I saw recent Reddit posts discussing genasi racial features and how they play into wild shape (specifically water and air with amphibious and unending breath). The question was "When you wild shape into your beast do you retain these features if so which ones?"
The general answer was for water genasi that you would retain your swim speed, but not anything else. The air genasi can use unending breath (while conscience). However, upon further inspection I found this explanation for Wild Shape in the manual
- You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.
Based upon this, I than looked up many of the special senses which are listed below.
I believe that if the air genasi can retain unending breathe (because they have lungs?) you should be able to breath underwater (and retain acid resistance) with any beast form you take. It is not a special sense but a racial features benefit. It can definitely add flavor, but makes the genasi choice much more practical. It wouldn't make sense that an air genasi would not need to make a consideration for going under water while a water genasi would now have to. I believe that the contingency on the new form being physically capable to do the feat is rather vague and can be extremely limiting. For example, pass without a trace for earth genasi. Can any beast use this simply because they've have feet/the capacity to move on land? Air genasi unending breath. Can any beast not need to breath because they have lungs to store oxygen? Fire genasi fire resistance. Doesn't any beast gain this resistance simply because they have a form of skin this feat transfers into? There is a form of magical properties that is needed for all of these to be appropriate. No animal is physically able to hold there breath forever, able to move without ANY trace (foot prints or scent), and very few skins have any level of resistance to the affects of fire. Hence the magic from the race is at play. Either they should all retain the features (except special senses) or none at all in my opinion.
Could you be more specific? I agree that you should not be able to cast spells while in wild shape. But racial traits like resistance or ability to breathe (under water or indefinitely depending upon the genasi subrace) I believe should be carried over. Do you mean nothing should carry over?
Welcome to the not specific enough wording of wild shape. The rules as written basically come down to "what does your DM think?"
The general consensus is you keep any learned or skill based features, but lose any physiology based features, and super natural abilities exist in more of a grey area.
Though since it has been confirmed that you keep sunlight sensitivity even though you lose darkvision, who's to say what is what.
- You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.
Based upon this alone I would lean toward you would keep certain ones over others. Like an Akarocka still being able to fly in wild shape. I don't think that should carry over because a bear can't fly, but more importantly that racial feature was due to that race having wings. Water genasi breathe under water from their connection to the elemental plane (nothing physiological) which they keep.
Welcome to the not specific enough wording of wild shape. The rules as written basically come down to "what does your DM think?"
The general consensus is you keep any learned or skill based features, but lose any physiology based features, and super natural abilities exist in more of a grey area.
Though since it has been confirmed that you keep sunlight sensitivity even though you lose darkvision, who's to say what is what.
Yeah I guess so. It all kind of feels grey (unless it's special senses which was clearly outlined as not carried over).
I feel like any racial trait that was not based upon anatomy (dragon breath, elemental resistance) should be carried over. I guess I'll just talk to the DM.
Okay, rereading the Wild Shape description a Bear would not be able to use a Battle axe, an ape however, could.
The Wild Shape discussion makes me wonder about other factors, like if you shape into a Giant Eagle can you use your languages that you know?
And if you're a level 13 Rogue with the thief archetype that multiclasses into druid and Wild Shapes, can you use magic items since the level 13 thief feature says you ignore race restorations?
The Wild Shape discussion makes me wonder about other factors, like if you shape into a Giant Eagle can you use your languages that you know?
The Giant Eagle states for languages: "Giant Eagle, understands Common and Auran but can't speak them" therefore the creature is incapable of speaking a language other than Giant Eagle, therefore it would mean that if your character knew Infernal, for example, then you could still understand Infernal, but cannot speak languages beside Giant Eagle.
And if you're a level 13 Rogue with the thief archetype that multiclasses into druid and Wild Shapes, can you use magic items since the level 13 thief feature says you ignore race restorations?
I would not say that trait carries over. As the thief can use weapons, again, the wild shape rules say traits carry over unless they aren't capable of using them. Meaning a bear that doesn't have any wizard levels would be incapable of using a magic item with a wizard restriction. Just as you added the race restriction category. A brown bear is not a drow, even if your character is one, therefore that does not carry over.
I ruled at my table that the druid Dragonborn was able to use his lightning breath while in bear form, mainly 'cause the character loved the idea of a lightning breathing bear. Looking back through the Player's Handbook afterwards, I think I made the right decision.
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"Halt your wagging and wag your halters, for I am mastercryomancer!"
I ruled at my table that the druid Dragonborn was able to use his lightning breath while in bear form, mainly 'cause the character loved the idea of a lightning breathing bear. Looking back through the Player's Handbook afterwards, I think I made the right decision.
I don't think that was the right call for RAW because a bear is incapable of breathing lightning. The traits carry over if the animal is physically capable of doing so, bears are physically incapable of breathing lightning, therefore RAW the bear could not use a breathe attack.
However, if the player loved it then it was right for your table. So no wrong move, but if you were going by the strict rules, then you did not adhere to RAW.
I made a post about this once, but I want to ask again here: what about a warforged druid?
Do they keep their integrated protection? Resistance to poison? Immunity to disease? Do they need to sleep, eat, drink, and/or breathe?
Same as above if the warforged turns to a horse, the horse is physically incapable of going without food for a 3 weeks (like a warforged can) therefore RAW means that trait does not carry over.
As a DM, I'd make certain allowances if my player particularly wants a trait to carry over, or roleplays it in a certain way.
One of my players is an Earth Genasi Moon Druid. If he had asked for his wildshape abilities to still retain his Genasi heritage, like his bear form having gravel skin and green crystalline structures, I would have been okay with it.
If he had played an Air or Water Genasi, and roleplayed the wildshape ability in that way, I would be okay with saying those traits also carried over.
But if I go purely RAW, I'd say no. Wildshape transforms your physical form entirely. The Genasi heritage, including abilities tied to it, is a physical trait. You need the blood of a genie, and while wildshaped you don't. Dragonborn are the same, their breath attack requires physiological attributes that are removed when wildshaping. A Warforged is no longer a construct when wildshaped. So on and so forth.
For a specific example, a water genasi can breathe underwater, because of the genie heritage flowing through the genasi's veins. A bear cannot breathe underwater. If a water genasi wildshapes into a bear, they trade that heritage for that of the bear.
It also doesn't really matter if the genasi doesn't have a genie heritage. Simple exposure to the elements can also lead to a genasi birth. But regardless, their various abilities are all tied to a physical trait, the blood within their veins.
"The elemental blood flowing through their veins manifests differently in each genasi, often as magical power."
The abilities themselves can be seen as magical traits, rather than physiological. However, the magical traits require a physical trait in order to manifest. Remove the physical trait, and the magical abilities do not manifest.
As a DM, I'd make certain allowances if my player particularly wants a trait to carry over, or roleplays it in a certain way.
One of my players is an Earth Genasi Moon Druid. If he had asked for his wildshape abilities to still retain his Genasi heritage, like his bear form having gravel skin and green crystalline structures, I would have been okay with it.
If he had played an Air or Water Genasi, and roleplayed the wildshape ability in that way, I would be okay with saying those traits also carried over.
But if I go purely RAW, I'd say no. Wildshape transforms your physical form entirely. The Genasi heritage, including abilities tied to it, is a physical trait. You need the blood of a genie, and while wildshaped you don't. Dragonborn are the same, their breath attack requires physiological attributes that are removed when wildshaping. A Warforged is no longer a construct when wildshaped. So on and so forth.
For a specific example, a water genasi can breathe underwater, because of the genie heritage flowing through the genasi's veins. A bear cannot breathe underwater. If a water genasi wildshapes into a bear, they trade that heritage for that of the bear.
It also doesn't really matter if the genasi doesn't have a genie heritage. Simple exposure to the elements can also lead to a genasi birth. But regardless, their various abilities are all tied to a physical trait, the blood within their veins.
"The elemental blood flowing through their veins manifests differently in each genasi, often as magical power."
The abilities themselves can be seen as magical traits, rather than physiological. However, the magical traits require a physical trait in order to manifest. Remove the physical trait, and the magical abilities do not manifest.
Interesting perspective. On that same coin though could you not also make the case that the connection to the elemental planes/blood ties would not change simply because the form changes? I have the body of the beast but my blood heritage doesn't change necessarily. I didn't see anywhere where that wasn't assumed (either direction). Atleast That's how I interpreted it. But I guess thats why this can come across grey.
He even specifies that since dragonborn breath is not tied to a specific anatomical feature, it can be retained in Wildshape.
Given that genasi don't also have an anatomical feature tied to their abilities, a wildshape would still retain them.
As I said before, I am perfectly okay with that, more for the roleplay than the mechanics. But I'm also okay with my original interpretation. A wildshaped bear does not have elemental or fey blood, nor does it have the organs that allow for dragonborn breaths, just as it does not have a tabaxi's claws, a tortle's shell or an aarakocra's wings.
My genasi druid player has been so far following my original interpretation, but I believe that's how he interprets it as well. Either way is fine, one is simply more fantastical and less grounded than the other.
So I have this Dragonborn druid player that insists on wildshaping into an adult dragon. Dad was one, so yes she could have seen one. But she gets ALL the adult black dragon stats, including 195 HP? It's really annoying, and a bit Op in my opinion.
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Hello everyone!
I saw recent Reddit posts discussing genasi racial features and how they play into wild shape (specifically water and air with amphibious and unending breath). The question was "When you wild shape into your beast do you retain these features if so which ones?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/6pc4k5/do_druids_keep_resistances_from_their_race_when/
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/51asa2/water_genasi_druid_loophole/
The general answer was for water genasi that you would retain your swim speed, but not anything else. The air genasi can use unending breath (while conscience). However, upon further inspection I found this explanation for Wild Shape in the manual
- You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.
Based upon this, I than looked up many of the special senses which are listed below.
- Low-light, Darkvision, Scent, Tremorsense, Blindsense, Touchsight, Lifesight, Mindsight, Total Vision, blindsight.
I believe that if the air genasi can retain unending breathe (because they have lungs?) you should be able to breath underwater (and retain acid resistance) with any beast form you take. It is not a special sense but a racial features benefit. It can definitely add flavor, but makes the genasi choice much more practical. It wouldn't make sense that an air genasi would not need to make a consideration for going under water while a water genasi would now have to. I believe that the contingency on the new form being physically capable to do the feat is rather vague and can be extremely limiting. For example, pass without a trace for earth genasi. Can any beast use this simply because they've have feet/the capacity to move on land? Air genasi unending breath. Can any beast not need to breath because they have lungs to store oxygen? Fire genasi fire resistance. Doesn't any beast gain this resistance simply because they have a form of skin this feat transfers into? There is a form of magical properties that is needed for all of these to be appropriate. No animal is physically able to hold there breath forever, able to move without ANY trace (foot prints or scent), and very few skins have any level of resistance to the affects of fire. Hence the magic from the race is at play. Either they should all retain the features (except special senses) or none at all in my opinion.
What are your thoughts on this?
I’d say no, and I’m playing a Moon Druid. Those are either physical traits or they’re spells and you can’t cast spells while you’re using Wild Shape.
Professional computer geek
Could you be more specific? I agree that you should not be able to cast spells while in wild shape. But racial traits like resistance or ability to breathe (under water or indefinitely depending upon the genasi subrace) I believe should be carried over. Do you mean nothing should carry over?
They’re physical traits, and the beast’s physical traits replace the Druid’s physical traits.
Professional computer geek
Welcome to the not specific enough wording of wild shape. The rules as written basically come down to "what does your DM think?"
The general consensus is you keep any learned or skill based features, but lose any physiology based features, and super natural abilities exist in more of a grey area.
Though since it has been confirmed that you keep sunlight sensitivity even though you lose darkvision, who's to say what is what.
True, but I am torn because of the manual excerpt
- You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.
Based upon this alone I would lean toward you would keep certain ones over others. Like an Akarocka still being able to fly in wild shape. I don't think that should carry over because a bear can't fly, but more importantly that racial feature was due to that race having wings. Water genasi breathe under water from their connection to the elemental plane (nothing physiological) which they keep.
Yeah I guess so. It all kind of feels grey (unless it's special senses which was clearly outlined as not carried over).
I feel like any racial trait that was not based upon anatomy (dragon breath, elemental resistance) should be carried over. I guess I'll just talk to the DM.
Another confusing thing about the Wild Shape rules, is that a dwarf druid RAW can turn into a Bear that dual wields battle axes.
Bears don't have opposable thumbs to hold onto the battleaxes......so I don't think that's correct.
Published Subclasses
Okay, rereading the Wild Shape description a Bear would not be able to use a Battle axe, an ape however, could.
The Wild Shape discussion makes me wonder about other factors, like if you shape into a Giant Eagle can you use your languages that you know?
And if you're a level 13 Rogue with the thief archetype that multiclasses into druid and Wild Shapes, can you use magic items since the level 13 thief feature says you ignore race restorations?
If my player was an ape, I would give them the correct proficiencies that follow since they would be capable of wielding weapons.
The Giant Eagle states for languages: "Giant Eagle, understands Common and Auran but can't speak them" therefore the creature is incapable of speaking a language other than Giant Eagle, therefore it would mean that if your character knew Infernal, for example, then you could still understand Infernal, but cannot speak languages beside Giant Eagle.
Published Subclasses
I would not say that trait carries over. As the thief can use weapons, again, the wild shape rules say traits carry over unless they aren't capable of using them. Meaning a bear that doesn't have any wizard levels would be incapable of using a magic item with a wizard restriction. Just as you added the race restriction category. A brown bear is not a drow, even if your character is one, therefore that does not carry over.
Published Subclasses
I ruled at my table that the druid Dragonborn was able to use his lightning breath while in bear form, mainly 'cause the character loved the idea of a lightning breathing bear. Looking back through the Player's Handbook afterwards, I think I made the right decision.
"Halt your wagging and wag your halters, for I am mastercryomancer!"
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I made a post about this once, but I want to ask again here: what about a warforged druid?
Do they keep their integrated protection? Resistance to poison? Immunity to disease? Do they need to sleep, eat, drink, and/or breathe?
I don't think that was the right call for RAW because a bear is incapable of breathing lightning. The traits carry over if the animal is physically capable of doing so, bears are physically incapable of breathing lightning, therefore RAW the bear could not use a breathe attack.
However, if the player loved it then it was right for your table. So no wrong move, but if you were going by the strict rules, then you did not adhere to RAW.
Same as above if the warforged turns to a horse, the horse is physically incapable of going without food for a 3 weeks (like a warforged can) therefore RAW means that trait does not carry over.
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ModeratorAs a DM, I'd make certain allowances if my player particularly wants a trait to carry over, or roleplays it in a certain way.
One of my players is an Earth Genasi Moon Druid. If he had asked for his wildshape abilities to still retain his Genasi heritage, like his bear form having gravel skin and green crystalline structures, I would have been okay with it.
If he had played an Air or Water Genasi, and roleplayed the wildshape ability in that way, I would be okay with saying those traits also carried over.
But if I go purely RAW, I'd say no. Wildshape transforms your physical form entirely. The Genasi heritage, including abilities tied to it, is a physical trait. You need the blood of a genie, and while wildshaped you don't. Dragonborn are the same, their breath attack requires physiological attributes that are removed when wildshaping. A Warforged is no longer a construct when wildshaped. So on and so forth.
For a specific example, a water genasi can breathe underwater, because of the genie heritage flowing through the genasi's veins. A bear cannot breathe underwater. If a water genasi wildshapes into a bear, they trade that heritage for that of the bear.
It also doesn't really matter if the genasi doesn't have a genie heritage. Simple exposure to the elements can also lead to a genasi birth. But regardless, their various abilities are all tied to a physical trait, the blood within their veins.
"The elemental blood flowing through their veins manifests differently in each genasi, often as magical power."
The abilities themselves can be seen as magical traits, rather than physiological. However, the magical traits require a physical trait in order to manifest. Remove the physical trait, and the magical abilities do not manifest.
Interesting perspective. On that same coin though could you not also make the case that the connection to the elemental planes/blood ties would not change simply because the form changes? I have the body of the beast but my blood heritage doesn't change necessarily. I didn't see anywhere where that wasn't assumed (either direction). Atleast That's how I interpreted it. But I guess thats why this can come across grey.
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ModeratorWord of Crawford is thus: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/909077662932418566?s=19
He even specifies that since dragonborn breath is not tied to a specific anatomical feature, it can be retained in Wildshape.
Given that genasi don't also have an anatomical feature tied to their abilities, a wildshape would still retain them.
As I said before, I am perfectly okay with that, more for the roleplay than the mechanics. But I'm also okay with my original interpretation. A wildshaped bear does not have elemental or fey blood, nor does it have the organs that allow for dragonborn breaths, just as it does not have a tabaxi's claws, a tortle's shell or an aarakocra's wings.
My genasi druid player has been so far following my original interpretation, but I believe that's how he interprets it as well. Either way is fine, one is simply more fantastical and less grounded than the other.
What do you think about a dragonborn changing into an adult dragon, because her Dad was one? Seems a bit OP to me, like BOOM 195 hit points.
So I have this Dragonborn druid player that insists on wildshaping into an adult dragon. Dad was one, so yes she could have seen one. But she gets ALL the adult black dragon stats, including 195 HP? It's really annoying, and a bit Op in my opinion.