I got to say, there is a consensus against this idea from a wide range of proposals and it's becoming clear you're just refusing to recognize it. You say it is "balanced" and every poster as far as I know on this thread has said "no it's not." Everyone's arguments seem pretty cogent, insightful and definitely rules based. Mage Armor at will as a "fighting style" is just imbalanced compared to the other fighting styles available in the fighter class feature. The elven and Gith examples you use, both those races have just enough magic in their racial features to allow for a build where the assumption of Eldritch or Psi Knight makes sense.
Lastly, you can get what you want if you leave fighting styles alone, build variant humans or custom legacy (to stick with your "raised to be one of these Jedi" from birth flavor claim) and take Eldritch Adept as a feat and get your mage armor. If the rules allow you to do what you want without getting under the hood of the class, follow the rules.
If you're not really considering the arguments against your idea, you're just pushing back in bad faith hoping someone will show up to this thread to agree with you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
• The Fighter loses access to Medium and Heavy armor.
• The Fighter gains Mage Armor and when using it can substitute Intelligence for the AC bonus instead of Dexterity.
At level 1, the Heavy-Armor Fighter is guaranteed by the Players Handbook Fighter equipment to have chainmail armor. AC 16. (A shield may or may not be on top of this.)
At level 1, the Mage-Armor Fighter is guaranteed Mage Armor. AC 13. With Intelligence 16, this becomes AC 16. (A shield may or may not be on top of this.)
The AC is exactly the same at level 1! There is no benefit to AC by choosing Mage Armor for ones flavor of armor.
Meanwhile, the Heavy-Armor Fighter will get plate armor as soon as possible. AC 18. Thus have an AC that is superior to the Mage Armor.
The feature swaps are a wash! There is no benefit to AC.
The Warlock gets Mage Armor at level 1, and any amount Dexterity improves the AC from there. At level 1.
It’s not “Mage Armor”. It’s Mage Armor at will (which the Warlock gets at lvl 2, not 1) and based on a different stat (which can be an advantage for classes that prefer that stat over Dex).
You say you want to avoid the abuse of Dexterity, but you’re a) not preventing anyone from assigning a relatively high Dex regardless and b) opening up Intelligence for abuse (characters who had to choose between their melee stat and their spellcasting stat now get to have their cake and eat it). Eldritch Knights can be perfectly competent with a good-but-not-great Int stat. You’re attempting to fix something that isn’t broken in the first place.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The Warlock gets Mage Armor at level 1, and any amount Dexterity improves the AC from there. At level 1.
It’s not “Mage Armor”. It’s Mage Armor at will (which the Warlock gets at lvl 2, not 1) and based on a different stat (which can be an advantage for classes that prefer that stat over Dex).
You say you want to avoid the abuse of Dexterity, but you’re a) not preventing anyone from assigning a relatively high Dex regardless and b) opening up Intelligence for abuse (characters who had to choose between their melee stat and their spellcasting stat now get to have their cake and eat it). Eldritch Knights can be perfectly competent with a good-but-not-great Int stat. You’re attempting to fix something that isn’t broken in the first place.
They can have a high Dex if they want, but it wont stack with Int. Thus it would be M-A-D.
Okay, you have Mage Armor at will, and add your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class. If you have an Intelligence modifier of 20 (which you can get very quickly due to fighters having more ASIs than other classes), your base AC will be 18. That's the same as Plate Armor, not giving any of the disadvantages that plate armor gives (disadvantage on stealth, reduction to speed if your Strength is too low, being targetable with the heat metal spell, etc). Then, you can have a Shield, granting you an AC of 20, or a Double-Bladed Scimitar with Revenant Blade or Two-Weapon Fighting and Dual Wielder to get a 19 for AC. Then, if you are an Eldritch Knight you will probably have shield, allowing you to increase your AC to 23 (with no shield or AC increasing weapon), 24 (with Revenant Blade or Dual Wielder), or 25 (with a shield).
Having that high of an AC with only using one Ability Score for both your attack to hit and your armor class is unbalanced, no matter how you cut it or try to justify it. It's unbalanced and would take Intelligence from one of the worst ability scores in the game to literally the best one, requiring only one level of multiclass dipping to take.
We're not attacking you, and you don't need to defend your homebrew fighting style like your honor depends on it, but we just want to point out the balance issues with this fighting style.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
• The Fighter loses access to Medium and Heavy armor.
• The Fighter gains Mage Armor and when using it can substitute Intelligence for the AC bonus instead of Dexterity.
At level 1, the Heavy-Armor Fighter is guaranteed by the Players Handbook Fighter equipment to have chainmail armor. AC 16. (A shield may or may not be on top of this.)
At level 1, the Mage-Armor Fighter is guaranteed Mage Armor. AC 13. With Intelligence 16, this becomes AC 16. (A shield may or may not be on top of this.)
The AC is exactly the same at level 1! There is no benefit to AC by choosing Mage Armor for ones flavor of armor.
Meanwhile, the Heavy-Armor Fighter will get plate armor as soon as possible. AC 18. Thus have an AC that is superior to the Mage Armor.
The feature swaps are a wash! There is no benefit to AC.
Except your first fighter had to assign his best stat to Dex and thus a lower one to Int, reducing his casting ability. The heavy armor fighter has to add Str to the mix. The mage armor fighter can match the heavy armor fighter’s AC, the regular fighter can’t (med armour AC, without shield, tops at 17). Armour adds to encumbrance and some of them impose Disadvantage on Stealth. Armour has to be donned and doffed, which takes a non-trivial amount of time. It’s not a wash.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The armor swap part is not the only part of the Fighting style you're proposing. You're sorta correct that it's a wash except it makes you single attribute dependent. AND you get a ton of other stuff. Use this if you really want but it's going to be OP.
• The Fighter loses access to Medium and Heavy armor.
• The Fighter gains Mage Armor and when using it can substitute Intelligence for the AC bonus instead of Dexterity.
At level 1, the Heavy-Armor Fighter is guaranteed by the Players Handbook Fighter equipment to have chainmail armor. AC 16. (A shield may or may not be on top of this.)
At level 1, the Mage-Armor Fighter is guaranteed Mage Armor. AC 13. With Intelligence 16, this becomes AC 16. (A shield may or may not be on top of this.)
The AC is exactly the same at level 1! There is no benefit to AC by choosing Mage Armor for ones flavor of armor.
Meanwhile, the Heavy-Armor Fighter will get plate armor as soon as possible. AC 18. Thus have an AC that is superior to the Mage Armor.
The feature swaps are a wash! There is no benefit to AC.
(edited to save space)
There is no benefit to AC, but that doesn't make it not overpowered. It lets you be an Intelligence-based Hexblade with a Battle Smith's Battle Ready on every attack you do, as well as a way better version of the High Elf's Cantrip feature and an Armor of Shadows combined with part of Bladesong. The AC will be as good as a heavy armor using Fighter's, its attack bonus will be as good as a Battle Smith's with magic weapons, and it gets any cantrip from any list of their choice. Additionally, you get absolutely none of the disadvantages of heavy armor, while getting all of its benefits, and more.
All of that at level one? Just taking a fighting style? That's way, way, way too much. It's ridiculously OP. It doesn't matter if you give up your Medium and Heavy Armor proficiency, they were doing nothing for you anyway. Eldritch Knights are okay already (not great, and they don't fit the role of a swordmage/duskblade, but this doesn't fix that anyway), this just blows them above basically every other arcane gishing class/subclass in the game. They didn't need that. Psychic Warriors don't need this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Okay, you have Mage Armor at will, and add your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class. If you have an Intelligence modifier of 20 (which you can get very quickly due to fighters having more ASIs than other classes), your base AC will be 18. That's the same as Plate Armor, not giving any of the disadvantages that plate armor gives (disadvantage on stealth, reduction to speed if your Strength is too low, being targetable with the heat metal spell, etc). Then, you can have a Shield, granting you an AC of 20, or a Double-Bladed Scimitar with Revenant Blade or Two-Weapon Fighting and Dual Wielder to get a 19 for AC. Then, if you are an Eldritch Knight you will probably have shield, allowing you to increase your AC to 23 (with no shield or AC increasing weapon), 24 (with Revenant Blade or Dual Wielder), or 25 (with a shield).
Having that high of an AC with only using one Ability Score for both your attack to hit and your armor class is unbalanced, no matter how you cut it or try to justify it. It's unbalanced and would take Intelligence from one of the worst ability scores in the game to literally the best one, requiring only one level of multiclass dipping to take.
We're not attacking you, and you don't need to defend your homebrew fighting style like your honor depends on it, but we just want to point out the balance issues with this fighting style.
This is a discussion about D&D mechanics. Anyone who tried to make this personal or ad-hominem would be violating the code of conduct.
The earliest the Mage Fighter can get Int 20 is a level 4 human, after spending TWO feats to boost Int for only modest improvement to AC. For a Fighter, it is normally better to use the feat to enhance combat, such as for a great weapon. So, spending the feats for minor improvements to AC is less good than spending them to get better feats. Meanwhile the level 4 human Fighter with plate armor, will have the same AC 18 ... PLUS two powerful combat feats. The plate armor is superior when considering feats.
The Plate Fighter suffers from Stealth disadvantage. However, the Mage Fighter is mediocre at Stealth if dumping Dexterity in order to invest in Intelligence and Constitution.
The Shield spell is moot, because an Eldritch Knight who wears plate armor can also cast Shield.
Being the target of a Heat Metal spell is situational. Also situational is the fact that Mage Armor would fail to function in an Antimagic Field, whereas the plate armor would persist. The Mage Armor Fighter would be exceptionally vulnerable.
All in all, the Mage Armor is either equal or significantly less good than plate.
Again, swapping Mage Armor for Heavy Armor is a wash. There is no benefit to AC.
Encumbrance and stealth. That AC in regular armor starts with a chain shirt, a not inconsiderable 20#. Moreover ability modifiers on mage armor easily put it into the turf where non Dex fighters are going to have disadvantage to stealth checks.
Just armor of shadows through variant or custom lineage, and play it RAW. When (and _if_) the player opts for Eldritch of Psi Knight, there will be things to do with that big brain's INT mods.
Arguing a fighting style is acceptably balanced by carving out other class features, in this case proficiencies, railroads the player's option more than a first level class should be in my opinion. You're also doing surgery where you're augmenting on one end by amputating something else. Nothing personal, but this seems only thought out in one aspect of the game you're identifying as problematic without taking into account the concerns being raised. The "but Warlocks" defense is kit bashing or frankensteining, not sound design.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
He’s really not. At higher levels the Dex-based fighter can’t match the AC, at low levels the heavy armor fighter can’t afford to match the AC and has to get his Str to 15, which (assuming stats arrays in a normal spectrum) means sacrificing abilities elsewhere. It’s not a wash.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
This is a discussion about D&D mechanics. Anyone who tried to make this personal or ad-hominem would be violating the code of conduct.
Which no one has done yet. I was just making it clear that we're against your fighting style's balance, not against you.
The earliest the Mage Fighter can get Int 20 is a level 4 human, after spending TWO feats to boost Int for only modest improvement to AC. For a Fighter, it is normally better to use the feat to enhance combat, such as for a great weapon. So, spending the feats for minor improvements to AC is less good than spending them to get better feats. Meanwhile the level 4 human Fighter with plate armor, will have the same AC 18 ... PLUS two powerful combat feats. The plate armor is superior when considering feats.
Maximizing out the ability that determines your AC, spell save DC and attack bonus, and attack and damage rolls for your weapons at level 4 is really, really good. No one else gets to do that. It is better is some cases to take GWM or PAM, but not in this one. This makes your Intelligence modifier so useful that it is worth those feats.
Also, never in my many years of DMing have I seen or given a player plate armor by level 4. If you do, then that's specific to your games, but that doesn't make it balanced for the game in general. As others and I have pointed out, the stealth, encumbrance, and speed issues of Plate Armor are completely negated by this, making this feature way better than Plate Armor.
The Plate Fighter suffers from Stealth disadvantage. However, the Mage Fighter is mediocre at Stealth if dumping Dexterity in order to invest in Intelligence and Constitution.
The fighter would still probably have at least a +1 to Dex for Initiative and stealth. They could even take proficiency in it and get a way higher bonus to stealth than the plate armored fighter ever will.
The Shield spell is moot, because an Eldritch Knight who wears plate armor can also cast Shield.
It's not moot, because this takes no resources, while plate armor is expensive and this grants more benefits than plate armor and shield does.
Being the target of a Heat Metal spell is situational. Also situational is the fact that Mage Armor would fail to function in an Antimagic Field, whereas the plate armor would persist. The Mage Armor Fighter would be exceptionally vulnerable.
Heat Metal will normally be far more common than Antimagic Field, as one is a 2nd level spell and the other is a level 8 spell. It is only "exceptionally vulnerable" in the sense that they lose 3 points to their AC, while a simple second level spell on the plate armored fighter gives way more disadvantages than Antimagic Field ever will on the Eldritch Knight.
All in all, the Mage Armor is either equal or significantly less good than plate.
No, it's at the very least slightly better than Plate Armor, and can be way better.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Again, swapping Mage Armor for Heavy Armor is a wash. There is no benefit to AC.
Encumbrance and stealth. That AC in regular armor starts with a chain shirt, a not inconsiderable 20#.
Encumbrance may or may not matter depending on DM style. For DMs who love resource management minutia, the Eldritch Knight in plate armor would still have other workarounds for encumbrance, including the Floating Disk spell, a horse, a companion, even magic items like a Portable Hole or a Handy Haversack.
He’s really not. At higher levels the Dex-based fighter can’t match the AC, at low levels the heavy armor fighter can’t afford to match the AC and has to get his Str to 15, which (assuming stats arrays in a normal spectrum) means sacrificing abilities elsewhere. It’s not a wash.
He’s really not. At higher levels the Dex-based fighter can’t match the AC, at low levels the heavy armor fighter can’t afford to match the AC and has to get his Str to 15, which (assuming stats arrays in a normal spectrum) means sacrificing abilities elsewhere. It’s not a wash.
Not sure what you mean.
Level 1 human Mage-Armor Eldritch Knight (or Psi Warrior) has AC 17, after burning a feat to improve Intelligence for a modest +1 AC bonus. At level 4, the human then maxes out with an Int score 20, with a total AC 18. And that is it. It the Mage Armor cannot improve beyond that 18.
Oppositely, in most campaigns the plate armor Eldritch Knight will find magic plate armor, whose magical enhancement to AC might be +1, +2, or even +3 higher AC than the Mage Armor could achieve. Meanwhile, the armor might have additional magical features beyond the superior AC.
So, at the highest levels, the plate armor is superior to the Mage Armor.
The Str Fighter can dump both Int and Cha hard − even at 8. Both Str and Con can be 16s at level 1. Dex can be dumped at 10. Maybe, just maybe, Wis might be good for the Will save, while Perception is nice. The Strength Fighter is mainly Two-Ability-Dependent. Meanwhile either Dex or Wis can be a nice tertiary.
The Dex Fighter gets studded leather totaling 17, which is one less that plat or the max possible for Mage Armor. But investing in Dex comes with many other benefits that are useful for a Fighter. Meanwhile, by the time Dex reaches 20 at level 4 human, the Dex Fighter is likely to acquire magic studded leather.
The Dex Fighter is also Two-Ability-Dependent, Dex and Con. Meanwhile Wis is an attractive tertiary.
Again, swapping Mage Armor for Heavy Armor is a wash. There is no benefit to AC.
Encumbrance and stealth. That AC in regular armor starts with a chain shirt, a not inconsiderable 20#.
Encumbrance may or may not matter depending on DM style. For DMs who love resource management minutia, the Eldritch Knight in plate armor would still have other workarounds for encumbrance, including the Floating Disk spell, a horse, a companion, even magic items like a Portable Hole or a Handy Haversack.
For your balance you're now speculating Eldritch or Psi Knights dedicating magic resources first level builds generally don't have to claim "balance" for your Mage Armor fighting style. Your defense is inadequate because you're using a different scale of power and resources to defend a first level build.
Moreover, it's inadequate in defense of critique, because you only contend with encumbrance. I wrote encumbrance and stealth. I don't see you coming out of this discussion other than your conviction, which is fine to run with at your table, but from a good cross section of players (who agree to disagree on a bunch of other stuff) practically everyone has come at this as overpowered.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The armor swap part is not the only part of the Fighting style you're proposing. ... AND you get a ton of other stuff. Use this if you really want but it's going to be OP.
The Mage Armor itself is a wash.
So the rest of the Fighting Style needs to be on par with the other Fighting Styles. The other Fighting Styles include some that are better than others. But the Fighting Style needs to be in the ballpark of them.
Monks depend on Dex, Wis, and Con. Paladins depend on Str/Dex, Con, and Cha. Rangers depend on Str/Dex, Con, and Wis. Eldritch Knights need Dex/Str, Con, and Int.
It's a balancing factor. Combining the high hit dice of fighters, paladins, and rangers with magical power, it is a matter of balance that they depend on multiple ability scores.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Monks depend on Dex, Wis, and Con. Paladins depend on Str/Dex, Con, and Cha. Rangers depend on Str/Dex, Con, and Wis. Eldritch Knights need Dex/Str, Con, and Int.
It's a balancing factor. Combining the high hit dice of fighters, paladins, and rangers with magical power, it is a matter of balance that they depend on multiple ability scores.
M-A-D isnt a balance factor. Sometimes it is tradition. Sometimes it is unintended consequences.
For example, nobody thinks the Ranger needs to be balance by M-A-D.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
he / him
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I got to say, there is a consensus against this idea from a wide range of proposals and it's becoming clear you're just refusing to recognize it. You say it is "balanced" and every poster as far as I know on this thread has said "no it's not." Everyone's arguments seem pretty cogent, insightful and definitely rules based. Mage Armor at will as a "fighting style" is just imbalanced compared to the other fighting styles available in the fighter class feature. The elven and Gith examples you use, both those races have just enough magic in their racial features to allow for a build where the assumption of Eldritch or Psi Knight makes sense.
Lastly, you can get what you want if you leave fighting styles alone, build variant humans or custom legacy (to stick with your "raised to be one of these Jedi" from birth flavor claim) and take Eldritch Adept as a feat and get your mage armor. If the rules allow you to do what you want without getting under the hood of the class, follow the rules.
If you're not really considering the arguments against your idea, you're just pushing back in bad faith hoping someone will show up to this thread to agree with you.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Lets look at the feature swaps.
• The Fighter loses access to Medium and Heavy armor.
• The Fighter gains Mage Armor and when using it can substitute Intelligence for the AC bonus instead of Dexterity.
At level 1, the Heavy-Armor Fighter is guaranteed by the Players Handbook Fighter equipment to have chainmail armor. AC 16. (A shield may or may not be on top of this.)
At level 1, the Mage-Armor Fighter is guaranteed Mage Armor. AC 13. With Intelligence 16, this becomes AC 16. (A shield may or may not be on top of this.)
The AC is exactly the same at level 1! There is no benefit to AC by choosing Mage Armor for ones flavor of armor.
Meanwhile, the Heavy-Armor Fighter will get plate armor as soon as possible. AC 18. Thus have an AC that is superior to the Mage Armor.
The feature swaps are a wash! There is no benefit to AC.
he / him
It’s not “Mage Armor”. It’s Mage Armor at will (which the Warlock gets at lvl 2, not 1) and based on a different stat (which can be an advantage for classes that prefer that stat over Dex).
You say you want to avoid the abuse of Dexterity, but you’re a) not preventing anyone from assigning a relatively high Dex regardless and b) opening up Intelligence for abuse (characters who had to choose between their melee stat and their spellcasting stat now get to have their cake and eat it). Eldritch Knights can be perfectly competent with a good-but-not-great Int stat. You’re attempting to fix something that isn’t broken in the first place.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
They can have a high Dex if they want, but it wont stack with Int. Thus it would be M-A-D.
he / him
Again, swapping Mage Armor for Heavy Armor is a wash. There is no benefit to AC.
he / him
Here, lets prove that it is unbalanced.
Okay, you have Mage Armor at will, and add your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class. If you have an Intelligence modifier of 20 (which you can get very quickly due to fighters having more ASIs than other classes), your base AC will be 18. That's the same as Plate Armor, not giving any of the disadvantages that plate armor gives (disadvantage on stealth, reduction to speed if your Strength is too low, being targetable with the heat metal spell, etc). Then, you can have a Shield, granting you an AC of 20, or a Double-Bladed Scimitar with Revenant Blade or Two-Weapon Fighting and Dual Wielder to get a 19 for AC. Then, if you are an Eldritch Knight you will probably have shield, allowing you to increase your AC to 23 (with no shield or AC increasing weapon), 24 (with Revenant Blade or Dual Wielder), or 25 (with a shield).
Having that high of an AC with only using one Ability Score for both your attack to hit and your armor class is unbalanced, no matter how you cut it or try to justify it. It's unbalanced and would take Intelligence from one of the worst ability scores in the game to literally the best one, requiring only one level of multiclass dipping to take.
We're not attacking you, and you don't need to defend your homebrew fighting style like your honor depends on it, but we just want to point out the balance issues with this fighting style.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Except your first fighter had to assign his best stat to Dex and thus a lower one to Int, reducing his casting ability. The heavy armor fighter has to add Str to the mix. The mage armor fighter can match the heavy armor fighter’s AC, the regular fighter can’t (med armour AC, without shield, tops at 17). Armour adds to encumbrance and some of them impose Disadvantage on Stealth. Armour has to be donned and doffed, which takes a non-trivial amount of time. It’s not a wash.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The armor swap part is not the only part of the Fighting style you're proposing. You're sorta correct that it's a wash except it makes you single attribute dependent. AND you get a ton of other stuff. Use this if you really want but it's going to be OP.
(edited to save space)
There is no benefit to AC, but that doesn't make it not overpowered. It lets you be an Intelligence-based Hexblade with a Battle Smith's Battle Ready on every attack you do, as well as a way better version of the High Elf's Cantrip feature and an Armor of Shadows combined with part of Bladesong. The AC will be as good as a heavy armor using Fighter's, its attack bonus will be as good as a Battle Smith's with magic weapons, and it gets any cantrip from any list of their choice. Additionally, you get absolutely none of the disadvantages of heavy armor, while getting all of its benefits, and more.
All of that at level one? Just taking a fighting style? That's way, way, way too much. It's ridiculously OP. It doesn't matter if you give up your Medium and Heavy Armor proficiency, they were doing nothing for you anyway. Eldritch Knights are okay already (not great, and they don't fit the role of a swordmage/duskblade, but this doesn't fix that anyway), this just blows them above basically every other arcane gishing class/subclass in the game. They didn't need that. Psychic Warriors don't need this.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
This is a discussion about D&D mechanics. Anyone who tried to make this personal or ad-hominem would be violating the code of conduct.
The earliest the Mage Fighter can get Int 20 is a level 4 human, after spending TWO feats to boost Int for only modest improvement to AC. For a Fighter, it is normally better to use the feat to enhance combat, such as for a great weapon. So, spending the feats for minor improvements to AC is less good than spending them to get better feats. Meanwhile the level 4 human Fighter with plate armor, will have the same AC 18 ... PLUS two powerful combat feats. The plate armor is superior when considering feats.
The Plate Fighter suffers from Stealth disadvantage. However, the Mage Fighter is mediocre at Stealth if dumping Dexterity in order to invest in Intelligence and Constitution.
The Shield spell is moot, because an Eldritch Knight who wears plate armor can also cast Shield.
Being the target of a Heat Metal spell is situational. Also situational is the fact that Mage Armor would fail to function in an Antimagic Field, whereas the plate armor would persist. The Mage Armor Fighter would be exceptionally vulnerable.
All in all, the Mage Armor is either equal or significantly less good than plate.
he / him
Encumbrance and stealth. That AC in regular armor starts with a chain shirt, a not inconsiderable 20#. Moreover ability modifiers on mage armor easily put it into the turf where non Dex fighters are going to have disadvantage to stealth checks.
Just armor of shadows through variant or custom lineage, and play it RAW. When (and _if_) the player opts for Eldritch of Psi Knight, there will be things to do with that big brain's INT mods.
Arguing a fighting style is acceptably balanced by carving out other class features, in this case proficiencies, railroads the player's option more than a first level class should be in my opinion. You're also doing surgery where you're augmenting on one end by amputating something else. Nothing personal, but this seems only thought out in one aspect of the game you're identifying as problematic without taking into account the concerns being raised. The "but Warlocks" defense is kit bashing or frankensteining, not sound design.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
He’s really not. At higher levels the Dex-based fighter can’t match the AC, at low levels the heavy armor fighter can’t afford to match the AC and has to get his Str to 15, which (assuming stats arrays in a normal spectrum) means sacrificing abilities elsewhere. It’s not a wash.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Which no one has done yet. I was just making it clear that we're against your fighting style's balance, not against you.
Maximizing out the ability that determines your AC, spell save DC and attack bonus, and attack and damage rolls for your weapons at level 4 is really, really good. No one else gets to do that. It is better is some cases to take GWM or PAM, but not in this one. This makes your Intelligence modifier so useful that it is worth those feats.
Also, never in my many years of DMing have I seen or given a player plate armor by level 4. If you do, then that's specific to your games, but that doesn't make it balanced for the game in general. As others and I have pointed out, the stealth, encumbrance, and speed issues of Plate Armor are completely negated by this, making this feature way better than Plate Armor.
The fighter would still probably have at least a +1 to Dex for Initiative and stealth. They could even take proficiency in it and get a way higher bonus to stealth than the plate armored fighter ever will.
It's not moot, because this takes no resources, while plate armor is expensive and this grants more benefits than plate armor and shield does.
Heat Metal will normally be far more common than Antimagic Field, as one is a 2nd level spell and the other is a level 8 spell. It is only "exceptionally vulnerable" in the sense that they lose 3 points to their AC, while a simple second level spell on the plate armored fighter gives way more disadvantages than Antimagic Field ever will on the Eldritch Knight.
No, it's at the very least slightly better than Plate Armor, and can be way better.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Encumbrance may or may not matter depending on DM style. For DMs who love resource management minutia, the Eldritch Knight in plate armor would still have other workarounds for encumbrance, including the Floating Disk spell, a horse, a companion, even magic items like a Portable Hole or a Handy Haversack.
he / him
Not sure what you mean.
Level 1 human Mage-Armor Eldritch Knight (or Psi Warrior) has AC 17, after burning a feat to improve Intelligence for a modest +1 AC bonus. At level 4, the human then maxes out with an Int score 20, with a total AC 18. And that is it. It the Mage Armor cannot improve beyond that 18.
Oppositely, in most campaigns the plate armor Eldritch Knight will find magic plate armor, whose magical enhancement to AC might be +1, +2, or even +3 higher AC than the Mage Armor could achieve. Meanwhile, the armor might have additional magical features beyond the superior AC.
So, at the highest levels, the plate armor is superior to the Mage Armor.
The Str Fighter can dump both Int and Cha hard − even at 8. Both Str and Con can be 16s at level 1. Dex can be dumped at 10. Maybe, just maybe, Wis might be good for the Will save, while Perception is nice. The Strength Fighter is mainly Two-Ability-Dependent. Meanwhile either Dex or Wis can be a nice tertiary.
The Dex Fighter gets studded leather totaling 17, which is one less that plat or the max possible for Mage Armor. But investing in Dex comes with many other benefits that are useful for a Fighter. Meanwhile, by the time Dex reaches 20 at level 4 human, the Dex Fighter is likely to acquire magic studded leather.
The Dex Fighter is also Two-Ability-Dependent, Dex and Con. Meanwhile Wis is an attractive tertiary.
he / him
For your balance you're now speculating Eldritch or Psi Knights dedicating magic resources first level builds generally don't have to claim "balance" for your Mage Armor fighting style. Your defense is inadequate because you're using a different scale of power and resources to defend a first level build.
Moreover, it's inadequate in defense of critique, because you only contend with encumbrance. I wrote encumbrance and stealth. I don't see you coming out of this discussion other than your conviction, which is fine to run with at your table, but from a good cross section of players (who agree to disagree on a bunch of other stuff) practically everyone has come at this as overpowered.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Yeah. The choice between Plate Armor and Mage Armor is mostly flavor.
The Mage Armor itself is a wash.
So the rest of the Fighting Style needs to be on par with the other Fighting Styles. The other Fighting Styles include some that are better than others. But the Fighting Style needs to be in the ballpark of them.
he / him
Two-Ability-Dependent.
The Str Fighter depends on Strength and Constitution.
The Dex Fighter depends on Dexterity and Constituion.
The Mage Armor Fighter depends on Intelligence and Constitution.
Note that Dexterity and Constitution are the two most frequent saves in the game.
When the Mage Armor Fighter dumps Dexterity, it hurts because of the reflex save.
he / him
Monks depend on Dex, Wis, and Con. Paladins depend on Str/Dex, Con, and Cha. Rangers depend on Str/Dex, Con, and Wis. Eldritch Knights need Dex/Str, Con, and Int.
It's a balancing factor. Combining the high hit dice of fighters, paladins, and rangers with magical power, it is a matter of balance that they depend on multiple ability scores.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
M-A-D isnt a balance factor. Sometimes it is tradition. Sometimes it is unintended consequences.
For example, nobody thinks the Ranger needs to be balance by M-A-D.
he / him