Quote from jdahveed >>

Quote from Golaryn >>

I think that they can use their bonus action to swap places between attacks, but I may be wrong.

 I would say the swap can be done between the main action and Action Surge, but not between a first attack and Extra Attack since they are tied to the same action.

 I tend to be fairly generous in regards to the where bonus actions fall on a player's turn in the games that I DM, but you are correct that it is probably not RAW.

Reading back, I agree I'm incorrect about using readied actions to get flanking advantage from an echo based attack. The timing is weird and the rules don't say you swap places with your echo, just that you attack from your echos position.

Quote from jdahveed >>

Quote from Golaryn >>

I think that they can use their bonus action to swap places between attacks, but I may be wrong.

 I would say the swap can be done between the main action and Action Surge, but not between a first attack and Extra Attack since they are tied to the same action.

The rule on Bonus Actions say you can take them whenever unless they have a timing condition specified. So you can take it whenever you like on your turn - even between Extra Attacks.

Bonus Actions
...
You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action.

 I stand corrected. Though I don't really agree that a "melee spell attack" is the same thing as swinging a sword, I won't argue the point either. 

Quote from Emmber >>

Quote from jdahveed >>

Quote from Golaryn >>

I think that they can use their bonus action to swap places between attacks, but I may be wrong.

 I would say the swap can be done between the main action and Action Surge, but not between a first attack and Extra Attack since they are tied to the same action.

The rule on Bonus Actions say you can take them whenever unless they have a timing condition specified. So you can take it whenever you like on your turn - even between Extra Attacks.

Bonus Actions
...
You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action.

 That definitely improves the action economy for the fighter trying to tactically engage 2 targets, assuming they a) don't have to summon a new echo that turn, and b) aren't using their BA for another attack like from Pole Arm Master or Crossbow Expert. 

I feel that since it is an echo of yourself, it would possess your abilities for the purpose of reactions. 

Quote from Spartan431bc >>

I feel that since it is an echo of yourself, it would possess your abilities for the purpose of reactions. 

 That is incorrect. The only reaction it can do, is trigger an opportunity attack for you. It doesn't "do" anything, it's merely a portal for your attacks. 

so here is two different questions then. 

1: when you fire a ranged attack from you echo does it still consume ammunition? or does it fire an "echo arrow"

2: due to the constantly repeated "its not a creature" does that mean that it itself doesnt provoke AOO when it leaves combat? 

Quote from sad85XD >>

so here is two different questions then. 

1: when you fire a ranged attack from you echo does it still consume ammunition? or does it fire an "echo arrow"

2: due to the constantly repeated "its not a creature" does that mean that it itself doesnt provoke AOO when it leaves combat? 

1. Yes it does still consume ammunition because even if the attack originates from the Echo's space - it's still you making the attack.
2. No it does not provoke opportunity attacks because they require the target to be a creature.

Can the echo be attacked at all? From the 'making an attack' section in the PHB: "1. Choose a target. Pick a target within your attack's range: a creature, an object, or a location." As a magic effect, does it count as an object (since it does occupy its space)?

ETA: Never mind, Jeremy Crawford confirms it as 'object.'

Yep, it's an object. It can be affected by attacks, but not most AoE spells. (It's unknown whether it's flammable or not, so fireball may or may not destroy it. Up to the DM)

follow up question. If you had an echo out and you were polymorphed into, lets say, a T-rex. Would your Echo now look like a T-rex? and could you still use the Echo like normal? 

Yes, you could use it as normal. It could look like a T-Rex if the DM says it does, the rules aren't clear on this. So whether it is a gray humanoid echo that makes bite attacks or turns into a gray T-Rex is not clear. 

That's definitely in the realms of "not covered by the rules - up to the DM".

It says the Echo is a version of 'you'. Whether that means the usual you or the polymorphed version of you isn't clear. Slight correction for Levi though - the Echo says it's the same size as you - so there's nothing forcing it to be medium.

Hi all.  I've been following this thread, and it has gotten me thinking about all the possibilities for Echo Knights. 

I find the fun and potential for Echo Knights to be really awesome, and over the course of learning about them, and reading the various debates, my perception of them has changed.  At first I thought of Echos as physical clones of the main character, able to take independent actions.  Now I view them more like illusions or ghost through which the main character can themselves attack or spy.

I find the mechanics are a mishmash of other D&D rules and features.  For example, the Trickery Cleric's Invoke Duplicity ability, the Spiritual Weapon spell, or even Bigby's Hand.  While I truly love the concept, and the versatility and tactics it allows, there are clearly a number of unresolved mechanical issues. 

This has led me to try to create an Unofficial Echo Knight F.A.Q. of sorts to try to collect all the various questions and rules in one place.  Many of the questions for the FAQ came from this thread.  What I thought would be a small project turned into a much larger one.  But feel free to take a look, suggest additions to it, or argue for changes. 

This imperfect attempt at trying to make sense of Echo Knight rules is also for the community, and to help others understand what they are or are not capable of within the rules.  That said, any DM or game can rule different.  And I'm sure there is still much debate to be had.  Anyway, please enjoy if you're interested.  

Terrain is not an ally. There is a difference between using your environment for a tactical advantage and something being your ally. For something to be considered your ally it has to make a choice to aid you in some way. And you don't have to take my word for that, check the Oxford English Dictionary.  Its wonderfully creative personification to say the terrain is your ally much like saying the sun is smiling today or that chocolate is my best friend. Creatures in D&D can make choices. Even unthinking creatures like golems and plants and oozes can make choices in game terms. Objects and effects don't so they are not your ally. And I agree its totally fine and logical for a DM to say the target is disadvantaged because their back is against the wall or because they are adjacent to your Echo, but that doesn't make either of those things your ally.

If you want some echo knight hilarity that actually does work, just get a wizard with the enlarge spell, and cast it on the echo knight. The echo is considered to be the same size as it's creator, so you end up with an enlarged echo knight and an enlarged echo as well.

(Also works with spells like Polymorph, Shapechange, True Polymorph and abilities like Wild Shape)

Quote from Sumisusenpai >>

If you want some echo knight hilarity that actually does work, just get a wizard with the enlarge spell, and cast it on the echo knight. The echo is considered to be the same size as it's creator, so you end up with an enlarged echo knight and an enlarged echo as well.

Love this idea.

Mat Mercer describes the echo as an alternate timeline of yourself so id rule you yourself can't gain advantage off of it but an ally could.