express such hate.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
I mainly asking here because this is where I am seeing it. Both of them now live in other places and I am not sure what their schedules are.
As mentioned above, there's a bit of difference between being LGBTQ+ friendly and just being accepting. For example, a player might want to have their character be non-binary and tell this to the GM and the party. The party and characters in the world would then refer to their character by ''they'' instead of He or Her. It seems like a little thing to a lot of people, but to some people, that sort of thing really matters and in reality, it does take a little bit of metagaming. That non-binary person probably has to explain their stance to a lot of people in the real world, but in an LGBTQ+ friendly group it would just be accepted and every character they run into would know the situation without having to ask. There are two non-binary people in my gaming group and it really makes a difference in how comfortable some people are.
I think its a bit small minded to think that everyone who isn't pro LGBT are hateful people. Religious beliefs, personal ideals about gender and relationships, and other things can all play a factor in this. To say anyone who is anti LGBT is hateful is in itself hateful. You conveniently put all of your issues into one box and label it "Hateful people" makes it easier to express how you feel. But it does nothing to explain how the other people feel and think. Acceptance needs to come from both sides. If you label people something simply because they don't agree with you or your ideals then you are basically doing the same thing to them. Of course they will speak out and lash out if you label people this way. I personally have LGBT friends. While I don't share their ideals on this subject and personally align with the straight crowd. I don't go over into their lives preaching to them they are wrong and they should change. They know I am who I am and don't try to force my hand on the matter. We all just enjoy our friendship and let each other live our lives as we see fit. The way I see it. I have my own problems. I don't need to worry about other peoples issues. I have enough to worry about with relationships in my own life without worrying about who is sticking what where in other peoples lives. I only get mad when people try to force their agendas and ideals upon me and tell me I must accept them. That is when it goes from acceptance to something much more serious. If I may suggest this. Don't try to label your groups like this. Just play the game and find people the regular way like most people. Yeah you will find people who wont agree with you and will lash out. But so what? Just move on and keep trying. The most rewarding relationships in life are the ones you earned. Not the ones you took shortcuts to create.
You're making a false equivalence.
People who are "anti-LGBT" disagree with my existence.
I disagree with their beliefs.
I really hope you can see the difference between the two. I can peacefully coexist in a game with someone who has different ideas about religion no issue; I can't peacefully coexist in a game with someone who thinks I shouldn't exist.
"We're the perfect combination of expendable and unkillable!"
As a sidebar, does this stuff come up in game sessions? I have played with a wide variety of people and we have never once had a conversation on sexual orientation, religious beliefs, political affiliation, racial cultures, etc. We play D&D to have fun playing D&D - where do these topics come into play?
If the answer is in transitional commentary or small talk before/after sessions - I can understand why certain groups of players would specifically advertise for others accepting of their certain group. No one desires to undergo all the preparation of beginning a campaign only to find that you'll constantly be harassed or badgered because of who you are. It's not OK to be made to feel uncomfortable for what feels right to you. I may be part of an increasingly hated group (CIS white male) but I am a champion of equity and equality - the comforts and opportunities that I encounter need to be made available/the same for all others, regardless of what makes you feel whole. To receive any less regard because of one's preference/choice/attunement/birth is wrong - plain and simple. D&D allows us all to roleplay different lives in different worlds with different roles and it's a shame if we can't enjoy the genre which has brought us together.
Please remember to keep this thread on the positive side, as any hot topic issue can have the potential to get rambunctious. 👀
@Sledge:
No, most of the time with anti-LGBTQIA+ stuff in games, it doesn't explicitly come up in session or at the table. Most of the time, it's stuff that comes from well meaning people at the table who don't know they're making things uncomfortable for the LGBTQIA+ players. Most of the time, no one says anything about it, and you'll miss it if you weren't the one affected by it. As someone searching for an LGBTQIA+ friendly game (hit me up), it's as much about finding groups who are competent about at least some of the basic realities of being LGBTQIA+ as it is about finding groups who don't use slurs.
Some examples of stuff I look to avoid in games/groups: When a DM's world is exclusively filled with straight cis people, and everyone is assumed to be attracted to members of the opposite sex. When bad "jokes" are told at an entire group of peoples' expense, as Nat_30 mentioned. When a player's pronouns aren't respected. It's stuff that sounds small, and really, it is. It's not stuff that requires a radical amount of effort from people, and it isn't the kind of stuff that should make a DM have to throw out their whole campaign (unless it really is that bad), but it's enough to create an unwelcome environment for some.
In all these cases, it's most likely that the uncomfortable player won't say anything, and that they'll either silently leave the group with some made-up excuse, or grit their teeth through every session. In all likelihood, the DM or the players who created this discomfort had no intention of creating any discomfort. But having good intentions--or simply declaring that you respect everyone equally regardless of identity--isn't the same thing as putting in the work to make sure every player at the table feels included. You don't, and shouldn't assume, that you live in the same reality as your fellow players, whether they're LGBTQIA+ or not.
Matthew Colville did a great video on playing with groups of mixed identities. It's specifically for DMs, but it's a great video to watch for anyone: https://youtu.be/EHUCi6ZbVxU
You're talking about topics that we're specifically not allowed to talk about on threat of banning and asking us to respond to your questions about those topics. So where is the line here? You're essentially inviting people to test exactly where that line is but they're also the ones who will suffer the consequences for crossing it. I'm not even allowed to mention whether or not I've been banned for such things because that would also be a bannable offence. Seems like you're asking everyone to play with fire even though you're the fire marshall.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
I play D&D online with 2 people that I have never met. I don't even know what job they do in the real world.
I certainly would never be so crass as to enquire as to their sexuality, skin colour or religious beliefs.
I should have asked the star question though: "Trek or Wars?"
Otherwise: What Dropbear said.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Pretty sure its fine to reply directly to a moderator if they are asking about such things. And of course using language appropriate for the forums within your answers. As for staying with the forum rules that doesn't change. Just use your brain and don't say stupid crap. If you think you might get dinged or banned for something then its probably best not to say it in the first place. But if a mods asking you a specific question on something. Then it should be fine to respond while using a couple brain cells to provide a answer that's not slur filled.
I feel... compelled to respond because, other than the fact this is rather irrelevant to the OP's question:
I'm curious to understand where you got the "not pro LGBT = hateful" bit. I don't see anywhere that anyone said that.
And then I get more curious, because you switch to "anti-LGBT", who are legitimately hateful people... you don't know about antisemitism? It's quite literally the same concept. Anti-LGBTQIA+ means one does not believe these people deserve equal protections under the law and are, ultimately, second (or third, etc.) class citizens, and thus inferior to "others" (whoever that might be for the individual). Anti-LGBTQIA+ =/= not Pro-LGBTQIA+. That's not to say the line is thin, but, as Nat_30 mentioned, there seems to be a false equivalency happening there that is curious to me.
Regardless, it is fascinating to me that you seem to have taken offence to the whole concept.
And, to speak to another point, intolerance of intolerance is not intolerance. So, being non-accepting of nonacceptance is not nonacceptance. Accepting intolerance or nonacceptance makes you complicit, and allows for such thoughts and ideals a safe place to persist. And I shouldn't have to say that this is a bad thing...
Those who believe that all people are equal and deserve to live their lives (so as they don't harm others...) as they so desire /must/ speak and act against those who are not. Otherwise, the world will not, and cannot, become a better place.
So as to be on-topic, I believe the intent of LGBTQIA+ /friendly/ group is, to reiterate, an environment to feel safe and welcome both as a player, and your character itself. It is a place to not only feel welcome to speak about your life and experiences, but that you are free to play your character without backlash of any kind (singling out in negative ways (imprisonment, torture, etc.)), making the game world non-accepting in a way that's too much like the real world, and then of course the table banter.
Beyond that, I think it also includes the allowance of "non-traditional" (I personally hate that term, it's so misleading) relationships within the course of gameplay itself. And not just the allowance, but that feeling of comfort to feel as though pursuing that won't lead to general awkwardness throughout the table.
Maybe Blackmail's point is that LGBT people are just as likely to be a$$hats as anybody else. Being LGB or T doesn't make you a good person, or a fun person to be around. Being LGBT friendly doesn't mean you instantly like all LGB or T people. I couldn't care less if you are LGBT or not, I will dislike you on your own merits.
LGBT friendly is a stupid phrase.
I am not "LGBT friendly."
But if you are a D&D player, and the words "roll initiative" cause your heart rate to increase...then sure, that's a pretty good start for me.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
It would be wonderful to say that there is no need to label a group as LGBT+ friendly. But sometimes it is needed. It's not a label to say "this is all we are and the only players we want" - a group can describe itself as LGBT+ and simply happen to have all straight players. The label is just a way to say they want it to be a safe place so that if you want to consider joining a group then you know this group is going to be safe for you. Not just for LGBT+ players either: there has been a stigma about players, often straight males, who wanted to roleplay a female/gay/etc character and getting ridiculed for it. The LGBT+ groups would be places where they could do this without that ridicule or even needing to explain why.
D&D on the whole is very open about LGBT+ people and on the whole can be accepting but there can be games where it will not be the case. It would be unwise to think that a label would be unnecessary. Going into a group, playing a game and then when you open up and make a passive OOC comment that "outs" you having those players turn on you. It does happen. For the "normals" amongst you, you will never know what this is like but those (incorrectly) viewed as "abnormal" will have felt the fear of this for most of their life and finding it everywhere.
I am gay.
Now those three words may be nothing to you. For me, it took over two decades to be able to type them under the pseudo-anonymity of the internet and as of the time writing this I have not been able to say them aloud to anybody. I'm over 30 years old and realised this part of me before I was 10. Over two decades and still I have fear. I have family who do accept LGBT+ and friends who are LGBT+. Still I have fear. I grew up being told I was nothing, worthless and have had people beat me with sticks, stones and metal poles or thrown me onto roads - and this was just for existing as me without any signs of actually being different. I was just 9 years old when the hatred people can have lead me to nearly taking my own life. So, in a world where this secret has lead to people being targeted by hatred, where religions and entire nations want you dead for it it doesn't matter how friendly or accepting those people in my life are because it's the random stranger I already learned to fear. It's the random stranger with a metaphoric or literal weapon that could learn you are, in their eyes "abnormal", and feel justified in hating you enough to use that weapon against you. They make me afraid and they keep me silent. People can hate each other to incredible levels without any actual reason, and LGBT+ basically walk around with a "reason" to be hated as does anyone with something that makes them "different".
For those of us who have learned to be afraid we appreciate groups with this label that says we don't have to be.
For the rest of you consider it a label where you can really take on any role and not be judged. Roleplaying games like D&D let you become who and what you want to be. If you're a straight male then I urge to try playing a gay character, or female or trans or non-binary or whatever: you're already a straight male, so try something different - try a new perspective. Not only can it open your mind more (as varied perspectives of any kind are want to do) but it can improve your acting and can prepare you for being a DM someday where you may need to play as NPCs of all kinds.
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Interesting post, and it is always hard to relate to how tough minority groups sometimes have it - or more importantly, individuals within that minority group. Thankfully, I just don't have that frame of reference. (Thankfully for me...I'm not sure I could deal with some of the stuff you hear.)
Without wanting to put more fear and worry out there, but if I was the kind of person who wanted to persecute a minority, then I would probably bait the hook to draw them into my territory first. How better to find victims to torment, if only briefly. A group claiming to be LGBT+ friendly is indeed likely to be exactly that - but "welcome to my parlour..." said the spider.
As someone who doesn't consider ( )self to be a part of any minority group**, I know that people advertising their membership of a group as a priority or their most important feature, annoys me unless it is directly relevant to the discussion. I think it is true to say that most people just don't care. "So you're a vegetarian - what's that got to do with having a game of Fortnite?"
Unfortunately, it is the small minority that do care, and make it their life goal to make your life miserable, that have the biggest impact upon your life.
"Welcome to S1 - Adventurers welcome!" - Like Luke on Dagobah, I bet your PC wouldn't enter without his weapons...
P.S. I play D&D - I am suspicious of everything.
P.S. I am a DM. We are always looking for different angles to sucker punch players with.
Not a good combination if you want to sleep soundly.
**D&D doesn't really count anymore.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
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D&D Beyond FoundersHey everyone,
I'd just like to jump in and state that, as an actively moderated community, D&D Beyond are committed to these forums being a safe place to engage in discussion on all things Dungeons & Dragons, whether you are a member of a minority group or not.
Thank you all for being part of this community and being able to participate in an emotionally charged discussion without it becoming something that moderators have had to step into and remove posts and warn people for poor behaviour. The D&D community, and especially the D&D Beyond community, is the absolute most awesome bunch of people I have had the pleasure of moderating for in over 20 years of moderating forums. :)
I would also like to address and clear up the concerns expressed above by users about whether participating in this discussion is against the site rules & guidelines.
Specifically, this line:
It is absolutely ok to discuss the challenges and problems that minority groups face, within a context that relates to Dungeons & Dragons.
It is not ok to express an opinion about groups of people as a whole. That is prejudice and has no place on these forums. That goes both ways, whether it's an opinion about a minority group, or someone from a minority group expressing an opinion about everyone outside of that group. Yes, this means that you need to be careful when posting on a sensitive subject, but I think that is a reasonable request.
I do have my own opinions on the topic being discussed, but as a moderator I'm staying out of the conversation to retain objectivity. For full disclosure, I am male caucasian cis-gender and support the LGBTQ+ community.
Stay awesome everyone!
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I'm just going to say, I don't see why being specifically "friendly" to any group identity regardless whether it's lgbt, racial, ethnic, religious, etc. should even matter. If you are part of such a group, the only time it comes into play is in sit-down groups in which case; if your looking for a group of random strangers with whom to play, then the goal should be having fun with them, not making sure they agree with your personal values. If your goal is to find a group of people who share values, then you're not really looking for a group to have fun with, you're looking for a group to reinforce your values. Sure, some groups will be actively "pro/anti" [insert any personal value/identity]. I say leave such things out of the gaming. There's no need to bring hot-button socio-political issues into the game forum. Especially if the intent is to try to enforce it on a group.