I think Bladesinger is far more versatile, since it gets access to all wizard spells and can join melee combat.
If you want a spellcasting melee fighter and don't mind being an elf, Bladesinger is imo simply better than Eldritch Knight in every way, including combat.
Even if you're out of Bladesong, with Mage Armor alone you'll have 16 AC at level 1 and the option to bump it up to 21 with Shield if you need it. If you're using a Finesse weapon, you'll have similar to-hit and damage like a fighter and later on you gain access to spells like Blur and Mirror Image long before the EK.
Out of combat you have spells and rituals for all purposes and you even recover some spell slots during short rests.
I've always felt it's a bit overpowered myself, definitely better than the EK. Not to the point where I've banned it, but I avoid picking it as a player. I'm not a fan of "best of both worlds" builds.
The bladesinger is fairly focused on not getting hit. They can get incredible AC, but one hit and they lose concentration and everything goes downhill from their. Bladesingers are probably better overall then Eldritch Knights, but are much more of a glass cannon.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
The bladesinger is fairly focused on not getting hit. They can get incredible AC, but one hit and they lose concentration and everything goes downhill from their. Bladesingers are probably better overall then Eldritch Knights, but are much more of a glass cannon.
Can Eldritch Knights continue concentrating after taking damage
The bladesinger is fairly focused on not getting hit. They can get incredible AC, but one hit and they lose concentration and everything goes downhill from their. Bladesingers are probably better overall then Eldritch Knights, but are much more of a glass cannon.
Can Eldritch Knights continue concentrating after taking damage
After taking damage, you have to make a constitution saving throw equal to 10+the damage you took. If you fail, you lose concentration. While Eldritch Knights aren't any better at keeping concentration, concentration is so essential to Bladesingers that it destroys them if they lose it.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
This is a great example of things that benefit disproportionally from different play styles. The bladeslinger benefits a lot from methods of point score generation that have higher scores since they need int and dex to both be very high and still have enough con. Also, the bladeslinger needs to have enough spell slots (and uses of song of blades), so they would suffer in games that have a lot of combat between long rests.
I think the biggest drawback of the Bladesinger is that it was released too early being in one of the first sourcebooks. I would like to see a few tweaks to bring the melee element a bit more to the forefront.
Allow the use of Intelligence as a melee weapon stat at level 2. (this could allow a wider variety of weapons, mainly the longsword a traditional elven weapon as a viable choice). This wasn't really a concept in 5th edition as a caster til Xanathar's and the Hexblade, this would benefit the Bladesinger as well.
Let them wear elven chain and use their Bladesong, this is based in lore from when they were created in 2nd edition and the little write up on them in The Complete Book of the Elves.
Change Song of Victory at 14th to Battle Magic (lore bard), this would make more sense as a melee/magic tradition.
This is just a minor wish list, they still play ok, but I see many people just stand in the back and cast spells with Bladesong going, it kind of misses the point of the tradition.
The bladesinger is fairly focused on not getting hit. They can get incredible AC, but one hit and they lose concentration and everything goes downhill from their. Bladesingers are probably better overall then Eldritch Knights, but are much more of a glass cannon.
This depends a lot on the level. Bladesong gives intelligence to constitution saves right from level 2. In this range you can lose concentration, but with a +5 to the save that will at these levels mostly be against DC10 it's quite unlikely.
With level 4 you can pick up Warcaster which gives Advantage on concentration checks and allows you to dual wield shortswords without limiting your casting.
At level 10 you can also "burn" spellslots to avoid damage, which also lowers the DC of your concentration check.
And once you reach level 18 and get Shield at will you don't need concentration at all.
I think the biggest drawback of the Bladesinger is that it was released too early being in one of the first sourcebooks. I would like to see a few tweaks to bring the melee element a bit more to the forefront.
Allow the use of Intelligence as a melee weapon stat at level 2. (this could allow a wider variety of weapons, mainly the longsword a traditional elven weapon as a viable choice). This wasn't really a concept in 5th edition as a caster til Xanathar's and the Hexblade, this would benefit the Bladesinger as well.
Let them wear elven chain and use their Bladesong, this is based in lore from when they were created in 2nd edition and the little write up on them in The Complete Book of the Elves.
Change Song of Victory at 14th to Battle Magic (lore bard), this would make more sense as a melee/magic tradition.
This is just a minor wish list, they still play ok, but I see many people just stand in the back and cast spells with Bladesong going, it kind of misses the point of the tradition.
I agree with you about elven chain. Do you like the Hexblade better than the Bladesinger?
I think the biggest drawback of the Bladesinger is that it was released too early being in one of the first sourcebooks. I would like to see a few tweaks to bring the melee element a bit more to the forefront.
Allow the use of Intelligence as a melee weapon stat at level 2. (this could allow a wider variety of weapons, mainly the longsword a traditional elven weapon as a viable choice). This wasn't really a concept in 5th edition as a caster til Xanathar's and the Hexblade, this would benefit the Bladesinger as well.
Let them wear elven chain and use their Bladesong, this is based in lore from when they were created in 2nd edition and the little write up on them in The Complete Book of the Elves.
Change Song of Victory at 14th to Battle Magic (lore bard), this would make more sense as a melee/magic tradition.
This is just a minor wish list, they still play ok, but I see many people just stand in the back and cast spells with Bladesong going, it kind of misses the point of the tradition.
I don't think that Bladesingers should be able to use Intelligence as their attack stat. We already have Hexblade and Battlesmith with that ability, and a third subclass with that ability seems lazy. Besides, I think that they are already powerful enough and a little bit of MADness is a good way to balance them.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
The bladesinger is fairly focused on not getting hit. They can get incredible AC, but one hit and they lose concentration and everything goes downhill from their. Bladesingers are probably better overall then Eldritch Knights, but are much more of a glass cannon.
Can Eldritch Knights continue concentrating after taking damage
After taking damage, you have to make a constitution saving throw equal to 10+the damage you took. If you fail, you lose concentration. While Eldritch Knights aren't any better at keeping concentration, concentration is so essential to Bladesingers that it destroys them if they lose it.
I'd just like to point out that the above statement is incorrect.
After taking damage you have to make a constitution saving throw. The DC is 10 or 1/2 of the damage taken whichever is higher. So if you take 30 damage the DC is 15. Any amount of damage 20 or less is a DC of 10.
A wizard who is bladesinging adds their intelligence as well as constitution modifier to their concentration saving throws. Typically this would be +5 at first level with 14 con and 16 intelligence. This is comparable to an EK at the same level who is proficient in constitution saving throws. Eventually the bladesinger will probably want the resilient con feat.
The bladesinger is fairly focused on not getting hit. They can get incredible AC, but one hit and they lose concentration and everything goes downhill from their. Bladesingers are probably better overall then Eldritch Knights, but are much more of a glass cannon.
Can Eldritch Knights continue concentrating after taking damage
After taking damage, you have to make a constitution saving throw equal to 10+the damage you took. If you fail, you lose concentration. While Eldritch Knights aren't any better at keeping concentration, concentration is so essential to Bladesingers that it destroys them if they lose it.
I'd just like to point out that the above statement is incorrect.
After taking damage you have to make a constitution saving throw. The DC is 10 or 1/2 of the damage taken whichever is higher. So if you take 30 damage the DC is 15. Any amount of damage 20 or less is a DC of 10.
A wizard who is bladesinging adds their intelligence as well as constitution modifier to their concentration saving throws. Typically this would be +5 at first level with 14 con and 16 intelligence. This is comparable to an EK at the same level who is proficient in constitution saving throws. Eventually the bladesinger will probably want the resilient con feat.
From Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide
Specifically, how does it compare with the Eldritch Knight from the PHB?
I think Bladesinger is far more versatile, since it gets access to all wizard spells and can join melee combat.
If you want a spellcasting melee fighter and don't mind being an elf, Bladesinger is imo simply better than Eldritch Knight in every way, including combat.
Even if you're out of Bladesong, with Mage Armor alone you'll have 16 AC at level 1 and the option to bump it up to 21 with Shield if you need it. If you're using a Finesse weapon, you'll have similar to-hit and damage like a fighter and later on you gain access to spells like Blur and Mirror Image long before the EK.
Out of combat you have spells and rituals for all purposes and you even recover some spell slots during short rests.
I've always felt it's a bit overpowered myself, definitely better than the EK. Not to the point where I've banned it, but I avoid picking it as a player. I'm not a fan of "best of both worlds" builds.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
@Naresea Thank you.
The bladesinger is fairly focused on not getting hit. They can get incredible AC, but one hit and they lose concentration and everything goes downhill from their. Bladesingers are probably better overall then Eldritch Knights, but are much more of a glass cannon.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Can Eldritch Knights continue concentrating after taking damage
After taking damage, you have to make a constitution saving throw equal to 10+the damage you took. If you fail, you lose concentration. While Eldritch Knights aren't any better at keeping concentration, concentration is so essential to Bladesingers that it destroys them if they lose it.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
@JoelTheWalrus I understand. Thanks.
This is a great example of things that benefit disproportionally from different play styles. The bladeslinger benefits a lot from methods of point score generation that have higher scores since they need int and dex to both be very high and still have enough con. Also, the bladeslinger needs to have enough spell slots (and uses of song of blades), so they would suffer in games that have a lot of combat between long rests.
I think the biggest drawback of the Bladesinger is that it was released too early being in one of the first sourcebooks. I would like to see a few tweaks to bring the melee element a bit more to the forefront.
This is just a minor wish list, they still play ok, but I see many people just stand in the back and cast spells with Bladesong going, it kind of misses the point of the tradition.
This depends a lot on the level. Bladesong gives intelligence to constitution saves right from level 2. In this range you can lose concentration, but with a +5 to the save that will at these levels mostly be against DC10 it's quite unlikely.
With level 4 you can pick up Warcaster which gives Advantage on concentration checks and allows you to dual wield shortswords without limiting your casting.
At level 10 you can also "burn" spellslots to avoid damage, which also lowers the DC of your concentration check.
And once you reach level 18 and get Shield at will you don't need concentration at all.
Overall the class is quite broken imho.
I agree with you about elven chain. Do you like the Hexblade better than the Bladesinger?
I don't think that Bladesingers should be able to use Intelligence as their attack stat. We already have Hexblade and Battlesmith with that ability, and a third subclass with that ability seems lazy. Besides, I think that they are already powerful enough and a little bit of MADness is a good way to balance them.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
I'd just like to point out that the above statement is incorrect.
After taking damage you have to make a constitution saving throw. The DC is 10 or 1/2 of the damage taken whichever is higher. So if you take 30 damage the DC is 15. Any amount of damage 20 or less is a DC of 10.
A wizard who is bladesinging adds their intelligence as well as constitution modifier to their concentration saving throws. Typically this would be +5 at first level with 14 con and 16 intelligence. This is comparable to an EK at the same level who is proficient in constitution saving throws. Eventually the bladesinger will probably want the resilient con feat.
I think it’s a shame that they cannot Bladesong with a Double Bladed Scimitar. I would houserule that if it came up.
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Thanks for clarifying 😊.
Interesting. I’ve never seen an elven fighter use a scimitar. Maybe in Al-Qadim? (but I’m not even sure if Al-Qadim exists in 5e)
The Valenar Elves from Eberron get this feature instead of the normal elf weapon proficiencies:
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Awesome 😊
I wasn’t familiar with the Valenar.