Can I get your ideas in this Half Elf, Bard, please? This is about the 10th incarnation of my original idea for an Elf character. I started off as a Drow and went through various incarnations, trying different classes, until I ended up with him.
I don’t know what it is but I just can’t seem to get this character right. I am trying to get a character that has high utility, while remaining a decent character during combat encounters. Someone who can easily switch between healer and fighter.
ive asked various questions on other forums, tried different classes and races and I just not feeling it, but can’t see what I’m doing wrong.
Maybe you guys can point out where I’m going wrong.
Well, as a level 1 character, being highly effective is, uh, not going to happen? Charm Person and Friends is probably redundant. Charmed isn't really a combat spell anymore. Viscious Mockery-- though a bit of a cliché-- is a really great defensive spell against enemies like ogre any other monsters that hit hard and have weak minds. Disadvantage on attack rolls? It can save party members in rough situations against a single target.
Aside from that, the character looks fairly solid for a level 1. Bards can be tough and there are definitely crunchier combat classes you could use and still support, but +5 on attack rolls is pretty much as high as that is going to get for any class. I'm not sure what isn't working for you so I can't really tell you how to fix it.
You're going to have to be more specific about what you don't like or why you're not feeling it. What I see is a relatively standard Bard for level 1. I'm not sure how much more of the things you want to do (utility, healing, fighting) could possibly be better at level 1. What more do you want?
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
In 40 years of doin' this, when folk (myself or others) aren't feelin' it, it's a background, story, rhyme, reason, and flavor sort of thing. The character doesn't stand out to you. You made some generic thing because you weren't sure of the goal you were goin' for. You didn't build a Vader, Joker, Denzel in Training Day, Jack Sparrow, Doc Holliday in Tombstone sort of character - something incredible, memorable, with layers of complexity and such. The roleplay of a thing.
What it sounds like is your going for the rollplay sort of character. Whether min/maxing, optimizing, best building or whatever. Not necessarily in a bad way (though I personally hate making characters from this point of view). You just simply want to maximize all that's available and make the best character you can with the options out there. In this case, you're looking at the numbers. The math of it all. As I say, the buttons you press during combat and gameplay. You want big buttons. Good buttons. Lots of buttons.
Problem is, your making a level 1 character. There's no buttons. That's why they're level 1.
Honestly seems like you want to fill several roles, which of course comes at the cost of viability in each role. See your party as your character, and find a role not already filled that you'll enjoy playing is my best advice. Not what you asked for I know.
Does he have to be a bard? A rogue has decent combat performance with sneak attack and high utility, especially if you go for a trickster I think. You won't be healing in that case.
What about a Knowledge Cleric? Healing and combat utility and out of combat utility as well.
Thanks for all your thoughts everyone. I think maybe trying to do too much and fill too many roles is the problem. Although I as planning on going Valor Bard at level 3, for the extra combat potential. So maybe I should look more at a martial class in the first place, since I was going to go there with the College of Valor.
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
What about a Knowledge Cleric? Healing and combat utility and out of combat utility as well.
I had thoughts about Cleric, but his god is; Tymora, Lady Luck. Tymora, ties into his background and his backstory.
....
Oskar was born in a brothel, to an Elf mother, who had been sold to the brothels owner by a slave trader. Being the son of a woman whom he had bought, the brothel owner, also claimed Oskar, and from a young age, put him to work entertaining the guests in the lounge. He would act and sing songs and play music and recite poetry that the brothel owner taught him, and when he wasn't doing that he would run back and forth carrying drinks and collecting empty cups. By the time he was fifteen; he was a staple in the brothel lounge, and the customers enjoyed his performances downstairs almost as much as they enjoyed the pleasures of the flesh upstairs. It was also around that time that his, owner, started grooming him for other things. Oskar had become a beautiful young man by then, with his Elvish traits only accentuating his exotic desirability, and some of the customers had expressed an interest in him. Besides, the brothels owner was planning an expansion into serving the Ladies and not just the Gentlemen of an increasingly popular haunt.
Although he liked performing Oskar didn't want the kind of life that the brothels owner was planning for him, and so he began to look for a patron. Someone wealthy enough to buy him from his owner. He got his chance when a very wealthy Halfling wine merchant showed an interest in him. He convinced her to play a game of dragon chess with him. If he won, she would buy him from the brothel and he would work free of charge for her for ten years. If he lost, then he would provide her with free services every time she visited. It was a gamble; perhaps the biggest gamble that he had taken in his entire life, if he won, he would escape a life he didn't want and then in ten years would be free, but if he lost; not only would he be trapped there, but his owner would make sure that he never got another chance to escape.
Fortunately for Oskar, the Halfling agreed to his proposal, mostly because she had been playing dragon chess all her life, and she was sure that she could beat such a young upstart, and win herself free services; and so, with a small silent prayer to Tymora, they sat down to play. Lady Luck, did indeed smile upon him that day. Fortune favors the bold, and such a bold gamble to better his life through skill and luck, earned her blessing. He won that game, and the Halfling honored her agreement and Oskar honored his. For ten years he worked for his new mistress, she taught him something about the wine trade and the two became friends. When the wine merchant opened up a part of her families estate, turning it into a tavern, Oskar took his place as the taverns main entertainment. Much as he had done in the brothels lounge, he would sing, and dance, play music, recite poetry and act on stage. He was in essence a cabaret act; and just like the brothels patrons had, the taverns patrons came back time and time again for the beer and the wine and the food, but most of all, for Oskar.
By the time the campaign starts, twenty years has passed since the Halfling and Oskar played their first game of dragon chess,. Oskar is now thirty-five, and his poetry and stories and songs are beginning to get stale. He has picked up some new material from adventures passing through over the years, but the taverns customers have slowly dwindled away, poached by copycat establishments, with new, fresh young talent. That is why he sets out on an adventure. He wants to find a way to win back the patrons poached from his friends tavern. The odds are against him; but then again, he does worship Tymora; and so he makes a gamble, he bets his life, that he will find the answers that he seeks, out there, beyond the fields and orchards of the place he has come to call home.
Making it to the nearest town without much incident, he visits his mother for a while. He hasn't seen her in many years and isn't sure how long it will be before he gets the chance to see her again. She is doing well, and has managed to find someone who bought her freedom from the brothel as well. Although they did so because they fell in love with her, and bought her freedom on condition that she would marry them. Its a bone of contention between Oskar and his mother, as he sees such a bargain as trading one master for another, and not truly gaining her freedom. None the less, his mother seems to be happy in her new life, and has given her husband a daughter. Oskar has never seen his half sister; but she is so utterly adorable, that she captures his heart, and he spends several weeks getting to know her and catching up with their mother again, attempting to smooth over any bad feelings that there might have been in the past.
Eventually though he secures a job with a small band of mercenaries and the adventure really begins.
....
For this reason, he does have to be a Bard, as that is a major part of his backstory. Also, I am not sure that his backstory and having Tymora as his god, would really fit with being a Cleric.
Classically in any RPG, based on how game balance is normally achieved, you can either be a specialist or a generalist with the character. If you want to be really great at one thing, you have to specialize. If you want to be good at lots of things, you must accept that you won't be super great at any one of them. It's simply not possible in any RPG, including 5e, to do many things but be awesome at them all.
So ultimately you have to decide, what role do you want for your character? If you want to be the damage-dealy front-liner, that's a specialization, and then you focus on that. If you want to be the guy who doesn't do that much damage but can do a little of everything, then that requires an entirely different build. As a simple example, assuming point buy for stats, with a specialist you want to crank your primary and secondary stat as high as possible. With a generalist, you probably want to spread the points out a bit more (of course you still want a good prime stat, but 3 high-teens and 3 single-digits can work for a specialist but will not usually work for a generalist).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Just throwing this out there. Other than performing, he seems very much like a Rogue style character. You could always look at Rogue with Entertainer background.
Honestly, Seeing what you have built and what you described, I think you've nailed it. You are in fact, level one so there really isn't much more that you can do. You seem to have a good grasp of your characters backstory, and until you level you are kind of going to be stuck I think.
I would also caution you from wanting to be great at everything. First, its not possible. Second, it can severely take away from the rest of your parties agency. Its no fun to play with someone who is great at everything. I might be better to discuss with everyone the roles that you want to be able to fill, as to make sure not to step on anyone's toes. Thirdly, Basically what Biowizard has said.
Hi,
Can I get your ideas in this Half Elf, Bard, please? This is about the 10th incarnation of my original idea for an Elf character. I started off as a Drow and went through various incarnations, trying different classes, until I ended up with him.
https://ddb.ac/characters/38306157/3HUIMQ
I don’t know what it is but I just can’t seem to get this character right. I am trying to get a character that has high utility, while remaining a decent character during combat encounters. Someone who can easily switch between healer and fighter.
ive asked various questions on other forums, tried different classes and races and I just not feeling it, but can’t see what I’m doing wrong.
Maybe you guys can point out where I’m going wrong.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Well, as a level 1 character, being highly effective is, uh, not going to happen? Charm Person and Friends is probably redundant. Charmed isn't really a combat spell anymore. Viscious Mockery-- though a bit of a cliché-- is a really great defensive spell against enemies like ogre any other monsters that hit hard and have weak minds. Disadvantage on attack rolls? It can save party members in rough situations against a single target.
Aside from that, the character looks fairly solid for a level 1. Bards can be tough and there are definitely crunchier combat classes you could use and still support, but +5 on attack rolls is pretty much as high as that is going to get for any class. I'm not sure what isn't working for you so I can't really tell you how to fix it.
You're going to have to be more specific about what you don't like or why you're not feeling it. What I see is a relatively standard Bard for level 1. I'm not sure how much more of the things you want to do (utility, healing, fighting) could possibly be better at level 1. What more do you want?
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
To echo what's been said.
In 40 years of doin' this, when folk (myself or others) aren't feelin' it, it's a background, story, rhyme, reason, and flavor sort of thing. The character doesn't stand out to you. You made some generic thing because you weren't sure of the goal you were goin' for. You didn't build a Vader, Joker, Denzel in Training Day, Jack Sparrow, Doc Holliday in Tombstone sort of character - something incredible, memorable, with layers of complexity and such. The roleplay of a thing.
What it sounds like is your going for the rollplay sort of character. Whether min/maxing, optimizing, best building or whatever. Not necessarily in a bad way (though I personally hate making characters from this point of view). You just simply want to maximize all that's available and make the best character you can with the options out there. In this case, you're looking at the numbers. The math of it all. As I say, the buttons you press during combat and gameplay. You want big buttons. Good buttons. Lots of buttons.
Problem is, your making a level 1 character. There's no buttons. That's why they're level 1.
As said, what exactly are you not feelin'?
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Honestly seems like you want to fill several roles, which of course comes at the cost of viability in each role. See your party as your character, and find a role not already filled that you'll enjoy playing is my best advice. Not what you asked for I know.
Does he have to be a bard? A rogue has decent combat performance with sneak attack and high utility, especially if you go for a trickster I think. You won't be healing in that case.
What about a Knowledge Cleric? Healing and combat utility and out of combat utility as well.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Thanks for all your thoughts everyone. I think maybe trying to do too much and fill too many roles is the problem. Although I as planning on going Valor Bard at level 3, for the extra combat potential. So maybe I should look more at a martial class in the first place, since I was going to go there with the College of Valor.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
I had thoughts about Cleric, but his god is; Tymora, Lady Luck. Tymora, ties into his background and his backstory.
....
Oskar was born in a brothel, to an Elf mother, who had been sold to the brothels owner by a slave trader. Being the son of a woman whom he had bought, the brothel owner, also claimed Oskar, and from a young age, put him to work entertaining the guests in the lounge. He would act and sing songs and play music and recite poetry that the brothel owner taught him, and when he wasn't doing that he would run back and forth carrying drinks and collecting empty cups. By the time he was fifteen; he was a staple in the brothel lounge, and the customers enjoyed his performances downstairs almost as much as they enjoyed the pleasures of the flesh upstairs. It was also around that time that his, owner, started grooming him for other things. Oskar had become a beautiful young man by then, with his Elvish traits only accentuating his exotic desirability, and some of the customers had expressed an interest in him. Besides, the brothels owner was planning an expansion into serving the Ladies and not just the Gentlemen of an increasingly popular haunt.
Although he liked performing Oskar didn't want the kind of life that the brothels owner was planning for him, and so he began to look for a patron. Someone wealthy enough to buy him from his owner. He got his chance when a very wealthy Halfling wine merchant showed an interest in him. He convinced her to play a game of dragon chess with him. If he won, she would buy him from the brothel and he would work free of charge for her for ten years. If he lost, then he would provide her with free services every time she visited. It was a gamble; perhaps the biggest gamble that he had taken in his entire life, if he won, he would escape a life he didn't want and then in ten years would be free, but if he lost; not only would he be trapped there, but his owner would make sure that he never got another chance to escape.
Fortunately for Oskar, the Halfling agreed to his proposal, mostly because she had been playing dragon chess all her life, and she was sure that she could beat such a young upstart, and win herself free services; and so, with a small silent prayer to Tymora, they sat down to play. Lady Luck, did indeed smile upon him that day. Fortune favors the bold, and such a bold gamble to better his life through skill and luck, earned her blessing. He won that game, and the Halfling honored her agreement and Oskar honored his. For ten years he worked for his new mistress, she taught him something about the wine trade and the two became friends. When the wine merchant opened up a part of her families estate, turning it into a tavern, Oskar took his place as the taverns main entertainment. Much as he had done in the brothels lounge, he would sing, and dance, play music, recite poetry and act on stage. He was in essence a cabaret act; and just like the brothels patrons had, the taverns patrons came back time and time again for the beer and the wine and the food, but most of all, for Oskar.
By the time the campaign starts, twenty years has passed since the Halfling and Oskar played their first game of dragon chess,. Oskar is now thirty-five, and his poetry and stories and songs are beginning to get stale. He has picked up some new material from adventures passing through over the years, but the taverns customers have slowly dwindled away, poached by copycat establishments, with new, fresh young talent. That is why he sets out on an adventure. He wants to find a way to win back the patrons poached from his friends tavern. The odds are against him; but then again, he does worship Tymora; and so he makes a gamble, he bets his life, that he will find the answers that he seeks, out there, beyond the fields and orchards of the place he has come to call home.
Making it to the nearest town without much incident, he visits his mother for a while. He hasn't seen her in many years and isn't sure how long it will be before he gets the chance to see her again. She is doing well, and has managed to find someone who bought her freedom from the brothel as well. Although they did so because they fell in love with her, and bought her freedom on condition that she would marry them. Its a bone of contention between Oskar and his mother, as he sees such a bargain as trading one master for another, and not truly gaining her freedom. None the less, his mother seems to be happy in her new life, and has given her husband a daughter. Oskar has never seen his half sister; but she is so utterly adorable, that she captures his heart, and he spends several weeks getting to know her and catching up with their mother again, attempting to smooth over any bad feelings that there might have been in the past.
Eventually though he secures a job with a small band of mercenaries and the adventure really begins.
....
For this reason, he does have to be a Bard, as that is a major part of his backstory. Also, I am not sure that his backstory and having Tymora as his god, would really fit with being a Cleric.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Classically in any RPG, based on how game balance is normally achieved, you can either be a specialist or a generalist with the character. If you want to be really great at one thing, you have to specialize. If you want to be good at lots of things, you must accept that you won't be super great at any one of them. It's simply not possible in any RPG, including 5e, to do many things but be awesome at them all.
So ultimately you have to decide, what role do you want for your character? If you want to be the damage-dealy front-liner, that's a specialization, and then you focus on that. If you want to be the guy who doesn't do that much damage but can do a little of everything, then that requires an entirely different build. As a simple example, assuming point buy for stats, with a specialist you want to crank your primary and secondary stat as high as possible. With a generalist, you probably want to spread the points out a bit more (of course you still want a good prime stat, but 3 high-teens and 3 single-digits can work for a specialist but will not usually work for a generalist).
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Just throwing this out there. Other than performing, he seems very much like a Rogue style character. You could always look at Rogue with Entertainer background.
Honestly, Seeing what you have built and what you described, I think you've nailed it. You are in fact, level one so there really isn't much more that you can do. You seem to have a good grasp of your characters backstory, and until you level you are kind of going to be stuck I think.
I would also caution you from wanting to be great at everything. First, its not possible. Second, it can severely take away from the rest of your parties agency. Its no fun to play with someone who is great at everything. I might be better to discuss with everyone the roles that you want to be able to fill, as to make sure not to step on anyone's toes. Thirdly, Basically what Biowizard has said.
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