I would consider the stats of all characters and give all of them something that could benefit each of them. The manuals/tomes are some ideas, there's also items like belts of giant strength and headbands of intellect.
Or possibly just a free feat / ASI.
Let's say it's a time-skip of 6 months to a year. They get a free feat/asi and get to decide what they did during that downtime. I'd offer this in lieu of standard rewards.
It needs to be a "for everyone" benefit, because a free stat increase or similar is a considerable benefit to give to only one. It is best to be fair.
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Technically speaking, the ASIs are what is supposed to represent a PC doing things to improve their Ability scores. They don’t “just get stronger” because they hit a level, they have supposedly been working out (or whatever) which is what results in that +2 Str (or whatever) from an ASI. 🤷♂️
There's a magical manual the party can quest for that will boost his STR. I mean, those manuals aren't the sort of thing you just find at any old library, it needs to be earned, like advancement in general.
I don't know if I care for the "I'm using my ASIs for X, but I want to downtime train to improve my Y", I sorta feel ASIs take into account precisely you dedicating yourself to perfecting those ASIs (or developing a feat) in your downtime. Basically planning your character to level 20, accounting for all ASI/feats and then proposing an additional mechanical to boost a stat, I'd call a "gimme". If you do grant this "gimme", everyone in the party should benefit from the procedure.
As for accounting for it. In Xanathar's takes 10 weeks (modified by intelligence) of training to get proficiency in a _tool_, which is boost in a narrow application of a stat. Your Wizard I assume want to do a similar protocol for something that will affect athletics and every strength based melee use, plus encumbrance. So the question is scale. Are those broad benefits the equivalent of a tool boost of +2? Seems a mismatch. In the real world of practical/functional/tactical fitness where it's a constant question of how to define, assess and increase.fitness, there's some adages that "real gains" can be achieved in about four months, but if you want the habits, mindset and basically getting those gains "ingrained" you're really talking a year of solid conditioning work. So I'm thinking, if he's going to forego ASIs, I'd say like maybe 30 weeks to get a +1, maybe 60 weeks total for a +2, maybe pulled down a bit for intelligence. And that's it. Anything more gains would have to be accomplished via ASIs or some magical intervention.
It's one of those things where you have a player wanting a character that goes beyond what is mechanically possible. That isn't really planning out a character, unless there were already some house rules on character builds. It's a want that can be accomplished by favors and as the DM how do you accommodate that want fairly to consider the rest of the party.
One thing I'm wondering, if the Wizard is actually "planned" out, how does your game account for spell acquisition? Wizards need to find the spells they want in writing to be translated into their own spell book. Sure some spells are pretty easy to come by, but once I'd say you're at 4th+ level spells you're getting into "guarded" secrets and those are the sort of spells a Wizard can't reliably assume they'll "just get." At least that's the way I run Wizards. Yes they have the most exhaustive list of spells available as a class but unlike say Sorcerers, they can't just "pick" them. They have to work to get them. I actually invest game prep time into thinking about what sort of spell books or other spell documentation a Wizard will find in certain environments. Some adventures are accepted specifically because the Wizard wants to grow his repertoire, in fact the party's de facto code is the Wizard accompanies the party on their shenanigans in exchange for them accompanying him on his magical hijinks. It works.
I guess in character growth I'm very much of the "you can try" school of thought as opposed to give the character what they want (so for example if you want to multi class, and you're in the wastelands, you're pretty much stuck MCing into a something the party already has (I'll allow divine vocation "callings" for clerics and in some instances paladins if proposed as such, but the player needs to work with the game to build the moment. If you're in a more populated area, finding a mentor or entry into the new class takes work).
Essentially what the player is asking for is a free ability score increase.
Granted its not like it's for the casting stat or anything but still. Are you prepared to let the entire group do this kind of thing?
I'd consider it but there would definitely need to be a cost and first I'd need to know why. Is he doing it to meet the str min for some kind of power gamey multiclass like trying to meet the min str for armor or something, or is it just for flavor/ str checks?
There needs to be a cost, something like allowing him to swap out dex, or next level up he learns no new spells due to the time being used to work out instead of studying. Another thing you might consider is something like gauntlets of ogre strength which would take up an attunement slot.
So..... the wizard didn't have time to increase his STR with the potential ASI options, is now 13th level. They passed on levels 4,8,12 to use ASI, but *now* this stat is important? Seems like a straight up power grab, but what I'd suggest is a side quest to find an item that does raiser Strength. Allowing someone in "their free time" to just gain a significant bump would be unfair to other players. What did the wizard take at levels 4/8/12? If they were feats while the other PC's did use ASI, they should have an option to gain a feat perhaps.
Essentially what the player is asking for is a free ability score increase.
Granted its not like it's for the casting stat or anything but still. Are you prepared to let the entire group do this kind of thing?
But they are. If the spend their ASI on an Intelligence boost and ask for a free Strength boost its the exact same as if they had spent their ASI on Str and asked for free Int. It’s 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other.
Technically speaking, the ASIs are what is supposed to represent a PC doing things to improve their Ability scores. They don’t “just get stronger” because they hit a level, they have supposedly been working out (or whatever) which is what results in that +2 Str (or whatever) from an ASI. 🤷♂️
I guess that is one way to look at it. I always thought that it was because you've been spending your days fighting that your body naturally adapts and becomes stronger/w/e
If that were the case then PCs would only be allowed to spend ASIs on Abilities they actually use and not on anything else. If a character doesn’t make Str checks and Attacks then they couldn’t boost Str. No feats either. The fact that we can spend them as we wish indicates alternative intentional development on the part of the character.
Yeah, I'm with the others who would just say no to getting something for nothing. Ability scores are a big deal and underlie almost every aspect of the character, even if str is a dump stat, they shouldn't get something just because they want it. Since you said you're going to level 20, they'll get another asi at level 16 if it's that important. Or as others have said, there's a number of magic items that can fit the bill.
I'd say either everyone gets to boost a dump stat for their character or no one.
If strength is so important to the wizard then they can spend an ASI increasing it. They will get one at level 16. Alternatively, they could use an atunement slot for a magic item that boosts strength - gauntlets of ogre power might not be too hard to come by at that level. Finally, if there is a tome that increases strength they could try to find it and use that magic item to increase their strength permanently.
Another option could be that if they really want to increase their strength they could trade it off with another stat 1:1 - this would represent the character strength building at the expense of their other abilities.
e.g. You could come up with reasons to increase one stat at the expense of another
They build strength but lose agility - +1 str/ -1 dex
They build strength but lose a bit of their perceptiveness +1 str/-1 wis
They build strength but have less time for study +1 str/-1 int
The build strength but have less time for personal hygiene +1 str/-1 cha
They build strength but it reduces their endurance +1 str/ -1 con
There is a general problem that raising tertiary attributes feels strongly like a waste of an ASI. Sure, a wizard could use his third ASI to increase Str from 8 to 10 -- but he could also use it for something like Resilient(Constitution) or Toughness that would be a lot more valuable. I've considered adjusting the ASI system to be points so taking secondary or tertiary attributes would make more sense (for example: you get 5 points per ASI. It costs 1:1 to raise stats up to 13, 2:1 to raise them from 13-17, 3:1 to raise above 17. This slows down raising your primary attribute to 20, but greatly speeds up raising lower attributes).
I'd say either everyone gets to boost a dump stat for their character or no one.
If strength is so important to the wizard then they can spend an ASI increasing it. They will get one at level 16. Alternatively, they could use an atunement slot for a magic item that boosts strength - gauntlets of ogre power might not be too hard to come by at that level. Finally, if there is a tome that increases strength they could try to find it and use that magic item to increase their strength permanently.
Another option could be that if they really want to increase their strength they could trade it off with another stat 1:1 - this would represent the character strength building at the expense of their other abilities.
e.g. You could come up with reasons to increase one stat at the expense of another
They build strength but lose agility - +1 str/ -1 dex
They build strength but lose a bit of their perceptiveness +1 str/-1 wis
They build strength but have less time for study +1 str/-1 int
The build strength but have less time for personal hygiene +1 str/-1 cha
They build strength but it reduces their endurance +1 str/ -1 con
They used to do this in 1e, but it was a -2 to get the +1. And that's probably a better way to go in this edition. If someone has an even number, then taking a -1 in that score doesn't meaningfully impact the character.
Can he work out to gain Strength? No. Can he *have* an item that boosts Str? No. If you are willing to let him acquire an item, he should have to work for it, and the rest of the party should get a roughly equivalent benefit. Sounds like the hook for a side quest to me. He can go look for a Manual Of Gainful Exercise or something.
It would not have to be an item as such. If he needs his attunement slots free, perhaps the side quest could be to gather a whole bunch of rare and exotic herbs from all over the world to make a potion that permanently boosts Str. Don't let him buy it, or even most of the materials. If such things were available for mere money then every single member of the nobility would look like Arnold Schwarzenegger and maybe have other scores boosted as well.
I would never allow working out be a reason to give stat upgrades.
He's a wizard - couldn't he just make a magic item to do this?
I think I would turn it into a story hook with a monkey's paw situation. Like he can drain other people of their strength to fuel his own stats, but it wears off, and eventually he becomes a weird STR point vampire or something.
I just wanted to see how you guys would rule this.
I'd say "no".
Why? Because If this was part of the rules then everyone would do it and ability score generation would be pointless.
For example, if I said "OK, 3 months of downtime lets you increase STR by 1" then why every single player would say, "Well, my character spent 10 years before they started adventuring doing training, so they have 20 in every score."
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I would consider the stats of all characters and give all of them something that could benefit each of them. The manuals/tomes are some ideas, there's also items like belts of giant strength and headbands of intellect.
Or possibly just a free feat / ASI.
Let's say it's a time-skip of 6 months to a year. They get a free feat/asi and get to decide what they did during that downtime. I'd offer this in lieu of standard rewards.
It needs to be a "for everyone" benefit, because a free stat increase or similar is a considerable benefit to give to only one. It is best to be fair.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Technically speaking, the ASIs are what is supposed to represent a PC doing things to improve their Ability scores. They don’t “just get stronger” because they hit a level, they have supposedly been working out (or whatever) which is what results in that +2 Str (or whatever) from an ASI. 🤷♂️
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There's a magical manual the party can quest for that will boost his STR. I mean, those manuals aren't the sort of thing you just find at any old library, it needs to be earned, like advancement in general.
I don't know if I care for the "I'm using my ASIs for X, but I want to downtime train to improve my Y", I sorta feel ASIs take into account precisely you dedicating yourself to perfecting those ASIs (or developing a feat) in your downtime. Basically planning your character to level 20, accounting for all ASI/feats and then proposing an additional mechanical to boost a stat, I'd call a "gimme". If you do grant this "gimme", everyone in the party should benefit from the procedure.
As for accounting for it. In Xanathar's takes 10 weeks (modified by intelligence) of training to get proficiency in a _tool_, which is boost in a narrow application of a stat. Your Wizard I assume want to do a similar protocol for something that will affect athletics and every strength based melee use, plus encumbrance. So the question is scale. Are those broad benefits the equivalent of a tool boost of +2? Seems a mismatch. In the real world of practical/functional/tactical fitness where it's a constant question of how to define, assess and increase.fitness, there's some adages that "real gains" can be achieved in about four months, but if you want the habits, mindset and basically getting those gains "ingrained" you're really talking a year of solid conditioning work. So I'm thinking, if he's going to forego ASIs, I'd say like maybe 30 weeks to get a +1, maybe 60 weeks total for a +2, maybe pulled down a bit for intelligence. And that's it. Anything more gains would have to be accomplished via ASIs or some magical intervention.
It's one of those things where you have a player wanting a character that goes beyond what is mechanically possible. That isn't really planning out a character, unless there were already some house rules on character builds. It's a want that can be accomplished by favors and as the DM how do you accommodate that want fairly to consider the rest of the party.
One thing I'm wondering, if the Wizard is actually "planned" out, how does your game account for spell acquisition? Wizards need to find the spells they want in writing to be translated into their own spell book. Sure some spells are pretty easy to come by, but once I'd say you're at 4th+ level spells you're getting into "guarded" secrets and those are the sort of spells a Wizard can't reliably assume they'll "just get." At least that's the way I run Wizards. Yes they have the most exhaustive list of spells available as a class but unlike say Sorcerers, they can't just "pick" them. They have to work to get them. I actually invest game prep time into thinking about what sort of spell books or other spell documentation a Wizard will find in certain environments. Some adventures are accepted specifically because the Wizard wants to grow his repertoire, in fact the party's de facto code is the Wizard accompanies the party on their shenanigans in exchange for them accompanying him on his magical hijinks. It works.
I guess in character growth I'm very much of the "you can try" school of thought as opposed to give the character what they want (so for example if you want to multi class, and you're in the wastelands, you're pretty much stuck MCing into a something the party already has (I'll allow divine vocation "callings" for clerics and in some instances paladins if proposed as such, but the player needs to work with the game to build the moment. If you're in a more populated area, finding a mentor or entry into the new class takes work).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
This is what ASI are for. The player can also go looking for a Manual of Gainful Exercise.
Most mages consider simply getting Gauntlets of Ogre Power to be sufficient.
Essentially what the player is asking for is a free ability score increase.
Granted its not like it's for the casting stat or anything but still. Are you prepared to let the entire group do this kind of thing?
I'd consider it but there would definitely need to be a cost and first I'd need to know why. Is he doing it to meet the str min for some kind of power gamey multiclass like trying to meet the min str for armor or something, or is it just for flavor/ str checks?
There needs to be a cost, something like allowing him to swap out dex, or next level up he learns no new spells due to the time being used to work out instead of studying. Another thing you might consider is something like gauntlets of ogre strength which would take up an attunement slot.
So..... the wizard didn't have time to increase his STR with the potential ASI options, is now 13th level. They passed on levels 4,8,12 to use ASI, but *now* this stat is important? Seems like a straight up power grab, but what I'd suggest is a side quest to find an item that does raiser Strength. Allowing someone in "their free time" to just gain a significant bump would be unfair to other players. What did the wizard take at levels 4/8/12? If they were feats while the other PC's did use ASI, they should have an option to gain a feat perhaps.
But they are. If the spend their ASI on an Intelligence boost and ask for a free Strength boost its the exact same as if they had spent their ASI on Str and asked for free Int. It’s 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other.
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If that were the case then PCs would only be allowed to spend ASIs on Abilities they actually use and not on anything else. If a character doesn’t make Str checks and Attacks then they couldn’t boost Str. No feats either. The fact that we can spend them as we wish indicates alternative intentional development on the part of the character.
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Yeah, I'm with the others who would just say no to getting something for nothing. Ability scores are a big deal and underlie almost every aspect of the character, even if str is a dump stat, they shouldn't get something just because they want it. Since you said you're going to level 20, they'll get another asi at level 16 if it's that important. Or as others have said, there's a number of magic items that can fit the bill.
I'd say either everyone gets to boost a dump stat for their character or no one.
If strength is so important to the wizard then they can spend an ASI increasing it. They will get one at level 16. Alternatively, they could use an atunement slot for a magic item that boosts strength - gauntlets of ogre power might not be too hard to come by at that level. Finally, if there is a tome that increases strength they could try to find it and use that magic item to increase their strength permanently.
Another option could be that if they really want to increase their strength they could trade it off with another stat 1:1 - this would represent the character strength building at the expense of their other abilities.
e.g. You could come up with reasons to increase one stat at the expense of another
They build strength but lose agility - +1 str/ -1 dex
They build strength but lose a bit of their perceptiveness +1 str/-1 wis
They build strength but have less time for study +1 str/-1 int
The build strength but have less time for personal hygiene +1 str/-1 cha
They build strength but it reduces their endurance +1 str/ -1 con
There is a general problem that raising tertiary attributes feels strongly like a waste of an ASI. Sure, a wizard could use his third ASI to increase Str from 8 to 10 -- but he could also use it for something like Resilient(Constitution) or Toughness that would be a lot more valuable. I've considered adjusting the ASI system to be points so taking secondary or tertiary attributes would make more sense (for example: you get 5 points per ASI. It costs 1:1 to raise stats up to 13, 2:1 to raise them from 13-17, 3:1 to raise above 17. This slows down raising your primary attribute to 20, but greatly speeds up raising lower attributes).
They used to do this in 1e, but it was a -2 to get the +1. And that's probably a better way to go in this edition. If someone has an even number, then taking a -1 in that score doesn't meaningfully impact the character.
I would put together a quest for the party to find a magic item that increases strength. Maybe a https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/ioun-stone-of-strength.
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Since they both require attunement anyway, I'd go with the lower rarity gauntlets of ogre power.
Can he work out to gain Strength? No. Can he *have* an item that boosts Str? No. If you are willing to let him acquire an item, he should have to work for it, and the rest of the party should get a roughly equivalent benefit. Sounds like the hook for a side quest to me. He can go look for a Manual Of Gainful Exercise or something.
It would not have to be an item as such. If he needs his attunement slots free, perhaps the side quest could be to gather a whole bunch of rare and exotic herbs from all over the world to make a potion that permanently boosts Str. Don't let him buy it, or even most of the materials. If such things were available for mere money then every single member of the nobility would look like Arnold Schwarzenegger and maybe have other scores boosted as well.
<Insert clever signature here>
I would never allow working out be a reason to give stat upgrades.
He's a wizard - couldn't he just make a magic item to do this?
I think I would turn it into a story hook with a monkey's paw situation. Like he can drain other people of their strength to fuel his own stats, but it wears off, and eventually he becomes a weird STR point vampire or something.
I'd say "no".
Why? Because If this was part of the rules then everyone would do it and ability score generation would be pointless.
For example, if I said "OK, 3 months of downtime lets you increase STR by 1" then why every single player would say, "Well, my character spent 10 years before they started adventuring doing training, so they have 20 in every score."