The simplest setups are probably Barbarian (Totem: Bear) and Fighter (Champion), as in both case they don't have to do much but walk up to the enemy and start pounding away. If the DM is actually running 6-8 combats per day I'd consider the fighter easier, because poor resource management on second wind and action surge is less likely to cause serious problems than poor resource management on rage and reckless attack.
The simplest setups are probably Barbarian (Totem: Bear) and Fighter (Champion), as in both case they don't have to do much but walk up to the enemy and start pounding away. If the DM is actually running 6-8 combats per day I'd consider the fighter easier, because poor resource management on second wind and action surge is less likely to cause serious problems than poor resource management on rage and reckless attack.
^^ This
This is why I voted for fighter (as does seem to be the majority of the votes), it's not that barbarian is technically much more complicated, but the fighter almost has no resource management, and he's also more defensive in general (better AC) meaning that, if things go sour, he won't go down instantly, so it's more forgiving for beginning players.
Agreed. And except for Battle Master and Eldritch Knight, all of the rest of subclasses are very “beginner friendly.”
The simplest setups are probably Barbarian (Totem: Bear) and Fighter (Champion), as in both case they don't have to do much but walk up to the enemy and start pounding away. If the DM is actually running 6-8 combats per day I'd consider the fighter easier, because poor resource management on second wind and action surge is less likely to cause serious problems than poor resource management on rage and reckless attack.
^^ This
This is why I voted for fighter (as does seem to be the majority of the votes), it's not that barbarian is technically much more complicated, but the fighter almost has no resource management, and he's also more defensive in general (better AC) meaning that, if things go sour, he won't go down instantly, so it's more forgiving for beginning players.
Agreed. And except for Battle Master and Eldritch Knight, all of the rest of subclasses are very “beginner friendly.”
Except that they are very boring for any kind of player who wants to do more than "hit enemy with sword, then hit them again". The best advice has lready been given, allow the player to play the character they want to play and guide them along as you go. Out of the mentioned classes in the OP, Rogue is probably the best one since it's so versatile.
Rogues are versatile, but they're not a class that's forgiving of making mistakes while playing. With only light armor proficiency, it's tough to get a high AC, especially early on if you're using point buy or standard array. And they don't usually have the HP to take the hits.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Agreed. And except for Battle Master and Eldritch Knight, all of the rest of subclasses are very “beginner friendly.”
Except that they are very boring for any kind of player who wants to do more than "hit enemy with sword, then hit them again". The best advice has lready been given, allow the player to play the character they want to play and guide them along as you go. Out of the mentioned classes in the OP, Rogue is probably the best one since it's so versatile.
Cavalier, Samurai, Echo Knight and Arcane Archer are all far from boring. Add to that the UA options of Rune Knight and Psi Knight and you have a lot of options. Gunslinger I would put in the same category as the Battle Master, which is to say still not too complicated and very very not boring. Eldritch Knight takes a bit of experience to get the most out of it though.
Cavalier, Samurai, Echo Knight and Arcane Archer are all far from boring. Add to that the UA options of Rune Knight and Psi Knight and you have a lot of options. Gunslinger I would put in the same category as the Battle Master, which is to say still not too complicated and very very not boring. Eldritch Knight takes a bit of experience to get the most out of it though.
Well, or just let someone else suggest a spell list for you. It's not like taking absorb elements, expeditious retreat and shield is either complicated to play or bad choices.
Cavalier, Samurai, Echo Knight and Arcane Archer are all far from boring. Add to that the UA options of Rune Knight and Psi Knight and you have a lot of options. Gunslinger I would put in the same category as the Battle Master, which is to say still not too complicated and very very not boring. Eldritch Knight takes a bit of experience to get the most out of it though.
Well, or just let someone else suggest a spell list for you. It's not like taking absorb elements, expeditious retreat and [/spell]shield[/spell] is either complicated to play or bad choices.
No, but proper response management is very important for EKs, and since that’s the major part of the subclass, when done poorly it can leave you kinda boned. It’s probably the least forgiving Fighter Subclass.
Agreed. And except for Battle Master and Eldritch Knight, all of the rest of subclasses are very “beginner friendly.”
Except that they are very boring for any kind of player who wants to do more than "hit enemy with sword, then hit them again". The best advice has lready been given, allow the player to play the character they want to play and guide them along as you go. Out of the mentioned classes in the OP, Rogue is probably the best one since it's so versatile.
This was not the best advice by far and the poll shows it, as it did not answer the original question, which was simply the easiest / simplest. On top of this, choosing a class still leaves you free to go for less simple archetypes if you feel like it after experimenting for a few levels.
Is your argument really going to be "no, encouraing people to have fun is not a good advice since that wasn't technically the question asked"?
On top of this Rogue being versatile is debatable compared to even fighter classes. And, as mentioned earlier, it is probably the furthest from being simple/easy, as mentioned they are not that forgiving and you will probably be expected to be in charge of exploration if not the face of the party, and takes a bit of experience as well, usually. Some people - like me - really really like it, and some people might discover quickly that they have a knack for it, but it's another different facet of the game that does not contribute to simplicity and ease of play.
You are objectively wrong or you have your own very weird definition of "simple" and "easy". Rogue have, at level 1, more skills than most fighters which means that it is easier for them to do stuff. They also have expertise which makes them better at doing certain things which makes those tasks even easier. This means that if the player wants to try something they are more likely to succeed which means more fun for the player. But still, objectively, you are wrong. Being good at stuff makes those stuff easier.
Is your argument really going to be "no, encouraing people to have fun is not a good advice since that wasn't technically the question asked"? You must be fun at parties.
If someone asks a question, it's legitimate to say "Are you sure that's actually the question you want to ask?", but that doesn't change what is an accurate answer to the question they did ask.
Lostwhilefishing, I think by easier/simpler they aren't referring to how easy it is to do stuff every character can do. They may mean, like how I meant; how easy it is to play and use the features and tactics. Not just at level 1, either, because you'll probably be 2nd level by the end of first session - you progress through the first few levels very quickly so it is better to evaluate multiple levels not just the 1st.
You say the "go with what seems fun" advice is best but if I was the one asking the question and got that advice I'd be disappointed - it wouldn't be helpful and isn't what I asked. The question was about what class out of the 4 presented would be easiest for newbies to learn D&D with. The answer will be the one that can be played without so many complicated features, resource management or special rules and where you don't have to be too strategic in your thinking, which lets them pay more attention to the general rules of D&D and get used to how to play.
In my group a guy loved the idea of spellcasters but frankly struggled to try and understand them and learn to play D&D at the same time and that was spoiling it for him. He switched to a bugbear champion Fighter. He didn't have to think too much about the class things so he was able to learn D&D more easily. He had a lot of fun too and kept with the character for a long time. After a TPK he had grown the confidence with D&D to tackle the more challenging to play spellcasters, he picked Bard that eventually multiclassed to Wizard. Since he already knew the basic of D&D it was easier for him to focus on learning spellcasting and its mechanics - he became quite proficient with his spells and making use of his bard abilities too. Something that, at the start he thought he'd never have understood. Playing a simpler class like Fighter dramatically helped him and his confidence with D&D to more easily move to more complicated classes that were more fun for him.
There are others much like him.
There are also exceptions, like me, who were able to go straight into spellcasting classes. However, I had the advantage of being quick at learning systems like this and playing similar things before, reading about magic in stories, thinking about my own stories with magic - since the age of 4.
And some people may not have the background and just have a knack. But we're more exceptions rather than the rule, generically speaking. There are many people who would find going straight to spellcasting and learning D&D altogether too complicated and spoils it - having a simpler "intro" class makes it easier for them to learn the base game before worring about complicated classes, however more fun they might be.
And this is what the OP is asking for. Which 4 of the classes given, is better as a intro class in that frame of mind.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I think the OP was wise to put up a poll to get a simple answer, and hopefully it was helpful to them.
Perhaps the secondary (albeit unspoken) question many of us were itching to answer was, "How do we help a beginner have a good first experience playing D&D?" Or maybe "How do we help them have a good experience with a character type they are interested in?"
I think it's sort of the "question behind the question."
I think the OP was wise to put up a poll to get a simple answer, and hopefully it was helpful to them.
Perhaps the secondary (albeit unspoken) question many of us were itching to answer was, "How do we help a beginner have a good first experience playing D&D?" Or maybe "How do we help them have a good experience with a character type they are interested in?"
I think it's sort of the "question behind the question."
I remember when I first started playing D&D in the way-back-when....
My friend who was the DM told me and my more experienced friend to each make one character. My friend started to say something and the DM shot him a look. I noticed it, but had no idea what it meant. My friend must have, because he clammed up right away. The DM asked my friend to help me make my first character. I wanted to make a Greatsword wielding behemoth like Conan. The DM and my friend both convinced me to make a different character. So after about an hour we were ready to play, I had a character designed to be a longbow user.
We started playing, and within ten minutes my character had found a coin purse in a pile of junk in a desk. My character started to investigate the purse. Upon opening it, the DM told me I could see a platinum coin in the bottom of it (back then that was a fortune for a 1st level PC). I stated that my character was going to get the coin out. My friend who was the other player started to say something and the DM quickly shot him another look and informed him that his character didn’t see this happening. My friend again clammed up. The DM asked specifically if my character had put their hand into the purse. I looked at my buddy who was near about to explode keeping his mouth shut. I said, “No, I turn it upside down to shake the coin out.” The DM informed me that nothing fell out. I said that my PC looked into the bag again. The DM informed me that I could still see the coin in there. I said “Okay, I put my hand into the purse.
The purse turned out to be a Bag of Devouring (they worked differently back then) and it bit my character’s right hand off. My PC lost his right hand and almost died (he only had 6HP, that was normal back then). I was very upset (we were all kids). The DM told me that D&D was not a game where we could run around like idiots doing foolish things without consequences. Characters died. I needed to know that.
At that point our fourth finally arrived. The DM instructed each of us to make three PCs for the real adventure that was about to start.
I realized that my DM has been doing me a favor. I learned that PCs died, and that I shouldn’t get too attached to them so quickly. By having me make that first PC as something other than what I really wanted, I was spared the hurt of that experience happening to a character I was really attached to. I learned a lot about D&D, education, and friendship that day.
I hope something from the story of that experience is helpful in some way.
Please read the original question and have the look at the poll, I believe that my position has been widely vindicated by the results. Simplicity is in itself a simple and objective question which I think has been fully answered by the majority here. As for “fun” which is not the subject of this thread, it is a very subjective subject in itself. Tastes vary and some people will have more fun with a simple character especially at start while some will relish complexity and a wealth of options right at start. It’s very subjective, and you are absolutely welcome to start a separate thread about the “fun” of character classes at various levels, to which I will gladly answer differently than in this one.
As for the rogues, which is one of my favourite class, your argument seems to be that, because they are better a a wider array of things, they are also easier to play. I do not agree with this at all, having a wider array of possibilities make the character harder to play because you have to choose from a wider selection of options. Having more limited options is exactly what the initial question was about. It does not necessarily make it more or less fun in itself, but it obviously makes it more manageable by a beginner, fewer things to memorise, fewer things to juggle, and, in the case of the rogue, not having to worry about exploration and reconnaissance which require a set of playing skills that is on top of understanding all the basic game concepts like combat, rounds, actions, skills, etc.
Do you even read what people write before you reply? All of those points have been answered already, at this point you are just a broken record. Objectively, you are wrong. Objectively, it is easier to be good at something. Objecttively, a first level Rogue is better at more skills than a first level Fighter. You can keep up with your inane "nu-uh!" but you're still going to be wrong.
Do you even read what people write before you reply? All of those points have been answered already, at this point you are just a broken record. Objectively, you are wrong. Objectively, it is easier to be good at something. Objecttively, a first level Rogue is better at more skills than a first level Fighter. You can keep up with your inane "nu-uh!" but you're still going to be wrong.
Being good at things (when other PCs are not) creates the expectation that you will actually take charge of solving those things. It is thus harder (though more engaging) to be good at skills. The core skillset of a fighter is fighting, which is part of everyone's skill set, so you aren't expected to take solo charge of anything. By comparison, doing things like scouting (Stealth) is prone to being a deathtrap even for experienced players (there's a tendency to sneak forward past the point at which you can survive if you fail a check -- and then fail a check).
Being good at things (when other PCs are not) creates the expectation that you will actually take charge of solving those things. It is thus harder (though more engaging) to be good at skills. The core skillset of a fighter is fighting, which is part of everyone's skill set, so you aren't expected to take solo charge of anything. By comparison, doing things like scouting (Stealth) is prone to being a deathtrap even for experienced players (there's a tendency to sneak forward past the point at which you can survive if you fail a check -- and then fail a check).
Even things like getting through a door or opening a chest, listening, looking at the keyhole, checking for traps, taking preventive countermeasures, picking locks, etc. are not necessarily difficult, but there is a bit of a learning curve, and it's fairly stressful if the DM knows his job. :D
You are making the false assumptions that just because you are playing a rogue you would *have to* do those things and that it would be "stressful". That is a completely subjective statement from your side.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Defense style, colossus slayer... all you need.
Cult of Sedge
Rangers are the best, and have always been the best
I love Homebrew
I hate paladins
Warrior Bovine
The simplest setups are probably Barbarian (Totem: Bear) and Fighter (Champion), as in both case they don't have to do much but walk up to the enemy and start pounding away. If the DM is actually running 6-8 combats per day I'd consider the fighter easier, because poor resource management on second wind and action surge is less likely to cause serious problems than poor resource management on rage and reckless attack.
And watch how many players will take any other options because they think they sound nifty.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Agreed. And except for Battle Master and Eldritch Knight, all of the rest of subclasses are very “beginner friendly.”
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
This ^ is 100% true, thats why u need to guide the new guys.
Cult of Sedge
Rangers are the best, and have always been the best
I love Homebrew
I hate paladins
Warrior Bovine
Except that they are very boring for any kind of player who wants to do more than "hit enemy with sword, then hit them again". The best advice has lready been given, allow the player to play the character they want to play and guide them along as you go. Out of the mentioned classes in the OP, Rogue is probably the best one since it's so versatile.
Rogues are versatile, but they're not a class that's forgiving of making mistakes while playing. With only light armor proficiency, it's tough to get a high AC, especially early on if you're using point buy or standard array. And they don't usually have the HP to take the hits.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Cavalier, Samurai, Echo Knight and Arcane Archer are all far from boring. Add to that the UA options of Rune Knight and Psi Knight and you have a lot of options. Gunslinger I would put in the same category as the Battle Master, which is to say still not too complicated and very very not boring. Eldritch Knight takes a bit of experience to get the most out of it though.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
The question was 'simplest/easiest'.
Well, or just let someone else suggest a spell list for you. It's not like taking absorb elements, expeditious retreat and shield is either complicated to play or bad choices.
No, but proper response management is very important for EKs, and since that’s the major part of the subclass, when done poorly it can leave you kinda boned. It’s probably the least forgiving Fighter Subclass.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Is your argument really going to be "no, encouraing people to have fun is not a good advice since that wasn't technically the question asked"?
You are objectively wrong or you have your own very weird definition of "simple" and "easy". Rogue have, at level 1, more skills than most fighters which means that it is easier for them to do stuff. They also have expertise which makes them better at doing certain things which makes those tasks even easier. This means that if the player wants to try something they are more likely to succeed which means more fun for the player. But still, objectively, you are wrong. Being good at stuff makes those stuff easier.
If someone asks a question, it's legitimate to say "Are you sure that's actually the question you want to ask?", but that doesn't change what is an accurate answer to the question they did ask.
Lostwhilefishing, I think by easier/simpler they aren't referring to how easy it is to do stuff every character can do. They may mean, like how I meant; how easy it is to play and use the features and tactics. Not just at level 1, either, because you'll probably be 2nd level by the end of first session - you progress through the first few levels very quickly so it is better to evaluate multiple levels not just the 1st.
You say the "go with what seems fun" advice is best but if I was the one asking the question and got that advice I'd be disappointed - it wouldn't be helpful and isn't what I asked. The question was about what class out of the 4 presented would be easiest for newbies to learn D&D with. The answer will be the one that can be played without so many complicated features, resource management or special rules and where you don't have to be too strategic in your thinking, which lets them pay more attention to the general rules of D&D and get used to how to play.
In my group a guy loved the idea of spellcasters but frankly struggled to try and understand them and learn to play D&D at the same time and that was spoiling it for him. He switched to a bugbear champion Fighter. He didn't have to think too much about the class things so he was able to learn D&D more easily. He had a lot of fun too and kept with the character for a long time. After a TPK he had grown the confidence with D&D to tackle the more challenging to play spellcasters, he picked Bard that eventually multiclassed to Wizard. Since he already knew the basic of D&D it was easier for him to focus on learning spellcasting and its mechanics - he became quite proficient with his spells and making use of his bard abilities too. Something that, at the start he thought he'd never have understood. Playing a simpler class like Fighter dramatically helped him and his confidence with D&D to more easily move to more complicated classes that were more fun for him.
There are others much like him.
There are also exceptions, like me, who were able to go straight into spellcasting classes. However, I had the advantage of being quick at learning systems like this and playing similar things before, reading about magic in stories, thinking about my own stories with magic - since the age of 4.
And some people may not have the background and just have a knack. But we're more exceptions rather than the rule, generically speaking. There are many people who would find going straight to spellcasting and learning D&D altogether too complicated and spoils it - having a simpler "intro" class makes it easier for them to learn the base game before worring about complicated classes, however more fun they might be.
And this is what the OP is asking for. Which 4 of the classes given, is better as a intro class in that frame of mind.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I think the OP was wise to put up a poll to get a simple answer, and hopefully it was helpful to them.
Perhaps the secondary (albeit unspoken) question many of us were itching to answer was, "How do we help a beginner have a good first experience playing D&D?" Or maybe "How do we help them have a good experience with a character type they are interested in?"
I think it's sort of the "question behind the question."
Fighter. Obviously.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I remember when I first started playing D&D in the way-back-when....
My friend who was the DM told me and my more experienced friend to each make one character. My friend started to say something and the DM shot him a look. I noticed it, but had no idea what it meant. My friend must have, because he clammed up right away. The DM asked my friend to help me make my first character. I wanted to make a Greatsword wielding behemoth like Conan. The DM and my friend both convinced me to make a different character. So after about an hour we were ready to play, I had a character designed to be a longbow user.
We started playing, and within ten minutes my character had found a coin purse in a pile of junk in a desk. My character started to investigate the purse. Upon opening it, the DM told me I could see a platinum coin in the bottom of it (back then that was a fortune for a 1st level PC). I stated that my character was going to get the coin out. My friend who was the other player started to say something and the DM quickly shot him another look and informed him that his character didn’t see this happening. My friend again clammed up. The DM asked specifically if my character had put their hand into the purse. I looked at my buddy who was near about to explode keeping his mouth shut. I said, “No, I turn it upside down to shake the coin out.” The DM informed me that nothing fell out. I said that my PC looked into the bag again. The DM informed me that I could still see the coin in there. I said “Okay, I put my hand into the purse.
The purse turned out to be a Bag of Devouring (they worked differently back then) and it bit my character’s right hand off. My PC lost his right hand and almost died (he only had 6HP, that was normal back then). I was very upset (we were all kids). The DM told me that D&D was not a game where we could run around like idiots doing foolish things without consequences. Characters died. I needed to know that.
At that point our fourth finally arrived. The DM instructed each of us to make three PCs for the real adventure that was about to start.
I realized that my DM has been doing me a favor. I learned that PCs died, and that I shouldn’t get too attached to them so quickly. By having me make that first PC as something other than what I really wanted, I was spared the hurt of that experience happening to a character I was really attached to. I learned a lot about D&D, education, and friendship that day.
I hope something from the story of that experience is helpful in some way.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Do you even read what people write before you reply? All of those points have been answered already, at this point you are just a broken record. Objectively, you are wrong. Objectively, it is easier to be good at something. Objecttively, a first level Rogue is better at more skills than a first level Fighter. You can keep up with your inane "nu-uh!" but you're still going to be wrong.
Being good at things (when other PCs are not) creates the expectation that you will actually take charge of solving those things. It is thus harder (though more engaging) to be good at skills. The core skillset of a fighter is fighting, which is part of everyone's skill set, so you aren't expected to take solo charge of anything. By comparison, doing things like scouting (Stealth) is prone to being a deathtrap even for experienced players (there's a tendency to sneak forward past the point at which you can survive if you fail a check -- and then fail a check).
You are making the false assumptions that just because you are playing a rogue you would *have to* do those things and that it would be "stressful". That is a completely subjective statement from your side.