Ok cool, at least that is an answer to my question.

Launch is the information of books and an easy to use character editor and three text boxes and not much more. DMs can still use this for free and make whatever game they want - players who wish to play can purchase all the books and classes that they desire to build and it won't change a whit the capabilities of being the DM, since we will still be without the key elements of using online tools - such as map editor and combat tracker.

basically pay for quick referencing and easy character generation.

New players who don't own copies already of the books can purchase at that time the digital versions.

Thanks for the information 😊

Quote from DustinAshe >>

 It sounds like you want VTT. It seems to me that DDB is decidedly not that.

It's ironic that D&D 5e players have been calling for digital tools for years and now that they're here some of us are suddenly not sure if we want or need them.  I currently play 5e on FG (1 campaign, I am a basic member) and Roll20 (2 campaigns; I am a pro member) and live ( 1 campaign; I have every book and release).   As someone who was initially pining for digital tools for my live gaming, I am now less certain they are necessary or even desirable.  Putting all cost issues aside, the digital tools seem clunky and are just ok.  They are completely unnecessary for my FG and Roll20 games, since these systems are largely redundant.  The free SRD sheet on roll20 is probably better and more useful.  The major advantage is the convenience of online access to monster and magic item stats for my live games.  For me, an important feature was to be able to store, update, and print out my character sheet for my weekly live game. As of today, the system has been disappointingly unable to even to meet this minimal goal. I am not saying I am not going to sign up but I am hesitant and may wait to see if the tool improves as the months go on.  Unfortunately, by waiting I will lose the opportunity to purchase the PHB, MM, and DMG at a discounted price.  

Quote from Drakortex >>

 

If you like very much one campaign like Curse of Strahd and you play it at Fantasy Grounds, you have to play for that content there.  Just in case if you want to play the same adventure at DnD Beyond, probably you have to buy "again" the same content for that system.

It has been published multiple times that, if you own the content (either in hardback or Roll20 or FG) and you don't want to pay for it in DDB, you can enter however much of it you want into your private homebrew and use it here with your campaign.

Would be great if once have the WotC books, in digital media, we could use them in any platform/system because in the end of the day, those books are only a "bunch of data" in which the system extract the information to process in their "engines", nothing else than that.

It WotC doesn't need to do anything extra in their original digital books to be used for Roll20, Fantasy Grounds or DnD Beyond (that is what I think), so why should we pay for the same content in different systems? It is like a JPEG file that can be opened in Photoshop, Adobe Reader, Windows media, Finder (MAC) and etc.  Instead of bits with information of colours, the books have bits with information of "words" (poor comparison).

This is absolutely not what was given to Curse. Curse was given the Adobe InDesign files for each book.

 

Quote from Drakortex >>

Hi Koren,

Thanks for your reply.  Yes, it seems that the "game season" will be exciting with all costs/benefits and so on. I got, thanks to you and other friends in other forum sessions the idea for the full group within the Master subscription.

I only think it is going to be a little more expensive than I was expecting, I mean, the fees are pretty reasonable comparing to Roll20 and FG, in which I am a subscriber.  But at the end of the day, paying Fantasy Grounds, DnD Beyond and any other "system" that exists costs much more than having the old hard copy on our table.
[snip]
Would be great if once have the WotC books, in digital media, we could use them in any platform/system because in the end of the day, those books are only a "bunch of data" in which the system extract the information to process in their "engines", nothing else than that.

Quote from Aramalian >>

Quote from Drakimor >>

But you DO get to read your kindle copy on any device without re-buying it. You have purchased the content.

 That's right.

And I can access DDB from any device. I will purchase the content.

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

but what about all those bonus features like being able to search the text, not to mention all the other things the D&D Beyond tools can do with the data that a physical book just plain can't? Are those literally worthless? No, they aren't, so this whole idea that digital products must be treated as worth pennies on the dollar compared to physical copies is one that is not supported by sound logic.

Quote from IanDaTrapLord >>

Exactly! You can read your Kindle copy on any device through the Kindle app. If you buy a game through Steam, you can access that game on any device through the same Steam account.

You do not get a copy of the book for every ebook platform, and you do not get a copy of the game through every game distribution platform.

I have a Spotify account, so I can listen to a song on any device through Spotify. I don't get the song for free in iTunes because I already pay Spotify.

If you bought the books on r20 or FG, you don't automatically get them on DBB. 

Hi Koren,

Thank you again for the reply.  I try to understand both sides, companies and players, once I can say I work in the industry but I am also a player.

Anyway, I do believe WotC is going to offer a nice system to us.  Will it be perfect at the beginning? Maybe, but it is going to be better with time and corrections will be made as bugs and flaws will appear.

I will be there playing too and trying to "collaborate" in a positive way.  And let's wait for Tomb of Annihilation  :-)

Sign me up!!! Pricing seems totally reasonable... Looking forward to the digital copies of the modules, books etc... HotDQ?

GREAT JOB!!!

Quote from Drakimor >>

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

but what about all those bonus features like being able to search the text, not to mention all the other things the D&D Beyond tools can do with the data that a physical book just plain can't? Are those literally worthless? No, they aren't, so this whole idea that digital products must be treated as worth pennies on the dollar compared to physical copies is one that is not supported by sound logic.

Again... we ARE paying for all that... the monthly subscription fee. You are so busy trying to justify the value of the $20 you forget the $72 a year. Do I get a refund if I stop paying the monthly fee? No, it vanishes. For your analogy to fit the game store would have to charge me $3 a month for my book AFTER I paid them $40 and then come take it back if I stop paying. Don't know about you but I've never seen that happen :) Digital and physical are different, plain and simple.

If they want me to pay $20 for the digital book in this format and nothing else... sure, I'm all in. I'll happily cough that up.
If I paid a one time free and nothing else ever again, THEN it fits what you seem to want it to be. But that's not what is happening. 

They want a monthly fee for all you are describing AND a fee for the in the medium. Charge me one way or the other, not both.
Nothing you've pointed out justifies a double charge,  only a single. I have not once disagreed with the monthly fee, which covers your concern for profitability quite handily.

Quote from Drakimor >>

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

but what about all those bonus features like being able to search the text, not to mention all the other things the D&D Beyond tools can do with the data that a physical book just plain can't? Are those literally worthless? No, they aren't, so this whole idea that digital products must be treated as worth pennies on the dollar compared to physical copies is one that is not supported by sound logic.

Again... we ARE paying for all that... the monthly subscription fee. You are so busy trying to justify the value of the $20 you forget the $72 a year. Do I get a refund if I stop paying the monthly fee? No, it vanishes. For your analogy to fit the game store would have to charge me $3 a month for my book AFTER I paid them $40 and then come take it back if I stop paying. Don't know about you but I've never seen that happen :) Digital and physical are different, plain and simple.

If they want me to pay $20 for the digital book in this format and nothing else... sure, I'm all in. I'll happily cough that up.
If I paid a one time free and nothing else ever again, THEN it fits what you seem to want it to be. But that's not what is happening. 

They want a monthly fee for all you are describing AND a fee for the in the medium. Charge me one way or the other, not both.
Nothing you've pointed out justifies a double charge,  only a single. I have not once disagreed with the monthly fee, which covers your concern for profitability quite handily.

Nice job explaining that xuebao61

Quote from Drakimor >>

If they want me to pay $20 for the digital book in this format and nothing else... sure, I'm all in. I'll happily cough that up.

Then I am confused - why were you arguing against me when I said that paying for the digital books in D&D Beyond format was just like paying for another physical copy?

Saying you are happy to cough up $20 for the book runs completely contradictory to the earlier claims that WotC is "fleecing" customers.

That was the other problem, if you buy the books...they should be yours to do as you wish. If I purchase a hard copy, I can share that with my friends. But I can't share these books?

So unless I have a subscription these books are only good to me, and if I already own the books why would I want them again?

This is extortion plain and simple.

If they go belly up or stop production of this product... What are the players and people who've payed left with? Books only they can use? Or does that disappear too?

"You gotta pay for protection"

An option for 10 dollar a month subscription to all content would fix all of this.  Add that option to outright purchasing and the lower subscription for those that like that option. But with no DM tools on launch and the feeling of being extorted...  Not cool. Not cool at all. And there are a lot of streams and reviews of like minded people.

Again, I will base my desicion on what to do at launch, but I have to tell you, it doesn't look or feel promising 

...

Quote from Ikerus >>

That was the other problem, if you buy the books...they should be yours to do as you wish. If I purchase a hard copy, I can share that with my friends. But I can't share these books?

So unless I have a subscription these books are only good to me, and if I already own the books why would I want them again?

This is extortion plain and simple.

If they go belly up or stop production of this product... What are the players and people who've payed left with? Books only they can use? Or does that disappear too?

"You gotta pay for protection"

 

An option for 10 dollar a month subscription to all content would fix all of this.  Add that option to outright purchasing and the lower subscription for those that like that option. But with no DM tools on launch and the feeling of being extorted...  Not cool. Not cool at all. And there are a lot of streams and reviews of like minded people.

 

Again, I will base my desicion on what to do at launch, but I have to tell you, it doesn't look or feel promising 

Quote from Ikerus >>

...extortion...

What force or threats are being used to coerce you into paying?

So. 

1. The books are within $5 of what I expected. 
2. The subscriptions are cheaper than I expected. 
3. The individual content costs about what I expected. 
4. I still can't afford a subscription, but I'll probably be buying the books. 
5. I would like very much to be able to pay a one-time fee for the benefits of a subscription. 
6. If I have a Master Tier subscription and I'm DMing for more than 12 people with free memberships, can I buy more Campaign Sharing Slots? 
7. Why did you pin yourselves down to a specific date when doing so runs counter to all previous D&D Beyond company policy (very well thought out, logical, sensible policy) and you don't exactly have anything resembling a working Phase 3 yet? 
8. Will there be a discount on mass purchases, such as a 12-month subscription? 
9. Will the book purchases come with printable PDFs, by any chance? 
10. Will there be an option to buy the PHB, DMG, MM, VGtM, XGtE when it comes out, and the "rules" content from SCAG and the adventures?  A "Low-
    Lore" or "Lore-Light" bundle? 

I can't remember the other stuff I was going to ask. 

Quote from Drakimor >>

Quote from IanDaTrapLord >>

Exactly! You can read your Kindle copy on any device through the Kindle app. If you buy a game through Steam, you can access that game on any device through the same Steam account.

You do not get a copy of the book for every ebook platform, and you do not get a copy of the game through every game distribution platform.

I have a Spotify account, so I can listen to a song on any device through Spotify. I don't get the song for free in iTunes because I already pay Spotify.

If you bought the books on r20 or FG, you don't automatically get them on DBB. 

Your analogy proves my point.
I pay a Spotify subscription. I do NOT pay for songs. My subscription fee covers all content inside their system but no rights to it outside of their service.
When I buy from iTunes I am buying the content, I own it, and can move it to other platforms. I can listen to my mp3 on any device or player that supports them, and do. I usually listen on Apple devices but have moved the collection to other players from time to time. I also do not pay again next month.

When I buy a Kindle book there are no other charges. I get access to it in perpetuity for free.
If I buy Kindle unlimited I get access to a ton of books so long as I pay the monthly fee, I own none of them and loose access when I stop. No problem.

These are two different models, and I am fine with both. I am not fine when someone combines them.
Imagine how far Spotify would get charging $10 a month AND $2 a song. That's exactly what we are talking about here. Think their board would have a few irate customers too? :)

It's simple really, the sub is for the service. If you want to buy the materials and THEN the service to use those materials you purchased, feel free... I would rather pay a subscription and have access to everything instead of me forking over a pile of money to gain content I already own... Because from the sounds of it, I might have the DM guide... But unless i pay the top subscription I can only really play with other players who own the Dm guide... Unless of course they want to buy each item at 1.99.... sounds an awful lot like extortion to me. "Buy our material... Oh snap! You can't use it with other people unless you pay us more money each month though."

So... the simplicity is this....instead of me forking over a pile of my money for a product  I don't own and can't use with other players and have no indication of it's future and unless I pay a higher  subscription... I'm saying, let me pay as I go and see where this whole endevor leads.  I would rather pay for what I might use, than finding out all this is one big crap shoot... If I stop in 2 months because they don't make good on any promises... I'm out 100+ dollars plus the sub. But if I'm only doing pay as you go, they can do what they like with their content and it's not a big loss. 

But hey... I have these magical  beans.. they're  yours... cheap.  And! I'll only charge you 3 dollars a day to use the magic water that goes with them.  If you like flushing money down the toilet in bad or risky investments be my guest.  I'll stick with my hard copy books (which I have purchased and get to keep) if I purchase the book's they should be able to use with all my players and get rid of the sub. I'm saying one.... Or the other... Not both. Because really, what is the sub for? And if we have a sub... What is the purchase for?