One of my players, who I have been playing with for 2-3 years, has only ever played sorcerer, and refuses to even try other classes. He minmaxes for damage, and ignores roleplay. I want him to understand that there is more to dnd than fireballsand meteor swarms (Although orcs and fireballs do mix well). Any good ideas on how to get him to try a new class?
I have a rule in my games - if you die and bring in a new character, it can not be the same class as the old character. Also, can't just remake the same character you had elsewhere. I also know someone who generally plays the same character in every campaign (remaking it over and over), personally I don't understand why the other DMs in our group allow this, but that is for them to decide. However, in my campaigns, he must (and does) play something different.
But in the end, you have a choice to make. Is forcing them to play something else worth having them walk away?
Have you tried talking to them to find out why they do this? What is it about that they enjoy? Perhaps you could point out something that they may enjoy more?
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
I don't really have a problem with players wanting to play the same class all the time. It's their jam and they like it. D&D is supposed to be fun and that's what they find fun.
It is also possible they are looking to build a certain schtick. There was a time when I applied to a bunch of games with basically the same build - a PC built around throwing weapons. I kept doing it because I either didn't get accepted into the campaign or the campaign fell apart. I was never able to make that idea come to fruition.
Requiring that a player play something else can backfire and have them walk from your table. On the other hand most will generally play along so they can keep playing.
Have a talk with the player and see where they are at. You can suggest they try something they have never played before - you never know until to try kind of deal. BUT as GM it is wrong to force a player to choose a certain class just because you said so. **The exception being where the campaign is based on a certain party makeup**
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Is it actually a problem that they're always playing a Sorceror? So long as they're having fun and it's not preventing anyone else playing the class what's the issue? From what you've said it seems you have a bigger problem with him not roleplaying but again if it's not harming anyone is that an issue? I've got plenty of players at my table who prefer certain classes and aren't the best roleplayers but so long as everyone still enjoys the session there's no issue
What is wrong if a player likes playing a specific class of character and really enjoys using the same class in different games?
That other player isn't you or I or others who might like a range of characters and play styles .. they may really love the sorcerer spell mechanics and flexibility in casting. Maybe they like the vibe. If they were really min-maxing for the most damage, they might multiclass or mix in some other options. A plain sorcerer really isn't unbalanced or challenging to deal with in a party. Basically, a player with a sorcerer character isn't generally any sort of problem to the DM or to the game balance. So, what reason would you have to force the player to play a character they may not like and don't want to play?
Hypothetically, perhaps the player is missing out on experiencing more of what the game has to offer. However, it isn't really up to the DM, other players or anyone else to try to force them out of their comfort zone - especially if they are having fun and not disrupting the game for others. The same goes for roleplaying. Some folks are really good at it, enjoy using voices, making decisions in character even if they might not be the optimal choice in a particular situation. Others are very self-conscious and only use 3rd person when referring to what actions the character takes in the game. There is nothing wrong with that either. I've found that the best way to open other people's horizons is to try to run the game so that various characters get to shine and contribute, where the DM can take the lead on role playing and hopefully get some of the other players responding in kind. Maybe after a while, the reticent player will start to role play a bit as well from time to time. It may not happen, especially if they really enjoy the tactical combat aspects and aren't engaged by the other elements as much - but if you want them to try new things and role play more then, in my experience, the best way is often to just encourage those aspects in your game and expose the player to them so that they decide themselves to expand their horizons a bit.
I agree with all the posters above - if a player really likes a class thematically and its his jam - forcing them to play something else will likely force them to another group.
D&D is about having FUN and if that is his fun who cares - and if he min maxes - for many players - myself included that is part of the fun when I am on the player side.
I am running a group right now with 2 min maxers and 4 casual players its on me to balance the encounters not them to change their play styles.
yeah. if they want to be a scorcerer, let them be a scorcerer. (I myself have a love/hate relationship with sorcerers) scorcerers are cool, and if that's their jam, let them
or stack the deck against scorcerers, I don't care
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I'm wondering what people would say if a player simply didn't want to try any other class. The player I have in mind also doesn't want to get into magic, they have player more than once, a bard that doesn't use nay magic.
I truly feel like they would have a lot more fun if they tried out magic, or just something new, but my players and I have not been able to convince them.
I'm wondering what people would say if a player simply didn't want to try any other class. The player I have in mind also doesn't want to get into magic, they have player more than once, a bard that doesn't use nay magic.
I truly feel like they would have a lot more fun if they tried out magic, or just something new, but my players and I have not been able to convince them.
That’s an interesting one. I get not wanting to deal with magic, it’s complicated and a lot of people aren’t here for the amount of micromanaging that spells and spell slots need, but playing a primary spell caster like a Bard and not using magic is sort of like playing a barbarian that doesn’t rage or a rogue that doesn’t sneak attack. You’re basically tying one hand behind your back and ignoring the main reason the class exists
Exactly. Thankfully, we've shown them that well, if they want the bard for the fighting music combo, be a fighter and take the entertainer background. Not exactly the same, but it does the job.
When player characters end up relying on the same spells over and over again is about when I throw Helmed Horror at them. I make the Horror immune to the spells that see the most usage. That usually ends up signalling that there's more to the game than the way they are choosing to play. Likewise, enemies with immunities to the damage types favoured by player characters are a great way to shake up the challenges and break out of that routine.
[Edit] - That said, I don't really mind if a player uses the same class or same builds over and over if that's their thing. If they are enjoying themselves and no-one at the table minds then they can go for it.
Some (most) players do not even fully grasp all the intricacies of more complicated subclass - racial builds until they have played it through a few times - honestly it is incomprehensible to me that as a dm folks are pushing people out of what they want to play in a hobby that is supposed to be some casual fun/decompress time.
As for adding immunities to specific mobs to just mess with a players build - well any "player" who is also a DM would see through that immediately -(I have had a dm do this to me recently - blah) - lol there are so many more creative ways to handle high dps players. I take the opposite approach if the campaign is heavy with mobs that resist a players build I give them a means of changing damage type so they can be effective and enjoy the sessions. Again I thought the object was for the players to have fun - not to frustrate them.
If someone enjoys a class and plays it well, it seems like it doesn't matter if they play the same one all the time. Indeed, having someone know the rules inside and out of the class they play is potentially a wonderful addition to the table.
It sounds to me that what is not fun for you is that they don't roleplay and that they use the same spells all the time. As mentioned, not everyone is good at RP or interested in really getting into different characters, but you probably can get them to learn and appreciate a new spell or two. Set up an encounter where fireball and meteor swarm isn't going to be a good fit, telegraph that in advance in a way that they can consider and select some different spells, and see what happens. I don't see that as punishing the player, but rather making new challenges that require learning just a little bit more or a bit of creative thought.
Of course, not everyone wants to learn more or be creative, and maybe your Sorcerer just wants to lob fireballs in support of a party that is vibrant around them. That's totally usable too, if everyone is having a good time. Consider how much of your concern is about "I'm worried the other players aren't having a good time because I fear Sorcerer is kind of a drag for them" vs "Dang, I'm tired of engaging with fireballs in combat" and make your choices accordingly.
If a player is a table where they can observe other classes and they still only ever want to play a sorcerer, they have found the thing they like. If you want to give them the option later, just allow multiclassing so they can dip their toe without being locked into something they don't like. Some people like to min/max and that is where their fun is. As long as it is not disruptive to the table (and I don't see how locking in sorcerer would), then help the players have fun in their way.
The only reason I might nudge someone to switch things up is if you regularly play with the same group and it's making it hard for others to try out sorcerer/wizard who want to (even that only really matters if it's a smallish group where redundancy in abilities hurts more). Otherwise, having a favorite class is harmless enough.
Not engaging with the story/roleplay is a bit more of a conundrum and may be indicative of a mismatch between player and group. You can't really force someone to be interested in things they're not interested in, and yet a lone hack-n-slash enthusiast in a roleplaying-heavy group can be disruptive (can be; if they're patient with the story and just don't have much to add to it, that's probably not a major issue). Not their fault unless they go out of their way to make it everybody else's problem, just a mismatch.
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One of my players, who I have been playing with for 2-3 years, has only ever played sorcerer, and refuses to even try other classes. He minmaxes for damage, and ignores roleplay. I want him to understand that there is more to dnd than fireballs and meteor swarms (Although orcs and fireballs do mix well). Any good ideas on how to get him to try a new class?
Are you really sure about that?
I have a rule in my games - if you die and bring in a new character, it can not be the same class as the old character. Also, can't just remake the same character you had elsewhere. I also know someone who generally plays the same character in every campaign (remaking it over and over), personally I don't understand why the other DMs in our group allow this, but that is for them to decide. However, in my campaigns, he must (and does) play something different.
But in the end, you have a choice to make. Is forcing them to play something else worth having them walk away?
Have you tried talking to them to find out why they do this? What is it about that they enjoy? Perhaps you could point out something that they may enjoy more?
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Thank You! I will try to talk to him and understand.
Are you really sure about that?
I don't really have a problem with players wanting to play the same class all the time. It's their jam and they like it. D&D is supposed to be fun and that's what they find fun.
It is also possible they are looking to build a certain schtick. There was a time when I applied to a bunch of games with basically the same build - a PC built around throwing weapons. I kept doing it because I either didn't get accepted into the campaign or the campaign fell apart. I was never able to make that idea come to fruition.
Requiring that a player play something else can backfire and have them walk from your table. On the other hand most will generally play along so they can keep playing.
Have a talk with the player and see where they are at. You can suggest they try something they have never played before - you never know until to try kind of deal. BUT as GM it is wrong to force a player to choose a certain class just because you said so. **The exception being where the campaign is based on a certain party makeup**
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Is it actually a problem that they're always playing a Sorceror? So long as they're having fun and it's not preventing anyone else playing the class what's the issue? From what you've said it seems you have a bigger problem with him not roleplaying but again if it's not harming anyone is that an issue? I've got plenty of players at my table who prefer certain classes and aren't the best roleplayers but so long as everyone still enjoys the session there's no issue
I'd tend to agree with the other posts ..
What is wrong if a player likes playing a specific class of character and really enjoys using the same class in different games?
That other player isn't you or I or others who might like a range of characters and play styles .. they may really love the sorcerer spell mechanics and flexibility in casting. Maybe they like the vibe. If they were really min-maxing for the most damage, they might multiclass or mix in some other options. A plain sorcerer really isn't unbalanced or challenging to deal with in a party. Basically, a player with a sorcerer character isn't generally any sort of problem to the DM or to the game balance. So, what reason would you have to force the player to play a character they may not like and don't want to play?
Hypothetically, perhaps the player is missing out on experiencing more of what the game has to offer. However, it isn't really up to the DM, other players or anyone else to try to force them out of their comfort zone - especially if they are having fun and not disrupting the game for others. The same goes for roleplaying. Some folks are really good at it, enjoy using voices, making decisions in character even if they might not be the optimal choice in a particular situation. Others are very self-conscious and only use 3rd person when referring to what actions the character takes in the game. There is nothing wrong with that either. I've found that the best way to open other people's horizons is to try to run the game so that various characters get to shine and contribute, where the DM can take the lead on role playing and hopefully get some of the other players responding in kind. Maybe after a while, the reticent player will start to role play a bit as well from time to time. It may not happen, especially if they really enjoy the tactical combat aspects and aren't engaged by the other elements as much - but if you want them to try new things and role play more then, in my experience, the best way is often to just encourage those aspects in your game and expose the player to them so that they decide themselves to expand their horizons a bit.
I agree with all the posters above - if a player really likes a class thematically and its his jam - forcing them to play something else will likely force them to another group.
D&D is about having FUN and if that is his fun who cares - and if he min maxes - for many players - myself included that is part of the fun when I am on the player side.
I am running a group right now with 2 min maxers and 4 casual players its on me to balance the encounters not them to change their play styles.
$.02
yeah. if they want to be a scorcerer, let them be a scorcerer. (I myself have a love/hate relationship with sorcerers) scorcerers are cool, and if that's their jam, let them
or stack the deck against scorcerers, I don't care
Pronouns: Any/All
About Me: Godless monster in human form bent on extending their natural life to unnatural extremes /general of the goose horde /Moderator of Vinstreb School for the Gifted /holder of the evil storyteller badge of no honor /king of madness /The FBI/ The Archmage of I CAST...!
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Fun Fact: i gain more power the more you post on my forum threads. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
I'm wondering what people would say if a player simply didn't want to try any other class.
The player I have in mind also doesn't want to get into magic, they have player more than once, a bard that doesn't use nay magic.
I truly feel like they would have a lot more fun if they tried out magic, or just something new, but my players and I have not been able to convince them.
That’s an interesting one. I get not wanting to deal with magic, it’s complicated and a lot of people aren’t here for the amount of micromanaging that spells and spell slots need, but playing a primary spell caster like a Bard and not using magic is sort of like playing a barbarian that doesn’t rage or a rogue that doesn’t sneak attack. You’re basically tying one hand behind your back and ignoring the main reason the class exists
Exactly. Thankfully, we've shown them that well, if they want the bard for the fighting music combo, be a fighter and take the entertainer background. Not exactly the same, but it does the job.
When player characters end up relying on the same spells over and over again is about when I throw Helmed Horror at them. I make the Horror immune to the spells that see the most usage. That usually ends up signalling that there's more to the game than the way they are choosing to play. Likewise, enemies with immunities to the damage types favoured by player characters are a great way to shake up the challenges and break out of that routine.
[Edit] - That said, I don't really mind if a player uses the same class or same builds over and over if that's their thing. If they are enjoying themselves and no-one at the table minds then they can go for it.
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Some (most) players do not even fully grasp all the intricacies of more complicated subclass - racial builds until they have played it through a few times - honestly it is incomprehensible to me that as a dm folks are pushing people out of what they want to play in a hobby that is supposed to be some casual fun/decompress time.
As for adding immunities to specific mobs to just mess with a players build - well any "player" who is also a DM would see through that immediately -(I have had a dm do this to me recently - blah) - lol there are so many more creative ways to handle high dps players. I take the opposite approach if the campaign is heavy with mobs that resist a players build I give them a means of changing damage type so they can be effective and enjoy the sessions. Again I thought the object was for the players to have fun - not to frustrate them.
Hey to each their own.
If someone enjoys a class and plays it well, it seems like it doesn't matter if they play the same one all the time. Indeed, having someone know the rules inside and out of the class they play is potentially a wonderful addition to the table.
It sounds to me that what is not fun for you is that they don't roleplay and that they use the same spells all the time. As mentioned, not everyone is good at RP or interested in really getting into different characters, but you probably can get them to learn and appreciate a new spell or two. Set up an encounter where fireball and meteor swarm isn't going to be a good fit, telegraph that in advance in a way that they can consider and select some different spells, and see what happens. I don't see that as punishing the player, but rather making new challenges that require learning just a little bit more or a bit of creative thought.
Of course, not everyone wants to learn more or be creative, and maybe your Sorcerer just wants to lob fireballs in support of a party that is vibrant around them. That's totally usable too, if everyone is having a good time. Consider how much of your concern is about "I'm worried the other players aren't having a good time because I fear Sorcerer is kind of a drag for them" vs "Dang, I'm tired of engaging with fireballs in combat" and make your choices accordingly.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
If a player is a table where they can observe other classes and they still only ever want to play a sorcerer, they have found the thing they like. If you want to give them the option later, just allow multiclassing so they can dip their toe without being locked into something they don't like. Some people like to min/max and that is where their fun is. As long as it is not disruptive to the table (and I don't see how locking in sorcerer would), then help the players have fun in their way.
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The only reason I might nudge someone to switch things up is if you regularly play with the same group and it's making it hard for others to try out sorcerer/wizard who want to (even that only really matters if it's a smallish group where redundancy in abilities hurts more). Otherwise, having a favorite class is harmless enough.
Not engaging with the story/roleplay is a bit more of a conundrum and may be indicative of a mismatch between player and group. You can't really force someone to be interested in things they're not interested in, and yet a lone hack-n-slash enthusiast in a roleplaying-heavy group can be disruptive (can be; if they're patient with the story and just don't have much to add to it, that's probably not a major issue). Not their fault unless they go out of their way to make it everybody else's problem, just a mismatch.
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