For the foreseeable future I will Not be endorsing D&D Beyond. Two Reasons:  1) For full functionality I must Re-Purchase a digital edition of the core books at the same cost as a Hard-Cover that I already own. Lets Face It .. the digital version is basically a pdf. Normally when you buy a hardcover of anything anywhere you get the pdf for free or at most about 1/2 price.  And 2)  Where is my guarantee of participation if I buy in to D&D Beyond? If I re-buy the core books and set up a subscription, then what?  I'm waiting for the shake down before I dump my earnings into this. My 2 cp.

Quote from Sundog >>

For the foreseeable future I will Not be endorsing D&D Beyond. Two Reasons:  1) For full functionality I must Re-Purchase a digital edition of the core books at the same cost as a Hard-Cover that I already own. Lets Face It .. the digital version is basically a pdf. Normally when you buy a hardcover of anything anywhere you get the pdf for free or at most about 1/2 price.  And 2)  Where is my guarantee of participation if I buy in to D&D Beyond? If I re-buy the core books and set up a subscription, then what?  I'm waiting for the shake down before I dump my earnings into this. My 2 cp.

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

Quote from Mordiceius >>

What about the DM's that can't afford a bunch of books? That's why there needs to be a $10 or $15 subscription that just gives you access to everything.

 Nah, it's not up to Curse to help those of us (myself, as an example) that don't have a lot of budget available for gaming materials to figure out how we can get around to having the things we want to have.

If a person can afford $10 or $15 a month, then that person can save that money each month and make purchases when they have saved up enough to get something - and thanks to the pricing going on with D&D Beyond, eventually they'll be able to have everything and it won't be taken away should they want to spend their $10 or $15 a month on something else.

And in the long term, the current pricing actually saves a person money compared to continuing a $10 or $15 monthly payment.

Really, this option you present as "more affordable" isn't - unless of course a person were somehow to cheat the system and get long-term access without actually paying for it.

Quote from Sundog >>

...the same cost as a Hard-Cover that I already own. ...Normally when you buy a hardcover of anything anywhere you get the pdf for free or at most about 1/2 price.

These two parts of your statement stick out as bending the facts.

First, because if what you paid for a hard-cover book was even close to as low as the D&D Beyond prices, you bought them from a source that doesn't include PDFs - free or discounted - even for the books that do have them on the market. (i.e. you bought from Amazon, and if you buy Pathfinder books from Amazon you don't get a PDF).

And secondly because it's really not even close to "anything anywhere" that PDFs are thrown in with hard-copy purchases for free or at a discount; it's only when buying directly from the company selling the game books, and even then it isn't really as much of a discount as it appears because they are charging the same price as the book would have if it arrived at a book and mortar store after being sold to a distributor, re-sold to the store, and marked with a high enough price to make the store a profit on the sale - so the company in question is actually getting a lot larger percentage of the price you pay for their own profit than they do from copies bought elsewhere.

Illustrative scenario: I used to work in food service, and this guy asked me to "hook him up" with some extras and slipped me some cash. He has the illusion that I did just that and gave him "free food" along with his order, but the reality - because it would have gotten me fired to do that - was that I quietly rang up the extras he perceived as free and paid for them with the cash he slipped me. The point being; he feels like he got freebies, but the reality is that he paid for it - just like when you buy a hard-copy from a source that gets you a "free" PDF.

Quote from Mordiceius >>

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

Quote from Mordiceius >>

What about the DM's that can't afford a bunch of books? That's why there needs to be a $10 or $15 subscription that just gives you access to everything.

 Nah, it's not up to Curse to help those of us (myself, as an example) that don't have a lot of budget available for gaming materials to figure out how we can get around to having the things we want to have.

If a person can afford $10 or $15 a month, then that person can save that money each month and make purchases when they have saved up enough to get something - and thanks to the pricing going on with D&D Beyond, eventually they'll be able to have everything and it won't be taken away should they want to spend their $10 or $15 a month on something else.

And in the long term, the current pricing actually saves a person money compared to continuing a $10 or $15 monthly payment.

Really, this option you present as "more affordable" isn't - unless of course a person were somehow to cheat the system and get long-term access without actually paying for it.

"It's not a company's job to cater to me, the customer" is a bad way to think. It doesn't matter whether it is "more affordable in the long term" or not. It's a matter of giving options to customers.

So what about a group people who are new to the hobby, don't have any of the books, and can't afford shelling out a bunch of money for books up front? Your solution is "Welp, guess you don't get to play Dungeons and Dragons, come back when you have saved up for a few months." That's a really bad way to grow the hobby and actively hostile towards some players..

 

Quote from Eldritch_Song >>

Quote from Mordiceius >>

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

Quote from Mordiceius >>

What about the DM's that can't afford a bunch of books? That's why there needs to be a $10 or $15 subscription that just gives you access to everything.

 Nah, it's not up to Curse to help those of us (myself, as an example) that don't have a lot of budget available for gaming materials to figure out how we can get around to having the things we want to have.

If a person can afford $10 or $15 a month, then that person can save that money each month and make purchases when they have saved up enough to get something - and thanks to the pricing going on with D&D Beyond, eventually they'll be able to have everything and it won't be taken away should they want to spend their $10 or $15 a month on something else.

And in the long term, the current pricing actually saves a person money compared to continuing a $10 or $15 monthly payment.

Really, this option you present as "more affordable" isn't - unless of course a person were somehow to cheat the system and get long-term access without actually paying for it.

"It's not a company's job to cater to me, the customer" is a bad way to think. It doesn't matter whether it is "more affordable in the long term" or not. It's a matter of giving options to customers.

So what about a group people who are new to the hobby, don't have any of the books, and can't afford shelling out a bunch of money for books up front? Your solution is "Welp, guess you don't get to play Dungeons and Dragons, come back when you have saved up for a few months." That's a really bad way to grow the hobby and actively hostile towards some players..

 

 The SRD rules, which are freely available, are more than enough to "play D&D". If a subscription unlocked all of the content, literally nothing would stop you from paying $15 once and then printing out all of the books and adventures.

A company has a responsibility also to respect their own intellectual property and make a profit off their work.

My personal problem, and I imagine the problem many have, is that I already shelled out full price for digital copies of the books on other media like Roll20 and/or Fantasy Grounds that aren't transferable to any other medium. This is just the same thing for slightly less money and with far less functionality than comes native to those other platforms. If the licensing worked out so that you only had to pay for books once and could take your digital copies between platforms, then that's fine and the argument just turns to "I could have saved $20 by buying on Beyond."

That's why people are saying their attitude would be different if the subscription covered all the published material without additional cost.

TY for the response. Ok, integration and hyperlinks, woohoo! As a matter of fact I *can* argue about the fairness of pricing given the integration and hyperlinks of the officially sponsored product. But I wont .. yet. I would much rather make friends than enemies =)

Quote from Sillvva >>

Quote from Mordiceius >>

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

Quote from Mordiceius >>

What about the DM's that can't afford a bunch of books? That's why there needs to be a $10 or $15 subscription that just gives you access to everything.

 Nah, it's not up to Curse to help those of us (myself, as an example) that don't have a lot of budget available for gaming materials to figure out how we can get around to having the things we want to have.

If a person can afford $10 or $15 a month, then that person can save that money each month and make purchases when they have saved up enough to get something - and thanks to the pricing going on with D&D Beyond, eventually they'll be able to have everything and it won't be taken away should they want to spend their $10 or $15 a month on something else.

And in the long term, the current pricing actually saves a person money compared to continuing a $10 or $15 monthly payment.

Really, this option you present as "more affordable" isn't - unless of course a person were somehow to cheat the system and get long-term access without actually paying for it.

"It's not a company's job to cater to me, the customer" is a bad way to think. It doesn't matter whether it is "more affordable in the long term" or not. It's a matter of giving options to customers.

So what about a group people who are new to the hobby, don't have any of the books, and can't afford shelling out a bunch of money for books up front? Your solution is "Welp, guess you don't get to play Dungeons and Dragons, come back when you have saved up for a few months." That's a really bad way to grow the hobby and actively hostile towards some players..

 

 Welcome to expensive hobbies

Quote from Mordiceius >>

Quote from Sillvva >>

Quote from Mordiceius >>

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

Quote from Mordiceius >>

What about the DM's that can't afford a bunch of books? That's why there needs to be a $10 or $15 subscription that just gives you access to everything.

 Nah, it's not up to Curse to help those of us (myself, as an example) that don't have a lot of budget available for gaming materials to figure out how we can get around to having the things we want to have.

If a person can afford $10 or $15 a month, then that person can save that money each month and make purchases when they have saved up enough to get something - and thanks to the pricing going on with D&D Beyond, eventually they'll be able to have everything and it won't be taken away should they want to spend their $10 or $15 a month on something else.

And in the long term, the current pricing actually saves a person money compared to continuing a $10 or $15 monthly payment.

Really, this option you present as "more affordable" isn't - unless of course a person were somehow to cheat the system and get long-term access without actually paying for it.

"It's not a company's job to cater to me, the customer" is a bad way to think. It doesn't matter whether it is "more affordable in the long term" or not. It's a matter of giving options to customers.

So what about a group people who are new to the hobby, don't have any of the books, and can't afford shelling out a bunch of money for books up front? Your solution is "Welp, guess you don't get to play Dungeons and Dragons, come back when you have saved up for a few months." That's a really bad way to grow the hobby and actively hostile towards some players..

 

 Welcome to expensive hobbies

 "Deal with it" is a bad response and not good for growing the community. 

Quote from Josef >>

Quote from Fjw70 >>

Quote from Weaver0fTales >>

Sadly not everyone has the funds to spend on a second pair of books. It would be wise for dnd beyond to take a look at some of the complaints of its followers. this is an online tool set after all and there are ways of creating an income other than subs or outright large piles of cash being handed over. I love dnd and i love to support projects such as this but i must learn to live within my means. So dnd should have a mode for us poor college folks that depend on ad revenue that way we can enjoy the game and still support the devs.

 

They have you covered. There is a free sub with ads that has access to all the SRD data, plus you can buy individual elements (e.g. Races and classes) if the books are too much. So you can ease into the broader content if you want. 

 or add it on your own via the homebrew section.

You might as well go all in if you are thinking about add-on elements to the SRD. By the time you include everything you want it will be cheaper to just Re-Buy like they want you to.

I have put off buying things like Volo's Guide and Yawning Portal etc. to see where this resource was going, what value it will add to my table, and of course the price-point of the sub tiers. $6.00 a month for Master Tier is a far lower sub cost than I had expected. I own physical copies of the 3 core books. I paid about $105.00 US dollars for all three of them from a local gaming shop, yet I will most likely take advantage of the reduced price at launch. Seriously, it's the difference between $35-40 per book vs $20 per book at launch. You wanted a discount for previously purchased books, there it is.

One question I do have about Master Tier and being able to share the content with my players: I am the DM of my group. It's my lot in life and I have accepted that I might not ever actually play again lol. However, say one of my players wants to run a one off adventure. Would there be a way for them to access some of the resources I have at my disposal to DM said one off? If so, that would be absolutely amazing! If not, I would like to submit the idea for consideration. Otherwise, I do own the core books and nothing is stopping me from letting them borrow my books... other than my extremely over protective nature of books...

I've seen some people suggest future WOTC books be printed with digital copy codes. I may have even said something about it elsewhere in the forums, or at least thought about it. However, I work for a printing company. I know the cost of variable data printing, at least what we charge for it. The set up isn't really the cost issue, it's the printing. Each page containing the unique code for the digital copy or discount would be a unique click from the main run of the book. I don't think it would be cost effective for WOTC to do that.

Buy The Ticket, Take The Ride

Quote from Sundog >>

For the foreseeable future I will Not be endorsing D&D Beyond. Two Reasons:  1) For full functionality I must Re-Purchase a digital edition of the core books at the same cost as a Hard-Cover that I already own. Lets Face It .. the digital version is basically a pdf. Normally when you buy a hardcover of anything anywhere you get the pdf for free or at most about 1/2 price.  And 2)  Where is my guarantee of participation if I buy in to D&D Beyond? If I re-buy the core books and set up a subscription, then what?  I'm waiting for the shake down before I dump my earnings into this. My 2 cp.

Quote from TheGoodKingAzalin >>

You wanted a discount for previously purchased books, there it is.

Quote from Mordiceius >>

1) "It's not a company's job to cater to me, the customer" is a bad way to think. 2) It doesn't matter whether it is "more affordable in the long term" or not.

3) So what about a group people who are new to the hobby, don't have any of the books, and can't afford shelling out a bunch of money for books up front? Your solution is "Welp, guess you don't get to play Dungeons and Dragons, come back when you have saved up for a few months." That's a really bad way to grow the hobby and actively hostile towards some players..

 

Even someone without a cent to their name can play D&D completely for free.  The Basic Rules, SRD, Elemental Evil Player's Companion are all free and the Basic Rules and SRD provide everything you need to play.  All this free content is available for free in DND Beyond, and it will stay that way. In addition, WOTC has put out all the Planeshift guides for free along with various other free material, including free guidance like the Sage Advice Compendium. Moreover, WOTC has provided all the free Unearthed Arcana material, and while it may not be official play-tested material for use in a tournament, it provides a wealth of free spells, free feats, free new subraces, new archetypes, new classes, and other game mechanics--you can use whatever works for your campaign.  Then, there is all the free material put out by independent publishers, game enthusiasts, and the huge amount of free content (separate from all the paid content) that you can download from the DM Guild website.  Plus, as already stated in the forum, even for the premium content on DND Beyond, you only pay for what you want, and you can even only purchase specific sections of material if that is all you need--e.g. if you just want paid content on Barbarians, you can just purchase that section.  Also, for the kick-off all three of the full core books will be priced at $20 each, which is less than two movie tickets per book.  They also structured it so that a DM can share the content they paid for with all the players in a campaign without everyone having to separately pay for the material (and if that is "unfair" to the DM, then you can always have your players chip in toward the cost since they are benefiting). 

Your comparing wants to needs.  Premium content for D&D is a want--it is entertainment.  How many people pay for Netflix, cable tv, video game consoles and video games, movie tickets, go out occasionally for dinner or drinks, etc.?  I am not talking about affluent people, just ordinary working people purchase this sort of entertainment.  So, the DND Beyond premium material is just one more entertainment option.  If it is worth it to you, then you can either choose to purchase it instead of spending your money on other entertainment options, or you can save up for  it.  If it is not worth it to you, then you can enjoy all the free material and still play the game.  I think Curse and WOTC did their best to provide a wide-range of pricing options, but at some point, they need to earn a return on their investment.  They are for-profit ventures, not charitable organizations.  People need to be realistic about what is fair pricing.  

Hello, all, 

I had a question about the sourcebooks.  I have not purchase anything with D&D 5e yet - while I have liked what I have read, I just haven't had a group to run with.  My friends and I though have decided we wanted to run the Princes of the Apocalypse online.  The debut of D&D Beyond is a great thing thing for us.  As I am the DM, I will most likely grab the the three core books for the game and a DM Subscription.  My question though is if I buy the Princes of the Apocalypse book will it transfer over to something like Fantasy Grounds or Roll20 or will I be able to run the adventure through D&D Beyond?  Or is it just a way to put items and equipment that you find in the book on to your character sheet?

Thank you!

Quote from Mordiceius >>

Quote from Sillvva >>

Quote from Mordiceius >>

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

Quote from Mordiceius >>

What about the DM's that can't afford a bunch of books? That's why there needs to be a $10 or $15 subscription that just gives you access to everything.

 Nah, it's not up to Curse to help those of us (myself, as an example) that don't have a lot of budget available for gaming materials to figure out how we can get around to having the things we want to have.

If a person can afford $10 or $15 a month, then that person can save that money each month and make purchases when they have saved up enough to get something - and thanks to the pricing going on with D&D Beyond, eventually they'll be able to have everything and it won't be taken away should they want to spend their $10 or $15 a month on something else.

And in the long term, the current pricing actually saves a person money compared to continuing a $10 or $15 monthly payment.

Really, this option you present as "more affordable" isn't - unless of course a person were somehow to cheat the system and get long-term access without actually paying for it.

"It's not a company's job to cater to me, the customer" is a bad way to think. It doesn't matter whether it is "more affordable in the long term" or not. It's a matter of giving options to customers.

So what about a group people who are new to the hobby, don't have any of the books, and can't afford shelling out a bunch of money for books up front? Your solution is "Welp, guess you don't get to play Dungeons and Dragons, come back when you have saved up for a few months." That's a really bad way to grow the hobby and actively hostile towards some players..

 

 Welcome to expensive hobbies

 "Deal with it" is a bad response and not good for growing the community.