So I've made this battlemap. What do you think it's a good DC to climb those rocks? The rocks are apparently smooth, with no grips. Should I do just one DC for the whole climbing or like 1 test every 3 meters or so? If the players climb this they will have a serious advantage on the encounter
Make it a skill challenge of three skill checks to beat a certain DC they don't have to use strength if the players play smart you can immediately end the skill challenge.
Smooth with no grips I’d say is simply impossible without climbing equipment or some kind of magic.
It is kinda hard to tell how deep the texturing on the rock is from this photo. Some of it might be deep enough finger/toeholds to climb it, or might not. 🤷♂️ That’s a DM by DM call to make.
Do you intend for them to attempt the climb during the encounter, or before when there’s not the pressure of battle?
During the encounter, I’d agree with the others and say it’s impassable, because the characters will be too busy trying not to die. If it’s before, I’d either give it a high DC, or just give them a certain amount of time to figure out a solution. Depending on level and party composition, it might not even be a challenge (echo knight swap, misty step, dimension door, fly, etc.).
As far as smooth with no hand holds, is this worked stone, or somehow magically altered? Because there are usually small holds on natural stone. The kinds of little crevices or protrusions that most people would consider smooth, but experienced climbers can just zip right up them. Again, depending on party composition and background, some might be able to climb it more easily than others. I know I’ve seen people at the climbing gym doing pull-ups holding on with three fingers on only one hand.
Even with climbing gear it might be pretty dangerous to go up, depending on just how solid the rock actually is. On the other hand, this is D&D, not a reality simulator, so I'd probably set it at a high but achievable DC such as 20.
If you choose to do multiple I would do one per turn or maybe one per action / movement (i.e a player with a walking speed of 30ft and no climbing speed can climb 15ft with their movement and can take the dash action for another 15ft so you could do that as a single check or a check for each. If you are under initiative I would go this way if not then you can choose (a single check takes less time but that an be good or bad)
What happens on a fail are they left on the wall unable to find a route up or does it result in a fall? You might find the players want to thhrow a grappling hook up and then climb if you allow this it would make sense that the result of a fail is no upward movement rather than a fall.
For DC there are to approaches to this, basing it on realism and basing it on results. Bear in mind they might have other means of getting up things like misty step (via fey touched feat) flying races mean getting up becomes trivial and by about level 5 most parties would be equiped to get up some sort of easy way.
Note that RAW having a climbing speed does not make a climb easier it just doubles the speed, this could however mean they need less checks (you can also house rule advantage or a lower DC)
Realism: An average person (commoner) would have a +0 in athlettics so would would have no chance of success with a DC of 21 or more and a 50% chance of climbing something with a DC of 11. An olympic standard rock climber might have a modifier of something like +12 (strength 18, expertise in athletics and a proficiency bonus of 4) If you split the climb into sections you consider what are the chances of getting that far up. Smooth with no grips would mean it would not be possbile to climb but expert climbers are able to climb using very small imperfections in the rock which might be "apparently smooth with no grips". If you would want the climb to be something an olympic standard climber could do 75% of the time without issues set the DC appropriately (e.g. 18 for a single pitch 14 for 3 pitches). If they have climbing gear it is up to you to decide whether the rock is soft enough to hammer in pitons to make the climbing possible / easier.
Results Decide how likely you want the party to succeed if you want the figher with an athletics if +5 to have a 50% chance of getting up set the DC 16 for a single pitch, this would mean the wizard with +0 woukld have a 25% chance of getting up. If a failure means a return to the bottom (if attached rope on an overhang you could rule that a fall results in having to be lowered to the ground but that does appear the case here) you can lower the wizards chances relative to the fighter (two pitches with DC 13 mean the fighter still has a 50% chance but the wizard is down to 16%)
I'd probably break these into multiple checks maybe for 8M do 2 checks of 15-20 if they have climbing gear (can't exactly see how easy it would be to free climb due to textures).
Then for the 16M maybe do 3 or 4 checks (read the room if it's getting tiresome for the players then just cut it short) of the same 15-20 with climbing gear.
Entirely up to you as DM and depends on whether you want to allow a chance for the players to get up there or not.
1) Do the characters have climbing gear?
2) Do any of the characters have a climb speed?
3) Do any of the characters have an ability that would make this trivial? (eg spider climb)
Your statement that is is smooth with no grips sounds like a vertical sheet of solid marble. In this case you can't climb it at all unless you make your own grips and supports using climbing gear and hammering in a new step every ~12-24" or use magic.
However, if there are any sort of holds or small notches then a creature with a climb speed is likely to be able to scale it with little difficulty (I've watched someone in real life scale a wall where the grips were at most 1/4" to 1/2" - the person only needed the slightest bit of grip to scale a 20' wall without any gear and wearing sneakers - it was impressive to watch) ... so a creature that knows how to climb could make use of even the smallest hand holds.
For average character carrying 80 lbs of gear - I think you would need some substantial hand and foot holds to make such a climb reasonable.
So everything comes back to what sort of difficulty YOU want to make the situation - do you want it to be relatively easy or virtually impossible? Once you decide, you can decide how many and what sort of check you want.
Keep in mind though that if the party has enough time and some climbing gear then the best climbing character is likely to climb 10' - hammer in a piton, attach a rope - climb another 10', rinse and repeat. They then can fall at most 10' and even then don't hit the ground - mostly just tighten their rope. When they are done there is a rope going to the top and everyone else can tie off and ascend along it without any checks being needed since there are no consequences if they slip. So, if your players come up with such a plan, have the equipment and the time - ask yourself how much game time is it worth to run a task where the players will succeed anyway with limited risk.
So I've made this battlemap. What do you think it's a good DC to climb those rocks? The rocks are apparently smooth, with no grips. Should I do just one DC for the whole climbing or like 1 test every 3 meters or so? If the players climb this they will have a serious advantage on the encounter
Bold, using metric in D&D. So the shorter one is between 26 and 27 feet (i.e. if you're on a grid it's functionally 30 feet) and the taller one is between 52 and 53 (so 55 on a grid).
Not sure what DC you'd set since you haven't specified what skill you're proposing to use, but I'd rule as follows:
Anyone with technically a pair of climber's kits (this is stupid, no-one is going to buy 1 climber's kit with their RAW, so you might as well just assume all kits have 2 anchors and double their weight and price) can climb their reach (generally 5 feet for PCs) every round by using an action to pound in the new anchor, their movement to climb up 5 feet (no check, just climbing the anchors), and their item interaction to detach the lower anchor. For most PCs, this means the two climbs will take 36 seconds and 66 seconds, respectively (cut these in half for a bugbear). Because that feels very fast, I'd probably also nerf climber's kits so you need a full action to detach the old anchor, which means you need 2 rounds per reach feet moved except for the last bit (since you can let yourself stay anchored down and do whatever your other business was up there).
Most climbing speeds won't help in any meaningful way, but if anyone has a climbing speed that lets them ignore ability checks to climb - like if the party Druid turns into a Giant Wolf Spider - I'd set the DC to infinity, let them ignore the check, and move on without needing to pick an actual ability check to make. If a climbing speed doesn't say it ignores checks but it does say it allows things that should be impossible, like the Dhampir climb speed, I'd probably allow that, too - this can't be harder than walking on a ceiling without using your hands.
Likewise, other abilities that explicitly just work, like if someone casts Spider Climb or the party has a level 9 monk in it, would just work here.
And, of course, anyone with some other clever movement tricks to get up there can use them, too, like flight, jumping really high, burrowing (if you have a burrow speed that will work on solid rock, which is hard but far from impossible to get), or whatever. The lower climb is short enough that teleporting up there is achievable at level 1.
So, no DC, no skillcheck. The party either brings the necessary tools to completely circumvent the challenge or they completely fail, because the rock face is unclimbable.
One Climb check per Climb speed. If your climb speed is 50, you do one check every 50 ft. Climb speed of 15, one check every 15 ft.
Normal climb speed is 1/2 your walking speed (Technically the rule is if you do not have a climb speed, 1 ft of climbing costs an extra 1 ft, i.e. half climb speed). Difficult terrain makes it 1/3 ("2 extra feet"). Difficult terrain does not mean a difficult climb, it means climbing while wet, or with somebody holding on to your body, etc.
So normal people can climb 15 ft or about 5 meters in a single Move action.
DC's are based on how the DM feels about things. Very easy = DC 5, Nearly Impossible = 30. 25 pt spread. Typical DC's tend to be 15. Here is how I would do it: Two main categories for making things difficult are smoothness/hand held and Slope. Slope is basically 4 categories: steep slope (+0), near vertical (+5) , inverted (+10), and near horizontal/ceiling (+15). Smooth is natural (+0), worked (+5), polished (+10),
For me a DC 30 climb should be climbing on a ceiling, on a perfectly smooth, polished marble. DC 5 means going up a steep hill that requires you to use your hands, rather than just walk.
That rock is not worked at all, totally natural with hand holds. +0 DC. It is mostly nearly vertical, but you can pick a route that is not inverted. +5 to DC. DC 10 climb, if they take the easier routes If they want to end up at certain ares, that may require an inverted section, so DC 15 at those locations.
Add +2 to DC (12 and 17) if they have no equipment at all (rope, pitons).
But if they have proper equipment (rope AND pitons) plus someone proficient with climbing/rope use, I would rule that when someone tied to you fails a Climb check, next guy on the rope gets a strength check to catch their fall rather than be pulled off. If no pitons, but a rope, disadvantage. If you are between two people,. best strength makes the check at advantage. Two people failing means a third guy gets a strength check at -5 penalty. Three people falling = 4th guy at -10 penalty, etc. etc. etc.
For me a DC 30 climb should be climbing on a ceiling, on a perfectly smooth, polished marble.
I would classify that as "impossible without special abilities", not "nearly impossible". Nearly impossible is "I can imagine someone doing it, but you'd have to do everything totally perfectly".
Going directly up most of the sheer surfaces there is impossible, not nearly impossible, but both sides appear to have wedges that seem like they should be technically possible.
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So I've made this battlemap. What do you think it's a good DC to climb those rocks? The rocks are apparently smooth, with no grips. Should I do just one DC for the whole climbing or like 1 test every 3 meters or so? If the players climb this they will have a serious advantage on the encounter
Make it a skill challenge of three skill checks to beat a certain DC they don't have to use strength if the players play smart you can immediately end the skill challenge.
Smooth with no grips I’d say is simply impossible without climbing equipment or some kind of magic.
It is kinda hard to tell how deep the texturing on the rock is from this photo. Some of it might be deep enough finger/toeholds to climb it, or might not. 🤷♂️ That’s a DM by DM call to make.
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Hmm it seems I can't read, it looks impossible to climb without climbing gear or climbing speed.
Do you intend for them to attempt the climb during the encounter, or before when there’s not the pressure of battle?
During the encounter, I’d agree with the others and say it’s impassable, because the characters will be too busy trying not to die. If it’s before, I’d either give it a high DC, or just give them a certain amount of time to figure out a solution. Depending on level and party composition, it might not even be a challenge (echo knight swap, misty step, dimension door, fly, etc.).
As far as smooth with no hand holds, is this worked stone, or somehow magically altered? Because there are usually small holds on natural stone. The kinds of little crevices or protrusions that most people would consider smooth, but experienced climbers can just zip right up them. Again, depending on party composition and background, some might be able to climb it more easily than others. I know I’ve seen people at the climbing gym doing pull-ups holding on with three fingers on only one hand.
Even with climbing gear it might be pretty dangerous to go up, depending on just how solid the rock actually is. On the other hand, this is D&D, not a reality simulator, so I'd probably set it at a high but achievable DC such as 20.
If you choose to do multiple I would do one per turn or maybe one per action / movement (i.e a player with a walking speed of 30ft and no climbing speed can climb 15ft with their movement and can take the dash action for another 15ft so you could do that as a single check or a check for each. If you are under initiative I would go this way if not then you can choose (a single check takes less time but that an be good or bad)
What happens on a fail are they left on the wall unable to find a route up or does it result in a fall? You might find the players want to thhrow a grappling hook up and then climb if you allow this it would make sense that the result of a fail is no upward movement rather than a fall.
For DC there are to approaches to this, basing it on realism and basing it on results. Bear in mind they might have other means of getting up things like misty step (via fey touched feat) flying races mean getting up becomes trivial and by about level 5 most parties would be equiped to get up some sort of easy way.
Note that RAW having a climbing speed does not make a climb easier it just doubles the speed, this could however mean they need less checks (you can also house rule advantage or a lower DC)
Realism:
An average person (commoner) would have a +0 in athlettics so would would have no chance of success with a DC of 21 or more and a 50% chance of climbing something with a DC of 11.
An olympic standard rock climber might have a modifier of something like +12 (strength 18, expertise in athletics and a proficiency bonus of 4)
If you split the climb into sections you consider what are the chances of getting that far up.
Smooth with no grips would mean it would not be possbile to climb but expert climbers are able to climb using very small imperfections in the rock which might be "apparently smooth with no grips". If you would want the climb to be something an olympic standard climber could do 75% of the time without issues set the DC appropriately (e.g. 18 for a single pitch 14 for 3 pitches). If they have climbing gear it is up to you to decide whether the rock is soft enough to hammer in pitons to make the climbing possible / easier.
Results
Decide how likely you want the party to succeed if you want the figher with an athletics if +5 to have a 50% chance of getting up set the DC 16 for a single pitch, this would mean the wizard with +0 woukld have a 25% chance of getting up. If a failure means a return to the bottom (if attached rope on an overhang you could rule that a fall results in having to be lowered to the ground but that does appear the case here) you can lower the wizards chances relative to the fighter (two pitches with DC 13 mean the fighter still has a 50% chance but the wizard is down to 16%)
Just make your ruling man. Yours is as good as any of ours.
There is not a “SET IN STONE” way to do this. Couldn’t resist ;)
I'd probably break these into multiple checks maybe for 8M do 2 checks of 15-20 if they have climbing gear (can't exactly see how easy it would be to free climb due to textures).
Then for the 16M maybe do 3 or 4 checks (read the room if it's getting tiresome for the players then just cut it short) of the same 15-20 with climbing gear.
Entirely up to you as DM and depends on whether you want to allow a chance for the players to get up there or not.
1) Do the characters have climbing gear?
2) Do any of the characters have a climb speed?
3) Do any of the characters have an ability that would make this trivial? (eg spider climb)
Your statement that is is smooth with no grips sounds like a vertical sheet of solid marble. In this case you can't climb it at all unless you make your own grips and supports using climbing gear and hammering in a new step every ~12-24" or use magic.
However, if there are any sort of holds or small notches then a creature with a climb speed is likely to be able to scale it with little difficulty (I've watched someone in real life scale a wall where the grips were at most 1/4" to 1/2" - the person only needed the slightest bit of grip to scale a 20' wall without any gear and wearing sneakers - it was impressive to watch) ... so a creature that knows how to climb could make use of even the smallest hand holds.
For average character carrying 80 lbs of gear - I think you would need some substantial hand and foot holds to make such a climb reasonable.
So everything comes back to what sort of difficulty YOU want to make the situation - do you want it to be relatively easy or virtually impossible? Once you decide, you can decide how many and what sort of check you want.
Keep in mind though that if the party has enough time and some climbing gear then the best climbing character is likely to climb 10' - hammer in a piton, attach a rope - climb another 10', rinse and repeat. They then can fall at most 10' and even then don't hit the ground - mostly just tighten their rope. When they are done there is a rope going to the top and everyone else can tie off and ascend along it without any checks being needed since there are no consequences if they slip. So, if your players come up with such a plan, have the equipment and the time - ask yourself how much game time is it worth to run a task where the players will succeed anyway with limited risk.
Bold, using metric in D&D. So the shorter one is between 26 and 27 feet (i.e. if you're on a grid it's functionally 30 feet) and the taller one is between 52 and 53 (so 55 on a grid).
Not sure what DC you'd set since you haven't specified what skill you're proposing to use, but I'd rule as follows:
So, no DC, no skillcheck. The party either brings the necessary tools to completely circumvent the challenge or they completely fail, because the rock face is unclimbable.
One Climb check per Climb speed. If your climb speed is 50, you do one check every 50 ft. Climb speed of 15, one check every 15 ft.
Normal climb speed is 1/2 your walking speed (Technically the rule is if you do not have a climb speed, 1 ft of climbing costs an extra 1 ft, i.e. half climb speed). Difficult terrain makes it 1/3 ("2 extra feet"). Difficult terrain does not mean a difficult climb, it means climbing while wet, or with somebody holding on to your body, etc.
So normal people can climb 15 ft or about 5 meters in a single Move action.
DC's are based on how the DM feels about things. Very easy = DC 5, Nearly Impossible = 30. 25 pt spread. Typical DC's tend to be 15. Here is how I would do it: Two main categories for making things difficult are smoothness/hand held and Slope. Slope is basically 4 categories: steep slope (+0), near vertical (+5) , inverted (+10), and near horizontal/ceiling (+15). Smooth is natural (+0), worked (+5), polished (+10),
For me a DC 30 climb should be climbing on a ceiling, on a perfectly smooth, polished marble. DC 5 means going up a steep hill that requires you to use your hands, rather than just walk.
That rock is not worked at all, totally natural with hand holds. +0 DC. It is mostly nearly vertical, but you can pick a route that is not inverted. +5 to DC. DC 10 climb, if they take the easier routes If they want to end up at certain ares, that may require an inverted section, so DC 15 at those locations.
Add +2 to DC (12 and 17) if they have no equipment at all (rope, pitons).
But if they have proper equipment (rope AND pitons) plus someone proficient with climbing/rope use, I would rule that when someone tied to you fails a Climb check, next guy on the rope gets a strength check to catch their fall rather than be pulled off. If no pitons, but a rope, disadvantage. If you are between two people,. best strength makes the check at advantage. Two people failing means a third guy gets a strength check at -5 penalty. Three people falling = 4th guy at -10 penalty, etc. etc. etc.
I would classify that as "impossible without special abilities", not "nearly impossible". Nearly impossible is "I can imagine someone doing it, but you'd have to do everything totally perfectly".
Going directly up most of the sheer surfaces there is impossible, not nearly impossible, but both sides appear to have wedges that seem like they should be technically possible.