Why do people keep saying "90% of spells are the same" or "It's only a few spells that have changed" or "Just a few dozen."
This does not appear to be true.
According to a reputable source, there are 106 spells that have been mechanically changed in some way. (From what I can see here)
On top of that, in order to effectively restore your access to these original versions of spells and their functionality in the character sheet, you would not only need to homebrew these spells manually, you would also need to homebrew the following features: (As mentioned elsewhere in this thread by WolfmanRIP)
Every subclass that grants spells needs to be homebrewed
Every item that grants spells needs to be homebrewed
Every warlock invocation that grants spells - these cannot be homebrewed and will not be usable with 2014 rules
Every class that grants extra spells (mainly through the Tasha's expanded spell lists) - as far as I know these also cannot be homebrewed so will be unusable.
Every monster that casts spells will need to be homebrewed
(Adding one of my own here) Every mundane and magical item that is being changed with the new ruleset (the numbers of which are as of yet unknown)
Which is, of course, to speak nothing about the actual monetary value that every single person who has purchased digital rulebooks from D&D Beyond is losing out on.
It's been argued ad nauseam but we say it louder for the people in the back.
The vast majority of those upset feel they have been wronged because when they purchased the digital copies of these books, they bought into an agreement, understanding, promise, whatever you wish to call it, that they would be able to utilize this content, AS STATED IN THE PRODUCT DETAILS TO THIS VERY DAY, within D&D Beyond's "Digital Toolset".
When this functionality is removed from the site, those of us who specifically purchased access to use this content in the Digital Toolset will effectively have the primary purpose of our purchases ripped away from us. This is what we find unacceptable. This is what we find objectionable.
We recognize that there are people who are happy to receive these updates for free. We understand that they see this as 'getting something instead of nothing'.
But WE DO NOT SEE IT THE SAME WAY. It is clear, if you take just a brief glance around the various D&D communities around the internet that a significant majority of discourse centers around the fact that we FIND LITTLE TO NO VALUE IN THE 2024 RULESET that we will be receiving because we DID NOT ASK FOR IT AND DO NOT WANT TO USE IT.
The decisions by whatever powers that be to take a Profit focused approach (Because it is very clear that this is a push to 'encourage' long-standing members of the D&D Beyond community to spend even more money buying into updated systems they do not want or need by cutting off their access to the Digital Toolset they have already paid to use), is predatory, insulting, and a betrayal of their userbase.
What would we like to be done about it?
I would hope the answer to that question would be obvious.
Must-Have: - Creating a duplicate database for the 2014 content that, upon character/campaign creation, can be selected, via a toggle, dropdown menu, etc, as the primary ruleset for said character/campaign which would allow new and existing 5e characters and campaigns to proceed unchanged. Would be Nice: - Develop a system to migrate existing 2014 characters/campaigns to the updated 2024 ruleset for those who wish to opt-in to the new rules in the future. Pipe-Dream: - Assurances that support for 2014 content within the Digital Toolset will be protected for as long as a significant portion (Can be defined later) of the userbase of D&D Beyond still utilizes the game-system.
Please Note:I, by no means, speak for everyone who is upset by these changes, but I have seen a significant amount of people making these statements all across the internet.
If I have missed something, or misrepresented something, it is not due to intentional malice, and is very likely due to my own incompetency.
There is no database design ever that would warrant replacement on a technical site at all.
Yeah there is. No good database design would require it, but if you think the backend code isn't held together with duct tape and baling wire you've been on a different site from me. My guess is that characters are stored as some blob (say, json or xml) that is storing known spells by name (rather than by some database unique ID). Not an unfixable problem, but not trivial.
They can literally call the new spells "Conjure Animals (2024)" etc. then if it's such a problem. Means it won't affect 2014 edition content and only affect new 2024 edition content and nobody would have batted an eyelash at that. There's a million an 1 solutions to this problem and they've chosen the worst out of all of them
I am certainly not the most eloquent voice on this matter, and I've had my fair share of visceral, emotional outbursts in this and other threads, but at the end of the day I feel it is important to clearly and concisely demonstrate the problem, define the most common objections to the decisions being made, and present possible solutions to these issues for consideration.
While the cynic in me feels like we are all simply yelling into a deep dark abyss of capitalistic greed and stock prices, I've seen what the D&D community at large can do when we all collectively balk at monumentally moronic decisions being made by those so high up in the organization they have lost all semblance of relations to their core userbase.
I have several 5e campaigns here using the 2014 rules that I DM and a few more that I play in. I have well over 100 characters built. About half are NPCs for those campaigns and about a quarter are Pre-Gens for new players to try when I do introduction games.
Most of these campaigns are not finished and we do not want to switch to the 2024 rules until the campaigns are finished. Nor do I have any desire to implement it piece meal we did that with 3e and 3.5. I want to be able to see all three books and gauge the full changes and balance together which I cannot do until 2025 then make a decision about whether we want to use those rules or wait until the respective campaign is over.
I did not buy the books for the compendium portion I bought them for the ease of managing and building characters while my players had access to the descriptions in their character sheets. That is the primary use for this site. Not an e-library. That library is secondary, useful but not why I came to the site. I purchased it for the functionality in the character builder and organizing my campaigns.
I encouraged my players and other DMs to use the site for that functionality. But now content we are using for that functionality is taken away against what was and is the statement for purchasing as we have. I have no interest in piecing together another mish-mash of rules or having to recreate material I paid to use initially through a homebrew or watch as certain builds get broken.
You have the legacy system.
I asked about a toggle for 2014 and 2024 so this very thing wouldn't be a problem. There was silence and I became concerned. I asked and there were vague answers. I will even grant that the mods didn't know and they were are now in a horrible position to manage another decision that is snowballing.
I remained concerned but was willing to wait. I had hoped we would get the toggle to allow a choice. That whoever made the call would see the value in not disrupting why this website is useful. Especially for those of us who have spent several hundred if not above a thousand dollars on buying the ability to use the toolset/character builder. I prefer the physical books and I have played since 1974 but for managing characters and campaigns this made my work as a DM easier and I paid for that. To have what I paid for removed without consent is violating, disappointing, and has me considering actually ending playing DnD during what should be the pinnacle year for the game.
I ordered the 2024 books on faith given the original statement we'd still be able to play our 2014 games here as is. Then Jeremy's rhetoric started to change and that was concerning but nonetheless the legacy system had been implemented before. So I had faith that the consumer base wouldn't be screwed with. That the legacy system of some form would be implemented because it was understood what the function was for many on this site. Now, I just feel disappointed, and where I was interested in eventually reviewing the 2024 books I have little interest and I am currently telling all my players and fellow DMs to pull copies of their characters. Our enjoyment of this game has been undermined because all of us are hard working people who chose to spend our money to use this tool for all portions of the 2014 rules. If we decided we want to use it for the 2024 rules, after we purchase them, that should be our choice. We paid for the product, we paid to be able to use the product and as many have said they want to finish their campaigns using the 2014 rules as there is a balance there that is understood.
It's not like the functionality isn't there. It's been done. Legacy and toggles.
If we are truly being listened to, don't sit there and break people's characters and make more work for them to run their campaigns. Use the tools you have in the legacy system and toggles. It may actually garner good will and bring more over to the 2024 rules rather than this tide that is snowballing where people are now being turned off.
Please bring this to whomever needs to actually see it to make the decision. It has been said that those who are content never speak out and remain silent and normally I agree with this but there is also a caveat to that you need to be aware of the actual change and as others have said in this case there are a number of users who are going to be rather confused on the 3rd because this was quietly stated in a way most would miss and confusion usually leads to anger. You cannot count those who were unaware as being part of the silent satisfied majority.
I've been here over six years and bought everything official and most third party materials. Even the Monsters of Drakkenheim I went with the VTT option for here but now I'm not sure whether I want to use this as my primary platform. I hope minds will change as the community continues to express itself and those who have the ability actually hear the community.
I purchased content for the character builder. That will no longer be accessable. Do not try and claim that compendium content is an acceptable substitute.
Most of us paid more to specifically have the content for the character builder, if it’s not available in the character builder it absolutely is inaccessible for the purpose in which it was purchased.
After the OGl debacle this picture sums up pretty much how I feel looking at these 'updates' and my trust is at an ultimate low. Saying we should create homebrew option of all the things is insane, especially since there is a very high chance that you will limit the amount of homebrew an account can have, unless you get a subscription. Might not happen now, but I simply don't believe it will stay that way in the future.
I also think it is so disrespectful to all your customers and the DM's and Players, who's sessions, campaigns are being influenced by these 'updates'. The least you could have done was give a better heads up about it so people had time to adjust, instead of breaking your promise that we would be able to play the same way if we choose to keep playing with older content.
Hey, look, everyone is still twisting this into the worst-faith reading of this and still replying with "BUT WHAT ABOUT" when their points are addressed.
If your problem is "I don't wanna copy-paste text into the homebrew system and hit 'enable homebrew content'!", you have displayed the most willfully obtuse way to use and navigate this tool. A tool that just gives a visual and interactive representation to the process we go through AT THE TABLE when someone says: "I think we'll use this rule instead."
Nothing goes away, no content vanishes, and people CONTINUE to lie about it. Built-in call functions cannot reference 2 sources simultaneously. A single sheet cannot operate on 2 different programmed operations.
If you want to suggest a real and VALID course of action: Suggest the building and implementation of a 2014 and 2024 character sheet, each with the expected rules and calling functionality. When that BASE exists, it gives a much more concrete argument for moving all pre-2024 content to a fleshed-out and fully-functional Legacy system with full implementation; a job that becomes the burden of the developers who build and maintain these tools, and we should expect them to handle and navigate that particular workload accordingly. Which is NOT in the hands nor on the clock of anyone but them, with open communication preferably offered to US about it.
You're provably wrong, as we've seen them do this exact thing before. Legacy versions of races exist that were changed and re-released in MToF. So they could easily flag the 2014 versions as "Legacy" content and let players pick which ruleset to create them under.
If I wanted the 2014 content as a static pdf I would have found a copy online and downloaded it. I did not pirate it because I wanted to use the content via the character sheets (and I did not have the time or inclination to homebrew it).
I purchased other content here for the convenience of using that through the online tools provided here, which I paid a subscription to use.
Our player groups have decided not to update our current campaigns to 2024 but you have made that impossible.
Our only option to continue our current D&D sessions online and under our preferred rule set and is to take our business elsewhere.
There is no point in paying for a subscription that no longer does what we desire it to do, the sharing of our 2014 content playable through the convenience of dndbeyond characters.
Your vtt maps is an inferior product to all your competitors and holds no fascination for us and we have no interest in your D&D WoW (Sigil).
So if you don’t allow us access to the context we paid for, through the convenience of access via the character sheets, then why would we stay?
I've had a master tier subscription here for quite a while, I've purchased books for (to me) an ungodly amount of money simple because of the convenience of the character builder.
My friends and I have used this site to build our characters for every campaign I've played in since I found it.
If all of a sudden, all the characters I play won't have access to all the spells and items (that I've paid for) from the 2014 books then why the hell should I keep using this site?
"You can look it up on the compendi..." I BOUGHT THE BOOKS ON THIS SITE SO THAT I WOULDN'T HAVE TO CROSS REFERENCE A BOOK EVERY DAMN TIME I WANTED TO LOOK UP MY CHARACTER TRAITS, SPELLS AND ITEMS, AND NOW YOU WANT ME TO ANYWAY?
As a software dev myself, I simply do not see how it's so damn hard to just implement a toggle for which content to access in my character sheet.
They literally could just make a backup of the old website system, and then add tags for each page and version and add legacy tags/content as they did with previous rulebooks and updates. They're just being lazy web developers.
They've got a week, it's not enough time to do any substantive development. What they should have done is announced their migration plans back in June, at which point they would actually be able to respond to feedback (assuming they hired sufficient staff to be able to do it, which I somewhat doubt).
Backup and adding in tags on a website doesn't take a week to do. They shouldn't have needed any feedback, this should have been a given.
By defaulting existing character sheets to new versions of these spells and not just making them available. You are now making an extra hoop for your players to jump through to use the characters they have been playing in some cases for years. We use these virtual tools to make our lives easier. We invest in them to make our games smoother. It makes no sense to add unnecessary hurdles to players who haven’t moved and it feels coercive in its implementation for those not ready to move and use the new content yet. This was not the seamless experience we were promised.
Same here, was about to pre-order the whole package, until it became apparent that I could not use any of the 2014 books in the character sheet. So the whole reason for buying the books here (I already had a hardcover version at home) is being removed, I say refund should be in order...
I'll just say this: let me use 2014 rules in my character sheet or provide me a refund for the books I own. I paid for years for a service you are now ending. I bought the books here because it allowed me to easily have them accessible in a character sheet generator. I paid for that. I didn't and don't plan to buy the new 2024 books. That's not the service I want. If you are forcing me to use new content, the content I'm not interested, then I won't continue to pay for the service.
I rejected dndONE. I rejected dnd2024. I want to play 5e, so let me play 5e. If you won't, ill go back to using xcel sheets. Simple as.
a significant majority of discourse centers around the fact that we FIND LITTLE TO NO VALUE IN THE 2024 RULESET that we will be receiving because we DID NOT ASK FOR IT AND DO NOT WANT TO USE IT.
It's not that a "significant majority" doesn't want the 2024 ruleset. That seems like an oversimplification. Many folks -- maybe even the majority of those voicing their concerns -- have stated that they planned to buy the new books, or planned to adopt the rules
I would say the main issue is having those rule changes forced on people who are still in the middle of campaigns, without even giving them a chance to review those changes first
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
"Some people are okay with these changes, and some are not"
Let me correct that for you...
"A very, very, very small percentage of people are okay with these changes, while the overwhelmingly vast majority of people are not"
Semantics. People who have negative opinions are generally more vocal about their displeasure than those who are okay with something. Those who are okay with something, as I'm seeing here, are quick to be called 'shills', 'sheep', or any other negative moniker.
Please dont call it "semantics" and getting away like the whole community expresing their dislike to the automatic changes is nothing. This is a game, you are right calling out people lossing their manners literally for a game. But please ear your community.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Why do people keep saying "90% of spells are the same" or "It's only a few spells that have changed" or "Just a few dozen."
This does not appear to be true.
According to a reputable source, there are 106 spells that have been mechanically changed in some way. (From what I can see here)
On top of that, in order to effectively restore your access to these original versions of spells and their functionality in the character sheet, you would not only need to homebrew these spells manually, you would also need to homebrew the following features: (As mentioned elsewhere in this thread by WolfmanRIP)
Which is, of course, to speak nothing about the actual monetary value that every single person who has purchased digital rulebooks from D&D Beyond is losing out on.
It's been argued ad nauseam but we say it louder for the people in the back.
The vast majority of those upset feel they have been wronged because when they purchased the digital copies of these books, they bought into an agreement, understanding, promise, whatever you wish to call it, that they would be able to utilize this content, AS STATED IN THE PRODUCT DETAILS TO THIS VERY DAY, within D&D Beyond's "Digital Toolset".
When this functionality is removed from the site, those of us who specifically purchased access to use this content in the Digital Toolset will effectively have the primary purpose of our purchases ripped away from us. This is what we find unacceptable. This is what we find objectionable.
We recognize that there are people who are happy to receive these updates for free. We understand that they see this as 'getting something instead of nothing'.
But WE DO NOT SEE IT THE SAME WAY. It is clear, if you take just a brief glance around the various D&D communities around the internet that a significant majority of discourse centers around the fact that we FIND LITTLE TO NO VALUE IN THE 2024 RULESET that we will be receiving because we DID NOT ASK FOR IT AND DO NOT WANT TO USE IT.
The decisions by whatever powers that be to take a Profit focused approach (Because it is very clear that this is a push to 'encourage' long-standing members of the D&D Beyond community to spend even more money buying into updated systems they do not want or need by cutting off their access to the Digital Toolset they have already paid to use), is predatory, insulting, and a betrayal of their userbase.
What would we like to be done about it?
I would hope the answer to that question would be obvious.
Must-Have:
- Creating a duplicate database for the 2014 content that, upon character/campaign creation, can be selected, via a toggle, dropdown menu, etc, as the primary ruleset for said character/campaign which would allow new and existing 5e characters and campaigns to proceed unchanged.
Would be Nice:
- Develop a system to migrate existing 2014 characters/campaigns to the updated 2024 ruleset for those who wish to opt-in to the new rules in the future.
Pipe-Dream:
- Assurances that support for 2014 content within the Digital Toolset will be protected for as long as a significant portion (Can be defined later) of the userbase of D&D Beyond still utilizes the game-system.
Please Note: I, by no means, speak for everyone who is upset by these changes, but I have seen a significant amount of people making these statements all across the internet.
If I have missed something, or misrepresented something, it is not due to intentional malice, and is very likely due to my own incompetency.
They can literally call the new spells "Conjure Animals (2024)" etc. then if it's such a problem. Means it won't affect 2014 edition content and only affect new 2024 edition content and nobody would have batted an eyelash at that. There's a million an 1 solutions to this problem and they've chosen the worst out of all of them
Well put FrostedPhoenix we should send you into the WOTC offices as our representative on this matter
I am certainly not the most eloquent voice on this matter, and I've had my fair share of visceral, emotional outbursts in this and other threads, but at the end of the day I feel it is important to clearly and concisely demonstrate the problem, define the most common objections to the decisions being made, and present possible solutions to these issues for consideration.
While the cynic in me feels like we are all simply yelling into a deep dark abyss of capitalistic greed and stock prices, I've seen what the D&D community at large can do when we all collectively balk at monumentally moronic decisions being made by those so high up in the organization they have lost all semblance of relations to their core userbase.
I have several 5e campaigns here using the 2014 rules that I DM and a few more that I play in. I have well over 100 characters built. About half are NPCs for those campaigns and about a quarter are Pre-Gens for new players to try when I do introduction games.
Most of these campaigns are not finished and we do not want to switch to the 2024 rules until the campaigns are finished. Nor do I have any desire to implement it piece meal we did that with 3e and 3.5. I want to be able to see all three books and gauge the full changes and balance together which I cannot do until 2025 then make a decision about whether we want to use those rules or wait until the respective campaign is over.
I did not buy the books for the compendium portion I bought them for the ease of managing and building characters while my players had access to the descriptions in their character sheets. That is the primary use for this site. Not an e-library. That library is secondary, useful but not why I came to the site. I purchased it for the functionality in the character builder and organizing my campaigns.
I encouraged my players and other DMs to use the site for that functionality. But now content we are using for that functionality is taken away against what was and is the statement for purchasing as we have. I have no interest in piecing together another mish-mash of rules or having to recreate material I paid to use initially through a homebrew or watch as certain builds get broken.
You have the legacy system.
I asked about a toggle for 2014 and 2024 so this very thing wouldn't be a problem. There was silence and I became concerned. I asked and there were vague answers. I will even grant that the mods didn't know and they were are now in a horrible position to manage another decision that is snowballing.
I remained concerned but was willing to wait. I had hoped we would get the toggle to allow a choice. That whoever made the call would see the value in not disrupting why this website is useful. Especially for those of us who have spent several hundred if not above a thousand dollars on buying the ability to use the toolset/character builder. I prefer the physical books and I have played since 1974 but for managing characters and campaigns this made my work as a DM easier and I paid for that. To have what I paid for removed without consent is violating, disappointing, and has me considering actually ending playing DnD during what should be the pinnacle year for the game.
I ordered the 2024 books on faith given the original statement we'd still be able to play our 2014 games here as is. Then Jeremy's rhetoric started to change and that was concerning but nonetheless the legacy system had been implemented before. So I had faith that the consumer base wouldn't be screwed with. That the legacy system of some form would be implemented because it was understood what the function was for many on this site. Now, I just feel disappointed, and where I was interested in eventually reviewing the 2024 books I have little interest and I am currently telling all my players and fellow DMs to pull copies of their characters. Our enjoyment of this game has been undermined because all of us are hard working people who chose to spend our money to use this tool for all portions of the 2014 rules. If we decided we want to use it for the 2024 rules, after we purchase them, that should be our choice. We paid for the product, we paid to be able to use the product and as many have said they want to finish their campaigns using the 2014 rules as there is a balance there that is understood.
It's not like the functionality isn't there. It's been done. Legacy and toggles.
If we are truly being listened to, don't sit there and break people's characters and make more work for them to run their campaigns. Use the tools you have in the legacy system and toggles. It may actually garner good will and bring more over to the 2024 rules rather than this tide that is snowballing where people are now being turned off.
Please bring this to whomever needs to actually see it to make the decision. It has been said that those who are content never speak out and remain silent and normally I agree with this but there is also a caveat to that you need to be aware of the actual change and as others have said in this case there are a number of users who are going to be rather confused on the 3rd because this was quietly stated in a way most would miss and confusion usually leads to anger. You cannot count those who were unaware as being part of the silent satisfied majority.
I've been here over six years and bought everything official and most third party materials. Even the Monsters of Drakkenheim I went with the VTT option for here but now I'm not sure whether I want to use this as my primary platform. I hope minds will change as the community continues to express itself and those who have the ability actually hear the community.
Clarifying statement that doesn't mention the thing that annoyed people most. I feel bad for the community team.
Either give people a better option than homebrew all the old spells or be forced to use the new ruleset.
Other sites are doing this very well right now. If you can't copy their homework quickly just say your working on it.
Potentially even just label the older the older magic items and spells with legacy.
Fireball (legacy) the tooltip then aims at the legacy spell.
I feel Beyond is close to being able to make this right.
This whole thing annoyed me so much I cancelled my master Sub and I am now not getting the new books which I was going to preorder on payday.
This.
After the OGl debacle this picture sums up pretty much how I feel looking at these 'updates' and my trust is at an ultimate low. Saying we should create homebrew option of all the things is insane, especially since there is a very high chance that you will limit the amount of homebrew an account can have, unless you get a subscription. Might not happen now, but I simply don't believe it will stay that way in the future.
I also think it is so disrespectful to all your customers and the DM's and Players, who's sessions, campaigns are being influenced by these 'updates'. The least you could have done was give a better heads up about it so people had time to adjust, instead of breaking your promise that we would be able to play the same way if we choose to keep playing with older content.
@dndbeyond, it's simple, use a toggle 2014 rules, 2024 rules. Listen to your customers.
You're provably wrong, as we've seen them do this exact thing before. Legacy versions of races exist that were changed and re-released in MToF. So they could easily flag the 2014 versions as "Legacy" content and let players pick which ruleset to create them under.
If I wanted the 2014 content as a static pdf I would have found a copy online and downloaded it. I did not pirate it because I wanted to use the content via the character sheets (and I did not have the time or inclination to homebrew it).
I purchased other content here for the convenience of using that through the online tools provided here, which I paid a subscription to use.
Our player groups have decided not to update our current campaigns to 2024 but you have made that impossible.
Our only option to continue our current D&D sessions online and under our preferred rule set and is to take our business elsewhere.
There is no point in paying for a subscription that no longer does what we desire it to do, the sharing of our 2014 content playable through the convenience of dndbeyond characters.
Your vtt maps is an inferior product to all your competitors and holds no fascination for us and we have no interest in your D&D WoW (Sigil).
So if you don’t allow us access to the context we paid for, through the convenience of access via the character sheets, then why would we stay?
Master tier subscription no longer.
how many people here have canceled their pre orders and subscriptions because of this? i know i have tho if it gets fixed ill go back and get them
I've had a master tier subscription here for quite a while, I've purchased books for (to me) an ungodly amount of money simple because of the convenience of the character builder.
My friends and I have used this site to build our characters for every campaign I've played in since I found it.
If all of a sudden, all the characters I play won't have access to all the spells and items (that I've paid for) from the 2014 books then why the hell should I keep using this site?
"You can look it up on the compendi..." I BOUGHT THE BOOKS ON THIS SITE SO THAT I WOULDN'T HAVE TO CROSS REFERENCE A BOOK EVERY DAMN TIME I WANTED TO LOOK UP MY CHARACTER TRAITS, SPELLS AND ITEMS, AND NOW YOU WANT ME TO ANYWAY?
As a software dev myself, I simply do not see how it's so damn hard to just implement a toggle for which content to access in my character sheet.
Backup and adding in tags on a website doesn't take a week to do. They shouldn't have needed any feedback, this should have been a given.
I had not yet pre ordered and now I definitely am not going to.
By defaulting existing character sheets to new versions of these spells and not just making them available. You are now making an extra hoop for your players to jump through to use the characters they have been playing in some cases for years. We use these virtual tools to make our lives easier. We invest in them to make our games smoother. It makes no sense to add unnecessary hurdles to players who haven’t moved and it feels coercive in its implementation for those not ready to move and use the new content yet. This was not the seamless experience we were promised.
Same here, was about to pre-order the whole package, until it became apparent that I could not use any of the 2014 books in the character sheet. So the whole reason for buying the books here (I already had a hardcover version at home) is being removed, I say refund should be in order...
I'll just say this: let me use 2014 rules in my character sheet or provide me a refund for the books I own. I paid for years for a service you are now ending. I bought the books here because it allowed me to easily have them accessible in a character sheet generator. I paid for that. I didn't and don't plan to buy the new 2024 books. That's not the service I want. If you are forcing me to use new content, the content I'm not interested, then I won't continue to pay for the service.
I rejected dndONE. I rejected dnd2024. I want to play 5e, so let me play 5e. If you won't, ill go back to using xcel sheets. Simple as.
It's not that a "significant majority" doesn't want the 2024 ruleset. That seems like an oversimplification. Many folks -- maybe even the majority of those voicing their concerns -- have stated that they planned to buy the new books, or planned to adopt the rules
I would say the main issue is having those rule changes forced on people who are still in the middle of campaigns, without even giving them a chance to review those changes first
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Please dont call it "semantics" and getting away like the whole community expresing their dislike to the automatic changes is nothing. This is a game, you are right calling out people lossing their manners literally for a game. But please ear your community.