Building characters in PF2e is infinitely more awesome, satisfying, and just generally better than building characters in D&D5e.
Playing PF2e is...not as clear-cut a victory. Sadly.
'Course, I'm also one of those who believes that running a game of GURPS is as simple if not more so than running a game of D&D5e, once all the character math has been done prior to campaign start. So people tend to disregard my opinion on the matter. Blugh.
How does magic from the gods differ from magic of the weave? How does magic from the weave differ from magic drawn from the primal forces of nature? Why are wizards, clerics, and druids not all just two-feature subclasses of a single basic "Magic Man" class?
Psychic characters operate on completely different rules than most spellcasters. A spellcaster has access to millions of spells, but can only cast spells [X] number of times before depleting their MP for the day. A psychic character, typically, never "runs out" of their power. They have far fewer abilities, but the abilities they do have tend to be more broadly useful and are also available at will. A telekinetic can't decide they throw fire now, or manipulate water, or summon demons, or enchant the mind, or create magical illusions, or raise the dead, or any of the other hundred and seven things a wizard can do. They can move objects with their minds, and that's about it. But they can ALWAYS do that, and their telekinetic ability is broad enough to afford them a suite of options and adventuring tools they can rely on.
That sort of ability profile is often considered anathema to D&D, which is a game of resource attrition. *Everything* in D&D is supposed to cost something, people can't wrap their heads around characters who have access to supernatural abilities without cost or penalty. But just such a framework is required for a psychic character to feel psychic, and not like a sad bad crap-assed sorcerer with purpler-than-usual magic who's deliberately making bad spell choices just to stick with a theme. Because trust me, none of the psychic subclasses in Tasha's are going to actually feel like their "Psychic" powers are meaningful, or helpful, or in any way worthwhile over just being a damned wizard. But...well. I'll leave off my bitterness over the tragic mishandling of psychic abilities in 5e for now.,
I see, so this is a system issue, not a class issue. Since the idea of a true Psionics class would mean they don't need short rests or long rests to regain their abilities, they would break the balance 5E has in place for other spell casters.
I don't find that to be true. Think of it more like having Mage Hand up permanently, which you can create or dismiss without action economy. But it also isn't dispelled by things like Antimagic Field or Dispel Magic. It would still be blocked by something like Wall of Force. Add the ability to use it to attack some number of times per rest (Short? Long? Dunno. Scale with an ability mod? Or Proficiency? Dunno.)
When you get to a higher level, say 12th level or so, you'd permanently act as though you were under the effect of Telekinesis. And so on.
It can absolutely be balanced. The problem is that a lot of people don't find it to be a meaningful expenditure of resources to do it. But one thing is crystal clear for anybody to see. Simply using an existing spell casting class to achieve this will not fulfill the fantasy, because you will then be limited by spell slots and spell durations, and it will inevitably come with all the baggage of a spell list containing everything from Fireball[ to Wish which don't make any sense whatsoever for a psychic character.
Building characters in PF2e is infinitely more awesome, satisfying, and just generally better than building characters in D&D5e.
Playing PF2e is...not as clear-cut a victory. Sadly.
'Course, I'm also one of those who believes that running a game of GURPS is as simple if not more so than running a game of D&D5e, once all the character math has been done prior to campaign start. So people tend to disregard my opinion on the matter. Blugh.
What is the problem with playing Pf2? I never found a group to try it, but reading through the rulebook it seemed quite straight forward and possibly even more streamlined than 5e with the three actions per turn thing.
How does magic from the gods differ from magic of the weave? How does magic from the weave differ from magic drawn from the primal forces of nature? Why are wizards, clerics, and druids not all just two-feature subclasses of a single basic "Magic Man" class?
Psychic characters operate on completely different rules than most spellcasters. A spellcaster has access to millions of spells, but can only cast spells [X] number of times before depleting their MP for the day. A psychic character, typically, never "runs out" of their power. They have far fewer abilities, but the abilities they do have tend to be more broadly useful and are also available at will. A telekinetic can't decide they throw fire now, or manipulate water, or summon demons, or enchant the mind, or create magical illusions, or raise the dead, or any of the other hundred and seven things a wizard can do. They can move objects with their minds, and that's about it. But they can ALWAYS do that, and their telekinetic ability is broad enough to afford them a suite of options and adventuring tools they can rely on.
That sort of ability profile is often considered anathema to D&D, which is a game of resource attrition. *Everything* in D&D is supposed to cost something, people can't wrap their heads around characters who have access to supernatural abilities without cost or penalty. But just such a framework is required for a psychic character to feel psychic, and not like a sad bad crap-assed sorcerer with purpler-than-usual magic who's deliberately making bad spell choices just to stick with a theme. Because trust me, none of the psychic subclasses in Tasha's are going to actually feel like their "Psychic" powers are meaningful, or helpful, or in any way worthwhile over just being a damned wizard. But...well. I'll leave off my bitterness over the tragic mishandling of psychic abilities in 5e for now.,
I see, so this is a system issue, not a class issue. Since the idea of a true Psionics class would mean they don't need short rests or long rests to regain their abilities, they would break the balance 5E has in place for other spell casters.
I don't find that to be true. Think of it more like having Mage Hand up permanently, which you can create or dismiss without action economy. But it also isn't dispelled by things like Antimagic Field or Dispel Magic. It would still be blocked by something like Wall of Force. Add the ability to use it to attack some number of times per rest (Short? Long? Dunno. Scale with an ability mod? Or Proficiency? Dunno.)
When you get to a higher level, say 12th level or so, you'd permanently act as though you were under the effect of Telekinesis. And so on.
It can absolutely be balanced. The problem is that a lot of people don't find it to be a meaningful expenditure of resources to do it. But one thing is crystal clear for anybody to see. Simply using an existing spell casting class to achieve this will not fulfill the fantasy, because you will then be limited by spell slots and spell durations, and it will inevitably come with all the baggage of a spell list containing everything from Fireball[ to Wish which don't make any sense whatsoever for a psychic character.
I want to state this one more time because I don't want to "incite another Psi debate." I am all for new classes, I think it would be cool for new ones to be brought in and I am in no way trying to call out anyone who wants a fully realized Pscionc class. I have even seen the name Magus or something thrown around for a martial caster, that is also a cool concept. I love them all. I am purely trying to figure out what made Psionics different in previous editions.
I see that would follow 5E rules but I feel like this specific example could be covered in a psi subclass. I guess when I think new Class I think new class features that add new mechanics to the game that are not already covered by other classes. I guess I just don't understand what a Psiconic is. I understand it is mind-based "magic" but how does that manifest in a way that isn't a spell? Like what are Psionics suppose to do is the question I have. Because right now other casters have Enchantment spells to manipulate how people feel, divination spells to probe the minds of others and find people without being there. Everyone keeps saying they do mind things! But no one has answered what these mind things are. As far as I can tell people just want a different way to cast spells that aren't tied to spell slots.
Okay, the problem with saying "Only real D&D content allowed" is that you're restricting the range of creativity in D&D. Basically, you're telling younger people who are new to D&D that they have no say in what the game should be. This is gatekeeping.
The problem I have apparently is that people read my posts, make assumptions about what it says and derive meaning out of it, rather then just reading what it says and making the simple connection that I actually mean what I said. I am very specifically arguing against restriction and at one point there were other posters that clearly made the connection, but in the interest of clarity I will try to be crystal clear.
When D&D was released, it had a core game, base classes, base rules. Basic D&D was essentially a Dungeons and Dragons construction kit from which new books were released that expanded it further and further. It did both things. Offer a base (core) platform for players to expand on their own that was easy to use, a simple space from which creativity flowed, without creating stumbling blocks via inflexible rules that could not be altered as is the case in 5e. The result was over a decade of expansions, more races and classes then anyone knew what to do with, while simultaneously the core, base was there to support GM's and players in their en-devours to create. There was over a dozen official settings spawned from that system, not to mention the literal hundreds that came from 3rd parties.
What we have in 5e is a game in which they tried to squeeze in every mechanic, race and class they could think of via sub-races, sub-class, special cases and they made these things irreversibly conjoined to a un-expandable core mechanic, meaning that if you attempt to change one thing, it breaks several others. The result of this system has been a game that has for the past 6 years remained effectively stagnate. Its easily without a question the least expanded edition of D&D in its entire history (hence this very topic we are discussing), aka why are there not more classes? Why has the game remained stagnate? The answer is that D&D 5e is a nightmare to balance even for the professionals, its a system that was not designed for expansion, hence instead of creativity we get conversations about how Wizards of the Coast is dragging their feet. They are not dragging their feet, they have developed themselves into a corner because instead of creating a base game on which they could build and expand, they have created a dead from which there is no getting out of.
So no I'm not gatekeeping, I'm trying to make people realize that they willingly entered prison.
What exactly do you think is causing the lack of new material, because it seems like you believe that the increased base options in the game have done this? Am I understanding you correctly with this?
No matter how you try to paint it, telling people that they don't have a right to add to the core of D&D is gatekeeping.
Additionally, you're following a tradition for no reason other than the fact that it is tradition.
Yes I am, I think good game design is a tradition that should remain in D&D. Sue me.
I'm going to ignore everything else you said because most of us are having an adult conversation and I don't appreciate you slinging insults at me.
Did I ever say good game design was a bad thing? You seem to think I want D&D to be unbalanced. I want the exact opposite, while also having the base of D&D not being restricted to how it was 30+ years ago.
I'm sorry if it appeared that I was meaning to insult you. I was not meaning for it to apply to just you, more anyone in general who agreed with restricting the identity of D&D in the core rules. I did not mean to offend you, but I don't take back anything I said in that post.
I would imagine that the reason those who subscribe to the OSR don't want more classes is because it doesn't fit what they think D&D should be. Am I right, old school players?
Not at all. Those that subscribe to the OSR are people who understand that there are many different ways to play D&D and they don't believe it should be locked into a specific sub-genre or style of play like 5e is and rather it should be built on a base from which it can be expanded into different directions at the same time including something like 5e. If you design yourself into a corner of a very specific sub-genre of fantasy, you are not describing what Dungeons and Dragons is, you are describing one very specific way D&D could be. What 5e did was instead of us giving us all of the possibilities both past, present and future of Dungeons and Dragons, they gave us one very specific game that is so difficult to work with, even its creator can't get it right.
D&D currently fills a much bigger scope than before. Even if adding to the rules is harder to do in 5e than in previous editions (which I have no way of knowing the truth of, as I never played them), that doesn't mean you should limit the core game.
One answer to that, Leviathan, is that many players are kinda pissed off that psionic effects such as detecting thoughts, telekinetic ability, or telepathic communication are spells at all. Those abilities have traditionally been the dmoain of psychic powers, not magical weavings, and the fact that wizards can just snag those spells without having a single ounce of psychic talent or discipline sucks immense donkey boner. It's a travesty, and fans of psychic characters should absolutely be feeling outraged that their awesome powers have been co-opted into crap-assed spells and Wizards is trying to convince them to just be a shitty sorcerer with a deliberately terrible self-****** spell selection instead of an ACTUAL PSYCHIC.
But that's part of the whole "Psi Debate" I guarantee people will bite your face off for trying to have here. Trust me. People are sick of hearing about it. Sadly.
I see that makes sense then. So if in previous additions those abilities were not a commonplace spell that is able to be learned I understand how people would feel cheated. It seems like WotC had intended "psi" abilities to be easier to access by different sources. Now that they have established this they are can either make a water-downed version of Psionics that are not as unique as they should be, or overhaul the spell lists and take away psi type spells from everyone else. I think 5E is going to be stuck with this choice, hopefully in 5.5 or 6E, there is a separation of this idea.
Though psionics have never really interested me personally, and i've not followed them much, I understand the pain of the people wanting a psionic class.
It's like turning druid or cleric into a wizard subclass, or paladin into a fighter subclass.
Though psionics have never really interested me personally, and i've not followed them much, I understand the pain of the people wanting a psionic class.
It's like turning druid or cleric into a wizard subclass, or paladin into a fighter subclass.
Pally and ranger were fighter subclasses originally lol.
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
(Anyone have ideas for subclasses for the Magus that I'm currently making? I've currently made an Arcane Striker that focuses even more on Spell Strike than the base class, and am designing a subclass called the Eldritch Nullifier who gets counterspell, and can stop others magic and spells. Anyone have any other ideas?)
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Brace up, folks. Looks like we're having this tangent again.
I want it noted, I tried three separate times to avoid this. People kept asking questions, I kept trying to answer succinctly while otherwise avoiding the subject...but here we are. And here we go.
* * *
@Kotath: Explain to me what the benefit of being "Psychic" is in a system wherein a magic user gets ALL OF YOUR ABILITIES, FOR FREE, can use them more often, and also has access to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of other abilities they can just bang off at a moment's notice? Why would anyone choose to be a "Psychic" sorcerer in 5e, when they could be a regular sorcerer instead and gain access to literally everything the "Psychic" character ostensibly gets for being psychic, whilst also having their full run of the sorcerer's spell list and being able to use psychic abilities that a dragon sorcerer or a wild sorcerer or a whatever sorcerer has no business having just as often - IF NOT MORE SO - than the god damned actual psychic?
It's absolute hogwash, the purest and most fragrant of bullshit, and it leaves all the players who really like psychic characters out in the cold because the only way we have of playing the ideas in our heads is to pick a class already disadvantaged next to the goddamned wizard and then swear off over ninety percent of the damned thing's already thin and skimpy spell list, as well as swearing off most of the class and subclass features.
How is that fair? How is that okay? How is that faithful to ANY interpretation of psychic abilities? And how is it people continually expect no one to FREAKING COMPLAIN ABOUT IT?!
One answer to that, Leviathan, is that many players are kinda pissed off that psionic effects such as detecting thoughts, telekinetic ability, or telepathic communication are spells at all. Those abilities have traditionally been the dmoain of psychic powers, not magical weavings
No they haven't. Psi has never been more than a sciencey veneer on magic, so it contains nothing that is not in scope for magic (whether the scope for D&D wizards is excessively broad is a separate subject).
As far as I can tell people just want a different way to cast spells that aren't tied to spell slots.
I do not see anything wrong with that. I think it would be nice if they introduced additional alternative ways to track and use mana. Spell slots are not exactly intuitive, and having an easier to use magic class would be better in my opinion. Spell slots are not a big deal for new players using D&D Beyond right from the start since Beyond does all the grunt work for you, but for new players starting with pen and paper, keeping track of spell slots is a little intimidating and confusing.
For an example of something simple and elegant, Battlemaster Warriors are basically "spellcasters" that can cast "maneuvers" and I find that pretty neat. Similarly, Sorcerer's Metamagic are also pretty simple and elegant as subsystem that compliments the bigger spell slot system. UA's psi die system is also pretty neat and is an even more elegant and simple solution in my opinion, and I hope that system makes it into the official game in some form or manner.
Personally, I would like it if they introduced a spellcaster that gets rid of spell slots altogether and combine all the slots into a single mana pool, so the spellcaster has more freedom and control over how they cast spells, so the spellcaster does not have to worry about running out of level 1 spell slots and waste level 2 spell slots.
Well, I'm just going to have to disagree with you, BigLizard. I agree that 5e is very complicated when it comes to adding new content, but I don't think that originates from it having such a broad scope. There is no such thing as "real D&D" as you define it, because D&D is whatever WotC and the DM of the table says it is.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
EDIT: FINE. Ye know, I do get tired of people asking questions about psionics, and whenever I answer them people harassing me about my answers, only for me to get told to shut my pie hatch and Stop Being off Topic when I answer that harassment. Maybe people can stop asking the questions, or stop harassing me when I explain why this subject keeps coming up instead of doing everything they can to bait me into rehashing the discussion again. Y'all know it's gonna happen whenever you go there >_>
People say that a psychic character's psychic abilities should be weaker than a spellcaster that has a huge variety of different spells they can freely cherry-pick from to assemble their Perfect Meta Spell List, that a psychic character shouldn't be able to use their abilities as often as a spellcaster casts spells, and that a psychic character's should be more restricted and difficult to use than a spellcaster's spells, Kotath.
What part of that is okay?
Yes, I damn well expect a psychic character to be better at being psychic than a mage who can cherry-pick their abilities freely from a list of over four hundred different superpowers. When you narrow your focus, you become more proficient and capable within that focus. That is one of the ways in which game balance is supposed to work. In exchange for having a massively more restrictive ability set, often consistsing of just one or two core powers and perhaps half a dozen ways of using that power, a psychic character gains the ability to use that power freely and is more proficient with it than a spellcaster who is using one of their fifty prepared spells to mimic those abilities. Elsewise there is no reason to play a PSYCHIC character when you can instead just be an ordinary boring-ass mage, pick the psychic spells alongside all your other spells, and do everything the psychic character does better than the psychic character does it whilst also doing a hundred other things.
No. Bad. That is a bad idea and it should feel bad.
So besides a non-wildshape based nature class like a Shaman, a swordmage/magus like class and a pure psionics class (Which seems to be the big three mentioned in this thread).....what other base classes would fit to add to the roster?
Edit: I'd also like Blood Hunter to become its own class with more subclasses.
So besides a non-wildshape based nature class like a Shaman, a swordmage/magus like class and a pure psionics class (Which seems to be the big three mentioned in this thread).....what other base classes would fit to add to the roster?
Edit: I'd also like Blood Hunter to become its own class with more subclasses.
An all around class like mystic, but instead of being stronger or equal in everything, it's weaker in everything, as to remain balanced
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Building characters in PF2e is infinitely more awesome, satisfying, and just generally better than building characters in D&D5e.
Playing PF2e is...not as clear-cut a victory. Sadly.
'Course, I'm also one of those who believes that running a game of GURPS is as simple if not more so than running a game of D&D5e, once all the character math has been done prior to campaign start. So people tend to disregard my opinion on the matter. Blugh.
Please do not contact or message me.
I don't find that to be true. Think of it more like having Mage Hand up permanently, which you can create or dismiss without action economy. But it also isn't dispelled by things like Antimagic Field or Dispel Magic. It would still be blocked by something like Wall of Force. Add the ability to use it to attack some number of times per rest (Short? Long? Dunno. Scale with an ability mod? Or Proficiency? Dunno.)
When you get to a higher level, say 12th level or so, you'd permanently act as though you were under the effect of Telekinesis. And so on.
It can absolutely be balanced. The problem is that a lot of people don't find it to be a meaningful expenditure of resources to do it. But one thing is crystal clear for anybody to see. Simply using an existing spell casting class to achieve this will not fulfill the fantasy, because you will then be limited by spell slots and spell durations, and it will inevitably come with all the baggage of a spell list containing everything from Fireball[ to Wish which don't make any sense whatsoever for a psychic character.
What is the problem with playing Pf2? I never found a group to try it, but reading through the rulebook it seemed quite straight forward and possibly even more streamlined than 5e with the three actions per turn thing.
I want to state this one more time because I don't want to "incite another Psi debate." I am all for new classes, I think it would be cool for new ones to be brought in and I am in no way trying to call out anyone who wants a fully realized Pscionc class. I have even seen the name Magus or something thrown around for a martial caster, that is also a cool concept. I love them all. I am purely trying to figure out what made Psionics different in previous editions.
I see that would follow 5E rules but I feel like this specific example could be covered in a psi subclass. I guess when I think new Class I think new class features that add new mechanics to the game that are not already covered by other classes. I guess I just don't understand what a Psiconic is. I understand it is mind-based "magic" but how does that manifest in a way that isn't a spell? Like what are Psionics suppose to do is the question I have. Because right now other casters have Enchantment spells to manipulate how people feel, divination spells to probe the minds of others and find people without being there. Everyone keeps saying they do mind things! But no one has answered what these mind things are. As far as I can tell people just want a different way to cast spells that aren't tied to spell slots.
What exactly do you think is causing the lack of new material, because it seems like you believe that the increased base options in the game have done this? Am I understanding you correctly with this?
No matter how you try to paint it, telling people that they don't have a right to add to the core of D&D is gatekeeping.
Did I ever say good game design was a bad thing? You seem to think I want D&D to be unbalanced. I want the exact opposite, while also having the base of D&D not being restricted to how it was 30+ years ago.
I'm sorry if it appeared that I was meaning to insult you. I was not meaning for it to apply to just you, more anyone in general who agreed with restricting the identity of D&D in the core rules. I did not mean to offend you, but I don't take back anything I said in that post.
D&D currently fills a much bigger scope than before. Even if adding to the rules is harder to do in 5e than in previous editions (which I have no way of knowing the truth of, as I never played them), that doesn't mean you should limit the core game.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
One answer to that, Leviathan, is that many players are kinda pissed off that psionic effects such as detecting thoughts, telekinetic ability, or telepathic communication are spells at all. Those abilities have traditionally been the dmoain of psychic powers, not magical weavings, and the fact that wizards can just snag those spells without having a single ounce of psychic talent or discipline sucks immense donkey boner. It's a travesty, and fans of psychic characters should absolutely be feeling outraged that their awesome powers have been co-opted into crap-assed spells and Wizards is trying to convince them to just be a shitty sorcerer with a deliberately terrible self-****** spell selection instead of an ACTUAL PSYCHIC.
But that's part of the whole "Psi Debate" I guarantee people will bite your face off for trying to have here. Trust me. People are sick of hearing about it. Sadly.
Please do not contact or message me.
I see that makes sense then. So if in previous additions those abilities were not a commonplace spell that is able to be learned I understand how people would feel cheated. It seems like WotC had intended "psi" abilities to be easier to access by different sources. Now that they have established this they are can either make a water-downed version of Psionics that are not as unique as they should be, or overhaul the spell lists and take away psi type spells from everyone else. I think 5E is going to be stuck with this choice, hopefully in 5.5 or 6E, there is a separation of this idea.
Though psionics have never really interested me personally, and i've not followed them much, I understand the pain of the people wanting a psionic class.
It's like turning druid or cleric into a wizard subclass, or paladin into a fighter subclass.
Pally and ranger were fighter subclasses originally lol.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
(Anyone have ideas for subclasses for the Magus that I'm currently making? I've currently made an Arcane Striker that focuses even more on Spell Strike than the base class, and am designing a subclass called the Eldritch Nullifier who gets counterspell, and can stop others magic and spells. Anyone have any other ideas?)
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
...a'ight.
Brace up, folks. Looks like we're having this tangent again.
I want it noted, I tried three separate times to avoid this. People kept asking questions, I kept trying to answer succinctly while otherwise avoiding the subject...but here we are. And here we go.
* * *
@Kotath: Explain to me what the benefit of being "Psychic" is in a system wherein a magic user gets ALL OF YOUR ABILITIES, FOR FREE, can use them more often, and also has access to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of other abilities they can just bang off at a moment's notice? Why would anyone choose to be a "Psychic" sorcerer in 5e, when they could be a regular sorcerer instead and gain access to literally everything the "Psychic" character ostensibly gets for being psychic, whilst also having their full run of the sorcerer's spell list and being able to use psychic abilities that a dragon sorcerer or a wild sorcerer or a whatever sorcerer has no business having just as often - IF NOT MORE SO - than the god damned actual psychic?
It's absolute hogwash, the purest and most fragrant of bullshit, and it leaves all the players who really like psychic characters out in the cold because the only way we have of playing the ideas in our heads is to pick a class already disadvantaged next to the goddamned wizard and then swear off over ninety percent of the damned thing's already thin and skimpy spell list, as well as swearing off most of the class and subclass features.
How is that fair? How is that okay? How is that faithful to ANY interpretation of psychic abilities? And how is it people continually expect no one to FREAKING COMPLAIN ABOUT IT?!
Please do not contact or message me.
No they haven't. Psi has never been more than a sciencey veneer on magic, so it contains nothing that is not in scope for magic (whether the scope for D&D wizards is excessively broad is a separate subject).
I do not see anything wrong with that. I think it would be nice if they introduced additional alternative ways to track and use mana. Spell slots are not exactly intuitive, and having an easier to use magic class would be better in my opinion. Spell slots are not a big deal for new players using D&D Beyond right from the start since Beyond does all the grunt work for you, but for new players starting with pen and paper, keeping track of spell slots is a little intimidating and confusing.
For an example of something simple and elegant, Battlemaster Warriors are basically "spellcasters" that can cast "maneuvers" and I find that pretty neat. Similarly, Sorcerer's Metamagic are also pretty simple and elegant as subsystem that compliments the bigger spell slot system. UA's psi die system is also pretty neat and is an even more elegant and simple solution in my opinion, and I hope that system makes it into the official game in some form or manner.
Personally, I would like it if they introduced a spellcaster that gets rid of spell slots altogether and combine all the slots into a single mana pool, so the spellcaster has more freedom and control over how they cast spells, so the spellcaster does not have to worry about running out of level 1 spell slots and waste level 2 spell slots.
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Well, I'm just going to have to disagree with you, BigLizard. I agree that 5e is very complicated when it comes to adding new content, but I don't think that originates from it having such a broad scope. There is no such thing as "real D&D" as you define it, because D&D is whatever WotC and the DM of the table says it is.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Aaaaaaaaaaaand, now we're back to having Psionics Argument #3,681. Great.
Yeah. I agree with Mezurrah. While there is a place for psionics in this discussion, I think we've passed the threshold of being on topic.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
EDIT: FINE. Ye know, I do get tired of people asking questions about psionics, and whenever I answer them people harassing me about my answers, only for me to get told to shut my pie hatch and Stop Being off Topic when I answer that harassment. Maybe people can stop asking the questions, or stop harassing me when I explain why this subject keeps coming up instead of doing everything they can to bait me into rehashing the discussion again. Y'all know it's gonna happen whenever you go there >_>
People say that a psychic character's psychic abilities should be weaker than a spellcaster that has a huge variety of different spells they can freely cherry-pick from to assemble their Perfect Meta Spell List, that a psychic character shouldn't be able to use their abilities as often as a spellcaster casts spells, and that a psychic character's should be more restricted and difficult to use than a spellcaster's spells, Kotath.
What part of that is okay?
Yes, I damn well expect a psychic character to be better at being psychic than a mage who can cherry-pick their abilities freely from a list of over four hundred different superpowers. When you narrow your focus, you become more proficient and capable within that focus. That is one of the ways in which game balance is supposed to work. In exchange for having a massively more restrictive ability set, often consistsing of just one or two core powers and perhaps half a dozen ways of using that power, a psychic character gains the ability to use that power freely and is more proficient with it than a spellcaster who is using one of their fifty prepared spells to mimic those abilities. Elsewise there is no reason to play a PSYCHIC character when you can instead just be an ordinary boring-ass mage, pick the psychic spells alongside all your other spells, and do everything the psychic character does better than the psychic character does it whilst also doing a hundred other things.
No. Bad. That is a bad idea and it should feel bad.
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So besides a non-wildshape based nature class like a Shaman, a swordmage/magus like class and a pure psionics class (Which seems to be the big three mentioned in this thread).....what other base classes would fit to add to the roster?
Edit: I'd also like Blood Hunter to become its own class with more subclasses.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Kotath, Drop it. This conversation has been had COUNTLESS times, and rehashing it here serves NOTHING.
An all around class like mystic, but instead of being stronger or equal in everything, it's weaker in everything, as to remain balanced