The OPs original question was pertaining to casting spells from various positions in relation to the hut. This is not a discussion about material sciences, high energy physics nor the philosophy of what is water? Please keep things on topic and relevant. Thank you
This is indeed a bizarre discussion. All matter has 3 (keep it to 3 for simplicity's sake) states: Solid, Liquid, Gas.
So, by some in this thread, a rock would be considered an 'object' and would bounce off the hut. But apply heat to that rock until it becomes a liquid (lava), and since it can't hold a shape anymore, it is no longer an 'object' and suddenly it CAN go through the hut? It is made of the same STUFF, but in a different state because the electrons in one are moving around faster than in the other.
Again, you are assuming that there are electrons and that heating works in a fantasy game as in the real world, but let's work on that basis. The problem is that once you have melted something, it is no longer one object. It can be as many as you want, because it's liquid and you can scoop parts of it. Do they become objects ? Again not, they're just that, a certain amount of liquid.
No, they're not. They are pointing out that your arguments regarding real world physics doesn't hold water. I'm going to guess that you agree that a stick is an object (please explain why, otherwise) and I can break that stick apart. Does that stick stop being a stick then or does it turn in to two sticks?
So if a liquid isn't an object or a material... what DO you call it? What noun in the english language is it assigned to?
Why must there be a word ? It's just a certain amount of liquid or gas. It's not one object, its malleable. This is why some definitions assume that an object is at least a thing without too much mutation capabilities.
Wait, so objects can't be malleable now? Pure gold is quite soft and can be shaped by hand, if you are strong enough. Are you saying that a gold ring made of pure gold isn't an object because it is malleable? A certain amount of liquid is an object. For example, a drop of water. Same goes for gas. A mouthful of gas is exactly that.
Lightning is not a process. It's matter in a state... specifically AIR (a gas) that is Ionized and HOT.
No, that is just the form that lightning takes when scorching through air. But lightning is a phenomenon that can appear in any medium that can be ionised, it's not the medium itself.
And guess what, that form is still material and can be detected by senses and so on, just like your definition of an object.
Again, your description of real world physics is just plain wrong.
EDIT: Sorry Davedamon, you posted your message while I was writing mine.
Again, you are assuming that there are electrons and that heating works in a fantasy game as in the real world, but let's work on that basis. The problem is that once you have melted something, it is no longer one object. It can be as many as you want, because it's liquid and you can scoop parts of it. Do they become objects ? Again not, they're just that, a certain amount of liquid.
The language we use to define the rules 5e D&D is based on the real world. When we are discussing what is an object or what is a material, we have to use our real world knowledge of these things. Or else you would need to create a massive dictionary defining what comes from the plane of air, the plane of fire, the plane of water, and so on to be able to interpret what an object or a material is in the fantasy world. And there is no such thing. Therefore, real world definitions apply.
There are no laws in our world or the fantasy world that says a blob of lava is an object or material in our world but not in a fantasy world.
You are making up imaginary rules to say water or air are not objects, or made of material. You can't even give us a WORD that defines what they are, in the real world or in the imaginary world. Which throws me for a loop... How can anyone argue with someone else that doesn't acknowledge that things exist?
There are no laws in our world or the fantasy world that says a blob of lava is an object or material in our world but not in a fantasy world.
You are making up imaginary rules to say water or air are not objects, or made of material. You can't even give us a WORD that defines what they are, in the real world or in the imaginary world. Which throws me for a loop... How can anyone argue with someone else that doesn't acknowledge that things exist?
How would you rule Fairie Fire? Is it just a glowing 20ft cube? Since each "object" is lit up, and since air is an "object", I'm assuming the ruling would be that every atom and piece of dust is lit up in range. There are plenty of other spells with "object" in the spell description that become problematic when the definition of object is taken to the extremes as well. (Btw, I'm not arguing or insinuating anything about the real-world definition of "object"... just pointing out that rulings on what counts as an object need to be able to apply to all uses of it across the 5e system)
OK regardless of whether you think gas and liquids count as objects...
How badly will it mess with your campaign to have the tiny hut impregnable to such things? Including dragon breath and whatever.
How betrayed will your players feel when the volley of flaming oil flasks shatters on the hut but the flaming oil pours through? How will they feel when they cast the spell in the desert but the sand and dust from a dust storm comes in anyway? They cast the spell in a swamp and it does basically nothing except keep the mosquitoes out and let the poison swamp gas and mud in?
I have to return the question to you, how badly would it mess your campaign that a 3rd level spell does not provide an impregnable bastion, allowing such shenanigans as what the OP suggested ? Because for me, this is the major problem here.
For me the major problem isn’t the impregnability. It’ll poof out of existence at some point, enemies can prep for that. Being holed up isn’t super great if you can’t really do anything to fix the problems outside. Hence, I don’t allow concentration spells to continue to function through the dome. That makes it appropriate for a 3rd level spell, in my book anyway.
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There are no laws in our world or the fantasy world that says a blob of lava is an object or material in our world but not in a fantasy world.
You were asking about laws and implying that they were the same, which I proved not to be the case, that's all.
You are making up imaginary rules to say water or air are not objects, or made of material.
Please don't strawman, but, once more, are you going to argue that air and water ar objects ? Would you really, in your game, allow a player to cast "Animate Object" on air ?
Because that is the consequence of what you are implying. For me, air, water, are not objects, never have been.
You can't even give us a WORD that defines what they are, in the real world or in the imaginary world.
Air is a gas, water is a liquid, what other word do you want ? As such, they are not object, and not targetable by spells which target objects. Allowing such a targeting would create very, very bizarre situations, as pointed out by Sigvard_Vigrid.
Which throws me for a loop... How can anyone argue with someone else that doesn't acknowledge that things exist?
Of course they exist, but why should I have to bundle them in a category such as "an object". The category of liquid or gas is fine enough for me.
Y'all realize the game provides a definition of object, yes? Page 246 of the DMG:
For the Purpose of these rules, an object is a discrete, inanimate item like a window, door, sword, book, table, chair, or stone, not a building or a vehicle that is composed of many other objects.
Now, this may not meet someone's need for a detailed, precise scientific definition, but it generally suffices for the game.
Poison gas is NOT an object by these rules, I'd say. Neither is fire. And so on.
I've been thinking a lot about this spell. And I tend to think it's overpowered and prone to over-use/abuse by players. It seems like one or more things would provide easy fixes:
Take the ritual tag off. This means it will cost a spell slot to cast it, which should take care of most over-use of the spell.
Do not let objects pass OUT through the Hut. In other words, don't allow the Hut to be a nigh-unassailable redoubt for the characters. Objects can't pass into the hut, neither can they pass out through it.
Allow magical effects (not spells, effects) to pass through and/or provide an upper limit of spells the Hut will stop (3rd, 4th, whatever seems right).
The Hut does NOT prevent entrance from the Astral, Ethereal, or other planes.
Even just using one or two of these things help restore some balance while still allowing the Hut to provide a respite from the vast majority of threats the characters might face when needing a long rest.
There is no floor to the Hut, just the dome. So burrowing creatures can pop right up and nomnomnom. And don’t forget that stuff like Dragons’ breath weapons are “nonmagical,” and so pass right through the Hut’s dome. It really isn’t as impervious as people like to think it is.
There is no floor to the Hut, just the dome. So burrowing creatures can pop right up and nomnomnom. And don’t forget that stuff like Dragons’ breath weapons are “nonmagical,” and so pass right through the Hut’s dome. It really isn’t as impervious as people like to think it is.
Per Jeremy Crawford and Sage Advice, the Hut does indeed have a floor. Multiple threads here provide the links.
There is no floor to the Hut, just the dome. So burrowing creatures can pop right up and nomnomnom. And don’t forget that stuff like Dragons’ breath weapons are “nonmagical,” and so pass right through the Hut’s dome. It really isn’t as impervious as people like to think it is.
Per Jeremy Crawford and Sage Advice, the Hut does indeed have a floor. Multiple threads here provide the links.
Considering how often I categorically disagree with SA…. It says “a dome”, not “a hemisphere.”
There is no floor to the Hut, just the dome. So burrowing creatures can pop right up and nomnomnom. And don’t forget that stuff like Dragons’ breath weapons are “nonmagical,” and so pass right through the Hut’s dome. It really isn’t as impervious as people like to think it is.
Per Jeremy Crawford and Sage Advice, the Hut does indeed have a floor. Multiple threads here provide the links.
Considering how often I categorically disagree with SA…. It says “a dome”, not “a hemisphere.”
But the Range/Area says sphere. Maybe it says dome because it's presumed that the character is standing on the ground so would only perceive the dome above them but the field is a sphere that goes underground?
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There is no floor to the Hut, just the dome. So burrowing creatures can pop right up and nomnomnom. And don’t forget that stuff like Dragons’ breath weapons are “nonmagical,” and so pass right through the Hut’s dome. It really isn’t as impervious as people like to think it is.
Per Jeremy Crawford and Sage Advice, the Hut does indeed have a floor. Multiple threads here provide the links.
Considering how often I categorically disagree with SA…. It says “a dome”, not “a hemisphere.”
But the Range/Area says sphere. Maybe it says dome because it's presumed that the character is standing on the ground so would only perceive the dome above them but the field is a sphere that goes underground?
Remember that you cannot trust D&D Beyond to accurately represent the official text. Read the PHB:
Dry and comfortable could be a secondary effect. So if you make it on a glacier, the effect could change the snow to comfortable and dry. magic is funny. no floor needed. it could also work like a temporary stasis. You touch the cold thing but while there the cold will not transfer.
Thank you Saga, I stand corrected. (I don’t actually have a physical PHB though.)
You don't actually need the physical copy, the spell is accurately reflected on DnDbeyond.
However, very hidden. All shortcuts and quick links have the abbreviated listing, but if you go to 'sources' and scroll down in the spell descriptions, it is listed correctly:
A 10-foot-radius immobile dome of force springs into existence around and above you and remains stationary for the duration. The spell ends if you leave its area.
Nine creatures of Medium size or smaller can fit inside the dome with you. The spell fails if its area includes a larger creature or more than nine creatures. Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely. All other creatures and objects are barred from passing through it. Spells and other magical effects can’t extend through the dome or be cast through it. The atmosphere inside the space is comfortable and dry, regardless of the weather outside.
Until the spell ends, you can command the interior to become dimly lit or dark. The dome is opaque from the outside, of any color you choose, but it is transparent from the inside.
How you can be dry and comfortable without a floor if you make your tiny hut on a glacier? Or during a rainstorm?
I understand the semantic arguments about hemisphere vs dome but the spell can't work without a floor.
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In any case, while it hasn't come up yet, I would probably just revert to a 3e Tiny Hut (which is only effective against weather) if someone decided they wanted to take the spell. As a wizard ritual spell (doesn't cost spell slots or count against memorized spells, just a bit of money) that's perfectly good.
The OPs original question was pertaining to casting spells from various positions in relation to the hut. This is not a discussion about material sciences, high energy physics nor the philosophy of what is water? Please keep things on topic and relevant. Thank you
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You're moving the goalpost sooo far now.
No, they're not. They are pointing out that your arguments regarding real world physics doesn't hold water. I'm going to guess that you agree that a stick is an object (please explain why, otherwise) and I can break that stick apart. Does that stick stop being a stick then or does it turn in to two sticks?
Wait, so objects can't be malleable now? Pure gold is quite soft and can be shaped by hand, if you are strong enough. Are you saying that a gold ring made of pure gold isn't an object because it is malleable? A certain amount of liquid is an object. For example, a drop of water. Same goes for gas. A mouthful of gas is exactly that.
And guess what, that form is still material and can be detected by senses and so on, just like your definition of an object.
Again, your description of real world physics is just plain wrong.
The language we use to define the rules 5e D&D is based on the real world. When we are discussing what is an object or what is a material, we have to use our real world knowledge of these things. Or else you would need to create a massive dictionary defining what comes from the plane of air, the plane of fire, the plane of water, and so on to be able to interpret what an object or a material is in the fantasy world. And there is no such thing. Therefore, real world definitions apply.
There are no laws in our world or the fantasy world that says a blob of lava is an object or material in our world but not in a fantasy world.
You are making up imaginary rules to say water or air are not objects, or made of material. You can't even give us a WORD that defines what they are, in the real world or in the imaginary world. Which throws me for a loop... How can anyone argue with someone else that doesn't acknowledge that things exist?
How would you rule Fairie Fire? Is it just a glowing 20ft cube? Since each "object" is lit up, and since air is an "object", I'm assuming the ruling would be that every atom and piece of dust is lit up in range. There are plenty of other spells with "object" in the spell description that become problematic when the definition of object is taken to the extremes as well. (Btw, I'm not arguing or insinuating anything about the real-world definition of "object"... just pointing out that rulings on what counts as an object need to be able to apply to all uses of it across the 5e system)
OK regardless of whether you think gas and liquids count as objects...
How badly will it mess with your campaign to have the tiny hut impregnable to such things? Including dragon breath and whatever.
How betrayed will your players feel when the volley of flaming oil flasks shatters on the hut but the flaming oil pours through? How will they feel when they cast the spell in the desert but the sand and dust from a dust storm comes in anyway? They cast the spell in a swamp and it does basically nothing except keep the mosquitoes out and let the poison swamp gas and mud in?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
For me the major problem isn’t the impregnability. It’ll poof out of existence at some point, enemies can prep for that. Being holed up isn’t super great if you can’t really do anything to fix the problems outside. Hence, I don’t allow concentration spells to continue to function through the dome. That makes it appropriate for a 3rd level spell, in my book anyway.
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Just going to put this out there. Once again showing that what you say doesn't correspend with reality or science:
https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Liquids/Liquid_objects
Y'all realize the game provides a definition of object, yes? Page 246 of the DMG:
Now, this may not meet someone's need for a detailed, precise scientific definition, but it generally suffices for the game.
Poison gas is NOT an object by these rules, I'd say. Neither is fire. And so on.
I've been thinking a lot about this spell. And I tend to think it's overpowered and prone to over-use/abuse by players. It seems like one or more things would provide easy fixes:
Even just using one or two of these things help restore some balance while still allowing the Hut to provide a respite from the vast majority of threats the characters might face when needing a long rest.
There is no floor to the Hut, just the dome. So burrowing creatures can pop right up and nomnomnom. And don’t forget that stuff like Dragons’ breath weapons are “nonmagical,” and so pass right through the Hut’s dome. It really isn’t as impervious as people like to think it is.
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Per Jeremy Crawford and Sage Advice, the Hut does indeed have a floor. Multiple threads here provide the links.
Considering how often I categorically disagree with SA…. It says “a dome”, not “a hemisphere.”
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But the Range/Area says sphere. Maybe it says dome because it's presumed that the character is standing on the ground so would only perceive the dome above them but the field is a sphere that goes underground?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Remember that you cannot trust D&D Beyond to accurately represent the official text. Read the PHB:
How you can be dry and comfortable without a floor if you make your tiny hut on a glacier? Or during a rainstorm?
I understand the semantic arguments about hemisphere vs dome but the spell can't work without a floor.
Dry and comfortable could be a secondary effect. So if you make it on a glacier, the effect could change the snow to comfortable and dry. magic is funny. no floor needed. it could also work like a temporary stasis. You touch the cold thing but while there the cold will not transfer.
Thank you Saga, I stand corrected. (I don’t actually have a physical PHB though.)
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You don't actually need the physical copy, the spell is accurately reflected on DnDbeyond.
However, very hidden. All shortcuts and quick links have the abbreviated listing, but if you go to 'sources' and scroll down in the spell descriptions, it is listed correctly:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spells#SpellDescriptions
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Because Magic. 🤷♂️ Because the description says so? 🤷♂️ It’s a game with floating insane meatballs with eyestalks in which characters can shoot lightning from their codpieces.
Disbelief Suspension: Engaged. All cylinders running hot, loose, and clean.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
In any case, while it hasn't come up yet, I would probably just revert to a 3e Tiny Hut (which is only effective against weather) if someone decided they wanted to take the spell. As a wizard ritual spell (doesn't cost spell slots or count against memorized spells, just a bit of money) that's perfectly good.