I personally think the more variation the better. each player likes there character to be unique so the more options the better. i do understand people wanting to keep it old skl though :)
Hmm, on Topic, I'd like a Nightblade, or Ninja subclass for Rogue. For me a Nightblade is a Rogue who uses weapons and magic to kill. When I first thought of trying to play a Nightblade in D&D I looked at Arcane Trickster, but the AT's spells are mostly Enchanting/Illusion, then Phantom and Soulknife came out and while I'd love to play a Soulknife, it's still not a Nightblade. If I wanted to play a Nightblade the way I imagine it, I would have to go for Gloomstalker Ranger, but a Ranger isn't a Rogue.
Another thing I'd like, would be class/subclass specific Feats. As example I'm gonna use the Dragonic Bloodline Sorcerer. There are 10 Dragons you can choose from, yet the class progression is the same for all of them, so I'd find it cool, if you could get different Feats, depending on what type of Dragon you chose. I looked at all the Adult Dragons to see what kind of traits/skills they had and thought of something like: Black, Bronze, Gold, and Green could get Amphibious to let them breath on land and under water. White could get Ice Walk
Not sure what to give to Blue, Brass, Copper, Red or Silver, as they didn't have any specific traits on their stat block aside from their Legendary Resistance.
I think a Ninja subclass would be a good addition. Assassin Rogue doesn't quite do the job and Way of Shadows Monk lacks the rogue's skills so the only way to really get that Ninja/Shinobi feel is to multiclass Rogue/Monk and since you have to go deep into both classes you have to wait a few levels to even start to get the character you want to play.
I don't know if it should be a Rogue subclass or a Monk subclass. I do heavily lean towards Monk subclass that gives an ability to use Ki to make a Sneak Attack though.
Ninjas are an odd duck, mostly because people expect them to do more than most folks would feel comfortable with a single PC doing. Like you said, Golaryn - people want a 'Ninja' to have the Rogue's deadly Sneak Attack, enhanced skill base, Expertise training, and slipperiness, but also all of the Monk's ki abilities, unarmored defenses, incredible speed, and everything else. A fantasy ninja, the way people want to play them, is a gestalt class, not a multiclass or subclass.
One possible recommendation, as a homebrew rule for people who want that Ninja Assassination feel from a Way of Shadows monk (i.e. the closest you'll ever get to a "Ninja" subclass) is to allow the monk to combine all their attacks into a single strike. Rather than rolling two hits plus Flurry for two more, let the monk roll a single attack roll. On a hit, they deal all their damage. On a miss, they flub and lose all their damage. Charge them ki for it and let them roll an extra MA dice or two in exchange for losing three attacks' worth of Dexterity damage, jigger the balance as needed, but that would be my fix. Would let people get that Ninja Shank they're looking for, and with Skill Expert and some background jiggery one can have the Stealth expertise and Thieves' Tools proficiency one is looking for to make a ninja.
Elsewise a base rogue is good for 'fighty' ninjas that are more about the assassination and combat superiority than other ninjas, while Way of Shadows is good for 'sneaky' ninjas that are more concerned with never being detected and ensuring their infiltrations go unnoticed.
EDIT: Mayhaps something like this
Way of Shadows, Optional 5th-level Class Feature: 'Blade of Silent Sorrow' As an action, you can strike with supernatural sureness and destroy your foe's vital points. While wielding a dagger or shortsword, you can spend up to two ki points and make a single attack roll against a target creature as an action. On a hit you deal the attack's normal damage, plus additional damage equal to three rolls of your Martial Arts die for each ki point spent to make this action. You cannot make any other attacks on any turn where you use your Blade of Silent Sorrow.
Overall I think you are right. Pop Culture has had a major impact on what people expect from the Ninja, myself included. I would want it to do way too much.
As others have said, more elemental subclasses. Reprint Phoenix Sorcerer, WOTC! An Elementalist bard would be fun. Elemental Cleric is an interesting idea (though we already have Tempest, Forge, and Light)
Other ideas: a Rogue with Pact Magic. A Sea Cleric.
The tricky thing about Ninja is that a big variety of classes can feel very Ninja-y if you just flavor them that way.
Way of Shadows Monk is kind of the default example, because it's actively trying to be ninja-like in execution. Definitely more on the "mystical" side of Ninja.
If you want to be historically accurate ninja... well, Assassin has pretty much all of that, right down to unique abilities tied to creating false identities and seamlessly blending into normal society.
Thief could also be easily reflavored as a Ninja, with their ability to climb buildings stealthily and apply deadly poisons quickly and efficiently.
Even Gloomstalker Ranger makes for a great, stealthy ninja. The Ranger spell list has plenty of ninja-appropriate spells, and Gloomstalker especially with the Illusion-based spells granted by Gloom Stalker Magic.
I think the hard part is that there are just so many Ninja archetypes in so many different forms of media that there is no right or wrong way to play a ninja. I'd say, if there's an example of a Ninja in any property (film, show, comic, novel) that you feel can't be replicated with any of the existing classes, go ahead and describe it and maybe we can use that as a jumping off point to theorize what class and subclass would work best.
The tricky thing about Ninja is that a big variety of classes can feel very Ninja-y if you just flavor them that way.
Way of Shadows Monk is kind of the default example, because it's actively trying to be ninja-like in execution. Definitely more on the "mystical" side of Ninja.
If you want to be historically accurate ninja... well, Assassin has pretty much all of that, right down to unique abilities tied to creating false identities and seamlessly blending into normal society.
Thief could also be easily reflavored as a Ninja, with their ability to climb buildings stealthily and apply deadly poisons quickly and efficiently.
Even Gloomstalker Ranger makes for a great, stealthy ninja. The Ranger spell list has plenty of ninja-appropriate spells, and Gloomstalker especially with the Illusion-based spells granted by Gloom Stalker Magic.
I think the hard part is that there are just so many Ninja archetypes in so many different forms of media that there is no right or wrong way to play a ninja. I'd say, if there's an example of a Ninja in any property (film, show, comic, novel) that you feel can't be replicated with any of the existing classes, go ahead and describe it and maybe we can use that as a jumping off point to theorize what class and subclass would work best.
I have been thinking about it and I think that IF I were to play a Ninja character, I would go Monk with the Criminal/Spy background and take the Skill Expert Feat for Stealth and then go Kensai to make the most out of all the cool Ninja weapons. I don't really need the mystical stuff for my Ninja concept as most of the what I want comes with the base Monk abilities (speed, walk walking, running on water etc). I could also take Shadow Touched and Magic Initiate if I really need the mystical stuff later. The only thing I would be missing would be Sneak Attack, but I can live without it.
None of this is on topic. Others have already asked the people stick to the topic of the original post, now I will as well.
On the original topic, I would like to see more elemental subclasses. They made the Wildfire Druid, I would like something like that for Earth. Perhaps as a Monk Subclass.
I don't personally care one way or another about new races/lineages/species but if people want more, give them more.
Con based stuff would be cool, but sorcerer IMO should have con casting ability
I get the logic of CON-based Sorcerer, but my thoughts on it have been that CHA is more about force of will, which can be manipulated or twisted more elegantly to accomplish magic, whereas CON is more about just pure brute force.
I'm playing as a Storm Herald Barbarian in my current campaign, and the subclass has a very limited magical output (he can shoot lightning as a bonus action every round, plus a few other tricks), and the Save for those attacks is based on his CON, since it's basically just a question of how much sheer chutzpah he's able to put behind each bolt of lightning.
That said, I think it would be interesting to have a more dedicated half-caster that uses CON as their spellcasting stat, but with a much more limited spell list. I'd imagine it would be mostly evocation spells, but I'd also include spells like shield or fly. I'm starting to think of it as a Monk subclass, going for a kind of Dragonball feel. Something not quite as elegant as a 4 Elements monk, but someone who can just tap into their personal reserve of stamina for big blasty attacks.
Ultimately, we agree. WOTC is a business, and will add classes far faster than players can try them out, because that is where the money is. I watched the Hasbro CEO in an interview last week talking about his plans for growing revenue, and it is very clear that turning WOTC into some kind of cash cow pumping out all kinds of new content is part of that plan. I say "new" content. Not good content. They will not change that to protect the integrity and soul of D&D. You can bet that the CEO does not care one whit about what D&D was, or is, or will become. Only maximizing profit matters. The abomination that shall not be named and what happened to Mr. Potatohead are prime examples of that, both Hasbro products. Oh, and when the current fad ends, and the pushback gets intense, watch Hasbro shift with the winds again, to once again, maximize profit.
Of course, they SHOULD not pump out who knows what content at some accelerated rate. But that is irrelevant. The soul and integrity of D&D means nothing to the C-Suite.
Ultimately, actually, we seem to disagree on practically everything worth disagreeing on. WotC's choice to add newer options has absolutely nothing to do with so called "cancel culture" or Mr. Potato Head losing the "Mr." (which itself has nothing to do with "cancel culture", despite what you may believe).
"New" is not an antonym for "good". If you don't believe me, check a dictionary or thesaurus. New content can be, and often is, "good" (in terms of balance, popularity, and every other objective meaning of the word in this hobby). All other non-objective meanings of "good" that could apply are opinion based and cannot be stated as definitive fact, as you seem to try to do in many threads.
D&D "was" the first and only TTRPG, heavily inspired by tactical wargames, the works of J.R.R. Tolkien, Jack Vance, Robert E. Howard, Michael Moorcock, and quite a few other well known fantasy authors, and created as a dungeon crawl where you create a random character, kill some monsters, and get some loot. D&D now "is" the most popular tabletop RPG in a sea of plenty of other decent/good options (Call of Cthulhu, Edge of the Empire, Pathfinder/Starfinder, Warhammer, GURPS, etc), where people have a much larger attachment to their characters and roleplaying than they did when the game started and mechanics are overall better balanced and simple than they were in the first versions of the game. D&D "will be" an increasingly popular and mainstream fantasy TTRPG where you can be and play practically whatever/whoever you want in order to tell any story you want that manages to qualify to the vague restriction of being "fantasy".
The more popular and mainstream D&D becomes, the more ideas will be added to it. People are different and like different things. I personally prefer a bit more choice in character creation than my friend IamSposta does, which is completely fine, it's just a different preference in playstyle. IamSposta enjoys rolling for ability scores and discovering your character through the dice. On the other hand, I prefer choosing who I play and how to play them, having an idea for the character that is developed/changed throughout the game through roleplay. Playstyle is inherently subjective, and thus there is no objective "right", "wrong", "good", "bad", "false", or "true" to the matter. This is the key. Fun cannot be wrong as long as its overall outcome for the people at the table is positive and does not directly negatively impact people outside of it.
I have fun in Eberron. I have fun in Wildemount. I have fun in my homebrew fantasy-modern world of Tor-eal (which I imagine you would find completely abhorrent). My fun is not your fun, but that does not make it wrong. It does not mean that some elite corporate owners that have no idea what D&D is are caving to some imaginary mob of people on Twitter in order to diversify D&D and turn all of the fictitious potato-humanoids in the multiverse gender-neutral. It means that the scope of D&D is increasing, and that is good for the hobby, as that means it will reach more people. This is both beneficial financially for WotC (which is good for the people that play the game, because we need the game designers to make the game), and beneficial fun-wise for the overall community that plays the game.
Additionally, you keep trying to pretend like none of the new things that are being added make any sense to add to D&D. British Space-Hippos, Brain-Eating-Platypuses, and 11-Laser-Eyed-Giant-Floating-Heads have been in D&D for decades. Don't act like it's just getting weird and silly now. That's complaining about a dead unicorn.
lol this is a little late, but is Tor-eal the fiend version of Toril? I thought I read a really cool post about it.
Some, like the tanuki and yuki-onna, would be cool, but they overlap with western fae a lot in their execution... both of which are sorely lacking as is! Ahem.
TBH that seems like something that could be worked with. One problem a lot of times with these expansions people (wotc included) try to add is that they end up feeling tacked on, something separate and distinct and off in its own little world more or less, which has some unfortunate undertones to it. If they conceptually overlap with fae, then maybe within the context of this setting they're related, then that connection can be built upon to integrate them more thoroughly into the setting.
Make stuff feel more like it belongs and address the tourist-effect that a lot of older material like OA tended to have.
Ultimately, we agree. WOTC is a business, and will add classes far faster than players can try them out, because that is where the money is. I watched the Hasbro CEO in an interview last week talking about his plans for growing revenue, and it is very clear that turning WOTC into some kind of cash cow pumping out all kinds of new content is part of that plan. I say "new" content. Not good content. They will not change that to protect the integrity and soul of D&D. You can bet that the CEO does not care one whit about what D&D was, or is, or will become. Only maximizing profit matters. The abomination that shall not be named and what happened to Mr. Potatohead are prime examples of that, both Hasbro products. Oh, and when the current fad ends, and the pushback gets intense, watch Hasbro shift with the winds again, to once again, maximize profit.
Of course, they SHOULD not pump out who knows what content at some accelerated rate. But that is irrelevant. The soul and integrity of D&D means nothing to the C-Suite.
Ultimately, actually, we seem to disagree on practically everything worth disagreeing on. WotC's choice to add newer options has absolutely nothing to do with so called "cancel culture" or Mr. Potato Head losing the "Mr." (which itself has nothing to do with "cancel culture", despite what you may believe).
"New" is not an antonym for "good". If you don't believe me, check a dictionary or thesaurus. New content can be, and often is, "good" (in terms of balance, popularity, and every other objective meaning of the word in this hobby). All other non-objective meanings of "good" that could apply are opinion based and cannot be stated as definitive fact, as you seem to try to do in many threads.
D&D "was" the first and only TTRPG, heavily inspired by tactical wargames, the works of J.R.R. Tolkien, Jack Vance, Robert E. Howard, Michael Moorcock, and quite a few other well known fantasy authors, and created as a dungeon crawl where you create a random character, kill some monsters, and get some loot. D&D now "is" the most popular tabletop RPG in a sea of plenty of other decent/good options (Call of Cthulhu, Edge of the Empire, Pathfinder/Starfinder, Warhammer, GURPS, etc), where people have a much larger attachment to their characters and roleplaying than they did when the game started and mechanics are overall better balanced and simple than they were in the first versions of the game. D&D "will be" an increasingly popular and mainstream fantasy TTRPG where you can be and play practically whatever/whoever you want in order to tell any story you want that manages to qualify to the vague restriction of being "fantasy".
The more popular and mainstream D&D becomes, the more ideas will be added to it. People are different and like different things. I personally prefer a bit more choice in character creation than my friend IamSposta does, which is completely fine, it's just a different preference in playstyle. IamSposta enjoys rolling for ability scores and discovering your character through the dice. On the other hand, I prefer choosing who I play and how to play them, having an idea for the character that is developed/changed throughout the game through roleplay. Playstyle is inherently subjective, and thus there is no objective "right", "wrong", "good", "bad", "false", or "true" to the matter. This is the key. Fun cannot be wrong as long as its overall outcome for the people at the table is positive and does not directly negatively impact people outside of it.
I have fun in Eberron. I have fun in Wildemount. I have fun in my homebrew fantasy-modern world of Tor-eal (which I imagine you would find completely abhorrent). My fun is not your fun, but that does not make it wrong. It does not mean that some elite corporate owners that have no idea what D&D is are caving to some imaginary mob of people on Twitter in order to diversify D&D and turn all of the fictitious potato-humanoids in the multiverse gender-neutral. It means that the scope of D&D is increasing, and that is good for the hobby, as that means it will reach more people. This is both beneficial financially for WotC (which is good for the people that play the game, because we need the game designers to make the game), and beneficial fun-wise for the overall community that plays the game.
Additionally, you keep trying to pretend like none of the new things that are being added make any sense to add to D&D. British Space-Hippos, Brain-Eating-Platypuses, and 11-Laser-Eyed-Giant-Floating-Heads have been in D&D for decades. Don't act like it's just getting weird and silly now. That's complaining about a dead unicorn.
lol this is a little late, but is Tor-eal the fiend version of Toril? I thought I read a really cool post about it.
It was the world where the devils won the Blood War, yes. I have a huge thread describing it in its entirety here.
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It kind of came up and has been referenced, but within the Forgotten Realms lore are the Shou people, who are intended to represent Japanese cultures. WotC could theoretically develop that further and offer up the Shou Empire, with some new classes or subclasses to allow for those specific fantasy roles from the culture. If they do, I would really like them to do a lot of research, to try and make sure they get it right, as what I have been exposed to in the books so far has been rather stereotypical (the building descriptions are all out of the 70's ninja movies and everyone drinks special tea from tiny pots and cups and stuff) If this IS representative of the old cultural behaviors and such, then fine, but I don't know enough to say for sure. I just think if they do it, it should be done with care and respect for the culture, to make it in line and not some hokey old Bruce Lee type mockery.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
It kind of came up and has been referenced, but within the Forgotten Realms lore are the Shou people, who are intended to represent Japanese cultures. WotC could theoretically develop that further and offer up the Shou Empire, with some new classes or subclasses to allow for those specific fantasy roles from the culture. If they do, I would really like them to do a lot of research, to try and make sure they get it right, as what I have been exposed to in the books so far has been rather stereotypical (the building descriptions are all out of the 70's ninja movies and everyone drinks special tea from tiny pots and cups and stuff) If this IS representative of the old cultural behaviors and such, then fine, but I don't know enough to say for sure. I just think if they do it, it should be done with care and respect for the culture, to make it in line and not some hokey old Bruce Lee type mockery.
Why should DND spend effort getting a foreign culture right when they haven’t even got the European cultures right?
It kind of came up and has been referenced, but within the Forgotten Realms lore are the Shou people, who are intended to represent Japanese cultures. WotC could theoretically develop that further and offer up the Shou Empire, with some new classes or subclasses to allow for those specific fantasy roles from the culture. If they do, I would really like them to do a lot of research, to try and make sure they get it right, as what I have been exposed to in the books so far has been rather stereotypical (the building descriptions are all out of the 70's ninja movies and everyone drinks special tea from tiny pots and cups and stuff) If this IS representative of the old cultural behaviors and such, then fine, but I don't know enough to say for sure. I just think if they do it, it should be done with care and respect for the culture, to make it in line and not some hokey old Bruce Lee type mockery.
Why should DND spend effort getting a foreign culture right when they haven’t even got the European cultures right?
I feel like the response to this is that they should put more effort into getting ANY culture they want to draw inspiration from correct. Not to mention WotC has shown that they will go back and reword/rework things to this end (for example, the reworking of some Vistani representation in Curse of Strahd).
If players want settings/books that draw inspiration from vibrant and unique cultures, the most incorrect way possible to approach that is not to bother since they didnt get other cultures right from the get-go.
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It kind of came up and has been referenced, but within the Forgotten Realms lore are the Shou people, who are intended to represent Japanese cultures. WotC could theoretically develop that further and offer up the Shou Empire, with some new classes or subclasses to allow for those specific fantasy roles from the culture. If they do, I would really like them to do a lot of research, to try and make sure they get it right, as what I have been exposed to in the books so far has been rather stereotypical (the building descriptions are all out of the 70's ninja movies and everyone drinks special tea from tiny pots and cups and stuff) If this IS representative of the old cultural behaviors and such, then fine, but I don't know enough to say for sure. I just think if they do it, it should be done with care and respect for the culture, to make it in line and not some hokey old Bruce Lee type mockery.
Why should DND spend effort getting a foreign culture right when they haven’t even got the European cultures right?
I feel like the response to this is that they should put more effort into getting ANY culture they want to draw inspiration from correct. Not to mention WotC has shown that they will go back and reword/rework things to this end (for example, the reworking of some Vistani representation in Curse of Strahd).
If players want settings/books that draw inspiration from vibrant and unique cultures, the most incorrect way possible to approach that is not to bother since they didnt get other cultures right from the get-go.
This is true for sure. Keeping in mind that a lot of what is there was developed well before the sensitivity era, there are likely a lot of misses and misrepresentations of anything not American. Also, folks should realize a lot of stuff presented is likely intended to represent other cultures, but is done through the eyes of Americans, and that likely puts an angle on the culture that isn't entirely accurate. A lot is likely pulled from local communities who try to maintains some of their cultural habits, beliefs and so on, in their new home. Not the same as getting input from the residents of the region itself, who haven't relocated and still live in the heart of the region the culture developed in.
The defeatist attitude by the other poster is a little sad. "They didn't do this one right, so they should give up entirely" Not a very proactive or positive mindset. Better to try to perform better on each new step and revise existing as you learn more.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
It's worth noting that one does not need to be 100% completely accurate when drawing from other cultures, and indeed this would be far too onerous a burden for a fantasy game.
What is being requested, in the flying-pigs scenario where we get such a book in the first place, is enough respect to avoid going all Mists of Pandaria on D&D. We do not need zero-effort, zero-research, insincere surface-level Shitty Oriental Tropes stuffed into a book. It doesn't truly take an inconceivable effort - the Samurai subclass for the fighter's been well received, the monk base class is more-or-less fine, and there are enough 'Eastern' monsters in the game already to give them a clue. But as someone pointed out earlier, nobody wants a Bruce Lee exploitation movie in D&D sourcebook form. Wizards is generally ******* terrible at this shit, which is why they've been taking it on the chin lately and forced to change course on a number of products. As well as their general attitude of "Ehhhhh nobody cares, all our customers are neckbeard basement NEETs anyways and nobody pays attention to what they like or do."
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I personally think the more variation the better. each player likes there character to be unique so the more options the better. i do understand people wanting to keep it old skl though :)
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I think a Ninja subclass would be a good addition. Assassin Rogue doesn't quite do the job and Way of Shadows Monk lacks the rogue's skills so the only way to really get that Ninja/Shinobi feel is to multiclass Rogue/Monk and since you have to go deep into both classes you have to wait a few levels to even start to get the character you want to play.
I don't know if it should be a Rogue subclass or a Monk subclass. I do heavily lean towards Monk subclass that gives an ability to use Ki to make a Sneak Attack though.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Ninjas are an odd duck, mostly because people expect them to do more than most folks would feel comfortable with a single PC doing. Like you said, Golaryn - people want a 'Ninja' to have the Rogue's deadly Sneak Attack, enhanced skill base, Expertise training, and slipperiness, but also all of the Monk's ki abilities, unarmored defenses, incredible speed, and everything else. A fantasy ninja, the way people want to play them, is a gestalt class, not a multiclass or subclass.
One possible recommendation, as a homebrew rule for people who want that Ninja Assassination feel from a Way of Shadows monk (i.e. the closest you'll ever get to a "Ninja" subclass) is to allow the monk to combine all their attacks into a single strike. Rather than rolling two hits plus Flurry for two more, let the monk roll a single attack roll. On a hit, they deal all their damage. On a miss, they flub and lose all their damage. Charge them ki for it and let them roll an extra MA dice or two in exchange for losing three attacks' worth of Dexterity damage, jigger the balance as needed, but that would be my fix. Would let people get that Ninja Shank they're looking for, and with Skill Expert and some background jiggery one can have the Stealth expertise and Thieves' Tools proficiency one is looking for to make a ninja.
Elsewise a base rogue is good for 'fighty' ninjas that are more about the assassination and combat superiority than other ninjas, while Way of Shadows is good for 'sneaky' ninjas that are more concerned with never being detected and ensuring their infiltrations go unnoticed.
EDIT: Mayhaps something like this
Way of Shadows, Optional 5th-level Class Feature: 'Blade of Silent Sorrow'
As an action, you can strike with supernatural sureness and destroy your foe's vital points. While wielding a dagger or shortsword, you can spend up to two ki points and make a single attack roll against a target creature as an action. On a hit you deal the attack's normal damage, plus additional damage equal to three rolls of your Martial Arts die for each ki point spent to make this action. You cannot make any other attacks on any turn where you use your Blade of Silent Sorrow.
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Overall I think you are right. Pop Culture has had a major impact on what people expect from the Ninja, myself included. I would want it to do way too much.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
While I am thinking about Monks, I would like a Monk half caster. I know we have the Four Elements, but it is so bad.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
As others have said, more elemental subclasses. Reprint Phoenix Sorcerer, WOTC! An Elementalist bard would be fun. Elemental Cleric is an interesting idea (though we already have Tempest, Forge, and Light)
Other ideas: a Rogue with Pact Magic. A Sea Cleric.
The tricky thing about Ninja is that a big variety of classes can feel very Ninja-y if you just flavor them that way.
Way of Shadows Monk is kind of the default example, because it's actively trying to be ninja-like in execution. Definitely more on the "mystical" side of Ninja.
If you want to be historically accurate ninja... well, Assassin has pretty much all of that, right down to unique abilities tied to creating false identities and seamlessly blending into normal society.
Thief could also be easily reflavored as a Ninja, with their ability to climb buildings stealthily and apply deadly poisons quickly and efficiently.
Even Gloomstalker Ranger makes for a great, stealthy ninja. The Ranger spell list has plenty of ninja-appropriate spells, and Gloomstalker especially with the Illusion-based spells granted by Gloom Stalker Magic.
I think the hard part is that there are just so many Ninja archetypes in so many different forms of media that there is no right or wrong way to play a ninja. I'd say, if there's an example of a Ninja in any property (film, show, comic, novel) that you feel can't be replicated with any of the existing classes, go ahead and describe it and maybe we can use that as a jumping off point to theorize what class and subclass would work best.
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I have been thinking about it and I think that IF I were to play a Ninja character, I would go Monk with the Criminal/Spy background and take the Skill Expert Feat for Stealth and then go Kensai to make the most out of all the cool Ninja weapons. I don't really need the mystical stuff for my Ninja concept as most of the what I want comes with the base Monk abilities (speed, walk walking, running on water etc). I could also take Shadow Touched and Magic Initiate if I really need the mystical stuff later. The only thing I would be missing would be Sneak Attack, but I can live without it.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Bruh isn’t there the way of dragon UA?
Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.
The class additions I would like to see are:
These things can overlap, obviously.
I don't personally care one way or another about new races/lineages/species but if people want more, give them more.
Con based stuff would be cool, but sorcerer IMO should have con casting ability
Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.
I get the logic of CON-based Sorcerer, but my thoughts on it have been that CHA is more about force of will, which can be manipulated or twisted more elegantly to accomplish magic, whereas CON is more about just pure brute force.
I'm playing as a Storm Herald Barbarian in my current campaign, and the subclass has a very limited magical output (he can shoot lightning as a bonus action every round, plus a few other tricks), and the Save for those attacks is based on his CON, since it's basically just a question of how much sheer chutzpah he's able to put behind each bolt of lightning.
That said, I think it would be interesting to have a more dedicated half-caster that uses CON as their spellcasting stat, but with a much more limited spell list. I'd imagine it would be mostly evocation spells, but I'd also include spells like shield or fly. I'm starting to think of it as a Monk subclass, going for a kind of Dragonball feel. Something not quite as elegant as a 4 Elements monk, but someone who can just tap into their personal reserve of stamina for big blasty attacks.
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lol this is a little late, but is Tor-eal the fiend version of Toril? I thought I read a really cool post about it.
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TBH that seems like something that could be worked with. One problem a lot of times with these expansions people (wotc included) try to add is that they end up feeling tacked on, something separate and distinct and off in its own little world more or less, which has some unfortunate undertones to it. If they conceptually overlap with fae, then maybe within the context of this setting they're related, then that connection can be built upon to integrate them more thoroughly into the setting.
Make stuff feel more like it belongs and address the tourist-effect that a lot of older material like OA tended to have.
It was the world where the devils won the Blood War, yes. I have a huge thread describing it in its entirety here.
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It kind of came up and has been referenced, but within the Forgotten Realms lore are the Shou people, who are intended to represent Japanese cultures. WotC could theoretically develop that further and offer up the Shou Empire, with some new classes or subclasses to allow for those specific fantasy roles from the culture. If they do, I would really like them to do a lot of research, to try and make sure they get it right, as what I have been exposed to in the books so far has been rather stereotypical (the building descriptions are all out of the 70's ninja movies and everyone drinks special tea from tiny pots and cups and stuff) If this IS representative of the old cultural behaviors and such, then fine, but I don't know enough to say for sure. I just think if they do it, it should be done with care and respect for the culture, to make it in line and not some hokey old Bruce Lee type mockery.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Why should DND spend effort getting a foreign culture right when they haven’t even got the European cultures right?
I feel like the response to this is that they should put more effort into getting ANY culture they want to draw inspiration from correct. Not to mention WotC has shown that they will go back and reword/rework things to this end (for example, the reworking of some Vistani representation in Curse of Strahd).
If players want settings/books that draw inspiration from vibrant and unique cultures, the most incorrect way possible to approach that is not to bother since they didnt get other cultures right from the get-go.
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This is true for sure. Keeping in mind that a lot of what is there was developed well before the sensitivity era, there are likely a lot of misses and misrepresentations of anything not American. Also, folks should realize a lot of stuff presented is likely intended to represent other cultures, but is done through the eyes of Americans, and that likely puts an angle on the culture that isn't entirely accurate. A lot is likely pulled from local communities who try to maintains some of their cultural habits, beliefs and so on, in their new home. Not the same as getting input from the residents of the region itself, who haven't relocated and still live in the heart of the region the culture developed in.
The defeatist attitude by the other poster is a little sad. "They didn't do this one right, so they should give up entirely" Not a very proactive or positive mindset. Better to try to perform better on each new step and revise existing as you learn more.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
It's worth noting that one does not need to be 100% completely accurate when drawing from other cultures, and indeed this would be far too onerous a burden for a fantasy game.
What is being requested, in the flying-pigs scenario where we get such a book in the first place, is enough respect to avoid going all Mists of Pandaria on D&D. We do not need zero-effort, zero-research, insincere surface-level Shitty Oriental Tropes stuffed into a book. It doesn't truly take an inconceivable effort - the Samurai subclass for the fighter's been well received, the monk base class is more-or-less fine, and there are enough 'Eastern' monsters in the game already to give them a clue. But as someone pointed out earlier, nobody wants a Bruce Lee exploitation movie in D&D sourcebook form. Wizards is generally ******* terrible at this shit, which is why they've been taking it on the chin lately and forced to change course on a number of products. As well as their general attitude of "Ehhhhh nobody cares, all our customers are neckbeard basement NEETs anyways and nobody pays attention to what they like or do."
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