You all could look into a new Chrome and Firefox extension called AboveVTT (Chrome and Firefox versions). It's being developed by one guy with a bunch of community support over on discord.
Here's a link to a recent dndbeyond forum thread about it.
Here's a link to a recent video overview of how a DM can set up a scene.
It's an all in one tool for adding a VTT that is looks to be fully integrated with dndbeyond. With this extension, you don't ever have to spend any money at Roll20 or Foundry or any other outside source.
You all could look into a new Chrome and Firefox extension called AboveVTT (Chrome and Firefox versions). It's being developed by one guy with a bunch of community support over on discord.
Here's a link to a recent dndbeyond forum thread about it.
Here's a link to a recent video overview of how a DM can set up a scene.
It's an all in one tool for adding a VTT that is looks to be fully integrated with dndbeyond. With this extension, you don't ever have to spend any money at Roll20 or Foundry or any other outside source.
I looked at it, it looks like it is at least a year away.
When discussing cost of modules I can only go by other reviews. Foundry may not charge for modules, but apparently they don't produce them either (though that is unclear to me). No it doesn't take 100 hours to learn a VTT, I was including coding time as well as ramp up time on their coding environments (Macros/PowerCards and ScriptCards) I haven't tried coding APIs yet but have spent some time disecting a few. I've spent a *lot* more than 100 hours on that (time gets away from you pretty easily) but expect some of those skills will cross over.
However what I would need to know for certain is how the software handles ISPs who release ips every few hours (to prevent just exactly this). Additionally up link is almost always a lot slower than downlink. I'd want to know the traffic burden (it should be minimal). Lastly if, as I suspect, I will have to get a fixed IP address to host then I'm back to a monthly. Doesn't matter if Forge gets the money or the ISP does.
Ages ago I ran a Never Winter Nights persistent world. It was a local and worked pretty well but that was before ISP started clamping down on fixed IPs. Bioware maintained servers supporting Never Winter Nights (to keep the ip links hot) for about 10 years then eventually stopped. Believe it or not the game engine was so good there was still a vibrant community after 10 years who were just abandoned.
There is a part of me that doesn't trust one time fees. Over time market share will shrink and there will be less incentive to support the product. They may choose to offset this by building Foundry 2.0 to compete with whatever cool new product that comes on the market and charge a whole new license fee (NWN tried that but their new product required artistic talent and so failed) while phasing out their old product (I've seen this happen too many times to not expect it).
Now don't get me wrong, there are obviously issues with Roll20, but it is a more stable platform AND I got to play with it for free for two years before I decided to subscribe. Foundry doesn't even offer me two weeks. That has never stuck me as a company that has faith in their product, even Microsoft gives you free trials!
I'm sorry, I'm a hard sell, but I know what would make it easy... whichever product Wizards buys I'll go with. I would think that Roll20 would have the edge in that as they are an online system with a built in income stream whereas Foundry is locally served and will be more of a maintenance/support pain. Even if Foundry is a superior product Roll20 fits better into the business model.
Foundry does offer a 30 day return now. I just asked for mine, it was soooo over my head. I'm not looking to program and design, just give me a place to lay down some maps and tokens lol.
Looked at Foundry when I started online Roleplaying, purchased it for a week and fiddled with it, looked far too much of a time investment and learning curve compared to Roll20. While it looks like it allows for more features that you can do with it in the end, it wasnt for me. So far, have not had many issues with Roll20 and it was easier to dive into. Im able to drag/drop maps, resize, reshape, place custom tokens and started dabbling with API scripts but I suspect due to the limited time I have, I wont be using them until they literally come 'pre-packaged' and ready to go.
When our group found Beyond20, it was a huge leap and bound, so we were happy with it to say the last, recently its formatting has taken a hit I guess due to D&D Beyond changing format of character sheets on the back end, so waiting for that to be tinkered and fixed.
I will take a look at a D&D Beyond Table top when it comes out, but ill be honest, Ive already put a lot of effort and work into Roll20 to get it to where I want it that just "up and moving" over to another VTT does not feel feasible nor constructive at this point. The D&D Beyond VTT has to be AS inuitive and customizable to use out of the box when it launches as I have things set up now for me to even consider it. Let alone the money I have placed into both platforms (Beyond and Roll20).
You all could look into a new Chrome and Firefox extension called AboveVTT (Chrome and Firefox versions). It's being developed by one guy with a bunch of community support over on discord.
Here's a link to a recent dndbeyond forum thread about it.
Here's a link to a recent video overview of how a DM can set up a scene.
It's an all in one tool for adding a VTT that is looks to be fully integrated with dndbeyond. With this extension, you don't ever have to spend any money at Roll20 or Foundry or any other outside source.
I looked at it, it looks like it is at least a year away.
OK, here is how it goes. I've watched all 3 videos on YouTube about Above VTT. The fact that there are only three should be concerning of itself (and one if them is labeled OLD), In terms of a basic interface it looks like it can work.
My biggest issue with any VTT is, how much room does it demand on the desktop. Since every VTT has to have map space that is not part of my discussion. So I have to be able to move through maps AND battles with as little confiscation of my desktop as possible. To this end I have written about 30ish (with a bunch more to come) macros that take little from my desktop. What does that actually mean?
I write macros for all my monsters abilities and attacks. I do not have to, during combat open up a monster sheet to access attacks. This by itself is huge... but wait there is more.
I've uploaded an API (Roll20) that numbers my monsters automatically so I always know which one is which and players (when necessary) can refer to Goblin5 (or whatever)... but wait there is more. My scripts all handle, On/Off handedness, Advantage/Disadvantage, Critical Hits/Fumbles, cover (for archers, this is applied manually in the rare instance of a melee weapon facing cover) and allows for a very quick DM modification for ToHit and damage. The attack then applies damage automatically.
I can easily add weapons to PCs should they want to use an autoroller rather than manually working through their attack. All this takes up virtually no room and I don't have to refer to any character sheets.
But wait there is more... I loaded an API that provides a ring (aura) around each character to give anyone looking at it a general idea of how damaged it is.
When I'm dragging and dropping my monsters to the tabletop I've written a one button macro that will roll their HPs (rather than assigning the same number for all 10 goblins) and roll their initiative and place them on the turn tracker. These turn battles and flipping from monster to monster that bog down worse than face to face play into lightning. I click on the attack on the bar, I click on the target, I choose up to three different drop downs and/or add DM mods and I'm done the attack resolves and damage is applied, less than 10 seconds per monster (usually less than 5). It definitely takes longer to decide who to attack than to resolve the attack.
Almost all of these things rely on APIs written by the community and integrated into Roll20 server (except for one that isn't integrated but still free) giving me the ability to write these macros. I can find no indication that Above VTT has anything even remotely like this. They may not even ever decide to go that far, Foudry has but I'll wait until my current project is done before spending a month on it.
So there are things I see in my limited view of Above VTT, one of them is that all my DnDBeyond stuff will integrate seamlessly (and I won't have to buy it a second time), but unless I at least have the tools to replicate most of the above then... it's at least a year away if ever.
AboveVTT's main target is to be easy and just work(tm) for the majority of simple use-cases. It doesn't have advanced automation and it may never will. So it probably targets a different kind of playstyle than what you expect/like and it's ok :)
I just want to clarify some of things you pointed out - AboveVTT does not require local disk space. The maps are always hosted elsewhere. If you see a nice free map on the internet you can just copy its link into the VTT and all players will get it directly from the original source (so it also requires less bandwidth than other configurations). They get it through the browser so it' not actually "saved" locally and browser already do a nice work with caching them and deleting them when needed. You always have to store your maps elsewhere.. and you can do it quickly with services like imgur or gdrive. (I think you can also setup foundry to use an AWS S3 bucket to store things.. or something like that... but you probably have to go through the process).
- We had automatic numbering of monsters (Goblin 1, Goblin 2 etc etc) and they were visible to players, BUT most DM didn't want players to see the name of the monsters. Right now every monster of the same type gets a different border color to idenfy them. You can also have any player double click on a token to point at it, so that it will flash for a couple second... I'd say that pointing at monsters during gameplay is generally not an issue.
- Auras for HP are ready in the dev version and they are going in the official plugin in a couple days.
- Rolling the maxhp for monsters instead of using the default is something that we will probably do.. it's more a matter of deciding how to do the UI part to let the user decide between average and roll.
Other things you pointed out are definitely missing and not even considered atm :) ... and of course the project is very young and we still don't have a lot of videos.. but more will come :)
Thank you for your time and effort.replying. I hope I can have the time to check it out, and I completely understand that you are still (and probably always will be) in development.
Specifically for me, I am writing content so using "free" maps may be problematic. Most "free" map creators are allowing you to use it, not make it part of a product for sale (but not always). I am currently fighting with Dungeon Painter Studio 2 in order to create my own maps. Having the map launch from a location that is not the host server does sound like a good idea.
As far as numbering goes, that sounds like a good solution. Of course there is no need to actually print the name of the monster, I don't generally mind that "common" monsters have name tag, whereas if a monster that would not be in the characters knowledge base pops up, then the name would not produce, just the number.
To be fair Roll20 doesn't auto number or have auras but they give the tools to do it and for those two items I just install an API.
The scripting I've done for my weapons is my code, again not directly provided by Roll20, but the tools are there.
Yeah, you are a different audience, and I wish you well
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You all could look into a new Chrome and Firefox extension called AboveVTT (Chrome and Firefox versions). It's being developed by one guy with a bunch of community support over on discord.
Here's a link to a recent dndbeyond forum thread about it.
Here's a link to a recent Reddit thread about it.
Here's a link to a recent video overview of how a DM can set up a scene.
It's an all in one tool for adding a VTT that is looks to be fully integrated with dndbeyond. With this extension, you don't ever have to spend any money at Roll20 or Foundry or any other outside source.
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
Check out my: FEATS | MAGIC ITEMS | MONSTERS | SUBCLASSES Artificer Specialist: Weaveblade
Dndbeyond images not loading A PERMANENT WORKAROUND!!! (thank you Jay_Lane)
I looked at it, it looks like it is at least a year away.
When discussing cost of modules I can only go by other reviews. Foundry may not charge for modules, but apparently they don't produce them either (though that is unclear to me). No it doesn't take 100 hours to learn a VTT, I was including coding time as well as ramp up time on their coding environments (Macros/PowerCards and ScriptCards) I haven't tried coding APIs yet but have spent some time disecting a few. I've spent a *lot* more than 100 hours on that (time gets away from you pretty easily) but expect some of those skills will cross over.
However what I would need to know for certain is how the software handles ISPs who release ips every few hours (to prevent just exactly this). Additionally up link is almost always a lot slower than downlink. I'd want to know the traffic burden (it should be minimal). Lastly if, as I suspect, I will have to get a fixed IP address to host then I'm back to a monthly. Doesn't matter if Forge gets the money or the ISP does.
Ages ago I ran a Never Winter Nights persistent world. It was a local and worked pretty well but that was before ISP started clamping down on fixed IPs. Bioware maintained servers supporting Never Winter Nights (to keep the ip links hot) for about 10 years then eventually stopped. Believe it or not the game engine was so good there was still a vibrant community after 10 years who were just abandoned.
There is a part of me that doesn't trust one time fees. Over time market share will shrink and there will be less incentive to support the product. They may choose to offset this by building Foundry 2.0 to compete with whatever cool new product that comes on the market and charge a whole new license fee (NWN tried that but their new product required artistic talent and so failed) while phasing out their old product (I've seen this happen too many times to not expect it).
Now don't get me wrong, there are obviously issues with Roll20, but it is a more stable platform AND I got to play with it for free for two years before I decided to subscribe. Foundry doesn't even offer me two weeks. That has never stuck me as a company that has faith in their product, even Microsoft gives you free trials!
I'm sorry, I'm a hard sell, but I know what would make it easy... whichever product Wizards buys I'll go with. I would think that Roll20 would have the edge in that as they are an online system with a built in income stream whereas Foundry is locally served and will be more of a maintenance/support pain. Even if Foundry is a superior product Roll20 fits better into the business model.
Good luck though.
Foundry does offer a 30 day return now. I just asked for mine, it was soooo over my head. I'm not looking to program and design, just give me a place to lay down some maps and tokens lol.
That is really good to know. I missed it on their web site. I will go look again.
Looked at Foundry when I started online Roleplaying, purchased it for a week and fiddled with it, looked far too much of a time investment and learning curve compared to Roll20. While it looks like it allows for more features that you can do with it in the end, it wasnt for me. So far, have not had many issues with Roll20 and it was easier to dive into. Im able to drag/drop maps, resize, reshape, place custom tokens and started dabbling with API scripts but I suspect due to the limited time I have, I wont be using them until they literally come 'pre-packaged' and ready to go.
When our group found Beyond20, it was a huge leap and bound, so we were happy with it to say the last, recently its formatting has taken a hit I guess due to D&D Beyond changing format of character sheets on the back end, so waiting for that to be tinkered and fixed.
I will take a look at a D&D Beyond Table top when it comes out, but ill be honest, Ive already put a lot of effort and work into Roll20 to get it to where I want it that just "up and moving" over to another VTT does not feel feasible nor constructive at this point. The D&D Beyond VTT has to be AS inuitive and customizable to use out of the box when it launches as I have things set up now for me to even consider it. Let alone the money I have placed into both platforms (Beyond and Roll20).
A year away from what? It works right now.
OK, here is how it goes. I've watched all 3 videos on YouTube about Above VTT. The fact that there are only three should be concerning of itself (and one if them is labeled OLD), In terms of a basic interface it looks like it can work.
My biggest issue with any VTT is, how much room does it demand on the desktop. Since every VTT has to have map space that is not part of my discussion. So I have to be able to move through maps AND battles with as little confiscation of my desktop as possible. To this end I have written about 30ish (with a bunch more to come) macros that take little from my desktop. What does that actually mean?
I write macros for all my monsters abilities and attacks. I do not have to, during combat open up a monster sheet to access attacks. This by itself is huge... but wait there is more.
I've uploaded an API (Roll20) that numbers my monsters automatically so I always know which one is which and players (when necessary) can refer to Goblin5 (or whatever)... but wait there is more. My scripts all handle, On/Off handedness, Advantage/Disadvantage, Critical Hits/Fumbles, cover (for archers, this is applied manually in the rare instance of a melee weapon facing cover) and allows for a very quick DM modification for ToHit and damage. The attack then applies damage automatically.
I can easily add weapons to PCs should they want to use an autoroller rather than manually working through their attack. All this takes up virtually no room and I don't have to refer to any character sheets.
But wait there is more... I loaded an API that provides a ring (aura) around each character to give anyone looking at it a general idea of how damaged it is.
When I'm dragging and dropping my monsters to the tabletop I've written a one button macro that will roll their HPs (rather than assigning the same number for all 10 goblins) and roll their initiative and place them on the turn tracker. These turn battles and flipping from monster to monster that bog down worse than face to face play into lightning. I click on the attack on the bar, I click on the target, I choose up to three different drop downs and/or add DM mods and I'm done the attack resolves and damage is applied, less than 10 seconds per monster (usually less than 5). It definitely takes longer to decide who to attack than to resolve the attack.
Almost all of these things rely on APIs written by the community and integrated into Roll20 server (except for one that isn't integrated but still free) giving me the ability to write these macros. I can find no indication that Above VTT has anything even remotely like this. They may not even ever decide to go that far, Foudry has but I'll wait until my current project is done before spending a month on it.
So there are things I see in my limited view of Above VTT, one of them is that all my DnDBeyond stuff will integrate seamlessly (and I won't have to buy it a second time), but unless I at least have the tools to replicate most of the above then... it's at least a year away if ever.
AboveVTT's main target is to be easy and just work(tm) for the majority of simple use-cases. It doesn't have advanced automation and it may never will. So it probably targets a different kind of playstyle than what you expect/like and it's ok :)
I just want to clarify some of things you pointed out
- AboveVTT does not require local disk space. The maps are always hosted elsewhere. If you see a nice free map on the internet you can just copy its link into the VTT and all players will get it directly from the original source (so it also requires less bandwidth than other configurations). They get it through the browser so it' not actually "saved" locally and browser already do a nice work with caching them and deleting them when needed. You always have to store your maps elsewhere.. and you can do it quickly with services like imgur or gdrive. (I think you can also setup foundry to use an AWS S3 bucket to store things.. or something like that... but you probably have to go through the process).
- We had automatic numbering of monsters (Goblin 1, Goblin 2 etc etc) and they were visible to players, BUT most DM didn't want players to see the name of the monsters. Right now every monster of the same type gets a different border color to idenfy them. You can also have any player double click on a token to point at it, so that it will flash for a couple second... I'd say that pointing at monsters during gameplay is generally not an issue.
- Auras for HP are ready in the dev version and they are going in the official plugin in a couple days.
- Rolling the maxhp for monsters instead of using the default is something that we will probably do.. it's more a matter of deciding how to do the UI part to let the user decide between average and roll.
Other things you pointed out are definitely missing and not even considered atm :) ... and of course the project is very young and we still don't have a lot of videos.. but more will come :)
Thank you for your time and effort.replying. I hope I can have the time to check it out, and I completely understand that you are still (and probably always will be) in development.
Specifically for me, I am writing content so using "free" maps may be problematic. Most "free" map creators are allowing you to use it, not make it part of a product for sale (but not always). I am currently fighting with Dungeon Painter Studio 2 in order to create my own maps. Having the map launch from a location that is not the host server does sound like a good idea.
As far as numbering goes, that sounds like a good solution. Of course there is no need to actually print the name of the monster, I don't generally mind that "common" monsters have name tag, whereas if a monster that would not be in the characters knowledge base pops up, then the name would not produce, just the number.
To be fair Roll20 doesn't auto number or have auras but they give the tools to do it and for those two items I just install an API.
The scripting I've done for my weapons is my code, again not directly provided by Roll20, but the tools are there.
Yeah, you are a different audience, and I wish you well