The main reason was too much writing. There are a thousand different combinations? Too much writing.
Exactly why I proposed a fairly simple way for making hybrid race characters in this post. It would be a ton of combinations if you were to make an individual races for each hybrid.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Isn't this sort of what the race flexibility in Tasha's is leaning toward anyway? And if I got a step further, is this how Pathfinder handles "lineage" or "legacy" or whatever they call it instead of racial features? That's not a diss to what ThirdSundering wrote up, I've also thought of going forward where "traits from ancestry" could be adopted, so, like Third proposes, you don't have a stock template for your heritage but a range of traits to choose from that manifest in your character, and even postulated a "post racial" so to speak world where some characters can opt to inherit traits in lieu of feats.
A "next level" build or layer on this, especially for plane touched legacies (abyssal/infernal, celestial, elemental) would be feats available at higher levels that build upon those originating expressed traits. "Winged" for example taken at first level might allow you to do feather fall once per day. At fourth level a feat could be opted that enables "jump" once per day, eight "flight" etc. "Darkvision" could be taken as the usual humanoid trait, at fourth the ability to see in even magical darkness, at eight you vision can see through illusory disguises and even see someone's true nature when polymorphed etc. I haven't worked it out as detailed as Third's proposal, but I could see someone build on it.
(I think the winged example I actually got from a home-brew or published sub race of Fey'Re).
Isn't this sort of what the race flexibility in Tasha's is leaning toward anyway? And if I got a step further, is this how Pathfinder handles "lineage" or "legacy" or whatever they call it instead of racial features? That's not a diss to what ThirdSundering wrote up, I've also thought of going forward where "traits from ancestry" could be adopted, and even postulated a "post racial" so to speak world where some characters can opt to inherit traits in lieu of feats.
No, actually, it's not where Tasha's is leaning toward. Tasha's Lineage system is where a race that was raised in a culture or other setting where they wouldn't get their typical racial features (ASIs, skills, tools, languages, weapons, etc), whereas the system I suggested would work side by side with that system. Mine is for creating literal hybrid race characters, whereas Tasha's Lineage system is for creating characters who are unique among their own race.
(I don't know much about pathfinder's heritage system, or whatever it's called, but I don't think that it's super similar to my system.)
For example, using my system, a Tiefling-Goliath would get Infernal and Giant languages, a +2 to either Charisma, Constitution, or Strength, and a +1 to any of the other ability scores, would be able to take Wings from the Feral Tiefling, Stone's Endurance, as well as resistance to either fire or cold damage, and proficiency with Athletics.
However, with the Tasha's System, a character of the same race hybrid would still have wings, stone's endurance, and resistance to either fire or cold damage, but would be able to have a +2 to any ability score of their choice as well as a +1 to any other ability score of their choice, two languages of the player's choice, and a skill of the player's choice.
Tasha's Lineage system is for outliers of their own race, while my hybrid system and other proposed hybrid race systems would allow for outlier characters as a result of two different races breeding.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
For example, using my system, a Tiefling-Goliath would get Infernal and Giant languages, a +2 to either Charisma, Constitution, or Strength, and a +1 to any of the other ability scores, would be able to take Wings from the Feral Tiefling, Stone's Endurance, as well as resistance to either fire or cold damage, and proficiency with Athletics.
That seems insanely powerful, and also creates a situation of why wouldn't you just play the best combination of racial traits for the type of character that you are playing/why would you ever play a 'primary' race if the hybrid races give you what is special about the 'primary' race plus other stuff?
The system is certainly interesting, but it invalidates the other races. That being said I totally realize that exact thing happens with basic half-elves.
For example, using my system, a Tiefling-Goliath would get Infernal and Giant languages, a +2 to either Charisma, Constitution, or Strength, and a +1 to any of the other ability scores, would be able to take Wings from the Feral Tiefling, Stone's Endurance, as well as resistance to either fire or cold damage, and proficiency with Athletics.
That seems insanely powerful, and also creates a situation of why wouldn't you just play the best combination of racial traits for the type of character that you are playing/why would you ever play a 'primary' race if the hybrid races give you what is special about the 'primary' race plus other stuff?
The system is certainly interesting, but it invalidates the other races. That being said I totally realize that exact thing happens with basic half-elves.
Not gonna lie, that's what I'm worried about with Tasha's. Maybe dwarf wizards will become better (and therefore more common) than elf ones! Which leads in to the real reason I think they don't do that many hybrids: you don't want to lose the classic fantasy feel. A lot of new players start D&D because they watched movies like Lord of the Rings and loved them, so the classic tropes are part of what makes the game fun. When you've got so many different "ultra unique" characters running around, they start to lose their uniqueness.
For example, using my system, a Tiefling-Goliath would get Infernal and Giant languages, a +2 to either Charisma, Constitution, or Strength, and a +1 to any of the other ability scores, would be able to take Wings from the Feral Tiefling, Stone's Endurance, as well as resistance to either fire or cold damage, and proficiency with Athletics.
That seems insanely powerful, and also creates a situation of why wouldn't you just play the best combination of racial traits for the type of character that you are playing/why would you ever play a 'primary' race if the hybrid races give you what is special about the 'primary' race plus other stuff?
The system is certainly interesting, but it invalidates the other races. That being said I totally realize that exact thing happens with basic half-elves.
It does happen with Half-Elves and Half-Orcs, mostly. However, I don't know if it's OP to have wings, a damage resistance, and a 1/short rest ability to reduce damage a bit.
I should probably mention that I have not playtested this system, and there will definitely be issues with it that will need working out, but the DM can easily not allow a character to use this system if they're only doing it for powergaming purposes. Your race should always be a roleplaying choice.
Also, like the PHB explains about Half-Orcs, Half-Elves, and Tieflings, they are often discriminated against within both their parent races due to the fact that they are different. This happens in real life, people are scared of and hostile to things that are new and different, even though being different isn't a bad thing (Blue Fugates).
So, my recommendation to a DM who allows a player to use this system should make sure that they aren't doing it only to take advantage of certain combinations. If they do take a race combination for a mechanical purpose, you could always remind them of the consequences of playing a character that is different from what people are typically used to (obviously don't do this if they're uncomfortable with racial discrimination in-game, but you should talk to your players about this).
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Not gonna lie, that's what I'm worried about with Tasha's. Maybe dwarf wizards will become better (and therefore more common) than elf ones! Which leads in to the real reason I think they don't do that many hybrids: you don't want to lose the classic fantasy feel. A lot of new players start D&D because they watched movies like Lord of the Rings and loved them, so the classic tropes are part of what makes the game fun. When you've got so many different "ultra unique" characters running around, they start to lose their uniqueness.
I agree. Im not a big fan of that part of Tashas. For me, half the fun is making characters that aren't inclined for a specific thing but do it anyways and that's why they stand out. Playing something like a Goliath Wizard was strange and a difficult thing to do. A paladin Kobold was rare and required work to make happen.
I personally am not going to be using that part of Tashas. At least not at first. Maybe ill change my mind after it comes out and is around for a little while.
Not gonna lie, that's what I'm worried about with Tasha's. Maybe dwarf wizards will become better (and therefore more common) than elf ones! Which leads in to the real reason I think they don't do that many hybrids: you don't want to lose the classic fantasy feel. A lot of new players start D&D because they watched movies like Lord of the Rings and loved them, so the classic tropes are part of what makes the game fun. When you've got so many different "ultra unique" characters running around, they start to lose their uniqueness.
I disagree on all accounts with this, and its mostly off topic. There have been multiple threads discussing this where I have made my opinion on the Tasha's Lineage system clear.
Also, I don't think making more unique characters possible will make Warforged, Gnomes, Dragonborn, Tabaxi, Lizardfolk, Dwarves, Grung, Changelings, Gith, and all the other races be less unique.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Isn't this sort of what the race flexibility in Tasha's is leaning toward anyway? And if I got a step further, is this how Pathfinder handles "lineage" or "legacy" or whatever they call it instead of racial features? That's not a diss to what ThirdSundering wrote up, I've also thought of going forward where "traits from ancestry" could be adopted, and even postulated a "post racial" so to speak world where some characters can opt to inherit traits in lieu of feats.
No, actually, it's not where Tasha's is leaning toward. Tasha's Lineage system is where a race that was raised in a culture or other setting where they wouldn't get their typical racial features (ASIs, skills, tools, languages, weapons, etc), whereas the system I suggested would work side by side with that system. Mine is for creating literal hybrid race characters, whereas Tasha's Lineage system is for creating characters who are unique among their own race.
(I don't know much about pathfinder's heritage system, or whatever it's called, but I don't think that it's super similar to my system.)
For example, using my system, a Tiefling-Goliath would get Infernal and Giant languages, a +2 to either Charisma, Constitution, or Strength, and a +1 to any of the other ability scores, would be able to take Wings from the Feral Tiefling, Stone's Endurance, as well as resistance to either fire or cold damage, and proficiency with Athletics.
However, with the Tasha's System, a character of the same race hybrid would still have wings, stone's endurance, and resistance to either fire or cold damage, but would be able to have a +2 to any ability score of their choice as well as a +1 to any other ability score of their choice, two languages of the player's choice, and a skill of the player's choice.
Tasha's Lineage system is for outliers of their own race, while my hybrid system and other proposed hybrid race systems would allow for outlier characters as a result of two different races breeding.
Around minute 19:00 of here they get into the forthcoming custom lineage sidebar options, which speaks more to what I'm talking about, and I may go further and say it makes your matrix moot. Why have an expansive chart when there's a sidebar that allows you to pick characteristics to have a unique origin, or what I'm saying a melting pot origin (well, like a lot of people in this city, my folks people are from all over. I got elf uncles, dwarf nephews, goblinoid cousins ... and somewhere in the family history it was said my great grandfather was touched by the gods). Most racial features are already reproduced as feats anyway, custom lineage opens that up. Sure it's open to mix maxers and advantage engineers, which is way I always think character creations should be a collaborative effort with the DM.
In other words, you could have two parents who present as human, have offspring, one of whom has dark vision. Why? Well maybe two three generations back one of their family trees did intertwine with another humanoid family tree where dark vision was a common trait. Or, there's some family dabbling with the fey or other planar entities where upon the powers of that plane took "notice" upon the human family trees and every so often children are born manifesting abilities more reflective of inhabitants of those plains, or with that particular birth the child was "chosen" by an entity to carry these gifts. These could be unique or you could open the floodgates in some cosmopolitan area where folks just have a range of skins tones, scales, dental configurations, ear sizes and pointy spectrums, tails of what have you. It's a possibility.
Isn't this sort of what the race flexibility in Tasha's is leaning toward anyway? And if I got a step further, is this how Pathfinder handles "lineage" or "legacy" or whatever they call it instead of racial features? That's not a diss to what ThirdSundering wrote up, I've also thought of going forward where "traits from ancestry" could be adopted, and even postulated a "post racial" so to speak world where some characters can opt to inherit traits in lieu of feats.
No, actually, it's not where Tasha's is leaning toward. Tasha's Lineage system is where a race that was raised in a culture or other setting where they wouldn't get their typical racial features (ASIs, skills, tools, languages, weapons, etc), whereas the system I suggested would work side by side with that system. Mine is for creating literal hybrid race characters, whereas Tasha's Lineage system is for creating characters who are unique among their own race.
(I don't know much about pathfinder's heritage system, or whatever it's called, but I don't think that it's super similar to my system.)
For example, using my system, a Tiefling-Goliath would get Infernal and Giant languages, a +2 to either Charisma, Constitution, or Strength, and a +1 to any of the other ability scores, would be able to take Wings from the Feral Tiefling, Stone's Endurance, as well as resistance to either fire or cold damage, and proficiency with Athletics.
However, with the Tasha's System, a character of the same race hybrid would still have wings, stone's endurance, and resistance to either fire or cold damage, but would be able to have a +2 to any ability score of their choice as well as a +1 to any other ability score of their choice, two languages of the player's choice, and a skill of the player's choice.
Tasha's Lineage system is for outliers of their own race, while my hybrid system and other proposed hybrid race systems would allow for outlier characters as a result of two different races breeding.
Around minute 19:00 of here they get into the forthcoming custom lineage sidebar options, which speaks more to what I'm talking about, and I may go further and say it makes your matrix moot. Why have an expansive chart when there's a sidebar that allows you to pick characteristics to have a unique origin, or what I'm saying a melting pot origin (well, like a lot of people in this city, my folks people are from all over. I got elf uncles, dwarf nephews, goblinoid cousins ... and somewhere in the family history it was said my great grandfather was touched by the gods). Most racial features are already reproduced as feats anyway, custom lineage opens that up. Sure it's open to mix maxers and advantage engineers, which is way I always think character creations should be a collaborative effort with the DM.
In other words, you could have two parents who present as human, have offspring, one of whom has dark vision. Why? Well maybe two three generations back one of their family trees did intertwine with another humanoid family tree where dark vision was a common trait. Or, there's some family dabbling with the fey or other planar entities where upon the powers of that plane took "notice" upon the human family trees and every so often children are born manifesting abilities more reflective of inhabitants of those plains, or with that particular birth the child was "chosen" by an entity to carry these gifts. These could be unique or you could open the floodgates in some cosmopolitan area where folks just have a range of skins tones, scales, dental configurations, ear sizes and pointy spectrums, tails of what have you. It's a possibility.
I saw that video just about 30 minutes before you posted that and was going to come back to change my post. That system does seem a bit similar in some ways, but also very different. If you want to play a unique character race that has 2 parent races, my system (or one similar to it) is for that character, while a character whose origins are more obscure, vague, and diverse is for the Lineage System. That system is more like a Variant Human than an actually hybrid race character. It doesn't "make my matrix moot." For people who don't like super-dumbed down "systems" for creating hybrid race characters, a system like the one I proposed would probably work the best for that. I'm not dissing on the system they made, either. I think that could a good system for certain characters that want to be even more unique, like a shadowfell-warped halfling or feywild-touched kobold, but for a character who wants to play a half-kalashtar, half-dark elf would probably be better off using a system like mine.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I don't know about "canon book", but everyone who is reading this forum and writing in this forum is human. Which means we all know what it is like to be human.
The fact that Dwarves and Elves and Halflings (maybe to a lesser extent since they are basically human) and Gnomes are playable severely reduces just how alien they can really be. I think D&D 5E makes light of this in how the monster manual has no entry for how Dwarf or Elf opponents ought to function as opponets, but has entries for how such equally human races such as Orcs and Hobgoblins function in battle. In fact, forget just Dwarves and Elves-- apparently everything from Dragonborn to Tiefling are meant to be fully represented by the NPC templates rather than deserving their own monster manual entries. Meaning the game is functionally denying that there is any significant difference between a Gnome and a Dragonborn, while asserting that Orcs-- basically just oddly colored humans with tusks who live in harsh conditions-- require their own specific monster manual entries to describe their battle tactics.
All considered-- if one had a setting where someone could be human, half-elf, half-orc, half-hobgoblin- half-dwarf,, half-gnome, half-fiend, or half-celestial-- so that ultimately any given character was at least half-human to account for the fact that they are being played by humans who will almost certainly have them act in a very human manner while the full-blooded versions of these races were something quite alien that were controlled solely by the DM-- I think I could totally respect a game that functioned in such a way.
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Exactly why I proposed a fairly simple way for making hybrid race characters in this post. It would be a ton of combinations if you were to make an individual races for each hybrid.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Isn't this sort of what the race flexibility in Tasha's is leaning toward anyway? And if I got a step further, is this how Pathfinder handles "lineage" or "legacy" or whatever they call it instead of racial features? That's not a diss to what ThirdSundering wrote up, I've also thought of going forward where "traits from ancestry" could be adopted, so, like Third proposes, you don't have a stock template for your heritage but a range of traits to choose from that manifest in your character, and even postulated a "post racial" so to speak world where some characters can opt to inherit traits in lieu of feats.
A "next level" build or layer on this, especially for plane touched legacies (abyssal/infernal, celestial, elemental) would be feats available at higher levels that build upon those originating expressed traits. "Winged" for example taken at first level might allow you to do feather fall once per day. At fourth level a feat could be opted that enables "jump" once per day, eight "flight" etc. "Darkvision" could be taken as the usual humanoid trait, at fourth the ability to see in even magical darkness, at eight you vision can see through illusory disguises and even see someone's true nature when polymorphed etc. I haven't worked it out as detailed as Third's proposal, but I could see someone build on it.
(I think the winged example I actually got from a home-brew or published sub race of Fey'Re).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
No, actually, it's not where Tasha's is leaning toward. Tasha's Lineage system is where a race that was raised in a culture or other setting where they wouldn't get their typical racial features (ASIs, skills, tools, languages, weapons, etc), whereas the system I suggested would work side by side with that system. Mine is for creating literal hybrid race characters, whereas Tasha's Lineage system is for creating characters who are unique among their own race.
(I don't know much about pathfinder's heritage system, or whatever it's called, but I don't think that it's super similar to my system.)
For example, using my system, a Tiefling-Goliath would get Infernal and Giant languages, a +2 to either Charisma, Constitution, or Strength, and a +1 to any of the other ability scores, would be able to take Wings from the Feral Tiefling, Stone's Endurance, as well as resistance to either fire or cold damage, and proficiency with Athletics.
However, with the Tasha's System, a character of the same race hybrid would still have wings, stone's endurance, and resistance to either fire or cold damage, but would be able to have a +2 to any ability score of their choice as well as a +1 to any other ability score of their choice, two languages of the player's choice, and a skill of the player's choice.
Tasha's Lineage system is for outliers of their own race, while my hybrid system and other proposed hybrid race systems would allow for outlier characters as a result of two different races breeding.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
That seems insanely powerful, and also creates a situation of why wouldn't you just play the best combination of racial traits for the type of character that you are playing/why would you ever play a 'primary' race if the hybrid races give you what is special about the 'primary' race plus other stuff?
The system is certainly interesting, but it invalidates the other races. That being said I totally realize that exact thing happens with basic half-elves.
Buyers Guide for D&D Beyond - Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You - How/What is Toggled Content?
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
Not gonna lie, that's what I'm worried about with Tasha's. Maybe dwarf wizards will become better (and therefore more common) than elf ones! Which leads in to the real reason I think they don't do that many hybrids: you don't want to lose the classic fantasy feel. A lot of new players start D&D because they watched movies like Lord of the Rings and loved them, so the classic tropes are part of what makes the game fun. When you've got so many different "ultra unique" characters running around, they start to lose their uniqueness.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
It does happen with Half-Elves and Half-Orcs, mostly. However, I don't know if it's OP to have wings, a damage resistance, and a 1/short rest ability to reduce damage a bit.
I should probably mention that I have not playtested this system, and there will definitely be issues with it that will need working out, but the DM can easily not allow a character to use this system if they're only doing it for powergaming purposes. Your race should always be a roleplaying choice.
Also, like the PHB explains about Half-Orcs, Half-Elves, and Tieflings, they are often discriminated against within both their parent races due to the fact that they are different. This happens in real life, people are scared of and hostile to things that are new and different, even though being different isn't a bad thing (Blue Fugates).
So, my recommendation to a DM who allows a player to use this system should make sure that they aren't doing it only to take advantage of certain combinations. If they do take a race combination for a mechanical purpose, you could always remind them of the consequences of playing a character that is different from what people are typically used to (obviously don't do this if they're uncomfortable with racial discrimination in-game, but you should talk to your players about this).
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I agree. Im not a big fan of that part of Tashas. For me, half the fun is making characters that aren't inclined for a specific thing but do it anyways and that's why they stand out. Playing something like a Goliath Wizard was strange and a difficult thing to do. A paladin Kobold was rare and required work to make happen.
I personally am not going to be using that part of Tashas. At least not at first. Maybe ill change my mind after it comes out and is around for a little while.
Buyers Guide for D&D Beyond - Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You - How/What is Toggled Content?
Everything you need to know about Homebrew - Homebrew FAQ - Digital Book on D&D Beyond Vs Physical Books
Can't find the content you are supposed to have access to? Read this FAQ.
"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
I disagree on all accounts with this, and its mostly off topic. There have been multiple threads discussing this where I have made my opinion on the Tasha's Lineage system clear.
Also, I don't think making more unique characters possible will make Warforged, Gnomes, Dragonborn, Tabaxi, Lizardfolk, Dwarves, Grung, Changelings, Gith, and all the other races be less unique.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Around minute 19:00 of here they get into the forthcoming custom lineage sidebar options, which speaks more to what I'm talking about, and I may go further and say it makes your matrix moot. Why have an expansive chart when there's a sidebar that allows you to pick characteristics to have a unique origin, or what I'm saying a melting pot origin (well, like a lot of people in this city, my folks people are from all over. I got elf uncles, dwarf nephews, goblinoid cousins ... and somewhere in the family history it was said my great grandfather was touched by the gods). Most racial features are already reproduced as feats anyway, custom lineage opens that up. Sure it's open to mix maxers and advantage engineers, which is way I always think character creations should be a collaborative effort with the DM.
In other words, you could have two parents who present as human, have offspring, one of whom has dark vision. Why? Well maybe two three generations back one of their family trees did intertwine with another humanoid family tree where dark vision was a common trait. Or, there's some family dabbling with the fey or other planar entities where upon the powers of that plane took "notice" upon the human family trees and every so often children are born manifesting abilities more reflective of inhabitants of those plains, or with that particular birth the child was "chosen" by an entity to carry these gifts. These could be unique or you could open the floodgates in some cosmopolitan area where folks just have a range of skins tones, scales, dental configurations, ear sizes and pointy spectrums, tails of what have you. It's a possibility.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I saw that video just about 30 minutes before you posted that and was going to come back to change my post. That system does seem a bit similar in some ways, but also very different. If you want to play a unique character race that has 2 parent races, my system (or one similar to it) is for that character, while a character whose origins are more obscure, vague, and diverse is for the Lineage System. That system is more like a Variant Human than an actually hybrid race character. It doesn't "make my matrix moot." For people who don't like super-dumbed down "systems" for creating hybrid race characters, a system like the one I proposed would probably work the best for that. I'm not dissing on the system they made, either. I think that could a good system for certain characters that want to be even more unique, like a shadowfell-warped halfling or feywild-touched kobold, but for a character who wants to play a half-kalashtar, half-dark elf would probably be better off using a system like mine.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I don't know about "canon book", but everyone who is reading this forum and writing in this forum is human. Which means we all know what it is like to be human.
The fact that Dwarves and Elves and Halflings (maybe to a lesser extent since they are basically human) and Gnomes are playable severely reduces just how alien they can really be. I think D&D 5E makes light of this in how the monster manual has no entry for how Dwarf or Elf opponents ought to function as opponets, but has entries for how such equally human races such as Orcs and Hobgoblins function in battle. In fact, forget just Dwarves and Elves-- apparently everything from Dragonborn to Tiefling are meant to be fully represented by the NPC templates rather than deserving their own monster manual entries. Meaning the game is functionally denying that there is any significant difference between a Gnome and a Dragonborn, while asserting that Orcs-- basically just oddly colored humans with tusks who live in harsh conditions-- require their own specific monster manual entries to describe their battle tactics.
All considered-- if one had a setting where someone could be human, half-elf, half-orc, half-hobgoblin- half-dwarf,, half-gnome, half-fiend, or half-celestial-- so that ultimately any given character was at least half-human to account for the fact that they are being played by humans who will almost certainly have them act in a very human manner while the full-blooded versions of these races were something quite alien that were controlled solely by the DM-- I think I could totally respect a game that functioned in such a way.