I'm trying to tie some themes of freedom vs order throughout my campaign, but I"m coming up short on finding resources referencing these things so I can properly give them the attention they deserve.
My world was one of absolute peace ruled by benevolent gods who pretty much solved all conflict for the world / manufactured simple conflict to keep people from becoming too complacent. The conflict comes when the ancient enemies of the gods are released and the gods themselves are sealed away. So now there are these powerful creatures loose on the world who have carved out territories for themselves and each has their own governing style and motivations. Some are very totalitarian and "Peace through obedience" driven, while others are "The weak shall serve the strong, every being out for themselves." I'd like to have the characters grow into people who have opinions on how things should be run because if they eventually free the gods, they're going to have some major sway in the new world order.
For my players, I have a vengeance-driven paladin which is easy enough. I'd like him to face personal vengeance vs. justice vs. revenge and question how that works when the gods have wronged the devils; who should receive justice then?
My monk is battling with inner peace and dark, violent thoughts. She said the goal for peace was more so put upon her by the monk order rather than being a thing she wants. So her arc will likely involve her finding constructive outlets for her anger and inner rage.
And my shadow sorcerer wants to blackmail the gods into doing what he wants. We haven't gotten very far on his motivations yet.
So does anyone have a good resource for these themes or ideals in literature, or advice on how to further their character arcs? I know this is a lot but I've spent most of today banging my head against a wall getting nowhere. Thanks in advance!
Started writing in 1992, still adding more books. Really well written stuff. Great ideas and one of the few series where 'black' is basically the color of the good guys and white the bad guys. Mostly.
Black = "Order" White = "Chaos". Most of the books treat Order as 'the good guys', though a few books have the chaos folk being the good guys and some have the Grey Druids being the good guys.
The more you use either the more powerful you get. Special Metals (Black Iron, Cupridium, etc.) associated with each kind of magic.
Chaos shortens your life and lets you kill things easily. Order is more subtle, likely to lengthen your life UNLESS you kill, then it can blind or kill you.
And most importantly, the more of one you gather, the more of the other comes into being. So if you make your country based on Chaos, another country automatically becomes powerful with Order.
Freedom v. Order is a challenging contrast. Freedom v. Security or Freedom v. Egalitarianism are easier to chew on. So the enemies of the gods have taken over, and sealed the gods away? How long ago? Long enough that their governing styles have really taken root in the cultures of their region? Or just long enough that the people know how to play ball to stay out of trouble? There are so many directly rippable things from the real world today. Your own views of the news and the problems we face will dictate how you translate these things into your world.
But politics aside, you can look at stereotypes of societies. They refer to an unruled society as “the wild west.” So build a wild west. Build two. One where they realize helping people around them makes for a better world for them, too, and don’t need a government to manage it. And one where the weak go to the rich, who trade aid for years of service, and there are no laws that stop this slavery. Build a 1984 society where an arcane eye is in everyone’s house and the government polices thought. Build a crony capitalism village where the rich have colluded with the lawmakers to have laws written that make them default monopolies. Build a post-socialist revolutionary village, where a beloved figure took charge on behalf of the people. When the “to each according to his need” outpaced the “from each according to his ability,” he started “pruning back” the Have Nots so the food could feed everyone again, picking one particular people group to target first, so the people stayed on board, united against a common enemy who was responsible for the shortcomings of the State.
as to the character arcs, that will form naturally as they roleplay in the settings you provide. I think the sorcerer might need something more near term to work at than blackmailing gods who may or may not be freed during this campaign. Maybe he’s very controlling himself, not overtly, but from the shadows he manipulates, and wants to end up with a hand in the decision making wherever he is.
the monk may learn that freedom is the ability to control one’s self. And that you are a slave to whatever has mastered you. Including seeking the approval of others, or losing control to anger, or violence.
At the moment of our most recent session, it has been a week since the gods have been sealed away. The only civilization the party has encountered is one where a vampire turned the first 8 people that bent the knee to him. They then ran wild with their power and have devoured the essence of everyone in town except for a small (3 people) band of resistance fighters. A liaison of the Demon Lord has come to inspect the town and the party intercepted them. The liaison wants the vampires removed because they're awful at managing the town and are sending bad offerings in preparation for the Demon Lord's true arrival.
I think it's a good idea to just tinker with different types of civilizations and see what comes up and ham up their faults. I think I was trying to look too specifically into it and needed a wider view.
Well, The Republic, by Plato comes to mind, As does John Stuart Mill, John Locke and Rousseau. There are dozens of other political theorists. And if you want something less nerdy, the assassin’s creed video games, the meta conflict is between freedom and authority.
There is another concept as well. Freedom and Peace are opposites - as anyone that has ever had to babysit two kids can tell you. You can of course also phrase that as War and Order being opposites. The implications being that peace = order = slavery and freedom = chaos = war.
In two of Matt Colville’s video series on YouTube, Running the Game and his Campaign Diary for the Chain, he explores the themes of Law & Order vs. Chaos & Freedom quite extensively. You might find some useful stuff there.
One of the more commonly re-staged stories that puts freedom and order side by side is definitely Victor Hugo's "Les Miserables." One of the main protagonists of "Les Miserables" is the mayor of town who was a convicted criminal who went to prison for stealing food. Though Valjean tries to reform himself, he is hunted by a man of strict law and order in the character of Inspector Javert. One of the major themes of the novel is that freedom is often tied down by other aspects of social life, be it laws against the poor, social mores about sexuality, the stigma of being labeled a criminal, a person's own conscience, as well as bonds related to caring for others. Javert is a wonderful foil for Valjean because Javert only cares for law and order. His relentless and tireless devotion to his view of justice is what forces Valjean to confront his past as a criminal over and over again.
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I'm trying to tie some themes of freedom vs order throughout my campaign, but I"m coming up short on finding resources referencing these things so I can properly give them the attention they deserve.
My world was one of absolute peace ruled by benevolent gods who pretty much solved all conflict for the world / manufactured simple conflict to keep people from becoming too complacent. The conflict comes when the ancient enemies of the gods are released and the gods themselves are sealed away. So now there are these powerful creatures loose on the world who have carved out territories for themselves and each has their own governing style and motivations. Some are very totalitarian and "Peace through obedience" driven, while others are "The weak shall serve the strong, every being out for themselves." I'd like to have the characters grow into people who have opinions on how things should be run because if they eventually free the gods, they're going to have some major sway in the new world order.
For my players, I have a vengeance-driven paladin which is easy enough. I'd like him to face personal vengeance vs. justice vs. revenge and question how that works when the gods have wronged the devils; who should receive justice then?
My monk is battling with inner peace and dark, violent thoughts. She said the goal for peace was more so put upon her by the monk order rather than being a thing she wants. So her arc will likely involve her finding constructive outlets for her anger and inner rage.
And my shadow sorcerer wants to blackmail the gods into doing what he wants. We haven't gotten very far on his motivations yet.
So does anyone have a good resource for these themes or ideals in literature, or advice on how to further their character arcs? I know this is a lot but I've spent most of today banging my head against a wall getting nowhere. Thanks in advance!
Have you read any of Modesitt's Saga of Recluce books? https://www.lemodesittjr.com/the-books/saga-recluce/
Started writing in 1992, still adding more books. Really well written stuff. Great ideas and one of the few series where 'black' is basically the color of the good guys and white the bad guys. Mostly.
Black = "Order" White = "Chaos". Most of the books treat Order as 'the good guys', though a few books have the chaos folk being the good guys and some have the Grey Druids being the good guys.
The more you use either the more powerful you get. Special Metals (Black Iron, Cupridium, etc.) associated with each kind of magic.
Chaos shortens your life and lets you kill things easily. Order is more subtle, likely to lengthen your life UNLESS you kill, then it can blind or kill you.
And most importantly, the more of one you gather, the more of the other comes into being. So if you make your country based on Chaos, another country automatically becomes powerful with Order.
Freedom v. Order is a challenging contrast. Freedom v. Security or Freedom v. Egalitarianism are easier to chew on. So the enemies of the gods have taken over, and sealed the gods away? How long ago? Long enough that their governing styles have really taken root in the cultures of their region? Or just long enough that the people know how to play ball to stay out of trouble? There are so many directly rippable things from the real world today. Your own views of the news and the problems we face will dictate how you translate these things into your world.
But politics aside, you can look at stereotypes of societies. They refer to an unruled society as “the wild west.” So build a wild west. Build two. One where they realize helping people around them makes for a better world for them, too, and don’t need a government to manage it. And one where the weak go to the rich, who trade aid for years of service, and there are no laws that stop this slavery. Build a 1984 society where an arcane eye is in everyone’s house and the government polices thought. Build a crony capitalism village where the rich have colluded with the lawmakers to have laws written that make them default monopolies. Build a post-socialist revolutionary village, where a beloved figure took charge on behalf of the people. When the “to each according to his need” outpaced the “from each according to his ability,” he started “pruning back” the Have Nots so the food could feed everyone again, picking one particular people group to target first, so the people stayed on board, united against a common enemy who was responsible for the shortcomings of the State.
as to the character arcs, that will form naturally as they roleplay in the settings you provide. I think the sorcerer might need something more near term to work at than blackmailing gods who may or may not be freed during this campaign. Maybe he’s very controlling himself, not overtly, but from the shadows he manipulates, and wants to end up with a hand in the decision making wherever he is.
the monk may learn that freedom is the ability to control one’s self. And that you are a slave to whatever has mastered you. Including seeking the approval of others, or losing control to anger, or violence.
the paladin it sounds like you have a line on.
At the moment of our most recent session, it has been a week since the gods have been sealed away. The only civilization the party has encountered is one where a vampire turned the first 8 people that bent the knee to him. They then ran wild with their power and have devoured the essence of everyone in town except for a small (3 people) band of resistance fighters. A liaison of the Demon Lord has come to inspect the town and the party intercepted them. The liaison wants the vampires removed because they're awful at managing the town and are sending bad offerings in preparation for the Demon Lord's true arrival.
I think it's a good idea to just tinker with different types of civilizations and see what comes up and ham up their faults. I think I was trying to look too specifically into it and needed a wider view.
Well, The Republic, by Plato comes to mind, As does John Stuart Mill, John Locke and Rousseau. There are dozens of other political theorists.
And if you want something less nerdy, the assassin’s creed video games, the meta conflict is between freedom and authority.
... and here I was thinking of Machiavelli and Michael Moorcock. Do gamers still read the Elric saga as a treatise on Chaos?
There is another concept as well. Freedom and Peace are opposites - as anyone that has ever had to babysit two kids can tell you. You can of course also phrase that as War and Order being opposites. The implications being that peace = order = slavery and freedom = chaos = war.
In two of Matt Colville’s video series on YouTube, Running the Game and his Campaign Diary for the Chain, he explores the themes of Law & Order vs. Chaos & Freedom quite extensively. You might find some useful stuff there.
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One of the more commonly re-staged stories that puts freedom and order side by side is definitely Victor Hugo's "Les Miserables." One of the main protagonists of "Les Miserables" is the mayor of town who was a convicted criminal who went to prison for stealing food. Though Valjean tries to reform himself, he is hunted by a man of strict law and order in the character of Inspector Javert. One of the major themes of the novel is that freedom is often tied down by other aspects of social life, be it laws against the poor, social mores about sexuality, the stigma of being labeled a criminal, a person's own conscience, as well as bonds related to caring for others. Javert is a wonderful foil for Valjean because Javert only cares for law and order. His relentless and tireless devotion to his view of justice is what forces Valjean to confront his past as a criminal over and over again.