pc wanted to kill my dm pc i was unsure on any rulings so steered away from it but lets say i wanted to allow it would i A. See it as a combat situation or B ask for a skill check/save roll and who should roll and what roll would be best i.e dm pc rolls perception
I'd probably allow it and I'd just run it as combat. If they are trying to do it sneakily they may get to roll stealth v the npc's passive perception, on a success the npc's is surprised on a failure they are not. I'd also check why they are killing the dm pc because they may just really not like the character so you may be better off just getting rid of them.
I'd probably allow it and I'd just run it as combat. If they are trying to do it sneakily they may get to roll stealth v the npc's passive perception, on a success the npc's is surprised on a failure they are not. I'd also check why they are killing the dm pc because they may just really not like the character so you may be better off just getting rid of them.
og bow that's a story in it's self but long story short ... They killed an npc that dms pc had alliance with so the two pcs no longer see eye to eye it's an interesting devolopment that's actually made me retroactivly add details to a rather vauge bit of backstory that was only ever ment as motivation for the pc to be near the campaign starting location
I may even dedicate a session to this new plot somehow
If you feel there’s narrative reasons, rather than the party just not liking having a DMPC, why not turn him into a mini BBEG and skin him as a monster. Perhaps after the falling out over the other NPC death this DMPC has been making their own plans and intends to betray the party or turn them over to the guards? Find a monster statblock which represents their skill, add some additional abilities and reflavour anything that makes them feel more like the character. Maybe have them hire some mercenary mooks to make the inevitable combat more epic
If you are going to allow it then run it as a combat. 5e has no instant kill mechanics and unless you want the players using them for stealthy kills against opponents then I'd suggest not allowing such an approach for the PC in this case.
However, I also think you need to try to objectively assess this from the DMPC point of view.
Characters do not suddenly say "I'm going to kill X party member (even if that party member is a DMPC)". This DMPC has presumably been with the party for some time. Presumably at least some of the party trust the DMPC and vice versa. Presumably the DMPC doesn't have concerns with sleeping in a camp with the rest of the party. If the DMPC is as aware of the situation as the PC that has decided to kill them then why wouldn't they have left first? The PC and DMPC may not like each other but is it sufficient to justify what would appear to be an assassination attempt?
Why would the other characters also not be aware of the situation? Is it in character for the PC to decide to assassinate another party member?
As far as I am concerned, it isn't just a PC deciding to off an NPC (though that can be bad enough), this is essentially equivalent to a PC deciding to kill another party member.
Once you resolve whether the actions actually make sense and aren't just some form of grandstanding then you can figure out whether the signs of this type of response would have been visible - anger, upset, disagreements, attitude - and whether the DMPC would have decided to just leave the party because they no longer felt safe adventuring with the group.
If you are going to allow it then run it as a combat. 5e has no instant kill mechanics and unless you want the players using them for stealthy kills against opponents then I'd suggest not allowing such an approach for the PC in this case.
However, I also think you need to try to objectively assess this from the DMPC point of view.
Characters do not suddenly say "I'm going to kill X party member (even if that party member is a DMPC)". This DMPC has presumably been with the party for some time. Presumably at least some of the party trust the DMPC and vice versa. Presumably the DMPC doesn't have concerns with sleeping in a camp with the rest of the party. If the DMPC is as aware of the situation as the PC that has decided to kill them then why wouldn't they have left first? The PC and DMPC may not like each other but is it sufficient to justify what would appear to be an assassination attempt?
Why would the other characters also not be aware of the situation? Is it in character for the PC to decide to assassinate another party member?
As far as I am concerned, it isn't just a PC deciding to off an NPC (though that can be bad enough), this is essentially equivalent to a PC deciding to kill another party member.
Once you resolve whether the actions actually make sense and aren't just some form of grandstanding then you can figure out whether the signs of this type of response would have been visible - anger, upset, disagreements, attitude - and whether the DMPC would have decided to just leave the party because they no longer felt safe adventuring with the group.
Agreed. I once had an NPC that the party adored and adopted (despite or perhaps because of my grumblings against it). One player actively hated the NPC and made it clear in-game and out, but it is a big leap from 'can we dump this person at the next tavern?' to 'I think I'll stab this person now'. I would have accommodated the player that disliked the NPC, but the rest of the players were adamant about keeping the NPC. NPC hat changed into a DMPC hat, but a side convo with the player revealed that he was frustrated that the other players were doting on the little lost NPC instead of interacting so much with him. A bit of a complicated issue, but basically when he established that his character hated the NPC, the others essentially were trying to protect the NPC from his occasional jab.
Things didn't work out with that player at the table, in part because of this but also because of other, similar issues. My recommendation is that if a player has a serious problem with an NPC, to have that side convo and see if it is purely from a PC perspective or if there is some other, deeper problem boiling over. The faster a DM can address it, the better.
pc wanted to kill my dm pc i was unsure on any rulings so steered away from it but lets say i wanted to allow it would i A. See it as a combat situation or B ask for a skill check/save roll and who should roll and what roll would be best i.e dm pc rolls perception
in a hole in the ground you notice a halfling
I'd probably allow it and I'd just run it as combat. If they are trying to do it sneakily they may get to roll stealth v the npc's passive perception, on a success the npc's is surprised on a failure they are not. I'd also check why they are killing the dm pc because they may just really not like the character so you may be better off just getting rid of them.
PvP is combat, use combat rules. You don't want a player just going down the line killing the party withe one opposed check each.
og bow that's a story in it's self but long story short ... They killed an npc that dms pc had alliance with so the two pcs no longer see eye to eye it's an interesting devolopment that's actually made me retroactivly add details to a rather vauge bit of backstory that was only ever ment as motivation for the pc to be near the campaign starting location
I may even dedicate a session to this new plot somehow
in a hole in the ground you notice a halfling
If you feel there’s narrative reasons, rather than the party just not liking having a DMPC, why not turn him into a mini BBEG and skin him as a monster. Perhaps after the falling out over the other NPC death this DMPC has been making their own plans and intends to betray the party or turn them over to the guards? Find a monster statblock which represents their skill, add some additional abilities and reflavour anything that makes them feel more like the character. Maybe have them hire some mercenary mooks to make the inevitable combat more epic
Treat it like any encounter. A DMPC shouldn't have plot armor when a player wants to shank them.
That shanking should have consequences though. Who knows about this murder? What are the penalties? What was the DMPC doing that now won't be done?
If you are going to allow it then run it as a combat. 5e has no instant kill mechanics and unless you want the players using them for stealthy kills against opponents then I'd suggest not allowing such an approach for the PC in this case.
However, I also think you need to try to objectively assess this from the DMPC point of view.
Characters do not suddenly say "I'm going to kill X party member (even if that party member is a DMPC)". This DMPC has presumably been with the party for some time. Presumably at least some of the party trust the DMPC and vice versa. Presumably the DMPC doesn't have concerns with sleeping in a camp with the rest of the party. If the DMPC is as aware of the situation as the PC that has decided to kill them then why wouldn't they have left first? The PC and DMPC may not like each other but is it sufficient to justify what would appear to be an assassination attempt?
Why would the other characters also not be aware of the situation? Is it in character for the PC to decide to assassinate another party member?
As far as I am concerned, it isn't just a PC deciding to off an NPC (though that can be bad enough), this is essentially equivalent to a PC deciding to kill another party member.
Once you resolve whether the actions actually make sense and aren't just some form of grandstanding then you can figure out whether the signs of this type of response would have been visible - anger, upset, disagreements, attitude - and whether the DMPC would have decided to just leave the party because they no longer felt safe adventuring with the group.
Agreed. I once had an NPC that the party adored and adopted (despite or perhaps because of my grumblings against it). One player actively hated the NPC and made it clear in-game and out, but it is a big leap from 'can we dump this person at the next tavern?' to 'I think I'll stab this person now'. I would have accommodated the player that disliked the NPC, but the rest of the players were adamant about keeping the NPC. NPC hat changed into a DMPC hat, but a side convo with the player revealed that he was frustrated that the other players were doting on the little lost NPC instead of interacting so much with him. A bit of a complicated issue, but basically when he established that his character hated the NPC, the others essentially were trying to protect the NPC from his occasional jab.
Things didn't work out with that player at the table, in part because of this but also because of other, similar issues. My recommendation is that if a player has a serious problem with an NPC, to have that side convo and see if it is purely from a PC perspective or if there is some other, deeper problem boiling over. The faster a DM can address it, the better.
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