Hello everybody, this question has come over me time and time again, whenever I make a character I am always thinking about the aesthetic side of it. I want to picture my Variant Human Ranger (with the dual wielder feat of course) dual wielding longswords and striking his foes down using his dexterity modifier of course. Exactly my point is Drizzt Do'Urden, you don't see Drizzt dual wielding Rapiers at any point, you see him dual wielding LONGSWORDS even though he is a Dextrous character through and through. I feel that longswords should have an exception that longswords should have an exception that they can use a Dex modifier or a Strength one.
I wanted to hear your thoughts on this question
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Firstly, you would need longswords to have [wprop]light[/wprop] andfinesse to dual wield them using dex, not just finesse.
Secondly, longswords are already 1d8/1d10 versatile weapons, giving them light and finesse is just too much.
Thirdly, looking at the official art, Drizzt isn't using longswords but shortswords or possibly scimitars. His weapons are both arm-length, single grip weapons, not double grip (or even one and half hand grip) long blades. Both shortswords and scimitars have light and finesse, meaning you can dual wield them using dex.
Are you sure? Aren't scimitars the swords sailors use?
<----- Scimitar
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Firstly, you would need longswords to have lightandfinesse to dual wield them using dex, not just finesse.
Secondly, longswords are already 1d8/1d10 versatile weapons, giving them light and finesse is just too much.
Thirdly, looking at the official art, Drizzt isn't using longswords but shortswords or possibly scimitars. His weapons are both arm-length, single grip weapons, not double grip (or even one and half hand grip) long blades. Both shortswords and scimitars have light and finesse, meaning you can dual wield them using dex.
I guess so, ha, I had never seen that Thanks.
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REMEMBER: Wizards Of The Coast does not own DDB, they are two different companies. When you buy a physical book, WotC receives the money you bought it for, not DDB and vice versa. If you want a digital key to get an online book for free because you have the hardcopy book then DDB makes no money because you don't buy off DDB you buy off WotC, so please stop making threads about this issue. DDB needs money to continue helping people and servers aren't cheap.
Drizzt swords however look more straight then curved, I feel they would be more Shortsword like what Davedamon said rather than a Scimitar, but I understand where you're getting at, there is a slight curvature in his swords.
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REMEMBER: Wizards Of The Coast does not own DDB, they are two different companies. When you buy a physical book, WotC receives the money you bought it for, not DDB and vice versa. If you want a digital key to get an online book for free because you have the hardcopy book then DDB makes no money because you don't buy off DDB you buy off WotC, so please stop making threads about this issue. DDB needs money to continue helping people and servers aren't cheap.
The novels clearly represent the weapons as scimitars, they are curved, slashing damage type, and rather light. Afaik this was also represented in other D&D sources from previous editions.
Are you sure? Aren't scimitars the swords sailors use?
<----- Scimitar
Sailors used cutlasses. Similar concept (and I'd reskin a scimitar to be a cutlass rather than anything else). Though, and I will always give credit where it is due, what you have pictured IS a scimitar still.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Are you sure? Aren't scimitars the swords sailors use?
<----- Scimitar
Sailors used cutlasses. Similar concept (and I'd reskin a scimitar to be a cutlass rather than anything else). Though, and I will always give credit where it is due, what you have pictured IS a scimitar still.
I read The_Phantom_User’s post that you quoted and was just about to write what you wrote when I saw you wrote it first.
Anyone who has read the books or played Baldur's Gate knows that Drizzt uses scimitars. Also, sailors aren't restricted to using only cutlasses (which rules-wise would be scimitars) and people who aren't sailors can also use cutlasses. If you want to dual wield long swords, just take the dual wielder feat.
Basically, since 5E has simplified the weapons selection (which is good, IMO) you must remember that certain weapons in the list covers more than one specific weapon type. Think of it something like this:
Daggers: Tiny stabby things. Could be anything from a stiletto to a dirk or a (fantasy equivalent) KABAR fighting knife.
Short swords: Small but not tiny stabby things. Anything from smallswords (the fencing weapon) to cinquedeas to gladii.
Rapiers: Larger stabby weapons. Except for rapiers this would include Chinese jian, later era backswords and some 19th century pattern military swords.
Scimitars: Small choppy swords, not necessarily with a curved blade. Including but not limited to sabers, cutlasses medieval sideswords, falchions, machetes, Chinese hook swords, Messers and even viking era swords (since they were primarily used for chopping and not thrusting).
Long swords: Bigger choppy swords that might need two hands to use. Long swords (obviously), bastard swords, Grossemessers, katanas and the like. I'd probably include the weird "choppas" from the Morgan Bible in here as well since they seem to be intended to be used mostly two handed.
Greatswords: Even bigger choppy swords. Greatswords, Zweihanders, odachi, Kriegsmessers and so on. Weapons that you positively need to use with two hands.
This of course still leaves quite a few weapons of the list but taking inspiration from what the PHB says about Monk weapons you can easily turn a Sickle (or even a hand axe) into a Kukri or a spear into an Estoc. The DM is the limit, really. :)
You've also got Magic that can be involved. Take a look at the Moonblade options (which are all longswords), which have strong magic that can include Finesse options in them. Just because it's not intended from a practical standpoint, doesn't mean that Magic can't compensate. Just have strong reasoning behind it. As you wouldn't be dual-wielding Moonblades (because there would only be one per family line), that wouldn't mean you couldn't use it with Dexterity.
The sword groupings in 5e don't map perfectly (or you could say well at all) to real swords.
In reality swords vary by the number of hands used to wield, one, two or possibly either. This does match up well with 1handed, 2handed or veristile.
The problem comes with piercing vs slashing damage. In reality some swords are highly specialised for thrusting (piercing damage in game) others for cutting (slashing damage in game) but there were also (most common?) cut and thrust swords that could do both. A cut centric sword like a katana could also thrust pretty well or even a very highly cut centric sword like a tulwar could also thrust even if not as efficiently as other sword types.
Longswords in the European setting typically mean a longer cut and thrust sword that could be used in 1hand or 2 handed and therefore had a longer grip. As time and armour advanced they tended to be come more focused on thusting to overcome plate armour with techniques like half-swording to 'get in the gaps'.
At the end of the day none of this really matters 5e is about balance and fun not 'historical' (its fantasy after all) accuracy. The rules around two weapon fighting are very much about balance. As are the strength, dexterity and finese rules.
Call the swords what you want and use stats and properties that are the best sensible match without blowing the game balance. Let's be honest 2 longswords is a bit rich at d8 each, d6 is more reasonable for balance so use scimitar stats.
As has already been said DD uses Scimitar's - and is highly cliched now. Wander around many online open world rpg type games and you will see thousands of characters walking around with variations in the spelling of the name, many followed by a number because the name has been used so many times over and over.
The concept of the longsword in DnD is also incorrect as mentioned in the post above. The were often used two handed with one on the hilt and one on the blade. Typically only the bottom half was sharpened to allow the user to do this without cutting his fingers off.
As has already been said DD uses Scimitar's - and is highly cliched now. Wander around many online open world rpg type games and you will see thousands of characters walking around with variations in the spelling of the name, many followed by a number because the name has been used so many times over and over.
The concept of the longsword in DnD is also incorrect as mentioned in the post above. The were often used two handed with one on the hilt and one on the blade. Typically only the bottom half was sharpened to allow the user to do this without cutting his fingers off.
I think the correct term for the weapon that is the longsword in D&D would actually be the arming sword
I believe arming swords where short griped and 1 handed. Very much the side-arm of their day.
For an arming sword I use shortswords stats. Although they where cut and thust weopons with many examples becoming more 'thrusty' over time as armour improved
Historically the term longsword is used for every thing from hand and a halfs to true 2 handers. I'm not confidant on this but I think hand and a half, and bastard sword are more recent terms.
A typical European longsword did have a grip long enough for two hands and typically was used 2 handed (and probably made to be) but they were lighter than most people think a good size one being maybe 1.5kg, many under that, so they could and were (how often is open to debate) wielded 1 handed (according to what evidence there is). For this type of sword I think the 5e longsword works with the versitile property (even if it is 'slashing' damage).
For proper 2 handers like a zweihander which could be over 3kg then 5e greatsword stats work, IMO.
Edit for waffle; Yeah I agree the 5e longsword fits fairly well with what most people think of as a hand and half sword
Historical longswords could and were used one-handed even though many techniques relied on twohanded grips. Few if any practical sword weighs as much as 3 kilograms (that's more than 6 and a half pounds) and no, it's a myth that "only the bottom half was sharpened to allow the user to do this without cutting his fingers off." It is perfectly doable to grip a sharp blade with your bare hand without cutting your fingers off. Some swords (especially later military issue) were not sharpened on the bottom part of the blade to make it stronger for parries and often the blade wasn't sharpened at all unless you were actually preparing to go to war.
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Hello everybody, this question has come over me time and time again, whenever I make a character I am always thinking about the aesthetic side of it. I want to picture my Variant Human Ranger (with the dual wielder feat of course) dual wielding longswords and striking his foes down using his dexterity modifier of course. Exactly my point is Drizzt Do'Urden, you don't see Drizzt dual wielding Rapiers at any point, you see him dual wielding LONGSWORDS even though he is a Dextrous character through and through. I feel that longswords should have an exception that longswords should have an exception that they can use a Dex modifier or a Strength one.
I wanted to hear your thoughts on this question
REMEMBER: Wizards Of The Coast does not own DDB, they are two different companies. When you buy a physical book, WotC receives the money you bought it for, not DDB and vice versa. If you want a digital key to get an online book for free because you have the hardcopy book then DDB makes no money because you don't buy off DDB you buy off WotC, so please stop making threads about this issue. DDB needs money to continue helping people and servers aren't cheap.
Firstly, you would need longswords to have [wprop]light[/wprop] and finesse to dual wield them using dex, not just finesse.
Secondly, longswords are already 1d8/1d10 versatile weapons, giving them light and finesse is just too much.
Thirdly, looking at the official art, Drizzt isn't using longswords but shortswords or possibly scimitars. His weapons are both arm-length, single grip weapons, not double grip (or even one and half hand grip) long blades. Both shortswords and scimitars have light and finesse, meaning you can dual wield them using dex.
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Drizzt is using two scimitars.
Are you sure? Aren't scimitars the swords sailors use?
REMEMBER: Wizards Of The Coast does not own DDB, they are two different companies. When you buy a physical book, WotC receives the money you bought it for, not DDB and vice versa. If you want a digital key to get an online book for free because you have the hardcopy book then DDB makes no money because you don't buy off DDB you buy off WotC, so please stop making threads about this issue. DDB needs money to continue helping people and servers aren't cheap.
I guess so, ha, I had never seen that Thanks.
REMEMBER: Wizards Of The Coast does not own DDB, they are two different companies. When you buy a physical book, WotC receives the money you bought it for, not DDB and vice versa. If you want a digital key to get an online book for free because you have the hardcopy book then DDB makes no money because you don't buy off DDB you buy off WotC, so please stop making threads about this issue. DDB needs money to continue helping people and servers aren't cheap.
They are swords that were used in the Oriental area.
There are several known variants to the curvature.
Drizzt swords however look more straight then curved, I feel they would be more Shortsword like what Davedamon said rather than a Scimitar, but I understand where you're getting at, there is a slight curvature in his swords.
REMEMBER: Wizards Of The Coast does not own DDB, they are two different companies. When you buy a physical book, WotC receives the money you bought it for, not DDB and vice versa. If you want a digital key to get an online book for free because you have the hardcopy book then DDB makes no money because you don't buy off DDB you buy off WotC, so please stop making threads about this issue. DDB needs money to continue helping people and servers aren't cheap.
The novels clearly represent the weapons as scimitars, they are curved, slashing damage type, and rather light. Afaik this was also represented in other D&D sources from previous editions.
Sailors used cutlasses. Similar concept (and I'd reskin a scimitar to be a cutlass rather than anything else). Though, and I will always give credit where it is due, what you have pictured IS a scimitar still.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I read The_Phantom_User’s post that you quoted and was just about to write what you wrote when I saw you wrote it first.
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Anyone who has read the books or played Baldur's Gate knows that Drizzt uses scimitars. Also, sailors aren't restricted to using only cutlasses (which rules-wise would be scimitars) and people who aren't sailors can also use cutlasses. If you want to dual wield long swords, just take the dual wielder feat.
Basically, since 5E has simplified the weapons selection (which is good, IMO) you must remember that certain weapons in the list covers more than one specific weapon type. Think of it something like this:
This of course still leaves quite a few weapons of the list but taking inspiration from what the PHB says about Monk weapons you can easily turn a Sickle (or even a hand axe) into a Kukri or a spear into an Estoc. The DM is the limit, really. :)
You've also got Magic that can be involved. Take a look at the Moonblade options (which are all longswords), which have strong magic that can include Finesse options in them. Just because it's not intended from a practical standpoint, doesn't mean that Magic can't compensate. Just have strong reasoning behind it. As you wouldn't be dual-wielding Moonblades (because there would only be one per family line), that wouldn't mean you couldn't use it with Dexterity.
The sword groupings in 5e don't map perfectly (or you could say well at all) to real swords.
In reality swords vary by the number of hands used to wield, one, two or possibly either. This does match up well with 1handed, 2handed or veristile.
The problem comes with piercing vs slashing damage. In reality some swords are highly specialised for thrusting (piercing damage in game) others for cutting (slashing damage in game) but there were also (most common?) cut and thrust swords that could do both. A cut centric sword like a katana could also thrust pretty well or even a very highly cut centric sword like a tulwar could also thrust even if not as efficiently as other sword types.
Longswords in the European setting typically mean a longer cut and thrust sword that could be used in 1hand or 2 handed and therefore had a longer grip. As time and armour advanced they tended to be come more focused on thusting to overcome plate armour with techniques like half-swording to 'get in the gaps'.
At the end of the day none of this really matters 5e is about balance and fun not 'historical' (its fantasy after all) accuracy. The rules around two weapon fighting are very much about balance. As are the strength, dexterity and finese rules.
Call the swords what you want and use stats and properties that are the best sensible match without blowing the game balance. Let's be honest 2 longswords is a bit rich at d8 each, d6 is more reasonable for balance so use scimitar stats.
As has already been said DD uses Scimitar's - and is highly cliched now. Wander around many online open world rpg type games and you will see thousands of characters walking around with variations in the spelling of the name, many followed by a number because the name has been used so many times over and over.
The concept of the longsword in DnD is also incorrect as mentioned in the post above. The were often used two handed with one on the hilt and one on the blade. Typically only the bottom half was sharpened to allow the user to do this without cutting his fingers off.
I think the correct term for the weapon that is the longsword in D&D would actually be the arming sword
I believe arming swords where short griped and 1 handed. Very much the side-arm of their day.
For an arming sword I use shortswords stats. Although they where cut and thust weopons with many examples becoming more 'thrusty' over time as armour improved
Well... then bastard sword or one-and-a-half-hander... but the actual longsword would be a two-handed sword.
Dude we are going down the rabbit hole now :)
Historically the term longsword is used for every thing from hand and a halfs to true 2 handers. I'm not confidant on this but I think hand and a half, and bastard sword are more recent terms.
A typical European longsword did have a grip long enough for two hands and typically was used 2 handed (and probably made to be) but they were lighter than most people think a good size one being maybe 1.5kg, many under that, so they could and were (how often is open to debate) wielded 1 handed (according to what evidence there is). For this type of sword I think the 5e longsword works with the versitile property (even if it is 'slashing' damage).
For proper 2 handers like a zweihander which could be over 3kg then 5e greatsword stats work, IMO.
Edit for waffle; Yeah I agree the 5e longsword fits fairly well with what most people think of as a hand and half sword
They are too long for that dextrous halfing to wield with finesse.
And yeah, read the books, Drizzt had scimitars.
Historical longswords could and were used one-handed even though many techniques relied on twohanded grips. Few if any practical sword weighs as much as 3 kilograms (that's more than 6 and a half pounds) and no, it's a myth that "only the bottom half was sharpened to allow the user to do this without cutting his fingers off." It is perfectly doable to grip a sharp blade with your bare hand without cutting your fingers off. Some swords (especially later military issue) were not sharpened on the bottom part of the blade to make it stronger for parries and often the blade wasn't sharpened at all unless you were actually preparing to go to war.