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I'm just really flabberghasted by the "I bought multiple copies already" and "WotC has to stop this mentality that their products... are some how worth buying over and over again" comments coming from the same sources.
Like, if it's not worth paying to have the content again/differently, how'd you end up buying more than one copy in the first place?
Here is the real issue... WotC as an organization doesn't have a digital strategy for D&D. They have licensing agreements with different companies but no real consumer based approach for D&D outside of hard copy books and materials.
I'm not saying this to be difficult, I'm saying this with intimate knowledge of how the company works as an ex employee. What I have seen from DDB provides me hope that potentially curse can assist WotC in creating a consumer based digital strategy moving forward.
Will this partnership solve the issues with multiple digital licensing agreements in the past or the fact that WotC should have thought about digital use of their product during release...it won't. Can anything be done to make DDB solvent against all the work they have done and will do into the future if they offer non SRD content for "free"...no.
We have to just accept WotC, like most companies, isn't perfect and they fraked up. They created a damn good edition with no digital strategy on anything other than what they had done before.
I for one plan to embrace the partnership between curse and WotC as something that will make my life easier as a DM, player and enthusiast.
It sucks. It isn't fair. But it is damn exciting.
I'd caution both sides of the argument (including some mods) that approaching this from a "I can't believe other people have different opinions than me!" or "If you don't / do like Y, then you're X" position only reduces the conversation to an "us vs them" mentality which will only entrench positions and spark more emotional responses.
As a fairly new player who started out with the Basic Rules because the physical books are expensive, I'm delighted at the pricing and the fact that everything's integrated and homebrew friendly. I'm looking forward to the changes to be made regarding the issues and complaints posted in the beta feedback threads, as well as being able to have character sheets and rulebooks with me without having to bring hardcover books and a bunch of paper. Table space is not always readily available, and I'd rather use it to roll dice than store literature. It sucks that some people feel like they're being screwed, but nobody's paid for this particular product yet, as far as I know.
If I live in France and already bought the books in English, but they later published them in French, I shouldn't have to pay for them again, right? WotC should have had a better foreign language plan from the start. It's the same content and I already paid for it, so it's fleecing/wrong/offensive for them to make me pay for the same content again. Right? :)
I've never seen a game that gave me Xbox, PS4, and PC all in a single package. I don't recall ever seeing bundle discounts or codes that let me get one platform if I already had another either. As far as I can tell if I want to play Battlefront 2 on Xbox and also want to play it on PC then it's going to cost me $60 for PC plus $60 for Xbox. If I want PS4 also I don't see any discounts so it will be another $60. This does not surprise me in the least. It's been how games are sold for decades.
Why are people so surprised that the paper books and the Roll20 and the Fantasy Grounds and the D&D Beyond versions are all separate purchases without any discounts or freebies or codes the same way that buying other games is? Nobody in a position to promise you otherwise has ever promised you otherwise. People keep acting like it's some great injustice or some big lie or trick or trap when it's not—it's entirely a dissonance between reality and their unrealistic expectations that ignore actual historical evidence (such as simply looking at how FG and R20 have been priced).
Yes they're expensive. Yes owning all the platforms is out of my price range. Yes my local game stores will lose some of my sales. Yes that kind of sucks. Am I surprised? No. That would be like being surprised that I fell back to the ground after jumping into the air. Am I outraged? No more than I'm outraged that my D&D books aren't delivered by dragon riding gnomes. Why are people wasting their emotional investment in being outraged by something that was as predictable as the color of the grass—and comparably insignificant—when there are actual injustices in the world that need this level of outrage and vitriol directed at them?
What happens when D&D 6e gets released? I assume it will do at some point in the future. Will D&DB updated with 6e, or will it have a separate UI for both 5e and 6e that doesn't intermingle with each other?
@Fabled_Alpaca
The 4th edition was released in 2007 as I remember and ran up until 2012 when playtesting was started for 5th, now I didn't like 4th so I didn't really follow it but from what I understand it basically had a production run somewhere around 7 years. In all realistic assumptions at the current rate of technological growth, any existing toolset now (DDB) will be outdated within 5 years.The basic premise and assumption being that when D&D 6th edition begins playtesting this mode of the interface will likely have been updated multiple times already or will be completely outdated. For an example look up any web page designed in the early 90's.
*Edited for typographical and grammar errors.
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I think that 5th edition is likely to last a good deal longer than 4th edition though.
Many lessons were learned from 3.5e & 4e, as these are cited by Wizards when discussing release strategies for 5e.
I don't think we can really use the history of the game to predict the time that 5e will have to run, before 6e either. Let's take a look at the history. There's also company history, which is relevant and I have included.
I think we can safely ignore anything pre- WotC with regards looking at trending.
Some of the designers of 5th edition have said that WotC have learned from 3.5e that they just released too much content too quickly and this hurt the game, as well as their ability to continue to support it, which is why there is a slower release strategy for 5e.
It's not surprising that 5e came fairly soon after 4e, as 4e had a fairly low uptake within the roleplay community.
TL;DR - I think we have many years left of 5e, before looking at 6e. Furthermore, I think if there is a 6e, that there's likely to be 2-3 years of playtesting, meaning sites like D&D Beyond have a good amount of time to decide on a strategy for moving forward then (ie. they don't need one now).
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Eshuvenniel Kazander Ravid, Valor Bard and Acolyte of the Goddess of Luck
Caradoc Langham, Halfling Rogue - Lost Magics - Epic of Pre-made Proportions!
I'm not looking for heaven or hell... just someone to listen to stories I tell...
What's really odd about the people who were so negative about 4e is that those very same people praise aspects of 5e that are directly taken from 4e. I think, much like the backlash here on pricing, people just love to jump on bandwagons. I'm fairly positive that DDB will do well and those people who complained the most will end up buying the books and subscribing, once it becomes popular to do so.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Eshuvenniel Kazander Ravid, Valor Bard and Acolyte of the Goddess of Luck
Caradoc Langham, Halfling Rogue - Lost Magics - Epic of Pre-made Proportions!
I'm not looking for heaven or hell... just someone to listen to stories I tell...
Hi, DnD Beyond Staff
As far as I understood from the announcement about the prices and date of release for DnD Beyond, I am excited for what is coming. However I would like to share some doubts with you; I guess they are pretty simple to be answered.
I ask because when I bought the standard subscription from Fantasy Grounds (through STEAM) I got some libraries including the DM and Players basic rules, some library for monsters, NPC, etc which is pretty good for the starts.
I can create characters using Fantasy Grounds without any problem and all content for that is available for me as if I had the PHB available there, because that came with my subscription (I bought the Standard subscription one-time-pricing in which I paid CAD$33.00 through STEAM)
Nowadays we have almost everything like that for free in DnD Beyond with some exceptions for instance, if you want to create a War Cleric, that domain is not available (but it will be when the paid version is released).
My points are:
Because if so, I can imagine if I pay Hero Tier and I need to buy those materials I will spend, only to play, $3.00/monthly + $20.00 (PHB) one-time pricing.
So, my initial investment as a DM (a decent one with all resources) would be $6.00 + $120.00 + $25.00 = $151.00.
If I have a group of 4 friends using Hero Tier, each of them will pay $3.00/monthly + $30.00 (PHB one-time price) only, because the other contents I, as a DM will be able to release to them for free during my campaign, is that correct?
So, the initial cost for playing a digital campaign in DnD Beyond for a group of friends (a party) with 1 DM + 4 players would be around $151.00 + 4 X $33.00 = $283.00. Is that correct?
Could you explain me how a group can use a Master subscription?
I do believe that we can have a lot of fun and resources when DnD Beyond releases everything and I intend to play and find "friends" around the world to share adventures, but I also would like to understand how much that is going to cost me.
Thanks a lot for your time and attention.
Sincerely,
Drakortex.
Drakortex, cleric of Bahamut.
hi Drakortex
I can answer one of the question: yes, to use any kind of material which is not included in a free source, you have to buy it either buying the entire source book (PHB for example) or a small bundle (detail on this has been given on this thread, but more will come).
For the master tier too, more details will come.
Hi Filcat,
Thanks for your reply. Well I will look through the threads. Let's see how it goes with the digital system. I hope at the end it does not get too expensive to play :-)
To be a DM, you will need some "bonus" cash.
Sincerely,
Drakortex.
Drakortex, cleric of Bahamut.
Eshuvenniel Kazander Ravid, Valor Bard and Acolyte of the Goddess of Luck
Caradoc Langham, Halfling Rogue - Lost Magics - Epic of Pre-made Proportions!
I'm not looking for heaven or hell... just someone to listen to stories I tell...
So I have liked what I've seen so far, it is fun, but I kind of asked this in another thread with no real response. It's almost like the question is being dodged which puts me in mind of sword coast legends...
what is the benefit for a DM to pay the heavy burden cost of this platform. I keep hearing character sheet this, character sheet that... but let's face it... without DMs, what good are the character sheets?
I'm a DM, and I'd like to think a damn good one. My research takes me all over the web - pdf's, pictures, note pads and word documents. I have all the hard copy books already, I know the material and use discord for game chat and text. From there I can also post pictures or links and private messages.
From a DMs perspective, you are not offering a lot here (from what I can see) to entice me to WANT to risk putting my money into this. Wizards of the coast has come off as atrocious with backing ventures... Sword coast legends springs to mind for one. Promise after promise, but at least the players do have a working copy of the game (for now)
So once we buy the digital copies of the books, are they ours to do as we please. Meaning, if I no longer want to pay a subscription, can I take these books into other mediums? What if the whole venture collapses (I really hope it doesn't) but what then with all the money we have spent? With hard copy books, Wizard could go belly up - but I could play on.
Aside from giving the "players" a free ride from the content a DM pays for, what is the point of a master subscription. I mean, what else is and will be offered at launch. Not promises, no road maps. What will DMs b able to do for their players that free programs or roll 20 can't?
i have no problem paying for content you guys create, I'm not looking for free - I'm looking for enticement. Map editor, combat tracker... generally things I can use as a DM to make my games better. If all you are offering is easy character sheets, information I already own and 3 word documents...
i want this program to work, I think it has promise and if at launch there is sufficient DM capabilities, I will have no problem paying for the content and a sub which allows my players ease of use, but there has to be massive functionality for me as a DM, as well as assurances the material I purchase is also mine. If in 2 months, this venture is bottoms up, I don't want to be out over 100 dollars... and again... promises are dust and air... at launch, the goods. I don't purchase half a game or half a car.