When characters encounter a written language, and nobody in the party is fluent in it, the question invariably comes up at my table: "can I work out any part of what it means?"
There's no official rule for this, from what I can tell. Either you're fluent in a language or you're not... and if you're not, your only options are pretty limited: the Comprehend Languages spell, find a translator, or maybe take the writing to a library. But if you're exploring unknown territory, or in the middle of a dungeon crawl, you may not have any of these options. Am I missing anything?
If the intent of the rules is to simply tell the players "you're out of luck, you have no idea what that says," I guess can respect that (especially in the context of a dungeon crawl), but the problem I've had with that approach is time being wasted by the players wondering whether they've missed something important. To avoid things totally grinding to a halt, I've sometimes allowed a general INT check to see if the character can pick out a word or two, and maybe get a general idea of what's written, without a full translation and missing some potentially important information: "this writing is directions to get someplace," or "the sign is a warning about some kind of danger ahead," for example. That, at least, keeps things moving because the players can make the decision whether to investigate further or not. Have other DMs done anything similar? Is there a better way to handle this?
Yeah language is straightforward, you usually can speak, read, and write known language or not. An Intelligence check comes into play when you need to draw on logic, education, memory, or deductive reasoning, which i did on occasions to let characters translate some words or phrases of an unknown language that had a shared script with a language they know.
I find it useful to think about languages like tags in a video game... If you speak the language, you have access to that part of the story. If you don't speak the language, you can't access that part of the story in this play-through...
If you look in the PHB it tells you which languages use which scripts. For example, Primordial, Goblin, and Orcish are all written in the Dwarvish script. If you wanted to be generous you could allow for an Intelligence check (perhaps with Investigation or something) at disadvantage to discern something from a written text if it’s in the same script as one your character can read. For example, if they’re fluent in Dwarvish, they might be able to pick outa word here or a line there in a book written in Goblin.
I really wish that a Linguistics skill existed. If you're a DM, and are planning on having language barriers play a role in the campaign, I would consider creating one at the beginning of the game. Alternatively, just make sure that if a language barrier exists, that there is a magical solution, an NPC, or some other method of translation available to the players.
I like the idea of factoring in the script that the language uses, that's a good point. I am only fluent in English, so I can only try to work out the content of writing that uses the Latin alphabet-- if you give me kanji, I'm useless. So I've probably been a little too generous in my rulings on it. I'll have to come up with some lists of which languages use which scripts, and make characters rely on Investigation for other context clues if they don't have a similar language. Thank you all for the replies!
Oh, and just for context, the main group I DM for is a fighter, a monk, and a rogue. Nobody's got access Comprehend Languages (unless I give them a magic item about it), which is why they end up in these situations.
I always thought of language in D&D as a plot device, basically. It’s easy enough to know what your PCs speak. Then just decide if you want/need to to be able to read something, or if you want it to be a mystery. So you either give them the information, because they can read it, or you give them a plot hook, because they need to find a translator.
Welcome the helm of comprehending languages 😁 on a more serious note the language problems come in at least 4 varieties: 1) the Mandarin - Cantonese conundrum (with kanji thrown in as well): when spoken mandarin and Cantonese are 2 separate languages, but when written they are the same - strange. Then you add in that both Korean and Japanese are written with the Chinese symbols, except that Japanese also has the kanji “script” of modified symbols as well. So be careful about which language your actually deciphering. 2) the “ my how time doth fly” problem - just because I speak and read modern American English doesn’t mean I am fluent in Elizabethan English 500 years old) or Chaucer’s olde English (1000 years old) let alone the ancient Anglo-protoGermanic of 500 AD. Here having the history skill should help as most historians learn at least some of the ancient variants of the languages of the people they study. 3) breaking up the romance - then you have scripts of multiple languages from the same root language like the Romance languages French, Spanish, Portuguese and Italian all from Latin. does speaking and reading one give you access to all? See the spoiler for a couple of real life stories on this.
I took first year Spanish 3 years in a row (different schools started it in different grades) in grammar school, then junior high ( middle school to younger folks)/I took and failed French because every time the teacher spoke in French I understood enough to know what they were saying but my replies were always in Spanish as that was how my brain was now programmed. In grad school I got a (geology) seminar assignment to research and report on a topic the following week. I discovered that the key article I needed was in the Brazilian Journal of Science - in Portuguese. Thanks to my knowledge of geology, the maps and diagrams in the article and the bits and pieces of French, Spanish, and Latin I had picked up I was able to get enough out of the article (which the prof knew about and wanted to see if anyone dared to try) to be successful.
4) the “Rosetta stone” languages - these are the ancient languages with dead scripts that require either magic or some sort of “ Rosetta Stone” to figure out. Better make a rubbing/copy and take it back for latter analysis. So what mechanics might help? For older versions of extant languages the history skill should give a plus one or two. Similarly knowing more than one related languages should give pluses to other related languages. Finally the linguistics feat should help in 2 different ways. First, simply by giving you 3 languages it makes it far more likely that you have something that can help you decipher whatever you find. Second it shows you have a talent for picking up languages, I would have that equal a +1 to any check to decipher a language (at least if it is in a “script” you know) I have a couple of NPC mages with linguistics that took Sarrukh, Netherese, and Imaskarian as their languages so they had in’s into the writings of the 3 greatest magical cultures of the Forgotten Realms.
I like the idea of factoring in the script that the language uses, that's a good point. I am only fluent in English, so I can only try to work out the content of writing that uses the Latin alphabet-- if you give me kanji, I'm useless. So I've probably been a little too generous in my rulings on it. I'll have to come up with some lists of which languages use which scripts, and make characters rely on Investigation for other context clues if they don't have a similar language. Thank you all for the replies!
Oh, and just for context, the main group I DM for is a fighter, a monk, and a rogue. Nobody's got access Comprehend Languages (unless I give them a magic item about it), which is why they end up in these situations.
It always depend on the importance of the text in translation to my campaign story, if it's really critical to the plot to understand crucial part of it to advance the story, i will be generous with what i dispense with the Intelligence check or will easily let the party find someone in a settlement to translate it for them, especially if it's not an exotic language or one with extraplanar origins.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
When characters encounter a written language, and nobody in the party is fluent in it, the question invariably comes up at my table: "can I work out any part of what it means?"
There's no official rule for this, from what I can tell. Either you're fluent in a language or you're not... and if you're not, your only options are pretty limited: the Comprehend Languages spell, find a translator, or maybe take the writing to a library. But if you're exploring unknown territory, or in the middle of a dungeon crawl, you may not have any of these options. Am I missing anything?
If the intent of the rules is to simply tell the players "you're out of luck, you have no idea what that says," I guess can respect that (especially in the context of a dungeon crawl), but the problem I've had with that approach is time being wasted by the players wondering whether they've missed something important. To avoid things totally grinding to a halt, I've sometimes allowed a general INT check to see if the character can pick out a word or two, and maybe get a general idea of what's written, without a full translation and missing some potentially important information: "this writing is directions to get someplace," or "the sign is a warning about some kind of danger ahead," for example. That, at least, keeps things moving because the players can make the decision whether to investigate further or not. Have other DMs done anything similar? Is there a better way to handle this?
Yeah language is straightforward, you usually can speak, read, and write known language or not. An Intelligence check comes into play when you need to draw on logic, education, memory, or deductive reasoning, which i did on occasions to let characters translate some words or phrases of an unknown language that had a shared script with a language they know.
I find it useful to think about languages like tags in a video game... If you speak the language, you have access to that part of the story. If you don't speak the language, you can't access that part of the story in this play-through...
If you look in the PHB it tells you which languages use which scripts. For example, Primordial, Goblin, and Orcish are all written in the Dwarvish script. If you wanted to be generous you could allow for an Intelligence check (perhaps with Investigation or something) at disadvantage to discern something from a written text if it’s in the same script as one your character can read. For example, if they’re fluent in Dwarvish, they might be able to pick outa word here or a line there in a book written in Goblin.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I really wish that a Linguistics skill existed. If you're a DM, and are planning on having language barriers play a role in the campaign, I would consider creating one at the beginning of the game. Alternatively, just make sure that if a language barrier exists, that there is a magical solution, an NPC, or some other method of translation available to the players.
Comprehend languages is available to every bard, sorcerer, warlock, and wizard. Most campaigns have at least one of those classes.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I like the idea of factoring in the script that the language uses, that's a good point. I am only fluent in English, so I can only try to work out the content of writing that uses the Latin alphabet-- if you give me kanji, I'm useless. So I've probably been a little too generous in my rulings on it. I'll have to come up with some lists of which languages use which scripts, and make characters rely on Investigation for other context clues if they don't have a similar language. Thank you all for the replies!
Oh, and just for context, the main group I DM for is a fighter, a monk, and a rogue. Nobody's got access Comprehend Languages (unless I give them a magic item about it), which is why they end up in these situations.
I always thought of language in D&D as a plot device, basically. It’s easy enough to know what your PCs speak. Then just decide if you want/need to to be able to read something, or if you want it to be a mystery. So you either give them the information, because they can read it, or you give them a plot hook, because they need to find a translator.
Welcome the helm of comprehending languages 😁
on a more serious note the language problems come in at least 4 varieties:
1) the Mandarin - Cantonese conundrum (with kanji thrown in as well): when spoken mandarin and Cantonese are 2 separate languages, but when written they are the same - strange. Then you add in that both Korean and Japanese are written with the Chinese symbols, except that Japanese also has the kanji “script” of modified symbols as well. So be careful about which language your actually deciphering.
2) the “ my how time doth fly” problem - just because I speak and read modern American English doesn’t mean I am fluent in Elizabethan English 500 years old) or Chaucer’s olde English (1000 years old) let alone the ancient Anglo-protoGermanic of 500 AD. Here having the history skill should help as most historians learn at least some of the ancient variants of the languages of the people they study.
3) breaking up the romance - then you have scripts of multiple languages from the same root language like the Romance languages French, Spanish, Portuguese and Italian all from Latin.
does speaking and reading one give you access to all? See the spoiler for a couple of real life stories on this.
I took first year Spanish 3 years in a row (different schools started it in different grades) in grammar school, then junior high ( middle school to younger folks)/I took and failed French because every time the teacher spoke in French I understood enough to know what they were saying but my replies were always in Spanish as that was how my brain was now programmed.
In grad school I got a (geology) seminar assignment to research and report on a topic the following week. I discovered that the key article I needed was in the Brazilian Journal of Science - in Portuguese. Thanks to my knowledge of geology, the maps and diagrams in the article and the bits and pieces of French, Spanish, and Latin I had picked up I was able to get enough out of the article (which the prof knew about and wanted to see if anyone dared to try) to be successful.
4) the “Rosetta stone” languages - these are the ancient languages with dead scripts that require either magic or some sort of “ Rosetta Stone” to figure out. Better make a rubbing/copy and take it back for latter analysis.
So what mechanics might help? For older versions of extant languages the history skill should give a plus one or two. Similarly knowing more than one related languages should give pluses to other related languages. Finally the linguistics feat should help in 2 different ways. First, simply by giving you 3 languages it makes it far more likely that you have something that can help you decipher whatever you find. Second it shows you have a talent for picking up languages, I would have that equal a +1 to any check to decipher a language (at least if it is in a “script” you know) I have a couple of NPC mages with linguistics that took Sarrukh, Netherese, and Imaskarian as their languages so they had in’s into the writings of the 3 greatest magical cultures of the Forgotten Realms.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
No need unless you wanna change things from how they are in the PHB: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/personality-and-background#Languages).
Happy to help.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
It always depend on the importance of the text in translation to my campaign story, if it's really critical to the plot to understand crucial part of it to advance the story, i will be generous with what i dispense with the Intelligence check or will easily let the party find someone in a settlement to translate it for them, especially if it's not an exotic language or one with extraplanar origins.