Clearly Mordenkainen's take on Faerun lore is faulty because he is from Oerth and now that he spends time on Faerun he is insane with Elminster and Storm Silverhand tending to his dementia. Not a reliable source of lore at all xD
Clearly Mordenkainen's take on Faerun lore is faulty because he is from Oerth and now that he spends time on Faerun he is insane with Elminster and Storm Silverhand tending to his dementia. Not a reliable source of lore at all xD
I guess that gives them an out to fix the lore later so it actually makes sense.
One argument for Spelljammer is Baldur's Gate 3; sure, presumably the adventure itself is in Baldur's Gate, but the opening cinematic is set on board a Nautiloid...
True, but a Nautiloid that plane shifts, no phlogiston sailing was witnessed.
As a reminder, the phlogiston is very, very far from the surface of a planet, it is beyond the crystal sphere edge, between the planet and the crystal sphere is just Realmspace. ;)
Yes, but the planar hopping seen in the cinematic described was nothing like spell jamming. Of course, Sigil wasn't utilized, and I don't remember if they even showed how the nautiloid came to menace the presumably Faerun city (I read somewhere that the city in the cinematic actually isn't Baldur's Gate) the "plucking" of the biomechanics string that triggers the subsequent two hops is clearly analogous in function to the tuning fork used in plane shift, though probably more versatile (multiple frequencies on the "instrument" as opposed to a fork tuned to a specific plane).
Yes, but the planar hopping seen in the cinematic described was nothing like spell jamming. Of course, Sigil wasn't utilized, and I don't remember if they even showed how the nautiloid came to menace the presumably Faerun city (I read somewhere that the city in the cinematic actually isn't Baldur's Gate) the "plucking" of the biomechanics string that triggers the subsequent two hops is clearly analogous in function to the tuning fork used in plane shift, though probably more versatile (multiple frequencies on the "instrument" as opposed to a fork tuned to a specific plane).
I agree that the hopping is more interdimensional, especially as they seem to end up in hell at the end, cf. the swarm of what looked like imps. That being said at the start, the nautiloid is just coming out of clouds on presumably the prime. And when you are being pursued by a squadron of red dragons, dimensional hopping is probably faster than moving in 3D.
If you are talking about the trailer then yeah, it's Yartar in the Dessarin Valley. Very much Prime.
Yes, but the planar hopping seen in the cinematic described was nothing like spell jamming. Of course, Sigil wasn't utilized, and I don't remember if they even showed how the nautiloid came to menace the presumably Faerun city (I read somewhere that the city in the cinematic actually isn't Baldur's Gate) the "plucking" of the biomechanics string that triggers the subsequent two hops is clearly analogous in function to the tuning fork used in plane shift, though probably more versatile (multiple frequencies on the "instrument" as opposed to a fork tuned to a specific plane).
I agree that the hopping is more interdimensional, especially as they seem to end up in hell at the end, cf. the swarm of what looked like imps. That being said at the start, the nautiloid is just coming out of clouds on presumably the prime. And when you are being pursued by a squadron of red dragons, dimensional hopping is probably faster than moving in 3D.
If you don't mind spoilers from that cinematic,
yes the nautiloid actually arrives in Avernus
Begs a question at least for me though since I'm not super versed in Spelljammer. Do spell jammer ships or just nautiloids have some sort of "emergency plane jump" capability or would a plane jumping nautiloid be a new spin (or leap) for the concept?
.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Yes, but the planar hopping seen in the cinematic described was nothing like spell jamming. Of course, Sigil wasn't utilized, and I don't remember if they even showed how the nautiloid came to menace the presumably Faerun city (I read somewhere that the city in the cinematic actually isn't Baldur's Gate) the "plucking" of the biomechanics string that triggers the subsequent two hops is clearly analogous in function to the tuning fork used in plane shift, though probably more versatile (multiple frequencies on the "instrument" as opposed to a fork tuned to a specific plane).
I agree that the hopping is more interdimensional, especially as they seem to end up in hell at the end, cf. the swarm of what looked like imps. That being said at the start, the nautiloid is just coming out of clouds on presumably the prime. And when you are being pursued by a squadron of red dragons, dimensional hopping is probably faster than moving in 3D.
If you don't mind spoilers from that cinematic,
yes the nautiloid actually arrives in Avernus
Begs a question at least for me though since I'm not super versed in Spelljammer. Do spell jammer ships or just nautiloids have some sort of "emergency plane jump" capability or would a plane jumping nautiloid be a new spin (or leap) for the concept?
.
To my knowledge not traditional, Spelljammers weren't designed for interplanar travel, they were use for moving between worlds and Crystal Spheres on the Material Plane. The shift to interplanar travel came in 4e and has built up steam in 6e
I'm not the only one who has complained about the lore changes of MToF. Maybe not so much in these forums--I'm still pretty new to these forums, so if there were gripes about it when it first came out, I did not see them, and so it may seem like I am the only one here with complaints about it. But in other forums and sites, I'm definitely not the only one (whether we're a minority or not, I can't say). While maybe a couple of tweaks and inconsistencies are to be expected, elf and drow lore has been fairly consistent throughout most of the editions. MToF completely flipped it on its head, even changing things the SCAG said--which, now that I've had more time to think about, goes back to my earlier point of 5e changing things even within the same edition. But I've already gone into all that, so I'll stop. I admittedly did fall into the buyer's trap, as I think many people do.
Speaking of the SCAG, my main beef with it is that it's too sparse in detail, and narrow in scope, focusing on the Sword Coast, and just giving a couple of paragraphs to most things. I don't hate it, but it would be nice to have a full campaign setting guide. the 3.0 one, for example, was great.
(Btw, i quoted you, but it's not directed solely at you :) ).
(I understand, that's fine.)
And I understand that. I personally have no opinion in the changes in the lore, as this is my first edition of D&D ever. I think if they were to change the lore again in 6e, I would dislike that, but I don't know because I haven't experienced that. I was merely using you disliking the lore changes to prove my point in my post. You weren't complaining about the existence of Mordenkainen's, merely that the lore was inconsistent with previous editions. Am I correct?
Had they only changed a thing here and there, I may not have had such a problem with it, but they changed pretty much everything in regards to elf and drow lore. If you're curious, I recommend looking at Demihuman Deities, Lost Empires of Faerun, and Evermeet: Island of Elves (if you don't want to read the whole novel, at least look at the beginning. The lore had been fairly consistent until MToF suddenly decided to do a 180 with it. Tbh, even if 5e was the only edition I was familiar with, I probably wouldn't have liked it, but of course I can't say that for sure.
As far as it's existence vs just not liking the lore goes...I feel like there is a fine line there, and I can't entirely answer it. I mean, if something botches/changes the lore so much that it basically erases decades of established lore, then complaining about such changes kind of goes hand in hand with not liking it's existence, I would think lol. But my posts have been about the changes, not the product itself.
Yes, but the planar hopping seen in the cinematic described was nothing like spell jamming. Of course, Sigil wasn't utilized, and I don't remember if they even showed how the nautiloid came to menace the presumably Faerun city (I read somewhere that the city in the cinematic actually isn't Baldur's Gate) the "plucking" of the biomechanics string that triggers the subsequent two hops is clearly analogous in function to the tuning fork used in plane shift, though probably more versatile (multiple frequencies on the "instrument" as opposed to a fork tuned to a specific plane).
I agree that the hopping is more interdimensional, especially as they seem to end up in hell at the end, cf. the swarm of what looked like imps. That being said at the start, the nautiloid is just coming out of clouds on presumably the prime. And when you are being pursued by a squadron of red dragons, dimensional hopping is probably faster than moving in 3D.
If you don't mind spoilers from that cinematic,
yes the nautiloid actually arrives in Avernus
Begs a question at least for me though since I'm not super versed in Spelljammer. Do spell jammer ships or just nautiloids have some sort of "emergency plane jump" capability or would a plane jumping nautiloid be a new spin (or leap) for the concept? .
To my knowledge not traditional, Spelljammers weren't designed for interplanar travel, they were use for moving between worlds and Crystal Spheres on the Material Plane. The shift to interplanar travel came in 4e and has built up steam in 6e
Spelljammers go through Wildspace and the Phlogiston. IIRC, nautiloids are the only spelljammers that can planeshift.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Massive Spelljammer hint in Undermountain. Some late-stage stuff in Icewind Dale also suggests Spelljammer.
Official releases of psion subclasses, as well as all the work done on the psion class (which was a hot mess at last check) points to Dark Sun. Mike Meals tweeted a couple of years ago that he'd designed the base mechanics for Dark Sun as well.
I liked Avernus a lot, but the overland travel wasn't nearly as brutal as it could be in Dark Sun. Also, the trope of *having* to be unkillable just to survive a cross-country trek was super fun. Dark Sun was my favorite 2e setting, and I REALLY hope they bring it back.
Spelljammer is fun, but we need other settings to get to before it's that useful, IMO.
I would love to see an adaptation of Planescape and Spelljammer in the future of 5E. I believe many people would like Planescape, I am not sure about Spell Jammer, but for me, those two would be awesome. I am 50/50 on the MtG settings. I personally didn't care for the GGtR, although some of the items I love and the guild structure are helpful, on the other side I love the Theros setting. I am currently running a campaign in this setting. I felt like Theros was a more friendly setting for D&D then Ravnica is, but again that is my subjective opinion based on what I like in my D&D game, and not everyone plays or runs D&D as I do.
Yes, but the planar hopping seen in the cinematic described was nothing like spell jamming. Of course, Sigil wasn't utilized, and I don't remember if they even showed how the nautiloid came to menace the presumably Faerun city (I read somewhere that the city in the cinematic actually isn't Baldur's Gate) the "plucking" of the biomechanics string that triggers the subsequent two hops is clearly analogous in function to the tuning fork used in plane shift, though probably more versatile (multiple frequencies on the "instrument" as opposed to a fork tuned to a specific plane).
I agree that the hopping is more interdimensional, especially as they seem to end up in hell at the end, cf. the swarm of what looked like imps. That being said at the start, the nautiloid is just coming out of clouds on presumably the prime. And when you are being pursued by a squadron of red dragons, dimensional hopping is probably faster than moving in 3D.
If you don't mind spoilers from that cinematic,
yes the nautiloid actually arrives in Avernus
Begs a question at least for me though since I'm not super versed in Spelljammer. Do spell jammer ships or just nautiloids have some sort of "emergency plane jump" capability or would a plane jumping nautiloid be a new spin (or leap) for the concept? .
To my knowledge not traditional, Spelljammers weren't designed for interplanar travel, they were use for moving between worlds and Crystal Spheres on the Material Plane. The shift to interplanar travel came in 4e and has built up steam in 6e
Spelljammers go through Wildspace and the Phlogiston. IIRC, nautiloids are the only spelljammers that can planeshift.
From the Manuel of the Planes in 4e:
"Spelljammer Gargantuan Vehicle HP 500 Space 4 squares by 8 squares Cost 3,125,000 gp AC 3; Fortitude 20, Reflex 2 Speed fly 12 (hover), overland flight 15 Pilot The pilot must sit at the spelljammer helm, typically at the rear of the spelljammer. Crew In addition to the pilot, a spelljammer requires a crew of five, all of whom use a standard action each round to help control the vessel. Reduce the spelljammer's fly speed by 4 squares for each missing crew member. At fly speed 0, the spelljammer is unable to travel and flies out of control. Load Thirty Medium creatures; forty tons of cargo. Out of Control An out-of-control spelljammer moves forward at half speed (not including any modifiers for its sails). Each round, it has 75% chance of descending. It descends 5 squares for the first 10 rounds it's out of control. After 10 rounds, it descends 10 squares per round. An out-of-control spelljammer that hits the ground after descending more than 20 squares is destroyed. Sails The spelljammer takes a penalty or bonus to its fly speed from -4 to +4 depending on the strength and direction of the wind. Spelljammer Helm (Navigation Focus) This vehicle is equipped with a spelljamming helm, which is the navigation focus for the Plane Shift ritual."
All 4e Spelljammers could Planeshift. This is one of the reasons why folks suggests that they might merge Spelljammer and Planescape, because 4e sort of already did in a sense. There have been other hints of this as well.
I'm not the only one who has complained about the lore changes of MToF. Maybe not so much in these forums--I'm still pretty new to these forums, so if there were gripes about it when it first came out, I did not see them, and so it may seem like I am the only one here with complaints about it. But in other forums and sites, I'm definitely not the only one (whether we're a minority or not, I can't say). While maybe a couple of tweaks and inconsistencies are to be expected, elf and drow lore has been fairly consistent throughout most of the editions. MToF completely flipped it on its head, even changing things the SCAG said--which, now that I've had more time to think about, goes back to my earlier point of 5e changing things even within the same edition. But I've already gone into all that, so I'll stop. I admittedly did fall into the buyer's trap, as I think many people do.
Speaking of the SCAG, my main beef with it is that it's too sparse in detail, and narrow in scope, focusing on the Sword Coast, and just giving a couple of paragraphs to most things. I don't hate it, but it would be nice to have a full campaign setting guide. the 3.0 one, for example, was great.
(Btw, i quoted you, but it's not directed solely at you :) ).
(I understand, that's fine.)
And I understand that. I personally have no opinion in the changes in the lore, as this is my first edition of D&D ever. I think if they were to change the lore again in 6e, I would dislike that, but I don't know because I haven't experienced that. I was merely using you disliking the lore changes to prove my point in my post. You weren't complaining about the existence of Mordenkainen's, merely that the lore was inconsistent with previous editions. Am I correct?
Had they only changed a thing here and there, I may not have had such a problem with it, but they changed pretty much everything in regards to elf and drow lore. If you're curious, I recommend looking at Demihuman Deities, Lost Empires of Faerun, and Evermeet: Island of Elves (if you don't want to read the whole novel, at least look at the beginning. The lore had been fairly consistent until MToF suddenly decided to do a 180 with it. Tbh, even if 5e was the only edition I was familiar with, I probably wouldn't have liked it, but of course I can't say that for sure.
As far as it's existence vs just not liking the lore goes...I feel like there is a fine line there, and I can't entirely answer it. I mean, if something botches/changes the lore so much that it basically erases decades of established lore, then complaining about such changes kind of goes hand in hand with not liking it's existence, I would think lol. But my posts have been about the changes, not the product itself.
There was some good parts, like uniting all the broken chunks (like extra Elven and Dwarven Gods from Dragon Magazine for the Forgotten Realms) of racial Pantheons into unified Demihuman (Pantheons), BUT your right a lot of the lore was an absolutely hot mess and not just for the Forgotten Realms. In some ways MTOF is a worse book then the SCAG, although the Beastairy was great, so was the Gith section, and the deity lists, but the rest were hugely flawed. They forgot that Luiren the Halfling nation even exists. They messed up the lore on Evermeet, Shadar Kai (I'm fine with making them elves, but there was no attempt to make the lore cohesive with what came before), and so on.
Right, I'm fine with them adding some of the deities like Zin--forgetting the rest of her name lol (though I felt like they shoehorned the Raven Queen in), and as you said, there was no attempt at making the lore cohesive, not to mention what they did with the lore for Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, the history of Lolth and Corellon, elven souls being denied permanent residence in Arvandor (while elves have long believed in reincarnation, it wasn't something they were forced into) because of what the "primal elves" did, treating the drow as essentially soulless...just a hot mess, as you said.
I would love to see an adaptation of Planescape and Spelljammer in the future of 5E. I believe many people would like Planescape, I am not sure about Spell Jammer, but for me, those two would be awesome. I am 50/50 on the MtG settings. I personally didn't care for the GGtR, although some of the items I love and the guild structure are helpful, on the other side I love the Theros setting. I am currently running a campaign in this setting. I felt like Theros was a more friendly setting for D&D then Ravnica is, but again that is my subjective opinion based on what I like in my D&D game, and not everyone plays or runs D&D as I do.
100% agree with the MtG stuff. Theros is fun, and easy to design epic campaigns. I felt like GGtR was super alien to the concepts of D&D. The place lacks even a semblance of plausibility for me, which makes it confusing to run. Sigil is easier to understand for me!
Actually, Mystara was brought to date in 2e and the whole Hollow World setting, and that was brought into 3.0 by fans.
I Think we need to have a Greyhawk setting. Let's face it- Half the canon, the modules, characters, and so on, were from Greyhawk, which I personally thought never got a proper storyline even as the home setting for 3.0/3.5.
As the only setting with a half-demon demigod as a ruler, and a country controlled by an undead of some sort (What exactly is the Overking these days?), this is a true swords and sorcery setting. It matched the personality and style of at least 80% of my players, and I've had lots of players through the years. There are storylines that have never been followed, and many that shouldn't have been followed, and several that ended, well- let's just say Doomgrinder was a waste of possibilities.
It annoys me that Greyhawk material has been retrofitted into FR, too. Like FR doesn't have any material of its own or something. And if FR was the most popular setting then why is the Greyhawk material more popular than the FR material? Frankly, I think it's because the stupid books took control of my setting from me. And others felt the same way. I want modules, I want options and meat for the cities and countries and monsters, but I want the wars and politics and interplanar things, the big choices, to be mine and my players alone.
Cue Wild magic and Dead magic areas, A LA 2e. Cue up the gods war. Cue the Spellplague. Blah blah blah. And I was an early adopter, that boxed set with the lone warrior on the moor captured my attention. I had a group of AD&D players that numbered in the teens that all got to about level 16. It was my second longest running campaign. I still own the original "ruins of adventure". But, I also own a copy of 1e's 'keep on the borderlands' and stuff like "Liberation of Geoff" and "White Plume Mountain", which were all Greyhawk.
Tales from the Yawning Portal just made me sad.
We need Greyhawk. It's part of D&D's original DNA, it's entwined and synonymous with Dungeons and Dragons.
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“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” John Stuart Mill, 1867
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Attributed to Edmund Burke, 1961 (It is conjectured that he never said it.)
Right, I'm fine with them adding some of the deities like Zin--forgetting the rest of her name lol (though I felt like they shoehorned the Raven Queen in), and as you said, there was no attempt at making the lore cohesive, not to mention what they did with the lore for Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, the history of Lolth and Corellon, elven souls being denied permanent residence in Arvandor (while elves have long believed in reincarnation, it wasn't something they were forced into) because of what the "primal elves" did, treating the drow as essentially soulless...just a hot mess, as you said.
The Souless Drow thing is a misunderstanding of what were trying to suggest. Really Drow don't really have Elvish souls like other Elves do in the book and so they just stay in Arvendor when they die if they worshipped the Seldarine, instead of reincarnating, just like none elven worshippers. Elistraea's Drow worshippers souls disappear, but it's unknown what happens to them.
See what they did in the book is rip off Gnostism, giving it an Elvish spin. Corellon becomes the "True" God, the other Gods become Aeons (Seldarine), or Archons (Dark Seldarine), and Lolth becomes the Demiurge. They are all functionally eminations of Corellon like all Elves, with regular elves possessing divine sparks of Corellon's essence, like human souls in Gnostism being sparks of their "God Beyond God".
It's a cool idea, but it's so disconnected from all the other lore then it ends up a huge mess making no sense.
WotC keeps messing up the lore and that is bad for immersion. I hope they up their game.
I've seen Evermeet mentioned several times, what has been changed in the book regarding the lore of the island?
I at least was also referring to the novel Evermeet: Island of Elves by Elaine Cunningham. The whole thing is a great read, but if you want to see how MToF changed elven and drow lore, read the beginning.
Right, I'm fine with them adding some of the deities like Zin--forgetting the rest of her name lol (though I felt like they shoehorned the Raven Queen in), and as you said, there was no attempt at making the lore cohesive, not to mention what they did with the lore for Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, the history of Lolth and Corellon, elven souls being denied permanent residence in Arvandor (while elves have long believed in reincarnation, it wasn't something they were forced into) because of what the "primal elves" did, treating the drow as essentially soulless...just a hot mess, as you said.
The Souless Drow thing is a misunderstanding of what were trying to suggest. Really Drow don't really have Elvish souls like other Elves do in the book and so they just stay in Arvendor when they die if they worshipped the Seldarine, instead of reincarnating, just like none elven worshippers. Elistraea's Drow worshippers souls disappear, but it's unknown what happens to them.
Is that what they were implying? Drow souls stay in Arvandor? That isn't what the book implied, and even if that was the case, given the rest of the context of MToF, that makes little sense. Why would the drow, who sided with Lolth, get better treatment (ie, not forced reincarnation) than the elves? And the Eilistraeens in particular, who are actually good drow and thus deserve a good afterlife, disappear and go to an unknown place? Not only does that contradict established lore, but it makes little sense.
I'm all for drow not ending up in the Abyss, but the book really made it sound like they were basically soulless, with even the fate of Eilistraeens being unknown, and again, if it was indeed meant that they stay in Arvandor, that makes little sense, considering the whole treachery.
I've seen Evermeet mentioned several times, what has been changed in the book regarding the lore of the island?
I at least was also referring to the novel Evermeet: Island of Elves by Elaine Cunningham. The whole thing is a great read, but if you want to see how MToF changed elven and drow lore, read the beginning.
No, the elven lore changes I get, I was asking specifically about Evermeet because I saw that someone mentioned it.
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Clearly Mordenkainen's take on Faerun lore is faulty because he is from Oerth and now that he spends time on Faerun he is insane with Elminster and Storm Silverhand tending to his dementia. Not a reliable source of lore at all xD
I guess that gives them an out to fix the lore later so it actually makes sense.
Yes, but the planar hopping seen in the cinematic described was nothing like spell jamming. Of course, Sigil wasn't utilized, and I don't remember if they even showed how the nautiloid came to menace the presumably Faerun city (I read somewhere that the city in the cinematic actually isn't Baldur's Gate) the "plucking" of the biomechanics string that triggers the subsequent two hops is clearly analogous in function to the tuning fork used in plane shift, though probably more versatile (multiple frequencies on the "instrument" as opposed to a fork tuned to a specific plane).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
If you are talking about the trailer then yeah, it's Yartar in the Dessarin Valley. Very much Prime.
If you don't mind spoilers from that cinematic,
yes the nautiloid actually arrives in Avernus
Begs a question at least for me though since I'm not super versed in Spelljammer. Do spell jammer ships or just nautiloids have some sort of "emergency plane jump" capability or would a plane jumping nautiloid be a new spin (or leap) for the concept?
.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
To my knowledge not traditional, Spelljammers weren't designed for interplanar travel, they were use for moving between worlds and Crystal Spheres on the Material Plane. The shift to interplanar travel came in 4e and has built up steam in 6e
Had they only changed a thing here and there, I may not have had such a problem with it, but they changed pretty much everything in regards to elf and drow lore. If you're curious, I recommend looking at Demihuman Deities, Lost Empires of Faerun, and Evermeet: Island of Elves (if you don't want to read the whole novel, at least look at the beginning. The lore had been fairly consistent until MToF suddenly decided to do a 180 with it. Tbh, even if 5e was the only edition I was familiar with, I probably wouldn't have liked it, but of course I can't say that for sure.
As far as it's existence vs just not liking the lore goes...I feel like there is a fine line there, and I can't entirely answer it. I mean, if something botches/changes the lore so much that it basically erases decades of established lore, then complaining about such changes kind of goes hand in hand with not liking it's existence, I would think lol. But my posts have been about the changes, not the product itself.
Spelljammers go through Wildspace and the Phlogiston. IIRC, nautiloids are the only spelljammers that can planeshift.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Massive Spelljammer hint in Undermountain. Some late-stage stuff in Icewind Dale also suggests Spelljammer.
Official releases of psion subclasses, as well as all the work done on the psion class (which was a hot mess at last check) points to Dark Sun. Mike Meals tweeted a couple of years ago that he'd designed the base mechanics for Dark Sun as well.
I liked Avernus a lot, but the overland travel wasn't nearly as brutal as it could be in Dark Sun. Also, the trope of *having* to be unkillable just to survive a cross-country trek was super fun. Dark Sun was my favorite 2e setting, and I REALLY hope they bring it back.
Spelljammer is fun, but we need other settings to get to before it's that useful, IMO.
I would love to see an adaptation of Planescape and Spelljammer in the future of 5E. I believe many people would like Planescape, I am not sure about Spell Jammer, but for me, those two would be awesome. I am 50/50 on the MtG settings. I personally didn't care for the GGtR, although some of the items I love and the guild structure are helpful, on the other side I love the Theros setting. I am currently running a campaign in this setting. I felt like Theros was a more friendly setting for D&D then Ravnica is, but again that is my subjective opinion based on what I like in my D&D game, and not everyone plays or runs D&D as I do.
From the Manuel of the Planes in 4e:
"Spelljammer
Gargantuan Vehicle
HP 500 Space 4 squares by 8 squares Cost 3,125,000 gp
AC 3; Fortitude 20, Reflex 2
Speed fly 12 (hover), overland flight 15
Pilot
The pilot must sit at the spelljammer helm, typically at the rear of the spelljammer.
Crew
In addition to the pilot, a spelljammer requires a crew of five, all of whom use a standard action each round to help control the vessel. Reduce the spelljammer's fly speed by 4 squares for each missing crew member. At fly speed 0, the spelljammer is unable to travel and flies out of control.
Load
Thirty Medium creatures; forty tons of cargo.
Out of Control
An out-of-control spelljammer moves forward at half speed (not including any modifiers for its sails). Each round, it has 75% chance of descending. It descends 5 squares for the first 10 rounds it's out of control. After 10 rounds, it descends 10 squares per round. An out-of-control spelljammer that hits the ground after descending more than 20 squares is destroyed.
Sails
The spelljammer takes a penalty or bonus to its fly speed from -4 to +4 depending on the strength and direction of the wind.
Spelljammer Helm (Navigation Focus)
This vehicle is equipped with a spelljamming helm, which is the navigation focus for the Plane Shift ritual."
All 4e Spelljammers could Planeshift. This is one of the reasons why folks suggests that they might merge Spelljammer and Planescape, because 4e sort of already did in a sense. There have been other hints of this as well.
There was some good parts, like uniting all the broken chunks (like extra Elven and Dwarven Gods from Dragon Magazine for the Forgotten Realms) of racial Pantheons into unified Demihuman (Pantheons), BUT your right a lot of the lore was an absolutely hot mess and not just for the Forgotten Realms. In some ways MTOF is a worse book then the SCAG, although the Beastairy was great, so was the Gith section, and the deity lists, but the rest were hugely flawed. They forgot that Luiren the Halfling nation even exists. They messed up the lore on Evermeet, Shadar Kai (I'm fine with making them elves, but there was no attempt to make the lore cohesive with what came before), and so on.
Right, I'm fine with them adding some of the deities like Zin--forgetting the rest of her name lol (though I felt like they shoehorned the Raven Queen in), and as you said, there was no attempt at making the lore cohesive, not to mention what they did with the lore for Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, the history of Lolth and Corellon, elven souls being denied permanent residence in Arvandor (while elves have long believed in reincarnation, it wasn't something they were forced into) because of what the "primal elves" did, treating the drow as essentially soulless...just a hot mess, as you said.
I've seen Evermeet mentioned several times, what has been changed in the book regarding the lore of the island?
100% agree with the MtG stuff. Theros is fun, and easy to design epic campaigns. I felt like GGtR was super alien to the concepts of D&D. The place lacks even a semblance of plausibility for me, which makes it confusing to run. Sigil is easier to understand for me!
Actually, Mystara was brought to date in 2e and the whole Hollow World setting, and that was brought into 3.0 by fans.
I Think we need to have a Greyhawk setting. Let's face it- Half the canon, the modules, characters, and so on, were from Greyhawk, which I personally thought never got a proper storyline even as the home setting for 3.0/3.5.
As the only setting with a half-demon demigod as a ruler, and a country controlled by an undead of some sort (What exactly is the Overking these days?), this is a true swords and sorcery setting. It matched the personality and style of at least 80% of my players, and I've had lots of players through the years. There are storylines that have never been followed, and many that shouldn't have been followed, and several that ended, well- let's just say Doomgrinder was a waste of possibilities.
It annoys me that Greyhawk material has been retrofitted into FR, too. Like FR doesn't have any material of its own or something. And if FR was the most popular setting then why is the Greyhawk material more popular than the FR material? Frankly, I think it's because the stupid books took control of my setting from me. And others felt the same way. I want modules, I want options and meat for the cities and countries and monsters, but I want the wars and politics and interplanar things, the big choices, to be mine and my players alone.
Cue Wild magic and Dead magic areas, A LA 2e. Cue up the gods war. Cue the Spellplague. Blah blah blah. And I was an early adopter, that boxed set with the lone warrior on the moor captured my attention. I had a group of AD&D players that numbered in the teens that all got to about level 16. It was my second longest running campaign. I still own the original "ruins of adventure". But, I also own a copy of 1e's 'keep on the borderlands' and stuff like "Liberation of Geoff" and "White Plume Mountain", which were all Greyhawk.
Tales from the Yawning Portal just made me sad.
We need Greyhawk. It's part of D&D's original DNA, it's entwined and synonymous with Dungeons and Dragons.
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” John Stuart Mill, 1867
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Attributed to Edmund Burke, 1961 (It is conjectured that he never said it.)
The Souless Drow thing is a misunderstanding of what were trying to suggest. Really Drow don't really have Elvish souls like other Elves do in the book and so they just stay in Arvendor when they die if they worshipped the Seldarine, instead of reincarnating, just like none elven worshippers. Elistraea's Drow worshippers souls disappear, but it's unknown what happens to them.
See what they did in the book is rip off Gnostism, giving it an Elvish spin. Corellon becomes the "True" God, the other Gods become Aeons (Seldarine), or Archons (Dark Seldarine), and Lolth becomes the Demiurge. They are all functionally eminations of Corellon like all Elves, with regular elves possessing divine sparks of Corellon's essence, like human souls in Gnostism being sparks of their "God Beyond God".
It's a cool idea, but it's so disconnected from all the other lore then it ends up a huge mess making no sense.
WotC keeps messing up the lore and that is bad for immersion. I hope they up their game.
MTOFs completely unmoored it from the Forgotten Realms and basically turned it into the Sigil for Elves throughout the D&D multiverse.
I at least was also referring to the novel Evermeet: Island of Elves by Elaine Cunningham. The whole thing is a great read, but if you want to see how MToF changed elven and drow lore, read the beginning.
Is that what they were implying? Drow souls stay in Arvandor? That isn't what the book implied, and even if that was the case, given the rest of the context of MToF, that makes little sense. Why would the drow, who sided with Lolth, get better treatment (ie, not forced reincarnation) than the elves? And the Eilistraeens in particular, who are actually good drow and thus deserve a good afterlife, disappear and go to an unknown place? Not only does that contradict established lore, but it makes little sense.
I'm all for drow not ending up in the Abyss, but the book really made it sound like they were basically soulless, with even the fate of Eilistraeens being unknown, and again, if it was indeed meant that they stay in Arvandor, that makes little sense, considering the whole treachery.
No, the elven lore changes I get, I was asking specifically about Evermeet because I saw that someone mentioned it.