my Dm recently approached me about possibly multi classing my Cleric with Warlock.
i play a knowledge Cleric, because as the last person to join the table and this being my first game ever i thought it would be easier if I just filled in what the party needed. with no bard and no dedicated healer, it seemed like the best route to go, and I'm having fun with him but skill challenges are few and far between so Im pretty much just spamming my heals and hoping i can keep the tanks up because knowledge isn't the best domain for damage.
there is backstory stuff for why this is being offered but the only problem is i don't know how it would mix? like all the cleric/warlock builds ive found were like, cleric 1-3/warlock X but im already a level 5 cleric. i also took magical initiate as a feat to try and boost my casting ability before i knew multi-classing was allowed because no one else at the table has before.
this seems really specific and im sorry if this is in the wrong area, please tell me immedietly and i'll move it or repost it in the approptoate forum. I would ask my DM but she's really busy Irl and she's only available to talk immediately before or after sessions and I don't want to waste any more time not knowing what to do.
First and most importantly, Dungeons & Dragons is a game we play to enjoy ourselves, so tell us what you enjoy about your character and the game you're playing, then base your decision on that.
Too often, I see people worried about, "having the right build," or, "our party composition," when the game honestly plays around that with a decent DM.
Unless the DM tells you that it's going to be a combat heavy campaign against difficult monsters, you shouldn't be so worried about combat performance, especially when that's not where a Knowledge cleric shines.
Sorry if you were just expecting an answer, but I don't think any situation is that simple. :)
thats fair. i know that d&d is a subjective game but i figured it was more like mass effect subjective, there are different ways to play but there's basically one "better" way than others.
we've only had 4 sessions and we started at level 3 and now we're level 5. i could just be feeling out classed compared to the rest of the party who are all geared for doing way more damage, two wizards, a barbarian, a fighter and a rogue. knowledge is just not a cleric that can keep up with them damage wise. i tried to choose the majority of the healing spells and the clever spells to create advantages for the party but i end up using all my spell slots for heals because we always end up in fights.
i dont hate playing my character and in fact he's very fun out of combat, but we just fight a lot and i feel like im holding the party back? especially because one of our party died recently. he took some kind of UA feat that let him come back to life, reverent or something, but as the party's only healer that felt really bad. i suppose taking at least 3 levels in warlock would give me healing spells that come back on a long rest, at the very least.
Barbarians & Fighters are always going to be "better" in a fight than a Knowledge Cleric - it's what they do - they're pretty one dimensional (though not as much as in some previous versions of the game).
Wizards can be very flexible, but can be tailored to be really good at combat.
Clerics also can be great at combat - the Life Domain is better at healing (meaning fewer spell slots used on healing). Other domains are better suited to being in the thick of battle, dealing damage and taking blows.
The Knowledge Cleric shines way more when you need to deal with the unknown, puzzles, finding ways to get an advantage over your adversaries before battle is joined. If you're having to use all your spell slots on healing, then it's denying you the ability to play the character in a more interesting way.
Many newer players have played MMO games prior to playing D&D and equate clerics to healers - that's their "role" as it were, so it becomes difficult to have a conversation to explain that the game really shouldn't work that way. The same thing happens when people assume Fighter/Barbarian is a "tank"
You could always ask if you could remake the character from level 1 as a Celestial Warlock. Good combo of damage and healing and still has some religiosity.
I would actually go the opposite direction. Withhold healing for a battle to teach them that they need to watch out better. The way you described it, you're basically there to babysit them. Adding to their adventure instead of having your own. Just because you're part of the party doesn't mean that you have to try and "balance out" their deficiencies.
And 100pctOGL, that really depends on the campaign and the warlock. I just made a Celestial Warlock that's currently at level three. There's healing ability, but the foundation is still largely the original warlock spells and invocations that have very little to do with healing and then it usually has to do with healing yourself. Having access to cure wounds and the healing light feature isn't anywhere near the healing abilities a Cleric will have.
i dont hate playing my character and in fact he's very fun out of combat, but we just fight a lot and i feel like im holding the party back? especially because one of our party died recently. he took some kind of UA feat that let him come back to life, reverent or something, but as the party's only healer that felt really bad. i suppose taking at least 3 levels in warlock would give me healing spells that come back on a long rest, at the very least.
So first off; based on the choices that your pals have made, yes you currently might not be a heavy hitter in the current party. This is not bad, and you likely can take a punch compared to the rogue and wizard..
But as Matthias pointed out, you do have some very potent options. You can certainly take the approach of "A good offense is the best defense." You could have an in game crisis of faith, and level up as a Warlock of the fiend. And use that power as an additional source of magical might. But having more slots, might just mean you heal more too. You could also take some levels in fighter or Paladin to wade into the thick of melee and help soak damage.
So it really comes down to on how you want to play, and what you find fun. I would settle on that first, and build your character around that. That could be a simple tweak on what you do in combat, a dip in a multi-class, or approaching the DM for an exit story and a character you feel fits the vision on what you want to do.
Being a cleric isn't all about healing and that is the problem (as mentioned by someone else) where you get people from an MMO background where cleric/priest is a healer.
My War Cleric cleric is just about to pop lvl8 and I only heal as a last resort or when someone is about to go down. Why? Because it is better to try be pro-active than reactive.
What is better you spend an action and heal 15hit points when you could have a weapon attack or spell attack to do damage and then attack with spiritual weapon e.g guiding bolt -4D6 average of about 13-16 damage plus an attack with spiritual weapon (1d8 + modifier) = 12-14 damage. that might kill the creature and stop him attacking.
Or casting shield of faith on a "frontline class" to give +2 AC which could stop a number of attacks from doing damage.
In the end it is your adventure to, your time playing, technically you don't need a healer in a party to play so make the character what you want it to be, what you envision and what you will enjoy and then make choices depending on how you see your character living their life.
omg i totally lost this website in my tabs and forgot where i had asked this question. first of all i would like to say thank you everyone who answered this. i think I will multiclass for my 7th 8th and 9th levels, even though i know a three level dip that late is really costly im only really putting off the 8th level add damage to cleric cantrips ability. but we fight like 6 to 8 goons per short rest so even if its just a couple cure wounds at level 2 its something i can always do, while giving me access to some out of combat utility spells. and devils sight will be useful because we have a new player, a shadow sorc, who loves to cast darkness every fight.
i know that like, trying to plug up the holes in the party makeup isnt the way your supposed to play a d&d game, its very meta, but my cleric is seeking out "how to bring a lost loved one back to life" because resurrection ain't cheap for NPC's, so throwing in "by any means necessary" and sending him down the warlock path is thematically viable.
i feel like it sounds like im complaining but im not, i promise lol, i just wanna do well. thank you again for taking the time to help me.
my Dm recently approached me about possibly multi classing my Cleric with Warlock.
To each their own, but it bothers me that the DM approached you about changing your character. Seems rude, assisstance if you asked for it or were struggling with your abilities is another thing. I think I just dislike unasked for advice (yes that probably makes me a hypocrite).
As for the multiclass, you probably won't become much more powerful adding another class just because you will still only have fairly low level spells you can prepare from the second class even though you will continue to get higher level spell slots. You will have a couple at will abilities from the warlock and no higher level spells. On the RP side it would fit with your seeking the answers to revival, but another way to integrate that would be perhaps a change of faith/domain if there is a good enough event. Maybe you start getting into some darker forces and accept the death domain as a means to bring back "life" to a person.
As a last note I believe the Cantrip dice are based on character level, not the class level. So those cantrips will still get their extra damage dice, regardless of whether you multiclass or not.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
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my Dm recently approached me about possibly multi classing my Cleric with Warlock.
i play a knowledge Cleric, because as the last person to join the table and this being my first game ever i thought it would be easier if I just filled in what the party needed. with no bard and no dedicated healer, it seemed like the best route to go, and I'm having fun with him but skill challenges are few and far between so Im pretty much just spamming my heals and hoping i can keep the tanks up because knowledge isn't the best domain for damage.
there is backstory stuff for why this is being offered but the only problem is i don't know how it would mix? like all the cleric/warlock builds ive found were like, cleric 1-3/warlock X but im already a level 5 cleric. i also took magical initiate as a feat to try and boost my casting ability before i knew multi-classing was allowed because no one else at the table has before.
this seems really specific and im sorry if this is in the wrong area, please tell me immedietly and i'll move it or repost it in the approptoate forum. I would ask my DM but she's really busy Irl and she's only available to talk immediately before or after sessions and I don't want to waste any more time not knowing what to do.
thank you for taking the time to read this.
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D&D Beyond FoundersFirst and most importantly, Dungeons & Dragons is a game we play to enjoy ourselves, so tell us what you enjoy about your character and the game you're playing, then base your decision on that.
Too often, I see people worried about, "having the right build," or, "our party composition," when the game honestly plays around that with a decent DM.
Unless the DM tells you that it's going to be a combat heavy campaign against difficult monsters, you shouldn't be so worried about combat performance, especially when that's not where a Knowledge cleric shines.
Sorry if you were just expecting an answer, but I don't think any situation is that simple. :)
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
thats fair. i know that d&d is a subjective game but i figured it was more like mass effect subjective, there are different ways to play but there's basically one "better" way than others.
we've only had 4 sessions and we started at level 3 and now we're level 5. i could just be feeling out classed compared to the rest of the party who are all geared for doing way more damage, two wizards, a barbarian, a fighter and a rogue. knowledge is just not a cleric that can keep up with them damage wise. i tried to choose the majority of the healing spells and the clever spells to create advantages for the party but i end up using all my spell slots for heals because we always end up in fights.
i dont hate playing my character and in fact he's very fun out of combat, but we just fight a lot and i feel like im holding the party back? especially because one of our party died recently. he took some kind of UA feat that let him come back to life, reverent or something, but as the party's only healer that felt really bad. i suppose taking at least 3 levels in warlock would give me healing spells that come back on a long rest, at the very least.
thank you for your help
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D&D Beyond FoundersBarbarians & Fighters are always going to be "better" in a fight than a Knowledge Cleric - it's what they do - they're pretty one dimensional (though not as much as in some previous versions of the game).
Wizards can be very flexible, but can be tailored to be really good at combat.
Clerics also can be great at combat - the Life Domain is better at healing (meaning fewer spell slots used on healing). Other domains are better suited to being in the thick of battle, dealing damage and taking blows.
The Knowledge Cleric shines way more when you need to deal with the unknown, puzzles, finding ways to get an advantage over your adversaries before battle is joined. If you're having to use all your spell slots on healing, then it's denying you the ability to play the character in a more interesting way.
Many newer players have played MMO games prior to playing D&D and equate clerics to healers - that's their "role" as it were, so it becomes difficult to have a conversation to explain that the game really shouldn't work that way. The same thing happens when people assume Fighter/Barbarian is a "tank"
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
You could always ask if you could remake the character from level 1 as a Celestial Warlock. Good combo of damage and healing and still has some religiosity.
I would actually go the opposite direction. Withhold healing for a battle to teach them that they need to watch out better. The way you described it, you're basically there to babysit them. Adding to their adventure instead of having your own. Just because you're part of the party doesn't mean that you have to try and "balance out" their deficiencies.
And 100pctOGL, that really depends on the campaign and the warlock. I just made a Celestial Warlock that's currently at level three. There's healing ability, but the foundation is still largely the original warlock spells and invocations that have very little to do with healing and then it usually has to do with healing yourself. Having access to cure wounds and the healing light feature isn't anywhere near the healing abilities a Cleric will have.
Guiding bolt. Spiritual weapon. Shield of faith. Spirit guardians. Inflict wounds.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Being a cleric isn't all about healing and that is the problem (as mentioned by someone else) where you get people from an MMO background where cleric/priest is a healer.
My War Cleric cleric is just about to pop lvl8 and I only heal as a last resort or when someone is about to go down. Why? Because it is better to try be pro-active than reactive.
What is better you spend an action and heal 15hit points when you could have a weapon attack or spell attack to do damage and then attack with spiritual weapon e.g guiding bolt -4D6 average of about 13-16 damage plus an attack with spiritual weapon (1d8 + modifier) = 12-14 damage. that might kill the creature and stop him attacking.
Or casting shield of faith on a "frontline class" to give +2 AC which could stop a number of attacks from doing damage.
In the end it is your adventure to, your time playing, technically you don't need a healer in a party to play so make the character what you want it to be, what you envision and what you will enjoy and then make choices depending on how you see your character living their life.
omg i totally lost this website in my tabs and forgot where i had asked this question. first of all i would like to say thank you everyone who answered this. i think I will multiclass for my 7th 8th and 9th levels, even though i know a three level dip that late is really costly im only really putting off the 8th level add damage to cleric cantrips ability. but we fight like 6 to 8 goons per short rest so even if its just a couple cure wounds at level 2 its something i can always do, while giving me access to some out of combat utility spells. and devils sight will be useful because we have a new player, a shadow sorc, who loves to cast darkness every fight.
i know that like, trying to plug up the holes in the party makeup isnt the way your supposed to play a d&d game, its very meta, but my cleric is seeking out "how to bring a lost loved one back to life" because resurrection ain't cheap for NPC's, so throwing in "by any means necessary" and sending him down the warlock path is thematically viable.
i feel like it sounds like im complaining but im not, i promise lol, i just wanna do well. thank you again for taking the time to help me.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."