Hi everyone. I have been playing D&D seance a kid “80s”. For the last year and a half I have been trying my hand at DMing D&D5. I am having a bit of trouble with getting my players to do their “homework” (character build.  We are hoping to restart gaming in the next couple of weeks or so.  I am also finding that I am a bit “too permissive and giving” a DM. How do I change my style of DMing with out becoming to tyrannical  

You cannot get your players to do their homework if they don't want to. I don't think there is a way.

If they don't want to write backstory, say, and you say "We aren't playing till you write one," then you're not going to play. You can't make them do what they don't want to do. You will either have to accept that they don't do homework or find players who will.

If you try and force it in some manner, you may get them to technically cooperate (i.e, write something) but what they produce will be shoddy and half-baked, because they don't really want to do it.

You need players who WANT to participate. You can't make them.

I have a player in my campaign who, well... doesn't exactly refuse to write backstory, but just isn't very good at it. But on the plus side she's also very open to suggestions or ideas, so in a sense her character's backstory is laid out by her roughly (half-orc student wizard sent on his first job), and I add details as necessary (the job is basically an internship to assist a miner with a delivery). When her character successfully identified a potion of invisibility I made up on the spot that he had been assigned to create one in class once, and botched the formula in  a manner that resulted in him spending half a day with an invisible head. Just little minor details that gradually build up a character and backstory where there was none. And she grew more invested in that backstory because it usually related to what was going on and helped her to feel more involved in the world.

Of course, that's just one case. I know that some people don't like being told details about their own characters' backstory that they didn't okay, even when they don't commit to anything themselves.

I never understood that. In OD&D you gave your DM a character sheet and they wrote your backgrounds for you to get people all on the same page with a reason to adventure together.

I purposely leave vast grey areas in my backstories so that my DM can actually surprise me with “a long lost sister [I] never knew existed” or “[my] mother actually survived the fire because she was secretly a Fiendlock.” As far as I’m concerned, even a lot of the stuff I do write is fair game for plot fodder like “the kindly gnome who took [me] in after the deaths of [my] parents was actually their archenemy who has been using [me] the whole time.” A well done backstory figure’s face-heel turn is a great premise for a story point.  

 The OP didn't mention backgrounds specifically -- "builds" were mentioned. I just used background writing as an example.

My point remains: you cannot make players do things between sessions if they don't want to do them, and trying to force them is doomed to fail. It'll either not get done, or the job done will be slipshopd and not what you are looking for. If you have players who do not want to do any work in between sessions, you either live with that and adapt to it or find a new group of players.

Xanathar's Guide to Everything has the section "This is Your Life" which does backstory via rolling on tables, and it's great for anyone who doesn't want to write a huge thing. I've used it as a player multiple times and recommend it to players as well.

You also don't need a complicated backstory for a good game!

Guys stop getting sidetracked by my example of the backstory. You've made me derail the thread when I had no intention to.

The OP talked about people not doing their builds. Build != backstory. Build means the whole character, and probably doesn't even include backstory just class, race, stats, equipment, etc. Background is at most a small part of the build. 

It's not the point of the thread. The point is how to get players to do their "homework" in between sessions.

It can be difficult to get players to make their characters at times, but in general just talking to them about that stuff can help a lot. Most of the time I run a session 0 where we make our characters together, if you're planning on restarting I'm assuming it's a new game. Having that session 0 lets people talk about their characters with each other, and can help a lot. It also is an organic way to introduce setting specific stuff into the game, such as X race is from Y location, or Z war happened here at A time. These things can inspire your players and give them more context to what they want to build.

In my current game one of my players was having trouble coming up with a concept but when we got to session 0 and I showed him some of the setting specific stuff he ended up being inspired by that and made a really interesting build which he didn't even consider before. So my suggestion is honestly to set aside time with them to do the whole process together (which is tough if you can't meet in person, but still doable and desirable).

I think, on some level, this can match what I mentioned before about sometimes just letting the DM fill in the details. I've seen sometimes people get overwhelmed with the options available to them... whether it's choosing class, race, or spells/abilities. At that point it might be better to  come to the table with a few premade character sheets and just let your friend pick from them which ones they like, and if they have one that they really like but there's one detail they don't, well... just change that detail.

Maybe don't make it homework, but instead make it a group project. If they don't come to the session prepped to play, account for that, and assume you're going to spend the first few minutes of each session getting things ready. That may mean that during your session 0, you all generate characters together, or that you expect them to all level up at the table. If they won't change their behavior (and they probably won't), you can try to change your expectations.

Or you can try and lay a guilt trip on them along the lines of: I spend 10 hours every week writing these adventures, can you all take 10 minutes to prep your characters at home so we can actually play once we get together. It might not work, but it will feel good to say it :)

As far as changing your style, I guess my first question would be what problem is "being giving and permissive" creating that you are trying to fix? Do characters end up overpowered? That's really the only thing I can think of. If that's it, then try to give them less stuff, and tell them you're going to try and run things by RAW for a while to see how it works out. But in a larger sense, if everyone is having fun, then maybe don't worry about your style. If its what you like, and the players are enjoying it, then why change at all?

Twice recently I’ve sent players invites to join my campaign with excited and eager messages that I’d love to help with their character creation on whatever level that may be and....nothing :( lol.  So I’ve just accepted that they are going to do everything last minute and we’ll probably waste the first hour of our first session (whenever that will be) making their characters. 

Quote from CozmoTheGrey >>

Twice recently I’ve sent players invites to join my campaign with excited and eager messages that I’d love to help with their character creation on whatever level that may be and....nothing :( lol.  So I’ve just accepted that they are going to do everything last minute and we’ll probably waste the first hour of our first session (whenever that will be) making their characters. 

 As far as I’m concerned, that’s part of session 0. I just plan for it so that when Session 1 comes around I know everything is readyish... mostly.... 🙄 At least enough for me to have prepped the first session.

true, that’s what I’ll do I suppose. The people I’m playing with though are all close friends and I thought, especially at a time like this, it’d be something fun to discuss virtually or whatever. But as others mentioned above, I guess I am just more into it than everyone else is lol.

Quote from CozmoTheGrey >>

true, that’s what I’ll do I suppose. The people I’m playing with though are all close friends and I thought, especially at a time like this, it’d be something fun to discuss virtually or whatever. But as others mentioned above, I guess I am just more into it than everyone else is lol.

 Not necessarily “more into it” just some people only D&D during sessions. For some people, the idea of working on it outside of session sometimes even seems wrong to some players, and never even occurs to others.

I generally agree with the sentiments expressed so far: you can't force Players to do anything they don't want to, and that Character building can be part of Session Zero.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if all your Players build their Characters as part of Session Zero, that this is a benefit, not a problem. This would allow the Players to not just create random Characters, and then have to rely on you to try and create a story environment which will bond these Characters into an adventuring Party - but rather the Players can start with an integrated Party of Characters which is, well balanced, has a narrative reason behind what they are doing, and why they are doing it together. I did this in my last game, where the Players all started  as a "special talents" squad in the White Bear Mercenary Company operating out of Luskan on the sword coast of Faerûn.

Don't get me wrong, the story of a bunch of strangers who meet in a bar, and go on to become the greatest heroes the world has ever seen, is a good and enjoyable narrative pattern - but it's not the only one.

In short - take the things you can't change about your Players, and make it work to your advantage. GM judo:)

Best of luck :)

I definitely agree with those who said make the unfinished homework part of the session. That is probably the best way to do it. If people come without their character done, cheerfully say "OK, let's work on those now. Everyone open to the background section and start perusing... I will help you if you need it." And then work with them one at a time, like it's a group project. You can do the same with having them roll stats, or however you do it... buy equipment, etc. 

This will serve 2 purposes. First, it will get the things you want done, done. In the second, it will show them what you expect of them, which maybe you hadn't made clear before.

Also, if people wanted to "actually play" and are unhappy to be doing "busy work," you could say that if they want, you'd be willing to allow them to do it between sessions. Which of course is what you want, but now you're getting them to take ownership of the idea.

If it's a new campaign, I don't even bother with asking players to come with characters. Straight to Season 0, whenever there's no need for secrets between PCs. (Never again letting a player secretly be a psychic.) The exception is when I'm the one bringing prebuilt PCs complete with rudimentary rules and how to use the PC.

When I have a player who "hasn't done their homework" where rarely needed, these are the things I consider:

1. Will another player that did do it support them in a way that they'll both have fun? Otherwise, can I do it without going crazy?

2. Can I just toss some of the rules out and have a carefree gaming session, slowly building familiarity as we go?

3. Can I have fun with them otherwise?

If it gets to 3, I'm usually looking at giving up on D&D with the players. I've bailed on players before, with a straight up "I'm just not enjoying this, how about a board game?" And once just up and left, where I felt a lack of respect.

I only ask for "homework" if it seems they'll enjoy doing it. To a programmer: "If you want an airship, make a design for it first. Nothing fancy, have fun with it." To a researcher: "Find me a video or image of your concept and we'll make it happen!" To a military veteran: "Make a mission statement for your mercenary crew so that I can work with it."

It takes some familiarity with the players but I wouldn't ask them to do something they don't want to do. If they just want to play during the game and that's it, I don't expect more of them.

Thank you everyone 😁. I only used the term “homework” in place of what the players are doing. Like character building and maintenance.  I create an adventure/world/mission backstory or briefing and a sort of outline (example: the campaign description or Add to it make something up so I’d be able to either use published campaign or try home brewing one  then the players fill in details.  

After a long day of (work, training, study) you return to your (home ,quarters) to find a scroll addressed to the Holder of this (symbol/seal/crests).  (You or a member of family or guardian, now carry it).  You are again called upon once again to  defend the light, and balance. Against the denizens of darkness.  Honor, wealth, prestige, and glory to those who answer the call. Inside the scroll a letter of credit guaranteeing payment for up to $10gps for travel, equipment, and supplies.  Travel to Silverymoon by the Blue Moon Festival in 4 weeks. On arrival report to House Silvermyst for accommodations and further information, instruction, and training.   * For one reason or another your Character goes*.   You recognize 1 symbol/crest/insignia as belonging to your family/house/temple/ and others your have seen. But, there is a one that you do not recognize.     

I should also mention that I am a “reluctant” DM as no one in our group wanted the job,  I even went as far to post in a couple meetups and other Facebook groups. Offering to pay a reasonable fee for someone to come in and DM for us. Again no response. So, I’m doing it.  Now here’s the thing. Not only do I do all the game prep,  I also serve as host. So I do all the house cleaning too and set up for game day.  So when game day finally comes. I’m already exhausted. So it not so much to ask your players to at least to do their characters and details. After all it their character, and the group’s story/world we are creating. And DM is just the guide, referee, and storyteller. 

Quote from Leolin >>

I should also mention that I am a “reluctant” DM as no one in our group wanted the job,  I even went as far to post in a couple meetups and other Facebook groups. Offering to pay a reasonable fee for someone to come in and DM for us. Again no response. So, I’m doing it.  Now here’s the thing. Not only do I do all the game prep,  I also starve as host. So I do all the house cleaning too and set up for game day.  So when game day finally comes. I’m already exhausted. So it not so much to ask your players to at least to do their characters and details 

 Welcome to the other side of the screen. Every two weeks (when not in pandemic shutdown) I have to do all of that and cook a meal for 10 people (Me, my wife, my 7 players and any of their SOs who might be coming too) and all for people with different dietary restrictions. DMing is a LOT of work, and we get to help the players too. It’s just the gig.

One technique I have found very helpful is to tell them that the faster they get me a 3 paragraph (500ish words) backstory, the faster their characters get storylines tailored for them. Once I say something like “The reason this is the first adventure is because the cleric’s was the first backstory I received.” Then they start rushing to give me their backstories.