By voicing mine? By stating positions in opposition to the statements being voiced by others? By using logical reasoned arguments alongside impassioned and emotional statements? By actively debating against opinions I disagree with?
You mean... the exact same techniques every elected politician in the free world uses to get hitred for their jobs? The same techniques members of governments the world over have used to get people to agree with them going all the way back to the Bronze Age?
You're my friend to. Discussing the moderator action taken upon the loudmouth club in threads is against site rules, so we should probably move that topic to PMs if we want the discussion to continue.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll try to edit it to remain within guidelines.
By voicing mine? By stating positions in opposition to the statements being voiced by others? By using logical reasoned arguments alongside impassioned and emotional statements? By actively debating against opinions I disagree with?
You mean... the exact same techniques every elected politician in the free world uses to get hitred for their jobs? The same techniques members of governments the world over have used to get people to agree with them going all the way back to the Bronze Age?
Yeah. What’s wrong with that?
I wasn't saying anything was wrong, I was just kind of expressing incredulity.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
So the "options" from Tasha's are no longer an option now? I think it's a sneaky and cowardly behaviour from WOTC to label something as an option only to explain later it will be the only way races will be built in future products. I personally feel scammed as customer. I don't get why WOTC wants to antagonize a branch of the fandom while they could simply put racial bonuses and languages for every new race and also explain how to change them following Tasha's rules.
If they really want to build races using only the Tasha's way those groups who are not interested in Tasha's racial rules will find themselves with some races built the classic way and some races built in another way, making the game a huge mess.
This has nothing to do with traditions or previows editions, it's entirely about 5E, about the rules that WOTC created and sold to us in PHB, Volo and Mordenkainen, this is about giving a choice to customers. Tasha gave that choice presenting a variant race building system but the announcement in the last UA removed this choice from us. We paid for the rules in the PHB and, let me remind you, they're still official, it's not fair that players who stll want to use them instead than Tasha's option must be forced to homebrew future official races to make them work according to the official rules provided by WOTC itself.
Again, as customer I feel scammed.
Making it clear to their customers that if they want to play the races in the new supplements they will have to use a variant they may not be interested in instead of the official rules that were sold to them in the PHB or not buy them seems to me a very little inclusive attitude from a company that is making of inclusivity its pride.
Look, the way things have generally always been in D&D world is that there is an understanding that different non-human race/species/whatever each have their own unique strengths, and that their cultures generally have some ubiquitous traits.
I’m not gonna go back and find it, but a few pages ago there was an entire conversation about how best to implement the “culture” aspect of character creation to coincide with this new lineage system. Before, they just listed a few traits generally considered common to all cultures of each specific race/species/whatever, and everything else is considered up to each table to flesh out for themselves. Everything has always been customizable for each table to suite their own preferences. The cultural info for elves was never intended to be the be-all-and-end-all for all eleven everywhere ever, it was just a generic “suggested elf cultural template starting point.” The same goes for all of the races in D&D. It always has because the game was originally three tiny pamphlets. Homebrew wasn’t just “suggested” it was legitimately a requirement to play the game. The problem lies not with the suggestions that they included but in the fact that anyone ever took them as wrote.
So before, they generally grouped the bulk of the generic cultural stuff along with the race/species/whatever because it was convenient. Now they need to create a new system to coexist with this frankenjiggered lineage system and do all of this other convoluted stuff to separate everything when before it was simple and if you wanted it to be different you and your DM got together and changed it and if your DM was a schmuck about it, well, wolfman’s got nards and there other door.
For the Racial Ability bonuses, those were meant to represent genetic predispositions. Just like my pit bull is the biggest and strongest of my three dogs, the dachshund is the best digger and the Chin is the most agile and a superb climber. None of them are any “better” at being dogs than the others, they just have different inherited genetic advantages to some aspects of being dogs. Can the pit bull dig? Absolutely, and quite well. If she practiced she’d be the bestest digger because she’s the biggest and the strongest. But not only is the dachshund generically advantaged to the job, he also loves doing it and therefore practices too. (Much to the harm of my lawn and mower. 🙄) But the dachshund can’t catch anything. But the one-eyed chin can catch anything small and light enough to fit in his mouth, can jump up much higher than any of the other dogs and can balance on things that would even impress the Russian judge. Sound like an Orc, a Dwarf, and an Elf to anyone else? Just sayin....
So before, things were simple and homebrew was basically baked into the DNA of D&D. But now there has to be two entirely new systems to determine what you get from being an elf and what you get from being raised by elves and another system for these other bonuses that are now no longer tied to race at all but are still inexplicably sortakinda attached to the whole thing. WRF?!? How the hell is that in compliance with “the 5e design philosophy” of simpler is better?
It went from a series of guidelines and an expectations that people would just change whatever didn’t suit them and now we need to add bloat to the system to tell people that, in D&D, yes rules are in fact made to be broken.
By voicing mine? By stating positions in opposition to the statements being voiced by others? By using logical reasoned arguments alongside impassioned and emotional statements? By actively debating against opinions I disagree with?
You mean... the exact same techniques every elected politician in the free world uses to get hitred for their jobs? The same techniques members of governments the world over have used to get people to agree with them going all the way back to the Bronze Age?
Yeah. What’s wrong with that?
I wasn't saying anything was wrong, I was just kind of expressing incredulity.
I’m not sure how to take that. Part of me wants to be offended, but the rest of me is willing to grant you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren’t insulting me and that I may have just taken it the wrong way.
I’m not sure how to take that. Part of me wants to be offended, but the rest of me is willing to grant you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren’t insulting me and that I may have just taken it the wrong way.
I'm for sure not trying to insult you, but nothing you had said in the thread before my comment seemed to be about swaying anyone. At least not to me. Is it insulting to say that I think you failed to do what you thought you were doing? I'm no longer contributing anything on topic to this thread so I'm probably going to stop responding.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
So the "options" from Tasha's are no longer an option now?
How are they not an option? As a DM, it's always been both a privilege and a requirement to say "No, you cannot play that character". Sure, WotC is unlikely to print new races in the old format, but so what? All the major traditional races are already printed, and as for tortle dhampirs, it's no different from there not being rules for a half-elf/half-orc. Just assume all dhampir's are not just humanoid, but something similar enough to human that the template makes sense.
So the "options" from Tasha's are no longer an option now? I think it's a sneaky and cowardly behaviour from WOTC to label something as an option only to explain later it will be the only way races will be built in future products. I personally feel scammed as customer. I don't get why WOTC wants to antagonize a branch of the fandom while they could simply put racial bonuses and languages for every new race and also explain how to change them following Tasha's rules.
If they really want to build races using only the Tasha's way those groups who are not interested in Tasha's racial rules will find themselves with some races built the classic way and some races built in another way, making the game a huge mess.
This has nothing to do with traditions or previows editions, it's entirely about 5E, about the rules that WOTC created and sold to us in PHB, Volo and Mordenkainen, this is about giving a choice to customers. Tasha gave that choice presenting a variant race building system but the announcement in the last UA removed this choice from us. We paid for the rules in the PHB and, let me remind you, they're still official, it's not fair that players who stll want to use them instead than Tasha's option must be forced to homebrew future official races to make them work according to the official rules provided by WOTC itself.
Again, as customer I feel scammed.
Making it clear to their customers that if they want to play the races in the new supplements they will have to use a variant they may not be interested in instead of the official rules that were sold to them in the PHB or not buy them seems to me a very little inclusive attitude from a company that is making of inclusivity its pride.
I think "scammed" is a bit much. You can still play the game with the sourcebooks you have, and I don't see lineages really affecting the way adventures are designed. No one has cheated you of anything you already have. The PHB is not an entitlement to a perpetual subscription of new content, and like many in the middle of the road on this, the new content doesn't erase your current game in any way.
But more to the basis of this thread's iteration of the topic. Where exactly should the +2 and +1 be "officially assigned" with any of the gothic lineages? There's nothing about the Hexborn, Dhamphyr, or Reborn that seems to say which of the six stats "essentially" needs to be risen. So given that flexibility, why bind the +2 and +1 to specific abilities? It would be completely arbitrary with nothing to reinforce the why.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
So the "options" from Tasha's are no longer an option now?
How are they not an option? As a DM, it's always been both a privilege and a requirement to say "No, you cannot play that character". Sure, WotC is unlikely to print new races in the old format, but so what? All the major traditional races are already printed, and as for tortle dhampirs, it's no different from there not being rules for a half-elf/half-orc. Just assume all dhampir's are not just humanoid, but something similar enough to human that the template makes sense.
I'm not talking about the lineages in this UA, I'm talking about the statement presented in this UA regarding all the future races inside future books .
Design Note: Changes to Racial Traits In 2020, the book Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything introduced the option to customize several of your character’s racial traits, specifically the Ability Score Increase trait, the Language trait, and traits that give skill, armor, weapon, or tool proficiencies. Following in that book’s footsteps, the race options in this article and in future D&D books lack the Ability Score Increase trait, the Language trait, the Alignment trait, and any other trait that is purely culturaltH
It doesn't matter which traditional races are out or not, it's a matter of new races inside future books that will be no longer compatible with the official rules. It's not fair for groups who want to play new races to be forced to use Tasha's rules if they don't want them.
I'm all for having 2 systems for new races: the one inside the PHB and the one inside Tasha, this way a DM or group can decide which one to use.
What I'm not ok with is to remove this choice from the hands of the customers presenting only one system wich is even different from the one themselves created and sold to us in the core books.
So the "options" from Tasha's are no longer an option now? I think it's a sneaky and cowardly behaviour from WOTC to label something as an option only to explain later it will be the only way races will be built in future products. I personally feel scammed as customer. I don't get why WOTC wants to antagonize a branch of the fandom while they could simply put racial bonuses and languages for every new race and also explain how to change them following Tasha's rules.
If they really want to build races using only the Tasha's way those groups who are not interested in Tasha's racial rules will find themselves with some races built the classic way and some races built in another way, making the game a huge mess.
This has nothing to do with traditions or previows editions, it's entirely about 5E, about the rules that WOTC created and sold to us in PHB, Volo and Mordenkainen, this is about giving a choice to customers. Tasha gave that choice presenting a variant race building system but the announcement in the last UA removed this choice from us. We paid for the rules in the PHB and, let me remind you, they're still official, it's not fair that players who stll want to use them instead than Tasha's option must be forced to homebrew future official races to make them work according to the official rules provided by WOTC itself.
Again, as customer I feel scammed.
Making it clear to their customers that if they want to play the races in the new supplements they will have to use a variant they may not be interested in instead of the official rules that were sold to them in the PHB or not buy them seems to me a very little inclusive attitude from a company that is making of inclusivity its pride.
I think "scammed" is a bit much. You can still play the game with the sourcebooks you have, and I don't see lineages really affecting the way adventures are designed. No one has cheated you of anything you already have. The PHB is not an entitlement to a perpetual subscription of new content, and like many in the middle of the road on this, the new content doesn't erase your current game in any way.
But more to the basis of this thread's iteration of the topic. Where exactly should the +2 and +1 be "officially assigned" with any of the gothic lineages? There's nothing about the Hexborn, Dhamphyr, or Reborn that seems to say which of the six stats "essentially" needs to be risen. So given that flexibility, why bind the +2 and +1 to specific abilities? It would be completely arbitrary with nothing to reinforce the why.
Scammed it is the perfect word and yes, before buying the 5th Edition I took a look at the rules and I liked them, so I bought it and I expect all the future content from the same publisher to be consistent with the same ruleset presented in the core books until they release an entirely new edition. While the future books are still part of the 5th Edition, yes, I'm entitled to having them work with the ruleset I found in the PHB, races included.
It's not my job nor yours to decide where those +2/+1 should go if we don't follow Tasha's rules, it's WOTC's job to present us races compatible with the original ruleset AND Tasha's option.
It's not my job nor yours to decide where those +2/+1 should go if we don't follow Tasha's rules, it's WOTC's job to present us races compatible with the original ruleset AND Tasha's option.
But new races are compatible with the old ruleset though. The only difference is that new races have built in flexibility, whereas old races only have built in flexibility if the DM allows it.
I'm not talking about the lineages in this UA, I'm talking about the statement presented in this UA regarding all the future races inside future books .
Design Note: Changes to Racial Traits In 2020, the book Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything introduced the option to customize several of your character’s racial traits, specifically the Ability Score Increase trait, the Language trait, and traits that give skill, armor, weapon, or tool proficiencies. Following in that book’s footsteps, the race options in this article and in future D&D books lack the Ability Score Increase trait, the Language trait, the Alignment trait, and any other trait that is purely culturaltH
It doesn't matter which traditional races are out or not, it's a matter of new races inside future books that will be no longer compatible with the official rules.
Sure they are. It's not like a variable stat increase and a variable language isn't already available in the phb, may I point out variant human?
It's not my job nor yours to decide where those +2/+1 should go if we don't follow Tasha's rules, it's WOTC's job to present us races compatible with the original ruleset AND Tasha's option.
They're compatible. Nothing makes them unusable in a classic style game (other than them generally not being classic options in the first place).
So the "options" from Tasha's are no longer an option now? I think it's a sneaky and cowardly behaviour from WOTC to label something as an option only to explain later it will be the only way races will be built in future products. I personally feel scammed as customer. I don't get why WOTC wants to antagonize a branch of the fandom while they could simply put racial bonuses and languages for every new race and also explain how to change them following Tasha's rules.
If they really want to build races using only the Tasha's way those groups who are not interested in Tasha's racial rules will find themselves with some races built the classic way and some races built in another way, making the game a huge mess.
This has nothing to do with traditions or previows editions, it's entirely about 5E, about the rules that WOTC created and sold to us in PHB, Volo and Mordenkainen, this is about giving a choice to customers. Tasha gave that choice presenting a variant race building system but the announcement in the last UA removed this choice from us. We paid for the rules in the PHB and, let me remind you, they're still official, it's not fair that players who stll want to use them instead than Tasha's option must be forced to homebrew future official races to make them work according to the official rules provided by WOTC itself.
Again, as customer I feel scammed.
Making it clear to their customers that if they want to play the races in the new supplements they will have to use a variant they may not be interested in instead of the official rules that were sold to them in the PHB or not buy them seems to me a very little inclusive attitude from a company that is making of inclusivity its pride.
I think "scammed" is a bit much. You can still play the game with the sourcebooks you have, and I don't see lineages really affecting the way adventures are designed. No one has cheated you of anything you already have. The PHB is not an entitlement to a perpetual subscription of new content, and like many in the middle of the road on this, the new content doesn't erase your current game in any way.
But more to the basis of this thread's iteration of the topic. Where exactly should the +2 and +1 be "officially assigned" with any of the gothic lineages? There's nothing about the Hexborn, Dhamphyr, or Reborn that seems to say which of the six stats "essentially" needs to be risen. So given that flexibility, why bind the +2 and +1 to specific abilities? It would be completely arbitrary with nothing to reinforce the why.
Scammed it is the perfect word and yes, before buying the 5th Edition I took a look at the rules and I liked them, so I bought it and I expect all the future content from the same publisher to be consistent with the same ruleset presented in the core books until they release an entirely new edition. While the future books are still part of the 5th Edition, yes, I'm entitled to having them work with the ruleset I found in the PHB, races included.
It's not my job nor yours to decide where those +2/+1 should go if we don't follow Tasha's rules, it's WOTC's job to present us races compatible with the original ruleset AND Tasha's option.
The publisher who put out three(?) prior editions to the game? After the core books were published, where were you promised that ruleset would be supported and built upon forever? Being disappointed because you wanted one way over the other way is one thing. Claiming some sort of malfeasance is IMHO a bit much.
Are variant humans as presented in the PHB in your game legal? This isn't that radical a departure from that, and a lot of Tasha's readers recognized that. Nothing is stopping a DM from saying "At my table, ASIs for these lineages work thus ..." and locking it up like that, if you feel you really need to. Ideally you'd probably want to have some in game narrative rationale as to why Reborn get +2 CON +1 CHR if that's how you lock it, and that situation is far from an injury warranting the allegation "scam".
WOTC's job is to sell game materials. I think they do a decent job at it. If you feel differently, we live in a market system that gives you an option to express you opinion. Maybe some will disagree with you, but I feel these moves are based on market research of what players want more than don't want in the game. I'd like to see "quick builds" available too for players who don't want to think through lineage construction. But if I don't see it, I"m not going to rhetorically criminalize that lack.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
That's the point! They're removing from the DM the ability to allow flexibility or not. With players that have races with settled ability bonuses and races where players can optimize their build.
So the "options" from Tasha's are no longer an option now? I think it's a sneaky and cowardly behaviour from WOTC to label something as an option only to explain later it will be the only way races will be built in future products. I personally feel scammed as customer. I don't get why WOTC wants to antagonize a branch of the fandom while they could simply put racial bonuses and languages for every new race and also explain how to change them following Tasha's rules.
If they really want to build races using only the Tasha's way those groups who are not interested in Tasha's racial rules will find themselves with some races built the classic way and some races built in another way, making the game a huge mess.
This has nothing to do with traditions or previows editions, it's entirely about 5E, about the rules that WOTC created and sold to us in PHB, Volo and Mordenkainen, this is about giving a choice to customers. Tasha gave that choice presenting a variant race building system but the announcement in the last UA removed this choice from us. We paid for the rules in the PHB and, let me remind you, they're still official, it's not fair that players who stll want to use them instead than Tasha's option must be forced to homebrew future official races to make them work according to the official rules provided by WOTC itself.
Again, as customer I feel scammed.
Making it clear to their customers that if they want to play the races in the new supplements they will have to use a variant they may not be interested in instead of the official rules that were sold to them in the PHB or not buy them seems to me a very little inclusive attitude from a company that is making of inclusivity its pride.
I think "scammed" is a bit much. You can still play the game with the sourcebooks you have, and I don't see lineages really affecting the way adventures are designed. No one has cheated you of anything you already have. The PHB is not an entitlement to a perpetual subscription of new content, and like many in the middle of the road on this, the new content doesn't erase your current game in any way.
But more to the basis of this thread's iteration of the topic. Where exactly should the +2 and +1 be "officially assigned" with any of the gothic lineages? There's nothing about the Hexborn, Dhamphyr, or Reborn that seems to say which of the six stats "essentially" needs to be risen. So given that flexibility, why bind the +2 and +1 to specific abilities? It would be completely arbitrary with nothing to reinforce the why.
Scammed it is the perfect word and yes, before buying the 5th Edition I took a look at the rules and I liked them, so I bought it and I expect all the future content from the same publisher to be consistent with the same ruleset presented in the core books until they release an entirely new edition. While the future books are still part of the 5th Edition, yes, I'm entitled to having them work with the ruleset I found in the PHB, races included.
It's not my job nor yours to decide where those +2/+1 should go if we don't follow Tasha's rules, it's WOTC's job to present us races compatible with the original ruleset AND Tasha's option.
The publisher who put out three(?) prior editions to the game? After the core books were published, where were you promised that ruleset would be supported and built upon forever? Being disappointed because you wanted one way over the other way is one thing. Claiming some sort of malfeasance is IMHO a bit much.
Are variant humans as presented in the PHB in your game legal? This isn't that radical a departure from that, and a lot of Tasha's readers recognized that. Nothing is stopping a DM from saying "At my table, ASIs for these lineages work thus ..." and locking it up like that, if you feel you really need to. Ideally you'd probably want to have some in game narrative rationale as to why Reborn get +2 CON +1 CHR if that's how you lock it, and that situation is far from an injury warranting the allegation "scam".
WOTC's job is to sell game materials. I think they do a decent job at it. If you feel differently, we live in a market system that gives you an option to express you opinion. Maybe some will disagree with you, but I feel these moves are based on market research of what players want more than don't want in the game. I'd like to see "quick builds" available too for players who don't want to think through lineage construction. But if I don't see it, I"m not going to rhetorically criminalize that lack.
You don't understand my words or you just pretend no to.
Let me be very clear:
Previows editions with their rulesets are dead, no longer supported, replaced by this current edition. Until this current edition is not replaced with a new edition I expect that the new supplements for this current edition stay faithful to the same ruleset they sold us in the Core Books, including how races are built, with preselected bonus abilities and languages.
If they don't do that, they're scamming their customers.
Variant Human is the perfect example, I'm all for variants, I'm glad people who want more flexibility can use Tasha's rules at their table, but to have variants we must have more than one choice, anf if all the future races are built using Tasha's rules only we don't have a real choice anymore.
That's the point! They're removing from the DM the ability to allow flexibility or not. With players that have races with settled ability bonuses and races where players can optimize their build.
They are not removing any of the GM's ability though. RAW, GMs' ruling already supersedes RAW. GMs do not have to follow RAW if they do not want to.
That's the point! They're removing from the DM the ability to allow flexibility or not. With players that have races with settled ability bonuses and races where players can optimize their build.
They are not removing any of the GM's ability though. RAW, GMs' ruling already supersedes RAW. GMs do not have to follow RAW if they do not want to.
They are adding more work to the DM who wants to keep races as they were presented in the PHB.
Am I the only one who find absurd that a DM has to homebrew a race presented in a new supplment to make it similar to how races are built according to the official rules???
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Apology accepted.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
By voicing mine? By stating positions in opposition to the statements being voiced by others? By using logical reasoned arguments alongside impassioned and emotional statements? By actively debating against opinions I disagree with?
You mean... the exact same techniques every elected politician in the free world uses to get hitred for their jobs? The same techniques members of governments the world over have used to get people to agree with them going all the way back to the Bronze Age?
Yeah. What’s wrong with that?
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Thanks for the heads up. I'll try to edit it to remain within guidelines.
I wasn't saying anything was wrong, I was just kind of expressing incredulity.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Look, the way things have generally always been in D&D world is that there is an understanding that different non-human race/species/whatever each have their own unique strengths, and that their cultures generally have some ubiquitous traits.
I’m not gonna go back and find it, but a few pages ago there was an entire conversation about how best to implement the “culture” aspect of character creation to coincide with this new lineage system. Before, they just listed a few traits generally considered common to all cultures of each specific race/species/whatever, and everything else is considered up to each table to flesh out for themselves. Everything has always been customizable for each table to suite their own preferences. The cultural info for elves was never intended to be the be-all-and-end-all for all eleven everywhere ever, it was just a generic “suggested elf cultural template starting point.” The same goes for all of the races in D&D. It always has because the game was originally three tiny pamphlets. Homebrew wasn’t just “suggested” it was legitimately a requirement to play the game. The problem lies not with the suggestions that they included but in the fact that anyone ever took them as wrote.
So before, they generally grouped the bulk of the generic cultural stuff along with the race/species/whatever because it was convenient. Now they need to create a new system to coexist with this frankenjiggered lineage system and do all of this other convoluted stuff to separate everything when before it was simple and if you wanted it to be different you and your DM got together and changed it and if your DM was a schmuck about it, well, wolfman’s got nards and there other door.
For the Racial Ability bonuses, those were meant to represent genetic predispositions. Just like my pit bull is the biggest and strongest of my three dogs, the dachshund is the best digger and the Chin is the most agile and a superb climber. None of them are any “better” at being dogs than the others, they just have different inherited genetic advantages to some aspects of being dogs. Can the pit bull dig? Absolutely, and quite well. If she practiced she’d be the bestest digger because she’s the biggest and the strongest. But not only is the dachshund generically advantaged to the job, he also loves doing it and therefore practices too. (Much to the harm of my lawn and mower. 🙄) But the dachshund can’t catch anything. But the one-eyed chin can catch anything small and light enough to fit in his mouth, can jump up much higher than any of the other dogs and can balance on things that would even impress the Russian judge. Sound like an Orc, a Dwarf, and an Elf to anyone else? Just sayin....
So before, things were simple and homebrew was basically baked into the DNA of D&D. But now there has to be two entirely new systems to determine what you get from being an elf and what you get from being raised by elves and another system for these other bonuses that are now no longer tied to race at all but are still inexplicably sortakinda attached to the whole thing. WRF?!? How the hell is that in compliance with “the 5e design philosophy” of simpler is better?
It went from a series of guidelines and an expectations that people would just change whatever didn’t suit them and now we need to add bloat to the system to tell people that, in D&D, yes rules are in fact made to be broken.
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I’m not sure how to take that. Part of me wants to be offended, but the rest of me is willing to grant you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren’t insulting me and that I may have just taken it the wrong way.
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I'm for sure not trying to insult you, but nothing you had said in the thread before my comment seemed to be about swaying anyone. At least not to me. Is it insulting to say that I think you failed to do what you thought you were doing? I'm no longer contributing anything on topic to this thread so I'm probably going to stop responding.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
How are they not an option? As a DM, it's always been both a privilege and a requirement to say "No, you cannot play that character". Sure, WotC is unlikely to print new races in the old format, but so what? All the major traditional races are already printed, and as for tortle dhampirs, it's no different from there not being rules for a half-elf/half-orc. Just assume all dhampir's are not just humanoid, but something similar enough to human that the template makes sense.
I think "scammed" is a bit much. You can still play the game with the sourcebooks you have, and I don't see lineages really affecting the way adventures are designed. No one has cheated you of anything you already have. The PHB is not an entitlement to a perpetual subscription of new content, and like many in the middle of the road on this, the new content doesn't erase your current game in any way.
But more to the basis of this thread's iteration of the topic. Where exactly should the +2 and +1 be "officially assigned" with any of the gothic lineages? There's nothing about the Hexborn, Dhamphyr, or Reborn that seems to say which of the six stats "essentially" needs to be risen. So given that flexibility, why bind the +2 and +1 to specific abilities? It would be completely arbitrary with nothing to reinforce the why.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I'm not talking about the lineages in this UA, I'm talking about the statement presented in this UA regarding all the future races inside future books .
Design Note: Changes to Racial Traits In 2020, the book Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything introduced the option to customize several of your character’s racial traits, specifically the Ability Score Increase trait, the Language trait, and traits that give skill, armor, weapon, or tool proficiencies. Following in that book’s footsteps, the race options in this article and in future D&D books lack the Ability Score Increase trait, the Language trait, the Alignment trait, and any other trait that is purely culturaltH
It doesn't matter which traditional races are out or not, it's a matter of new races inside future books that will be no longer compatible with the official rules. It's not fair for groups who want to play new races to be forced to use Tasha's rules if they don't want them.
I'm all for having 2 systems for new races: the one inside the PHB and the one inside Tasha, this way a DM or group can decide which one to use.
What I'm not ok with is to remove this choice from the hands of the customers presenting only one system wich is even different from the one themselves created and sold to us in the core books.
Scammed it is the perfect word and yes, before buying the 5th Edition I took a look at the rules and I liked them, so I bought it and I expect all the future content from the same publisher to be consistent with the same ruleset presented in the core books until they release an entirely new edition. While the future books are still part of the 5th Edition, yes, I'm entitled to having them work with the ruleset I found in the PHB, races included.
It's not my job nor yours to decide where those +2/+1 should go if we don't follow Tasha's rules, it's WOTC's job to present us races compatible with the original ruleset AND Tasha's option.
But new races are compatible with the old ruleset though. The only difference is that new races have built in flexibility, whereas old races only have built in flexibility if the DM allows it.
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Sure they are. It's not like a variable stat increase and a variable language isn't already available in the phb, may I point out variant human?
They're compatible. Nothing makes them unusable in a classic style game (other than them generally not being classic options in the first place).
The publisher who put out three(?) prior editions to the game? After the core books were published, where were you promised that ruleset would be supported and built upon forever? Being disappointed because you wanted one way over the other way is one thing. Claiming some sort of malfeasance is IMHO a bit much.
Are variant humans as presented in the PHB in your game legal? This isn't that radical a departure from that, and a lot of Tasha's readers recognized that. Nothing is stopping a DM from saying "At my table, ASIs for these lineages work thus ..." and locking it up like that, if you feel you really need to. Ideally you'd probably want to have some in game narrative rationale as to why Reborn get +2 CON +1 CHR if that's how you lock it, and that situation is far from an injury warranting the allegation "scam".
WOTC's job is to sell game materials. I think they do a decent job at it. If you feel differently, we live in a market system that gives you an option to express you opinion. Maybe some will disagree with you, but I feel these moves are based on market research of what players want more than don't want in the game. I'd like to see "quick builds" available too for players who don't want to think through lineage construction. But if I don't see it, I"m not going to rhetorically criminalize that lack.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
That's the point! They're removing from the DM the ability to allow flexibility or not. With players that have races with settled ability bonuses and races where players can optimize their build.
You don't understand my words or you just pretend no to.
Let me be very clear:
Previows editions with their rulesets are dead, no longer supported, replaced by this current edition. Until this current edition is not replaced with a new edition I expect that the new supplements for this current edition stay faithful to the same ruleset they sold us in the Core Books, including how races are built, with preselected bonus abilities and languages.
If they don't do that, they're scamming their customers.
Variant Human is the perfect example, I'm all for variants, I'm glad people who want more flexibility can use Tasha's rules at their table, but to have variants we must have more than one choice, anf if all the future races are built using Tasha's rules only we don't have a real choice anymore.
They are not removing any of the GM's ability though. RAW, GMs' ruling already supersedes RAW. GMs do not have to follow RAW if they do not want to.
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No they aren't. They're just requiring the DM to actually do it, instead of have the game system do it for them.
They are adding more work to the DM who wants to keep races as they were presented in the PHB.
Am I the only one who find absurd that a DM has to homebrew a race presented in a new supplment to make it similar to how races are built according to the official rules???