So here's the thing I have a player that has created a "chaotic neutral" pc that worships a god of death and part of his background is that he was a coward and is now jaded that all good things in life are fleeting and that he just wants to die but his god won't let him ( outside of combat) because he wants him to understand the importance of life before he will allow him to die. This player has a tendency to role play his character to the point that nothing will encourage them to see life as "worth living".
I've tried throwing out kid npcs needing help, the potential for profit if the light of bravery, and literally had his god tell him "you need to rediscover the joy of life otherwise you can't enjoy the after live because all we have here is what has already existed and if that couldn't make you happy you wouldn't be happy after death."
Note: This deiety is chaotic but recognizes that chaos has a balance that still requires good and evil action. the issue with the PC is that he has done nothing since his trauma and has begun looking at evil as the default and say it always wins and there's no use fighting it.
I don't like killing characters unless I get the ok of the player. But anytime I ask the player what would encourage them I get a shrug and a "We'll see how he reacts to what you set before him.
On top of no assistance from plot hooks or interests the player says I'm not creative enough to create something his character would find compelling (despite creating the entire home-brewed world and multiple avenues for character growth!) I'm kinda reaching my limits so I either need some help to provide additional avenues for growth or I might have to just let the PC die with a failed mission. (He hasn't shown any interest in rediscovering the joy in life so the final mercy of the deiety he worships would simply be to erase his soul.
For he was neutral to the point that his existence meant nothing and no one will remember him. He neither sought honor and glory or villainy and tyranny. He was as bland as a bowl of bleached flour being shuffled from one location to the next adding no flavour but being beaten till near death then left to rest like an ash fill dough ball that had failed to rise to a flushed out character.
I'll be honest I am willing to hear criticism too if you think I need to lighten up. This is my first real campaign I DM for and I want to be fair but I don't like being told that I don't provide role play and character growth when I am trying. But the players aren't providing useful feedback.
There are two sides to this coin and it is hard to get a full perspective when we only have your side of the story. The first is that he is the problematic part of this arrangement--playing blasé to the point of not having any real personality in his character or showing any growth.
The second side might be your culpability in this arrangement. It REALLY sucks as a player when the player feels the DM is trying to force a change of their character or trying to force the character to "grow" before the player is ready. You mentioned starting small and eventually working your way up to the divine--that can be effective, but only if it did not come out as heavy handed from the very beginning. Players do not react well to heavy handed "look, DM mandated character growth moment!™" and that can often cause them to reactionarily shut down and refuse to accept the mandate or actively work against what you want.
Most of the time, the truth is somewhere in between, where both the DM and the player are contributing to the problem and mutually make it worse.
Now, you have two real ways to solve this problem:
1. Stop trying with their character. Not everyone wants to have character growth or enjoys that element of roleplaying--and if your story can churn along and your other players are not complaining (you did not allege either story or other player problems--just that you have a problem with the character), you can just DM for the other players and your main story, and let them develop how they will.
2. Have a conversation outside of the game to address the issues and see if you can figure out where the problems might lie and how to fix them.
I've been in similar situations a couple times. Here's how they worked out.
Situation 1: The Emo Spiral Player rolled a character with severe body dysmorphia and self-loathing tendencies, but who was determined to make his inventions the source of his pride and identity. As time progressed, however, he became more and more antisocial and hyperfocused on his inventions such that nobody in the party liked him. He purposefully decided to investigate a seedy part of town alone, got jumped, and ended up rolling death saves. The party found him in time to heal him, but I gave him a near-death experience where he got to see and interact with his allies in the spirit realm, hoping it would put his moodiness in perspective if he saw that people thought his life was valuable. It in fact convinced him that he just preferred to die.
I had many OOC conversations with the player after that (who, I might add, was unhappy with the character), and I worked with him to get creative. I had the spirit of a cheerful dead girl inhabit his body to let him play with a happy split personality. I gave him a supernatural gift (Aberrant Dragonmark feat) but every time he used it, he'd roll a d12 and be overcome with a random positive emotion. I gave him NPCs who liked and mentored him. I gave him child NPCs he could attach to and protect. All of this because the player said the character felt stuck and he couldn't organically get him unstuck. In the end, the player decided the character just couldn't change. I had him roll up a new one, and it's been smooth sailing since.
Situation 2: The Lone Wolf Cynic In the beginning, the character was streetwise and adventuring to travel and gain new experiences. Upon being exposed to, well, the ills of the world and the stakes of my campaign's plot, he began to develop into an extremely jaded and depressed person who wasn't willing to risk anything without a guarantee of safety or escape. He talked about hiding in his village and waiting for the fallout of the BBEG's plan. It got to the point that he was willing to strand the party in hostile dungeons if they poked things he didn't want to poke, and it was building resentment both in and out of game. The player, however, was perfectly fine with the character and wasn't feeling any of the growing disaffection.
I tried asking about the character's motivations for adventuring, bonds he might have with the party or NPCs, or literally any ideas about how to engage that character. I didn't really get much I could act on. I gave divine visions of plot context and the value of the heroic journey. I had an NPC confide in him and give him a personal quest. Not much changed. So I straight up told the player, "Your character choices are being interpreted in a really negative light, and it's affecting game enjoyment. I need him to be more of a team player, or I need him to ride off into the sunset." The player decided to dial down the moodiness a few notches and stick with the party even when they did things he didn't like - a sudden character shift, no in-game explanation. It was enough, and emotions simmered down.
For you...I think you're at the point where you need to be blunt and open with your player. Yes, a DM should provide creative opportunities for players to act upon, but the player has a responsibility to do something with them.
Things you can ask your player - What do you think it would take to make the PC change? - What hasn't appealed to you about the previous ideas? - What are some ideas you think may work? - Do you actually want the PC to grow?
I would also encourage you to tell your player what you need from him, and that you feel this has been a one-sided endeavor. If he gets offended that you're expecting him to put in some creative effort, that's on him, and he is welcome to leave your group. Life is too short to deal with entitled players.
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
On top of no assistance from plot hooks or interests the player says I'm not creative enough to create something his character would find compelling (despite creating the entire home-brewed world and multiple avenues for character growth!) I'm kinda reaching my limits so I either need some help to provide additional avenues for growth or I might have to just let the PC die with a failed mission. (He hasn't shown any interest in rediscovering the joy in life so the final mercy of the deiety he worships would simply be to erase his soul.
It is only partly the DM's responsibility to ensure that a player (and their character) are having fun. The player needs to choose what their character would be invested in.
I don't agree with adding a love interest: this character hates himself, life, and wants nothing. I don't see why any character would fall in love with him unless he changes.
Allow the PC to die with a failed mission. The PC's player is the one who has to choose that life is worth living, and if they don't, then that's on them. Sometimes storylines can end in tragedy.
I think that perhaps this character is also a general downer for the group - they sound like there's no reason that the group would really care about them. I'd say that the best option is to just let them get their wish and they can die in combat if that happens naturally in the course of the game. Don't force it, but don't shy from it either. You could even have the god tell them that since they've made no effort to live their life with love and enjoyment, the god of death no longer cares. It's a Chaotic deity, so it can be willing to change its mind whenever it feels like it.
If ever you find yourself thinking "How can I make this character happy?" and you've already tried a few times, the issue is on the player, not you. The player has to choose to engage. They can't just wait on the off-chance that you create something that they feel they're ready to go with.
I might suggest that the player seems to have created a character that has no reason for doing any of the things that they are doing. Additionally, if your player is pushing the responsibility of character motivation onto you, that character will become an NPC. That's what NPCs are, characters that the DM assigns flaws, motivations, and personalities to.
Your player need not tell you what would motivate their character for you to put it into the story, but they might have reason to explain why the PC is present in the group, and why this PC is choosing to do the things they are doing. Sitting around and moping that the DM isn't motivating my character to do anything is absolutely a self-fulfilling prophecy. There might be reason to have an in situ "Session 0" to clarify Player responsibilities and DM responsibilities, as well as character buy-in or character tie-in to the game world and plot. If your player isn't willing to accept the task of tying their character into the world or the plot, and relies on you to shoulder the lion's share of the burden, they aren't an active participant in the game, they are just an observer. And observer-style players are ok, they don't have to leave the group. Everyone needs to understand what they are dealing with and react accordingly. Your player-in-question included.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
@Sanvael "I don't agree with adding a love interest: this character hates himself, life, and wants nothing. I don't see why any character would fall in love with him unless he changes."
hence the Goldfrap - strict machine reference it refers to experiments on rats were electrodes were attached to the pleasure centers of their brains which were stimulated when they did what the scientist wanted them to... ie the character is compelled to fall in love which the player questioned the DM's creativity of being capable of
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
@Sanvael "I don't agree with adding a love interest: this character hates himself, life, and wants nothing. I don't see why any character would fall in love with him unless he changes."
hence the Goldfrap - strict machine reference it refers to experiments on rats were electrodes were attached to the pleasure centers of their brains which were stimulated when they did what the scientist wanted them to... ie the character is compelled to fall in love which the player questioned the DM's creativity of being capablehttps://i.imgur.com/Lx9QAxa.jpg
I take it you’ve never read Michael Crichton’s novel Terminal Man, have you?
IamSposta :D I have not it sounds intriguing, I rather enjoyed some of Michael Crichton’s stuff that I have come across namely Jurassic park and Sphere. Thank you for the pointer.
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“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
A romantic interest is absolutely not the right solution, for dozens upon dozens of reasons. For starters, based on the facts here, it does not seem like they would buy into the romantic interest, and the DM cannot really force that kind of relationship. That only compounds issues like potentially awkward roleplay for everyone at the table, feeling like the DM is being heavy handed in trying to change character, and all the numerous other pieces of drama which can come from romance in the game.
That is not to say romance can never be an option in the game - it can be fine if every player is on the same page about expectations and is okay with having such in the game - but it can never really be a solution to another problem, given how rife it can be with its own issues.
@Caerwyn_Glyndwr what your saying is helpful and I will do some review about how I've handled it. I appreciate it! I am currently trying to do your first suggestion but it's a small group (two friends) so once we completed the other players campaign arc his well have to be tackled. I have only had one conversation with him so far out of game about it but that was where he said I need to just come up with other ideas and we'll see what happens. I'll see if I lighten up a bit on his story will help for a bit.
@theologyofbagals Thanks for the advice I'll try some of the tips you suggested for the lone wolf cynic part. We did have a discussion about character development at our session zero and the player agreed that he thought his character would work in it I looked it over and I've read many stories that had similar characters and I've even played the jaded rouge that went on to protect a gnomish sorcerer ( mandalorian premise before it was created) but I recognized the plot hook the DM gave and bit it because I wanted a positive development option to try and pull us out of the murder hobo situation that we were spiraling into. And because I knew the DM was looking for a way to get us back into any arc rather then a random selection of encounters and profit. So thank you for the suggestions!
Interesting I haven't done that yet because I'm afraid he'd either eat it or go all of mice and men on it to help it avoid "suffering" though even that might nudge him down an evil path. As of right now he said he wants the character to be chaotic good by the end so I'm nervous to try that. That and the player himself has said there is no such thing as "lawful good characters" in dnd but that's a philosophical discuss for a different thread
I'd certainly totally agree no no to a conventional "romance" "love interest" as Caerwyn_Glyndwr said "for countless of reasons", for some reason though I think your nihilist roleplayer might be "tickled" to roleplay his chaotic neutral no outlook character suddenly overcome with love for a nameless thing steering him from afar, is it the bbeg!? or oh the hand of Divine glory! he doesn't know he doesn't care he's in love with the gossamer strings guiding... who are they? how can I find them? what are they using him/her for? HE/SHE LOVES IT... and it's probably totally not worth your effort THORIX_CLEAVER
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
We did have a discussion about character development at our session zero and the player agreed that he thought his character would work in it
The only other thing I'll add is that player preferences can change. I don't know how long he's been playing this character, but it could very well be that he isn't really interested in his own emotional growth arc anymore - or he said he was and never really had his heart in it. Doesn't hurt to check in with players periodically and see what they're thinking.
I mean, from what was mentioned in the OP it sounds less like the PC is not invested in having his character have emotional growth and more like they want what makes them do so be a big significant moment? Helping kids, getting profit... Those things might work to grind at the nihilism in some stories, but what they want sounds more like they want something like seeing something marvelous and that starts the recovery. So helping people and greed as you stablished wont do.
If he said that the conclusion that his character reached is that all good things are fleeting them what would move his character is either finding a good thing that isn't or finding out that bad things aren't and he has to enjoy things while he has them. So stuff like a wizard that collects beautiful memories or sights by freezing them in time inside snow globes (so that he might see something sublime, though it would depend a lot of how good you are at describing thungs); a warlock that is going to hell and wants to find a way to escape their fate (maybe they find a way to exchange their fate with the PC so that they have to worry about eternal suffering if they die); or a NPC (potential love interest optional) that is dying from something and their goal in life is enjoy what remains of it while completing their bucket list and pulls the PC along for reasons (maybe they took their attitude personally). It could be some magic that looks like time travel but that it makes you relieve memories and takes him before or to the moment that changed him.
Like, if he was expecting something out there like that then it sounds like an issue of miscomunication. Part of it is on them because you already asked them snd they were vague, so at least ask them to clarify if they are looking for a grind that makes them care slowly, stakes so high even they can't ignore it or a moment so beautiful that even they are moved. They are different stories after all.
I now see "give me a reason to care" PCs as a massive red flag. They are up there with "give me a reason to stay" PCs.
No. Reasons to care, or stay, are the player's responsibility.
So what has the player done in this instance? The character wants to die. But they are not allowed to die until they learn to enjoy life. So. You'd think the character would be pretty actively searching for a way to enjoy life wouldn't you? So they can get what they want?
Is the player doing this? Trying as hard as they can to find something to enjoy? Cause it sounds like they aren't doing anything at all. Sounds like they're siting there waiting for the world to stop what it's doing and put on a real show to impress them.
I would recommend stop. Don't cater to this player at all. And after a suitable number of sessions have their God or someone pop up and ask them what they have done to achieve their goal. When they answer "nothing" have the God reply "well, you obviously don't want it very much do you?" And disappear. From then on, no contact from the divine until they make some progress.
Then things will start to get interesting.
It is not the DM's job to give the character the answer to the "importance of life". It is the player's responsibility to find it.
So here's the thing I have a player that has created a "chaotic neutral" pc that worships a god of death and part of his background is that he was a coward and is now jaded that all good things in life are fleeting and that he just wants to die but his god won't let him ( outside of combat) because he wants him to understand the importance of life before he will allow him to die. This player has a tendency to role play his character to the point that nothing will encourage them to see life as "worth living".
I've tried throwing out kid npcs needing help, the potential for profit if the light of bravery, and literally had his god tell him "you need to rediscover the joy of life otherwise you can't enjoy the after live because all we have here is what has already existed and if that couldn't make you happy you wouldn't be happy after death."
Note: This deiety is chaotic but recognizes that chaos has a balance that still requires good and evil action. the issue with the PC is that he has done nothing since his trauma and has begun looking at evil as the default and say it always wins and there's no use fighting it.
I don't like killing characters unless I get the ok of the player. But anytime I ask the player what would encourage them I get a shrug and a "We'll see how he reacts to what you set before him.
On top of no assistance from plot hooks or interests the player says I'm not creative enough to create something his character would find compelling (despite creating the entire home-brewed world and multiple avenues for character growth!) I'm kinda reaching my limits so I either need some help to provide additional avenues for growth or I might have to just let the PC die with a failed mission. (He hasn't shown any interest in rediscovering the joy in life so the final mercy of the deiety he worships would simply be to erase his soul.
For he was neutral to the point that his existence meant nothing and no one will remember him. He neither sought honor and glory or villainy and tyranny. He was as bland as a bowl of bleached flour being shuffled from one location to the next adding no flavour but being beaten till near death then left to rest like an ash fill dough ball that had failed to rise to a flushed out character.
I'll be honest I am willing to hear criticism too if you think I need to lighten up. This is my first real campaign I DM for and I want to be fair but I don't like being told that I don't provide role play and character growth when I am trying. But the players aren't providing useful feedback.
Maybe it’s a little too obvious, but what about giving him a love interest?
There are two sides to this coin and it is hard to get a full perspective when we only have your side of the story. The first is that he is the problematic part of this arrangement--playing blasé to the point of not having any real personality in his character or showing any growth.
The second side might be your culpability in this arrangement. It REALLY sucks as a player when the player feels the DM is trying to force a change of their character or trying to force the character to "grow" before the player is ready. You mentioned starting small and eventually working your way up to the divine--that can be effective, but only if it did not come out as heavy handed from the very beginning. Players do not react well to heavy handed "look, DM mandated character growth moment!™" and that can often cause them to reactionarily shut down and refuse to accept the mandate or actively work against what you want.
Most of the time, the truth is somewhere in between, where both the DM and the player are contributing to the problem and mutually make it worse.
Now, you have two real ways to solve this problem:
1. Stop trying with their character. Not everyone wants to have character growth or enjoys that element of roleplaying--and if your story can churn along and your other players are not complaining (you did not allege either story or other player problems--just that you have a problem with the character), you can just DM for the other players and your main story, and let them develop how they will.
2. Have a conversation outside of the game to address the issues and see if you can figure out where the problems might lie and how to fix them.
I've been in similar situations a couple times. Here's how they worked out.
Situation 1: The Emo Spiral
Player rolled a character with severe body dysmorphia and self-loathing tendencies, but who was determined to make his inventions the source of his pride and identity. As time progressed, however, he became more and more antisocial and hyperfocused on his inventions such that nobody in the party liked him. He purposefully decided to investigate a seedy part of town alone, got jumped, and ended up rolling death saves. The party found him in time to heal him, but I gave him a near-death experience where he got to see and interact with his allies in the spirit realm, hoping it would put his moodiness in perspective if he saw that people thought his life was valuable. It in fact convinced him that he just preferred to die.
I had many OOC conversations with the player after that (who, I might add, was unhappy with the character), and I worked with him to get creative. I had the spirit of a cheerful dead girl inhabit his body to let him play with a happy split personality. I gave him a supernatural gift (Aberrant Dragonmark feat) but every time he used it, he'd roll a d12 and be overcome with a random positive emotion. I gave him NPCs who liked and mentored him. I gave him child NPCs he could attach to and protect. All of this because the player said the character felt stuck and he couldn't organically get him unstuck. In the end, the player decided the character just couldn't change. I had him roll up a new one, and it's been smooth sailing since.
Situation 2: The Lone Wolf Cynic
In the beginning, the character was streetwise and adventuring to travel and gain new experiences. Upon being exposed to, well, the ills of the world and the stakes of my campaign's plot, he began to develop into an extremely jaded and depressed person who wasn't willing to risk anything without a guarantee of safety or escape. He talked about hiding in his village and waiting for the fallout of the BBEG's plan. It got to the point that he was willing to strand the party in hostile dungeons if they poked things he didn't want to poke, and it was building resentment both in and out of game. The player, however, was perfectly fine with the character and wasn't feeling any of the growing disaffection.
I tried asking about the character's motivations for adventuring, bonds he might have with the party or NPCs, or literally any ideas about how to engage that character. I didn't really get much I could act on. I gave divine visions of plot context and the value of the heroic journey. I had an NPC confide in him and give him a personal quest. Not much changed. So I straight up told the player, "Your character choices are being interpreted in a really negative light, and it's affecting game enjoyment. I need him to be more of a team player, or I need him to ride off into the sunset." The player decided to dial down the moodiness a few notches and stick with the party even when they did things he didn't like - a sudden character shift, no in-game explanation. It was enough, and emotions simmered down.
For you...I think you're at the point where you need to be blunt and open with your player. Yes, a DM should provide creative opportunities for players to act upon, but the player has a responsibility to do something with them.
Things you can ask your player
- What do you think it would take to make the PC change?
- What hasn't appealed to you about the previous ideas?
- What are some ideas you think may work?
- Do you actually want the PC to grow?
I would also encourage you to tell your player what you need from him, and that you feel this has been a one-sided endeavor. If he gets offended that you're expecting him to put in some creative effort, that's on him, and he is welcome to leave your group. Life is too short to deal with entitled players.
Mmm... "not creative enough to create something his character would find compelling" seems like a kind of self fulfilling prophecy there...
edit update... have them fall in love with a strict machine
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
It is only partly the DM's responsibility to ensure that a player (and their character) are having fun. The player needs to choose what their character would be invested in.
I don't agree with adding a love interest: this character hates himself, life, and wants nothing. I don't see why any character would fall in love with him unless he changes.
Allow the PC to die with a failed mission. The PC's player is the one who has to choose that life is worth living, and if they don't, then that's on them. Sometimes storylines can end in tragedy.
I think that perhaps this character is also a general downer for the group - they sound like there's no reason that the group would really care about them. I'd say that the best option is to just let them get their wish and they can die in combat if that happens naturally in the course of the game. Don't force it, but don't shy from it either. You could even have the god tell them that since they've made no effort to live their life with love and enjoyment, the god of death no longer cares. It's a Chaotic deity, so it can be willing to change its mind whenever it feels like it.
If ever you find yourself thinking "How can I make this character happy?" and you've already tried a few times, the issue is on the player, not you. The player has to choose to engage. They can't just wait on the off-chance that you create something that they feel they're ready to go with.
I might suggest that the player seems to have created a character that has no reason for doing any of the things that they are doing. Additionally, if your player is pushing the responsibility of character motivation onto you, that character will become an NPC. That's what NPCs are, characters that the DM assigns flaws, motivations, and personalities to.
Your player need not tell you what would motivate their character for you to put it into the story, but they might have reason to explain why the PC is present in the group, and why this PC is choosing to do the things they are doing. Sitting around and moping that the DM isn't motivating my character to do anything is absolutely a self-fulfilling prophecy. There might be reason to have an in situ "Session 0" to clarify Player responsibilities and DM responsibilities, as well as character buy-in or character tie-in to the game world and plot. If your player isn't willing to accept the task of tying their character into the world or the plot, and relies on you to shoulder the lion's share of the burden, they aren't an active participant in the game, they are just an observer. And observer-style players are ok, they don't have to leave the group. Everyone needs to understand what they are dealing with and react accordingly. Your player-in-question included.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
@Sanvael "I don't agree with adding a love interest: this character hates himself, life, and wants nothing. I don't see why any character would fall in love with him unless he changes."
hence the Goldfrap - strict machine reference
it refers to experiments on rats were electrodes were attached to the pleasure centers of their brains which were stimulated when they did what the scientist wanted them to...
ie the character is compelled to fall in love which the player questioned the DM's creativity of being capable of
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
I take it you’ve never read Michael Crichton’s novel Terminal Man, have you?
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IamSposta :D I have not it sounds intriguing, I rather enjoyed some of Michael Crichton’s stuff that I have come across namely Jurassic park and Sphere. Thank you for the pointer.
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
I have read every work of fiction Crichton ever published, Terminal Man is one of my favorites.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
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A romantic interest is absolutely not the right solution, for dozens upon dozens of reasons. For starters, based on the facts here, it does not seem like they would buy into the romantic interest, and the DM cannot really force that kind of relationship. That only compounds issues like potentially awkward roleplay for everyone at the table, feeling like the DM is being heavy handed in trying to change character, and all the numerous other pieces of drama which can come from romance in the game.
That is not to say romance can never be an option in the game - it can be fine if every player is on the same page about expectations and is okay with having such in the game - but it can never really be a solution to another problem, given how rife it can be with its own issues.
This might either sound dumb or backfire but have you tried giving them a puppy?
@Caerwyn_Glyndwr what your saying is helpful and I will do some review about how I've handled it. I appreciate it! I am currently trying to do your first suggestion but it's a small group (two friends) so once we completed the other players campaign arc his well have to be tackled. I have only had one conversation with him so far out of game about it but that was where he said I need to just come up with other ideas and we'll see what happens. I'll see if I lighten up a bit on his story will help for a bit.
@theologyofbagals Thanks for the advice I'll try some of the tips you suggested for the lone wolf cynic part. We did have a discussion about character development at our session zero and the player agreed that he thought his character would work in it I looked it over and I've read many stories that had similar characters and I've even played the jaded rouge that went on to protect a gnomish sorcerer ( mandalorian premise before it was created) but I recognized the plot hook the DM gave and bit it because I wanted a positive development option to try and pull us out of the murder hobo situation that we were spiraling into. And because I knew the DM was looking for a way to get us back into any arc rather then a random selection of encounters and profit. So thank you for the suggestions!
Interesting I haven't done that yet because I'm afraid he'd either eat it or go all of mice and men on it to help it avoid "suffering" though even that might nudge him down an evil path. As of right now he said he wants the character to be chaotic good by the end so I'm nervous to try that. That and the player himself has said there is no such thing as "lawful good characters" in dnd but that's a philosophical discuss for a different thread
I'd certainly totally agree no no to a conventional "romance" "love interest" as Caerwyn_Glyndwr said "for countless of reasons", for some reason though I think your nihilist roleplayer might be "tickled" to roleplay his chaotic neutral no outlook character suddenly overcome with love for a nameless thing steering him from afar, is it the bbeg!? or oh the hand of Divine glory! he doesn't know he doesn't care he's in love with the gossamer strings guiding... who are they? how can I find them? what are they using him/her for? HE/SHE LOVES IT... and it's probably totally not worth your effort THORIX_CLEAVER
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
The only other thing I'll add is that player preferences can change. I don't know how long he's been playing this character, but it could very well be that he isn't really interested in his own emotional growth arc anymore - or he said he was and never really had his heart in it. Doesn't hurt to check in with players periodically and see what they're thinking.
I mean, from what was mentioned in the OP it sounds less like the PC is not invested in having his character have emotional growth and more like they want what makes them do so be a big significant moment? Helping kids, getting profit... Those things might work to grind at the nihilism in some stories, but what they want sounds more like they want something like seeing something marvelous and that starts the recovery. So helping people and greed as you stablished wont do.
If he said that the conclusion that his character reached is that all good things are fleeting them what would move his character is either finding a good thing that isn't or finding out that bad things aren't and he has to enjoy things while he has them. So stuff like a wizard that collects beautiful memories or sights by freezing them in time inside snow globes (so that he might see something sublime, though it would depend a lot of how good you are at describing thungs); a warlock that is going to hell and wants to find a way to escape their fate (maybe they find a way to exchange their fate with the PC so that they have to worry about eternal suffering if they die); or a NPC (potential love interest optional) that is dying from something and their goal in life is enjoy what remains of it while completing their bucket list and pulls the PC along for reasons (maybe they took their attitude personally). It could be some magic that looks like time travel but that it makes you relieve memories and takes him before or to the moment that changed him.
Like, if he was expecting something out there like that then it sounds like an issue of miscomunication. Part of it is on them because you already asked them snd they were vague, so at least ask them to clarify if they are looking for a grind that makes them care slowly, stakes so high even they can't ignore it or a moment so beautiful that even they are moved. They are different stories after all.
I now see "give me a reason to care" PCs as a massive red flag. They are up there with "give me a reason to stay" PCs.
No. Reasons to care, or stay, are the player's responsibility.
So what has the player done in this instance? The character wants to die. But they are not allowed to die until they learn to enjoy life. So. You'd think the character would be pretty actively searching for a way to enjoy life wouldn't you? So they can get what they want?
Is the player doing this? Trying as hard as they can to find something to enjoy? Cause it sounds like they aren't doing anything at all. Sounds like they're siting there waiting for the world to stop what it's doing and put on a real show to impress them.
I would recommend stop. Don't cater to this player at all. And after a suitable number of sessions have their God or someone pop up and ask them what they have done to achieve their goal. When they answer "nothing" have the God reply "well, you obviously don't want it very much do you?" And disappear. From then on, no contact from the divine until they make some progress.
Then things will start to get interesting.
It is not the DM's job to give the character the answer to the "importance of life". It is the player's responsibility to find it.