Things got pretty heated today in our Rime of the Frostmaiden discussion.
I have a Gloom Stalker ranger who is invisible in darkness. There were 4 Crag Cats who were able to sense the party through hearing and smell in a blizzard. When it came to combat the ranger refused to attack at disadvantage because they were invisible so they should have advantage. The only reason I gave that makes the advantage not possible is because the creatures sensed them through hearing and smell negating the advantage, so because of the blizzard they were attacking at disadvantage. Eventually I relented because the campaign has been full of this, but I want some extra opinions. Hopefully providing some RAW insight into what should happen.
logically it makes sense that something that invisibility would only work with something that requires sight. If the creature isn't detecting them using sight then it wont matter if he is invisible or not. It would be the same thing as saying that because he is invisible, he can sneak up on someone while banging pots and pans and screaming because they can't see him. That is just not how it works. "An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature's location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves." As a part of that it does include, "Attack rolls against the creature have disadvantage, and the creature's attack rolls have advantage." but if you are still detectable then I don't see why that would apply. Also, notice that it specifically says that it having a special sense as an exception.
That being said, he can still attempt to hide (using a hide action) and gain benefits from being unseen, " When you attack a target that you can't see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you're guessing the target's location or you're targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn't in the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but the GM typically just says that the attack missed, not whether you guessed the target's location correctly. When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it. If you are hidden–both unseen and unheard–when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses." In this case I think unseen in a blanket term for undetected since there are things like Blindsight that still allows creatures to be hidden from perception despite not relying sight at all.
In the end of the day, you are the DM and your word is law. If your player(s) has a repeated problem with the way you run the game its probably worth talking about them outside of the game about how you are going to rule certain things. If they are still unreceptive that is an entirely different topic that has been discussed at nauseum in the forums and all over the internet. Don't be afraid to have tougher conversations with the players. Communication is super important and if you or they are not having fun for one reason or another then a conversation is necessary.
If "the campaign has been full of this" then there is no RAW that will help you.
It would seem to me your rulings are not being respected by the players. Below is an excerpt from the DMG ch.8
Rules Discussions
You might need to set a policy on rules discussions at the table. Some groups don’t mind putting the game on hold while they hash out different interpretations of a rule. Others prefer to let the DM make a call and continue with the action. If you gloss over a rules issue in play, make a note of it (a good task to delegate to a player) and return to the issue later.
If it is your expectation that you will "make the call" then you will have to express that to your players. Otherwise, your players are going to continue to confront you with their demands.
Crag Cats do not have blindsight, so they can still be attacked by surprise, though it does mean they have advantage on passive perception to resist stealth. However, a snow storm with heavy concealment would render his invisibility moot because everyone is invisible.
I think initial responders should look at the features of the character and monster before rallying the DM.
DM, are you playing the Crag Cat RAW or adding features on them to defeat this Gloom Stalker? Crag Cats have Darkvision which is specifically thwarted by the Gloomstalkers' Umbral Sight. Nowhere in their stats blocks in either SKT or RotF are they given the keen senses trait given to say a wolf that you're granting them (they already have some traits above and beyond those of ordinary beasts).
If Crag Cats did have keen senses (smell and hearing) you got something to think about but I'm still with the Ranger. Wolves and dogs definitely hunt with smell and hearing, cats stalk as well with them too. However, actual attacks upon their prey is a very visual thing, especially for cats. The pounce (which Crag Cats even have stats as a trait) is triggered by visual motion cues.
Anyway, RAW the keen senses granted a wolf does not say they beat invisibility. Keen just gives them advantage to a perception check. Perception is not "drawing a bullseye" it's knowing something is there. Just like perception with a PC, they'll have a general sense of presence and vicinity but the sense that guides that attack will still be compromised. In other words, the Crag Cats may figure out that there's potential quarry in their proximity, but in combat with the Gloom Stalker, they're still blinded as far as advantage disadvantage.
Is there a reason you're trying to beat the Gloom Stalker's Umbral Sight by beefing up the monsters? It may be meta gaming, depending on the characters experience and native geography, but I'd protest this ruling too. This isn't a matter of interpretation, it seems more a desire to discount a PC's RAW advantages against features your creature doesn't really have.
As Pantagruel said Crag Cats don't have blindsight, nor keen senses as a creature feature. Moreover keen senses is not blindsight.
In this case, I think an important rule has been forgotten: when rolling with advantage and disadvantage, they cancel - no matter how many sources they come from.
In this case, advantage from being invisible is cancelled by disadvantage for not being able to see the cats. So its a straight roll, and no other factors can make this shot have adv or disadv anymore.
As a DM, I wouldn't grant ANY perks for Keen Senses under Blizzard conditions because....well, sound and scent are going to be blowing everywhere, thus making the Keen Sense as close to pointless as one will see. That said, smell and hearing are rather non-detailed in MOST creatures. A Bloodhound can't attack based solely on scent, as it's not as accurate or reliable as vision. A Bat, CAN attack on sound, due to echo location, but an Owl, who also has insane hearing, cannot, as the hearing brings him NEAR the target, and sight locks it in.
If the Gloomy boy is abusing his power, I would suggest looking through the MM to find something he wouldn't expect to see/hear/sense him, and allow him to approach, cockily expecting the surprise attack, only to BE surprised, because he wasn't expecting the creature to recognize him. If he protests, I would simply point out that an NPC (or monster) has ALL the abilities he does and his overconfidence in his ability resulted in carelessness and thus getting smacked, rather soundly, as a result. Any time a PC is using/abusing something, I find a good way to show them is to get their foes to do the same thing. Any complaints are easily explained that UOU did this to 5-7 monsters, how can you complain that THEY can do it too?
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Crag cats do not have blindsight. If they had keen senses that would give them advantage on perception checks related to these senses (however, they do not have this trait either unless the DM modified the creatures in RotFM). Keen senses would make it harder for creatures to hide from them but it does not allow the crag cats to see the creatures, just to know where they are.
If a creature can not see a target then they have disadvantage on the attacks. If the target can not see the attacker then the attacker has advantage. These two instances of advantage and disadvantage cancel out making everything a straight roll. Gloomstalker invisibility doesn't matter in this case. An additional reason for advantage or disadvantage is irrelevant if there are already reasons for advantage and disadvantage to cancel.
This goes for magical darkness as well. A gloomstalker can't normally see in magical darkness so their invisibility doesn't help their attacks in magical darkness since they still can't see their opponent. This again makes it a straight roll. (In addition, gloomstalker invisibility requires that the creature be using darkvision to try to see the Gloomstalker - if that is not the case then gloomstalker invisibility does nothing).
If a creature has devil's sight (warlock version), the gloomstalker invisibility feature doesn't work at all since it requires darkness in which a creature is using darkvision to try and see them. Devils sight (warlock feature) is not darkvision and so Gloomstalker invisibility doesn't work against warlocks. However, RAW, gloomstalker invisibility does work against fiends with the Devils sight trait since it is specifically listed as an enhancement to their darkvision trait while the warlock version is not.
Anyway, the bottom line, RAW, is that the gloomstalker abilities will make no difference in a blizzard and both the characters and the crag cats should have been making straight attack rolls.
P.S. I checked the stat block for Crag Cats in the back of RotFM and they do not have any keen sense traits. If the DM wants to modify them to have keen senses or blindsight, that is fine but the OP should mention that they have changed the monster for their playing of the game so comments will make sense. (For example, if the cats were given blindsight then they could see the characters even with a blizzard while the characters could not see them - as a result the characters would have disadvantage while the cats would have advantage but ONLY if the cats have blindsight which by default, they do not.)
DM, are you playing the Crag Cat RAW or adding features on them to defeat this Gloom Stalker? Crag Cats have Darkvision which is specifically thwarted by the Gloomstalkers' Umbral Sight. Nowhere in their stats blocks in either SKT or RotF are they given the keen senses trait given to say a wolf that you're granting them (they already have some traits above and beyond those of ordinary beasts).
If Crag Cats did have keen senses (smell and hearing) you got something to think about but I'm still with the Ranger. Wolves and dogs definitely hunt with smell and hearing, cats stalk as well with them too. However, actual attacks upon their prey is a very visual thing, especially for cats. The pounce (which Crag Cats even have stats as a trait) is triggered by visual motion cues.
RotFM has some words in the Crag Cats random encounter: "During a blizzard, the crag cats rely on their hearing and sense of smell to track the characters while staying outside their prey’s range of visibility."
Others have stated it in more oblique terms. I will make it clear.
The DM screwed up. It is a blizzard. Everyone, including the cats, are effectively operating under the Blinded condition, because everyone is operating in Heavily Obscured Conditions. All Disadvantages and Advantages cancel out, and all rolls are straight up. For EVERYONE, unless they have some form of Blindsight, or Tremorsense, or Keen Smell, or Keen Hearing. The Cats don't have those. Neither do the players.
Others have stated it in more oblique terms. I will make it clear.
The DM screwed up. It is a blizzard. Everyone, including the cats, are effectively operating under the Blinded condition, because everyone is operating in Heavily Obscured Conditions. All Disadvantages and Advantages cancel out, and all rolls are straight up. For EVERYONE, unless they have some form of Blindsight, or Tremorsense, or Keen Smell, or Keen Hearing. The Cats don't have those. Neither do the players.
I agree with blanket disadvantage as outlined. Separately I stand by my assertion that Crag Cats as stat blocked or the RotM "tracking method" doesn't foil Umbral Sight.
One thing I'm not sure about is "straight rolls" at least in this situation. I'm not sure off hand what RAW say about universal disadvantage though I admit reverting to straight rolls would move the action along faster. Rolling at disadvantage will slow down combat, but that's sort of the point, fighting in a blizzard is a slog fest. If you straight roll it, effects with timed durations (spells / magic items with a one minute effect) are also ignoring the environment. There's no point at all in a "blanket disadvantage" atmosphere if those timed effects don't peter out in the slog fest. It may be exhausting at the table, but that's sort of the point.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
This was also part of my confusion. The encounter stated that with the creatures hearing and smell that they could find the characters if a blizzard ocurred at the same time. Which it did. So forntje encounter I treated it as such. Still, some creatures do have the keen smell or hearing in the campaign which is why I asked.
Didn't see this before I replied, but yeah this is why. The characters also have vision within 30 feet, but Ranged attacks have disadvantage. Which said Ranger was using.
I didn't think this woukd get as much attention as it did, let me provide some more context. The Blizzard allows limited vision within 30 ft. Ranged attacks have disadvantage, and perception checks take a heavy hit. I did not modify the Crag Cats at all, based off the encounter which was said earlier, they could locate the adventurers through hearing and smell. The Ranger was invisible, but also using ranged weapon attacks. I was arguing at disadvantage because of how they located the adventurers. I reasoned that if that's how they found them then they could tell where they were regardless of invisibility. I have been thinking about this since and I decided that if a creature wanted to sniff out an invisible one they could use their action to locate the creature to be confident in where they're attacking. I'm still unsure if the attacks should still be at disadvantage or not because the creature has been located. Regardless, I did screw up, and the attacks should have been straight rolls. We fixed it and have talked and resolved it since.
The blizzards that ravage Icewind Dale and harry travelers on the mountain pass are reflections of Auril’s self-imposed isolation. A blizzard in Icewind Dale typically lasts 2d4 hours, and whenever the characters are caught in one, the following rules apply until it ends.
A blizzard’s howling wind limits hearing to a range of 100 feet and imposes disadvantage on ranged weapon attack rolls. It also imposes disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing. The wind extinguishes open flames, disperses fog, erases tracks in the snow, and makes flying by nonmagical means nearly impossible. A creature falls at the end of its turn if it is flying by nonmagical means and can’t hover.
Visibility in a blizzard is reduced to 30 feet. Creatures without goggles or other eye protection have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight due to blowing snow.
I highlighted the important parts. Umbral Sight gives invisibility vs darkvision in darkness. The Cats do have darkvision.
So during a blizzard in the night:
100 to 30 ft: the cats know where the ranger is and move towards him unless the ranger uses his action to stealth. The ranger has no clue about the cats, unless he uses his action to roll a perception at disadvantage. I would set the DC at 17 because of the +7 those cats have in stealth. ( or a passiv perception of at least 22). Since he has no clue where the cats are or needs to spend his action to perceive them, he can not attack.
30 to 10 ft: the ranger can see the cats and attack, advantage from Umbral Sight and disadvantage from blizzard cancel each other out.
5ft: the ranger can still attack with a plain roll, because Umbral Sight cancels disadvantage from blizzard and close quarter.
5ft: The cats can attack but at disadvantage because of Umbral Sight and invisibility.
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is that, while invisible creatures can be located with hearing and smell, all that means is that the crag cat would know the PC's location. They still attack the PC with disadvantage. The rules tier down as follows:
1) Invisible Creature that has used the hide action: creatures attacking have to guess the location, and the attack is an auto-miss unless they guess the right point. If the guess the right point the attack is still at disadvantage if the creature doesn't fill its space (since they still have to hit a creature smaller than a 5' square). A creature can make a perception check to search for a hidden invisible creature (possibly with advantage with keen senses, but in this case it might be a straight roll due to the blizzard)
2) Invisible Creature that hasn't used hide: creatures attacking will know the location (based on sound, smell, or tremorsense), so they don't have to guess the location. Attacks are still at disadvantage for the reason stated in #1
3) If an attacking creature has blindsight, truesight, or another means to see invisible creatures, then the Invisible creature gets no benefit from its invisibility from attacks made by the attacking creature.
I'm not familiar with RotFM and this particular encounter, but it seems from the baseline that the crag cats are able to locate a PC they can't see using their hearing/smell, so they would be able to attack an invisible creature that isn't hiding without an auto-miss, but would still have disadvantage...but if the invisible PC is also hiding, the crag cats would have to first search for the hidden PC...otherwise they are just guessing a location to attack, and then (only if they guessed the right spot) would the attack have a chance to hit (and only then with disadvantage)
100 to 30 ft: the cats know where the ranger is and move towards him unless the ranger uses his action to stealth. The ranger has no clue about the cats, unless he uses his action to roll a perception at disadvantage. I would set the DC at 17 because of the +7 those cats have in stealth. ( or a passive perception of at least 22). Since he has no clue where the cats are or needs to spend his action to perceive them, he can not attack.
Almost:
At 100', the cats detect the party unless the party succeeds at using stealth (possible if camping or traveling slowly), the party detects the cats unless the cats succeed at using stealth. Because of the blizzard, vision rolls automatically fail and hearing rolls are at disadvantage, so the passive perception of the party is reduced by 5. The same applies to the cats unless they have an applicable sense that is neither vision or hearing (however, all the cats have stealth, some of the party might not or might be really bad at it, or they might have a light source). Canonically crag cats don't have keen senses, but they probably should, other large cats such as a Panther or Tiger have keen scent. If the cats are detected, ranged attacks are at both advantage (unseen attacker) and disadvantage (target has full concealment) which is net neutral (this is one of the dumber rules artifacts in 5e, I house rule it as 'an attacker which can see its target but cannot be seen by its target has advantage').
Also, I would note that darkvision converts darkness to dim light, not bright light, so it's risky when traveling over terrain that may have natural hazards that you want to spot before you walk into them.
Things got pretty heated today in our Rime of the Frostmaiden discussion.
I have a Gloom Stalker ranger who is invisible in darkness. There were 4 Crag Cats who were able to sense the party through hearing and smell in a blizzard. When it came to combat the ranger refused to attack at disadvantage because they were invisible so they should have advantage. The only reason I gave that makes the advantage not possible is because the creatures sensed them through hearing and smell negating the advantage, so because of the blizzard they were attacking at disadvantage. Eventually I relented because the campaign has been full of this, but I want some extra opinions. Hopefully providing some RAW insight into what should happen.
logically it makes sense that something that invisibility would only work with something that requires sight. If the creature isn't detecting them using sight then it wont matter if he is invisible or not. It would be the same thing as saying that because he is invisible, he can sneak up on someone while banging pots and pans and screaming because they can't see him. That is just not how it works. "An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature's location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves." As a part of that it does include, "Attack rolls against the creature have disadvantage, and the creature's attack rolls have advantage." but if you are still detectable then I don't see why that would apply. Also, notice that it specifically says that it having a special sense as an exception.
That being said, he can still attempt to hide (using a hide action) and gain benefits from being unseen, " When you attack a target that you can't see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you're guessing the target's location or you're targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn't in the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but the GM typically just says that the attack missed, not whether you guessed the target's location correctly. When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it. If you are hidden–both unseen and unheard–when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses." In this case I think unseen in a blanket term for undetected since there are things like Blindsight that still allows creatures to be hidden from perception despite not relying sight at all.
In the end of the day, you are the DM and your word is law. If your player(s) has a repeated problem with the way you run the game its probably worth talking about them outside of the game about how you are going to rule certain things. If they are still unreceptive that is an entirely different topic that has been discussed at nauseum in the forums and all over the internet. Don't be afraid to have tougher conversations with the players. Communication is super important and if you or they are not having fun for one reason or another then a conversation is necessary.
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
If "the campaign has been full of this" then there is no RAW that will help you.
It would seem to me your rulings are not being respected by the players. Below is an excerpt from the DMG ch.8
Rules Discussions
You might need to set a policy on rules discussions at the table. Some groups don’t mind putting the game on hold while they hash out different interpretations of a rule. Others prefer to let the DM make a call and continue with the action. If you gloss over a rules issue in play, make a note of it (a good task to delegate to a player) and return to the issue later.
If it is your expectation that you will "make the call" then you will have to express that to your players. Otherwise, your players are going to continue to confront you with their demands.
Good luck
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Crag Cats do not have blindsight, so they can still be attacked by surprise, though it does mean they have advantage on passive perception to resist stealth. However, a snow storm with heavy concealment would render his invisibility moot because everyone is invisible.
I think initial responders should look at the features of the character and monster before rallying the DM.
DM, are you playing the Crag Cat RAW or adding features on them to defeat this Gloom Stalker? Crag Cats have Darkvision which is specifically thwarted by the Gloomstalkers' Umbral Sight. Nowhere in their stats blocks in either SKT or RotF are they given the keen senses trait given to say a wolf that you're granting them (they already have some traits above and beyond those of ordinary beasts).
If Crag Cats did have keen senses (smell and hearing) you got something to think about but I'm still with the Ranger. Wolves and dogs definitely hunt with smell and hearing, cats stalk as well with them too. However, actual attacks upon their prey is a very visual thing, especially for cats. The pounce (which Crag Cats even have stats as a trait) is triggered by visual motion cues.
Anyway, RAW the keen senses granted a wolf does not say they beat invisibility. Keen just gives them advantage to a perception check. Perception is not "drawing a bullseye" it's knowing something is there. Just like perception with a PC, they'll have a general sense of presence and vicinity but the sense that guides that attack will still be compromised. In other words, the Crag Cats may figure out that there's potential quarry in their proximity, but in combat with the Gloom Stalker, they're still blinded as far as advantage disadvantage.
Is there a reason you're trying to beat the Gloom Stalker's Umbral Sight by beefing up the monsters? It may be meta gaming, depending on the characters experience and native geography, but I'd protest this ruling too. This isn't a matter of interpretation, it seems more a desire to discount a PC's RAW advantages against features your creature doesn't really have.
As Pantagruel said Crag Cats don't have blindsight, nor keen senses as a creature feature. Moreover keen senses is not blindsight.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
In this case, I think an important rule has been forgotten: when rolling with advantage and disadvantage, they cancel - no matter how many sources they come from.
In this case, advantage from being invisible is cancelled by disadvantage for not being able to see the cats. So its a straight roll, and no other factors can make this shot have adv or disadv anymore.
As a DM, I wouldn't grant ANY perks for Keen Senses under Blizzard conditions because....well, sound and scent are going to be blowing everywhere, thus making the Keen Sense as close to pointless as one will see. That said, smell and hearing are rather non-detailed in MOST creatures. A Bloodhound can't attack based solely on scent, as it's not as accurate or reliable as vision. A Bat, CAN attack on sound, due to echo location, but an Owl, who also has insane hearing, cannot, as the hearing brings him NEAR the target, and sight locks it in.
If the Gloomy boy is abusing his power, I would suggest looking through the MM to find something he wouldn't expect to see/hear/sense him, and allow him to approach, cockily expecting the surprise attack, only to BE surprised, because he wasn't expecting the creature to recognize him. If he protests, I would simply point out that an NPC (or monster) has ALL the abilities he does and his overconfidence in his ability resulted in carelessness and thus getting smacked, rather soundly, as a result. Any time a PC is using/abusing something, I find a good way to show them is to get their foes to do the same thing. Any complaints are easily explained that UOU did this to 5-7 monsters, how can you complain that THEY can do it too?
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
I think Lyxen covered most of it.
However, to recap.
Crag cats do not have blindsight. If they had keen senses that would give them advantage on perception checks related to these senses (however, they do not have this trait either unless the DM modified the creatures in RotFM). Keen senses would make it harder for creatures to hide from them but it does not allow the crag cats to see the creatures, just to know where they are.
If a creature can not see a target then they have disadvantage on the attacks. If the target can not see the attacker then the attacker has advantage. These two instances of advantage and disadvantage cancel out making everything a straight roll. Gloomstalker invisibility doesn't matter in this case. An additional reason for advantage or disadvantage is irrelevant if there are already reasons for advantage and disadvantage to cancel.
This goes for magical darkness as well. A gloomstalker can't normally see in magical darkness so their invisibility doesn't help their attacks in magical darkness since they still can't see their opponent. This again makes it a straight roll. (In addition, gloomstalker invisibility requires that the creature be using darkvision to try to see the Gloomstalker - if that is not the case then gloomstalker invisibility does nothing).
If a creature has devil's sight (warlock version), the gloomstalker invisibility feature doesn't work at all since it requires darkness in which a creature is using darkvision to try and see them. Devils sight (warlock feature) is not darkvision and so Gloomstalker invisibility doesn't work against warlocks. However, RAW, gloomstalker invisibility does work against fiends with the Devils sight trait since it is specifically listed as an enhancement to their darkvision trait while the warlock version is not.
Anyway, the bottom line, RAW, is that the gloomstalker abilities will make no difference in a blizzard and both the characters and the crag cats should have been making straight attack rolls.
P.S. I checked the stat block for Crag Cats in the back of RotFM and they do not have any keen sense traits. If the DM wants to modify them to have keen senses or blindsight, that is fine but the OP should mention that they have changed the monster for their playing of the game so comments will make sense. (For example, if the cats were given blindsight then they could see the characters even with a blizzard while the characters could not see them - as a result the characters would have disadvantage while the cats would have advantage but ONLY if the cats have blindsight which by default, they do not.)
RotFM has some words in the Crag Cats random encounter: "During a blizzard, the crag cats rely on their hearing and sense of smell to track the characters while staying outside their prey’s range of visibility."
These don't really fit with the stat block.
Others have stated it in more oblique terms. I will make it clear.
The DM screwed up. It is a blizzard. Everyone, including the cats, are effectively operating under the Blinded condition, because everyone is operating in Heavily Obscured Conditions. All Disadvantages and Advantages cancel out, and all rolls are straight up. For EVERYONE, unless they have some form of Blindsight, or Tremorsense, or Keen Smell, or Keen Hearing. The Cats don't have those. Neither do the players.
I agree with blanket disadvantage as outlined. Separately I stand by my assertion that Crag Cats as stat blocked or the RotM "tracking method" doesn't foil Umbral Sight.
One thing I'm not sure about is "straight rolls" at least in this situation. I'm not sure off hand what RAW say about universal disadvantage though I admit reverting to straight rolls would move the action along faster. Rolling at disadvantage will slow down combat, but that's sort of the point, fighting in a blizzard is a slog fest. If you straight roll it, effects with timed durations (spells / magic items with a one minute effect) are also ignoring the environment. There's no point at all in a "blanket disadvantage" atmosphere if those timed effects don't peter out in the slog fest. It may be exhausting at the table, but that's sort of the point.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
This was also part of my confusion. The encounter stated that with the creatures hearing and smell that they could find the characters if a blizzard ocurred at the same time. Which it did. So forntje encounter I treated it as such. Still, some creatures do have the keen smell or hearing in the campaign which is why I asked.
Didn't see this before I replied, but yeah this is why. The characters also have vision within 30 feet, but Ranged attacks have disadvantage. Which said Ranger was using.
I didn't think this woukd get as much attention as it did, let me provide some more context. The Blizzard allows limited vision within 30 ft. Ranged attacks have disadvantage, and perception checks take a heavy hit. I did not modify the Crag Cats at all, based off the encounter which was said earlier, they could locate the adventurers through hearing and smell. The Ranger was invisible, but also using ranged weapon attacks. I was arguing at disadvantage because of how they located the adventurers. I reasoned that if that's how they found them then they could tell where they were regardless of invisibility. I have been thinking about this since and I decided that if a creature wanted to sniff out an invisible one they could use their action to locate the creature to be confident in where they're attacking. I'm still unsure if the attacks should still be at disadvantage or not because the creature has been located. Regardless, I did screw up, and the attacks should have been straight rolls. We fixed it and have talked and resolved it since.
From RotFM:
Blizzards
The blizzards that ravage Icewind Dale and harry travelers on the mountain pass are reflections of Auril’s self-imposed isolation. A blizzard in Icewind Dale typically lasts 2d4 hours, and whenever the characters are caught in one, the following rules apply until it ends.
A blizzard’s howling wind limits hearing to a range of 100 feet and imposes disadvantage on ranged weapon attack rolls. It also imposes disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing. The wind extinguishes open flames, disperses fog, erases tracks in the snow, and makes flying by nonmagical means nearly impossible. A creature falls at the end of its turn if it is flying by nonmagical means and can’t hover.
Visibility in a blizzard is reduced to 30 feet. Creatures without goggles or other eye protection have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight due to blowing snow.
I highlighted the important parts. Umbral Sight gives invisibility vs darkvision in darkness. The Cats do have darkvision.
So during a blizzard in the night:
100 to 30 ft: the cats know where the ranger is and move towards him unless the ranger uses his action to stealth. The ranger has no clue about the cats, unless he uses his action to roll a perception at disadvantage. I would set the DC at 17 because of the +7 those cats have in stealth. ( or a passiv perception of at least 22). Since he has no clue where the cats are or needs to spend his action to perceive them, he can not attack.
30 to 10 ft: the ranger can see the cats and attack, advantage from Umbral Sight and disadvantage from blizzard cancel each other out.
5ft: the ranger can still attack with a plain roll, because Umbral Sight cancels disadvantage from blizzard and close quarter.
5ft: The cats can attack but at disadvantage because of Umbral Sight and invisibility.
Attack: [roll]3d20dl2+6[/roll] Damage: [roll](if([roll:-1:critical], =0, 1d8, 2{1d8}.expand()))+4[/roll] Sneakattack: [roll](if([roll:-2:critical], =0, 2d6, 2{2d6}.expand()))[/roll]Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is that, while invisible creatures can be located with hearing and smell, all that means is that the crag cat would know the PC's location. They still attack the PC with disadvantage. The rules tier down as follows:
1) Invisible Creature that has used the hide action: creatures attacking have to guess the location, and the attack is an auto-miss unless they guess the right point. If the guess the right point the attack is still at disadvantage if the creature doesn't fill its space (since they still have to hit a creature smaller than a 5' square). A creature can make a perception check to search for a hidden invisible creature (possibly with advantage with keen senses, but in this case it might be a straight roll due to the blizzard)
2) Invisible Creature that hasn't used hide: creatures attacking will know the location (based on sound, smell, or tremorsense), so they don't have to guess the location. Attacks are still at disadvantage for the reason stated in #1
3) If an attacking creature has blindsight, truesight, or another means to see invisible creatures, then the Invisible creature gets no benefit from its invisibility from attacks made by the attacking creature.
I'm not familiar with RotFM and this particular encounter, but it seems from the baseline that the crag cats are able to locate a PC they can't see using their hearing/smell, so they would be able to attack an invisible creature that isn't hiding without an auto-miss, but would still have disadvantage...but if the invisible PC is also hiding, the crag cats would have to first search for the hidden PC...otherwise they are just guessing a location to attack, and then (only if they guessed the right spot) would the attack have a chance to hit (and only then with disadvantage)
Almost:
At 100', the cats detect the party unless the party succeeds at using stealth (possible if camping or traveling slowly), the party detects the cats unless the cats succeed at using stealth. Because of the blizzard, vision rolls automatically fail and hearing rolls are at disadvantage, so the passive perception of the party is reduced by 5. The same applies to the cats unless they have an applicable sense that is neither vision or hearing (however, all the cats have stealth, some of the party might not or might be really bad at it, or they might have a light source). Canonically crag cats don't have keen senses, but they probably should, other large cats such as a Panther or Tiger have keen scent. If the cats are detected, ranged attacks are at both advantage (unseen attacker) and disadvantage (target has full concealment) which is net neutral (this is one of the dumber rules artifacts in 5e, I house rule it as 'an attacker which can see its target but cannot be seen by its target has advantage').
Also, I would note that darkvision converts darkness to dim light, not bright light, so it's risky when traveling over terrain that may have natural hazards that you want to spot before you walk into them.
Thanks for all the help guys, I feel like I have a pretty good sense of what to do in this encounter now.