So, recently I had a new player join my group along with his wife. We had been playing for about a year before this and they had asked one of my other players if they could observe a session. This dude initially balked at the concept and said that he didn't want to put the work into playing the game, which I thought was totally fair, but his wife REALLY took to the game immediately and said that she wanted to come back and play on a regular basis, so we agreed to add her and possibly him to the party if he decided he really wanted to play. I politely threw in the caveat that if he didn't want to play then the game would be no fun for him and he should probably do something else with his time.
Well, the following week he and his wife showed up two hours early to make characters. He decided that he wanted to play and I helped him make a simple fighter character that had a great armor class and all he did was attack, very simple to play. Right away he started to fall into common new player traps. I saw it coming and had all my bases covered, i.e. "No, you can't aim for his eye, it is assumed that you are always aiming for the most vital area you can hit." "Magic items are very rare and are not readily available, you have to find them." "Just because YOU know that doesn't mean your CHARACTER knows that." etc...
At one point in the session, the party makes a deal with a group of enemy NPCs they were fighting to cease hostilities between them. He doesn't like the deal, so when the other players leave he takes them on himself, all six of them. I literally said to him "It is apparent to your character that if you attempt to fight this group it will be certain death." He still rushes in headlong and is knocked unconscious in the first round. I figure that since he is so new that I will give him a pass and instead of the NPCs slitting his throat they decide he isn't worth their time and let him bleed out. He succeeds his death saving throws and rejoins the group later. Woof! I am now beginning to wonder if he actually wants to play or if wife is just dragging him along.
The next session is a complete disaster, one of the most painful sessions that I have ever participated in. It starts well, with a very intense boss fight against a Flameskull. The party is doing great, using strategy to whittle it down and overcome its shield spell. It was a great fight. When it ends the skull falls to the ground and he goes over to pick it up and put it in his bag. Ok. Fine. An hour later the Flameskull bursts to life in the backpack and starts attacking the group while they are sleeping. It is quickly killed by another player. Then this guy does something I have never quite seen in a group before. He says "I wait for it to come back to life so that I can attack it again." I respond "why would you do that?" "Because I want to kill it again for experience." He says.
I politely tell him that it doesn't work that way, but he is insistent that his character "never gives up and would take the Flameskull on until it was dead, no matter what. It says so in my background" I ever so politely tell him that doesn't necessarily mean that he would attack it. Perhaps he should work with the other players to find a solution to the problem so that he can succeed in his goal of defeating the Flameskull without giving up. "Nope, my character would just keep attacking it until it was dead."
At this point the other players have all left the room except his wife who is staring daggers at him. "I guess *name* is going to play D&D by himself." She says. So the other PCs move to different areas of the dungeon, having no part of this and let him fight the Flameskull by himself. It comes to life, and he barely survives the fight. Then, predictably, he decided he wants to wait and fight it again. Now, I just tell him that we don't have time for that and we need to move along. I am so tired of the encounter and the table is so miserable that we just decided that the players parley with the Flameskull and decide to live and let unlive. Not the outcome I had hoped for, but at least we got to move on. The session ambles on to the end, but no one is having fun and his wife is looking increasingly embarrassed. Incidentally, she is a natural who is really enjoying the game and playing well. I also notice that several times toward the end of the session he starts packing up his bag early and his wife has to tell him that they are not done.
So, the next session is in two weeks. What are your thoughts on what I should do? Is this guy just screwing up my campaign on purpose because his wife is making him play or is he just that dumb? I need help!
P.S. The guy is just also generally a tool. He does things like talk over people, lick his fingers when he eats, and he actually broke another player's custom figurine by slamming it down on the table to make a point. In short, he is the worst.
Edit: If I am being completely fair, I am pretty sure he did not mean to break the figurine. When the he announced that he was taking on the flameskull again the rogue player ducked behind a corner and said "you're on your own" and problem player said "no, you're right here with me" and slammed it down so hard that it broke. He did seem remorseful, but then again he wasn't pulling $40 out of his wallet to replace the broken figurine.
Edit: Just another clarification. A lot of posters have suggested that maybe he isn’t happy with gis character. I think he loves it actually. We designed it together. He specifically chose a character that was easy to play and tanky.
Edit: Oh and the plot thickens! Now I hear that wife has Covid and likely had it at the table. If she had symptoms that is unforgivable. I would have to kick her on principle. One of my players is unvaccinated. When I had a sniffle last month I stayed home like a responsible person.
Edit:
We sat our problem player down, my co-DM and I and had a frank discussion with him about the way he has been playing. I started by telling him that the other players have not been having fun at the last two sessions, which is absolutely true. We had an discussion via text over the last couple of weeks and we all agreed that his play was a problem and it was interfering with their enjoyment of the game.
I told him that he was making decisions that were logically indefensible and that caused us to spend an inordinate amount of time focused on his character to the exclusion of the rest of the table. I went on to say that we wanted him to think more carefully about how he played his character and how it affected the other players at the table.
He immediately shot back with "Well on my character sheet it says I never give up so that's why I (attacked those six powerful NPCs, kept attacking the skull, went off alone, etc.). I told him that there were many ways to play a character who never gives up. You can have him swear an oath of vengeance or roleplay calling the other characters cowards. He dug in and said that he was going to play the character the way he wanted to.
Well, I told him truly that I was busy cooking dinner for everyone so I didn't have the time to expand on my suggestions but I recommended he stop making indefensible decisions and stop hogging the spotlight. I didn't bother to listen to his response. My co-DM really did some heavy lifting, he sat on my porch for half-an-hour before the game started explaining the basics of roleplaying to him. He finally got him to agree that if he were facing an army of 10,000 men that he wouldn't just go off and attack them all and that surrendering or running away wouldn't be "giving up."
I had pretty low hopes for the session. We did our session zero and we covered everything in the previous post. Metagaming, table talk, hogging the spotlight, and--most importantly--what kind of game we wanted to play. He seemed uncharacteristically silent throughout the conversation, but he gave his feedback when we asked him questions and he asked his own questions when he wanted to know something.
I was admittedly a little authoritative with the table during the session. I made sure things moved forward and that everyone was taking their turns in a timely manner. I wanted to show the table that I meant business. He was pretty well behaved. At one point, in the middle of a pursuit, he asked if he could take a short rest, to which the rest of the table politely scoffed. One other player, also a dwarf, said in character "What kind of dwarven warrior are you to rest when our enemies are at our heels." He didn't persist and just moved on. Interestingly, he played his character pretty well otherwise. He is a fighter with the protection fighting style and quite a few times he positioned himself just so he could defend another player. At one point he was down to a quarter of his hit points and when another player went to heal him he said, "Don't, the monster is almost dead, I can hold out for another round." I was pleasantly surprised as EVERYTHING up to this point forecast him being a problem.
One player remarked that he looked like he had his "tail between his legs." I think that the combination of the indisputable logic of my co-DM coupled with the knowledge that we meant business resulted in a "come to Jesus" attitude. I don't think we are out of the woods yet, now we have to embrace him and let him know that we like him so much better this way: reward good behavior. I am cautiously optimistic.
Also, his wife played well, enjoyed herself and did not get dragged into this mess. I am especially grateful to the people who suggested we leave her out of the equation. It's not her job to manage her husband. He is an adult after all. A thousand thanks to everyone who gave me their help and feedback. I will continue to provide updates as I think this could be a good reference for other DMs dealing with problem players.
Edit: I almost didn't mention this because I don't want to sound arrogant or manipulative and it is not the reason that I did these things but when his wife was sick I made her a gallon of chicken soup, and my chicken soup is legit awesome. i also cooked the whole table a nice meal before the session (a tradition in our group). It's pretty hard to get angry at someone who is feeding you, just sayin' ;)
Edit:
This is the final update. I am pleased to say that the player has made a complete 180. We just had another session and he was great. I am really kind of floored by how well he has adapted to the table dynamics and roleplaying. He may be as much of a natural as his wife in fact.
In one particularly tough encounter, where the PCs were taking a lot of damage, he had the brilliant idea to use his big 20 strength to brace the door and hold back half of the reinforcements streaming through. He stood in a blade barrier that the bard had thrown up for a round and he may have turned the fight by himself. He also had a great roleplaying moment where he, a lawful evil character, was stealing stone beads from dwarven tombs because I said that they would be worth about a GP each and he and the other dwarven character in the group, Lawful Good, got into a fistfight. It was great fun. He later asked if it was ok that he did that and I told him honestly that it was great!
Thanks again for all the help. I hope that someone else finds this thread as useful as I have.
Boot him out and be done with it. You've tried every reasonable approach. Tell his wife that you are sorry, and will miss her, but if she comes she must leave him behind. No one player should be allowed to spoil the fun for everyone else.
You truly do seem to have a problem player. If possible a side chat with he and the wife, if you and she agree, might do some good. A lot of the actions he's taking remind me of mmo tactics to level up and stuff. Might be he still needs a better understanding of it and/or a walk away from it. His style is NOT helping anyone at the table and ruining the game for the others. It could well be a complete misunderstanding of what D&D is, but the churlish behavior (slamming things down a like a toddler) is way out of line, for any table.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
If I am being completely fair, I am pretty sure he did not mean to break his figurine. When the he announced that he was taking on the flameskull again the rogue player ducked behind a corner and said "you're on your own" and problem player said "no, you're right here with me." He did seem remorseful, but then again he wasn't pulling $40 out of his wallet to replace the broken figurine.
Talk to his wife, if she is giving him daggers and not happy then she may have already had a serious talk with him. If she has then the problem may be resolved and you may find she is coming on her own anyway, explain to her that he is ruining the game and ask her what the neat way is to approach it.
Yeah, if it were me I would have killed him. I guess it’s hard to get angry if the guy whom he wronged took it in stride, but he is a hell of a lot nicer than me.
Boot him. It’s always scary having to reprimand or kick a player, but a big part of the game is keeping the whole table happy, and respecting the fun of the rest of the party and his wife especially may actually mean suggesting that this campaign may not suit his style of play.
The kill his character approach really almost never works, you can’t use an in game option to handle an out of game problem. If you have concerns about talking to him then wrote down what you wan to say, donut away from the table and talk to him and his wife seperetly.
It seems to me that he either doesn’t understand what the game is and thinks it’s all just a joke or, is possibly aggressively taking it out on his wife that she wants to have run away from him. There might be some bigger isssues here and it isn’t your place to deal with them. Talk to the 2 of them, ideally her first, have that session 0 that you possibly should have had anyway with them and talk about table etiquette, the rules of the game, how he is hogging the game time and needs to share more.
Also talk to him about if this character is actually what he wants to play, you said you built him a fighter but he might feel like the control of what he wanted his character to be has been taken away. Maybe he doesn’t want to be the guy who just hits things.
Kill his character. Next time have the bandits or flameskull kill him.
Honestly I think that this is the best response to his in-game antics of wanting to do things his own way and to hell with everyone else. He gets in a fight on his own, that you tell him will kill him - have it kill him. Make him spend some time not playing whilst he makes his new character, and then explain to him that he can't just spawn mid-dungeon, that he has to actually be introduced to the party. After doing this twice, he will not want to be running solo any more, and should start to realise that his actions have consequences.
For his out-of-game actions, he also needs to learn that the real world has consequences. Ask him if he has offered to replace the custom mini, and explain that it was expensive and took a lot of time to paint. If he refuses, explain that you can't have people at the table who will break other peoples things without offering to replace them. It might be he thinks it's a toy and only worth pennies, if he's that ignorant of the gaming world.
When he's talking over people, put him in his place. Tell him he's not talking now, and that he needs to shut up. tell him he'll get his chance to speak, but he needs to remember that the only person here for his entertainment is the DM, everyone else is just as important in the game as he is.
If you do have a conversation with him, don't involve his wife. He's old enough to get married, he's old enough to deal with his problems himself. Involving the wife will go one of two ways - the wife agrees with you, and he feels like she is conspiring against him. Or the wife backs him up and asks you for another chance for him, putting you in an awkward position. Talk to him, alone. Tell him you appreciate his enthusiasm but he needs to reign in the over-talking, work as part of a group not a lone wolf, and pay for the damage he's done to the miniature.
Thanks to everyone for your feedback. I still haven’t decided what to do but I am leaning toward simply booting him. I can call the wife, explain the situation, offer her a spot at the table but tell her that her husband is a no go. I can also offer to deliver the news to him myself, I don’t want to look cowardly.
This might cause some fallout among players who are friends with him, but I will pay that cost. Input a lot of effort into running a good game, if you don’t want to play, that’s on you. You and dudebro can start your own game.
If I can vent for another second what is pushing me toward this decision is that he seems to be just incorrigible. This is not a problem of simply ignorance of the rules but one of social graces. You don’t come into a bunch of strangers’ thing and have the temerity to think that you Can dominate the table from the get. You should be humble, polite, and willing to learn.
This is a problem of social skills. That is not something that you canlesrn from a D&D rulebook.
Thanks to everyone for your feedback. I still haven’t decided what to do but I am leaning toward simply booting him. I can call the wife, explain the situation, offer her a spot at the table but tell her that her husband is a no go. I can also offer to deliver the news to him myself, I don’t want to look cowardly.
This might cause some fallout among players who are friends with him, but I will pay that cost. Input a lot of effort into running a good game, if you don’t want to play, that’s on you. You and dudebro can start your own game.
If I can vent for another second what is pushing me toward this decision is that he seems to be just incorrigible. This is not a problem of simply ignorance of the rules but one of social graces. You don’t come into a bunch of strangers’ thing and have the temerity to think that you Can dominate the table from the get. You should be humble, polite, and willing to learn.
This is a problem of social skills. That is not something that you canlesrn from a D&D rulebook.
I would always try and give someone an opportunity to learn, simply booting him with no option of him to apologize and try and be better is a very strong reaction. I like to think of it as any social situation, I have had people who have acted awfully out at a bar, or in a club, or at other events. We don’t cut them off and never speak to them again, we talk to them, try and explain that the behavior was unacceptable and why and give them a chance to be better. There may be clear reasons he is acting this way that are game related, it is your game and you are free to do as you think is best but I do think that DMs on here are sometimes far too quick to not try and get to the route cause if an issue and put it down simply to the player. There was a post a while back on here where a problem player was causing issues. Loads of DMs said to kick him, kill his character. The DM came back after a while and explained he had talked to the player, learnt there where issues that player was having with their character and so changes where made to subclass and back story and ever since then the player has been great.
Sometimes you have to boot someone, but sometimes you need to have that tough conversation first and find out the why. This may be a case of him not understanding the etiquette of the table, or the way the game should be played at your table. It might be that he isn’t enjoying the character you made for him, maybe he doesn’t want to be a fighter or totally gets that you gave him the simple hit things hard class, maybe he is looking for a beer and kill table, that isn’t your table but you can explain that to him and maybe suggest how he can find a group like that, or maybe he is a ****** in which case kick him. Unless you actually take the time to talk to him and try and resolve it you won’t know, throughout life I have had people in many situations who started out being an idiot become great firm friends after being called out on what they where doing and finding out there was a reason for it and they where not actually that person.
Thanks to everyone for your feedback. I still haven’t decided what to do but I am leaning toward simply booting him. I can call the wife, explain the situation, offer her a spot at the table but tell her that her husband is a no go. I can also offer to deliver the news to him myself, I don’t want to look cowardly.
This might cause some fallout among players who are friends with him, but I will pay that cost. Input a lot of effort into running a good game, if you don’t want to play, that’s on you. You and dudebro can start your own game.
If I can vent for another second what is pushing me toward this decision is that he seems to be just incorrigible. This is not a problem of simply ignorance of the rules but one of social graces. You don’t come into a bunch of strangers’ thing and have the temerity to think that you Can dominate the table from the get. You should be humble, polite, and willing to learn.
This is a problem of social skills. That is not something that you canlesrn from a D&D rulebook.
I would always try and give someone an opportunity to learn, simply booting him with no option of him to apologize and try and be better is a very strong reaction. I like to think of it as any social situation, I have had people who have acted awfully out at a bar, or in a club, or at other events. We don’t cut them off and never speak to them again, we talk to them, try and explain that the behavior was unacceptable and why and give them a chance to be better. There may be clear reasons he is acting this way that are game related, it is your game and you are free to do as you think is best but I do think that DMs on here are sometimes far too quick to not try and get to the route cause if an issue and put it down simply to the player. There was a post a while back on here where a problem player was causing issues. Loads of DMs said to kick him, kill his character. The DM came back after a while and explained he had talked to the player, learnt there where issues that player was having with their character and so changes where made to subclass and back story and ever since then the player has been great.
Sometimes you have to boot someone, but sometimes you need to have that tough conversation first and find out the why. This may be a case of him not understanding the etiquette of the table, or the way the game should be played at your table. It might be that he isn’t enjoying the character you made for him, maybe he doesn’t want to be a fighter or totally gets that you gave him the simple hit things hard class, maybe he is looking for a beer and kill table, that isn’t your table but you can explain that to him and maybe suggest how he can find a group like that, or maybe he is a ****** in which case kick him. Unless you actually take the time to talk to him and try and resolve it you won’t know, throughout life I have had people in many situations who started out being an idiot become great firm friends after being called out on what they where doing and finding out there was a reason for it and they where not actually that person.
18 Wisdom post. TY.
My concern is that if I try to come to an understanding with him and fail, he is going to cost me sessions worth of planning and fun. I also must admit, I didn’t want to go there but he kind of scares me a little. He is aggressive, big, and in great shape and his body language seems to convey that he wants to he in control. For instance, he noticed I was standing for most of the session. I am a very active DM and it is easier to manage the board on my feet, so he started to stand about half way through the session. I am worried that if I say “sorry you can’t make an attack of opportunity you already used your reaction.” He will come back with “I’m gonna kick your ass!!”
Thanks to everyone for your feedback. I still haven’t decided what to do but I am leaning toward simply booting him. I can call the wife, explain the situation, offer her a spot at the table but tell her that her husband is a no go. I can also offer to deliver the news to him myself, I don’t want to look cowardly.
This might cause some fallout among players who are friends with him, but I will pay that cost. Input a lot of effort into running a good game, if you don’t want to play, that’s on you. You and dudebro can start your own game.
If I can vent for another second what is pushing me toward this decision is that he seems to be just incorrigible. This is not a problem of simply ignorance of the rules but one of social graces. You don’t come into a bunch of strangers’ thing and have the temerity to think that you Can dominate the table from the get. You should be humble, polite, and willing to learn.
This is a problem of social skills. That is not something that you canlesrn from a D&D rulebook.
I would always try and give someone an opportunity to learn, simply booting him with no option of him to apologize and try and be better is a very strong reaction. I like to think of it as any social situation, I have had people who have acted awfully out at a bar, or in a club, or at other events. We don’t cut them off and never speak to them again, we talk to them, try and explain that the behavior was unacceptable and why and give them a chance to be better. There may be clear reasons he is acting this way that are game related, it is your game and you are free to do as you think is best but I do think that DMs on here are sometimes far too quick to not try and get to the route cause if an issue and put it down simply to the player. There was a post a while back on here where a problem player was causing issues. Loads of DMs said to kick him, kill his character. The DM came back after a while and explained he had talked to the player, learnt there where issues that player was having with their character and so changes where made to subclass and back story and ever since then the player has been great.
Sometimes you have to boot someone, but sometimes you need to have that tough conversation first and find out the why. This may be a case of him not understanding the etiquette of the table, or the way the game should be played at your table. It might be that he isn’t enjoying the character you made for him, maybe he doesn’t want to be a fighter or totally gets that you gave him the simple hit things hard class, maybe he is looking for a beer and kill table, that isn’t your table but you can explain that to him and maybe suggest how he can find a group like that, or maybe he is a ****** in which case kick him. Unless you actually take the time to talk to him and try and resolve it you won’t know, throughout life I have had people in many situations who started out being an idiot become great firm friends after being called out on what they where doing and finding out there was a reason for it and they where not actually that person.
18 Wisdom post. TY.
My concern is that if I try to come to an understanding with him and fail, he is going to cost me sessions worth of planning and fun. I also must admit, I didn’t want to go there but he kind of scares me a little. He is aggressive, big, and in great shape and his body language seems to convey that he wants to he in control. For instance, he noticed I was standing for most of the session. I am a very active DM and it is easier to manage the board on my feet, so he started to stand about half way through the session. I am worried that if I say “sorry you can’t make an attack of opportunity you already used your reaction.” He will come back with “I’m gonna kick your ass!!”
I am not suggesting an ongoing thing with lots of chances, you talk to him and give him one session to improve. You explain to him it’s a game with rules and you are in charge of those rules. If he isn’t happy with that then he doesn’t have to play.
See this as a great experience for you as well, there will be times in your life you will have to try and deal with a situation like this and won’t have the ability to just kick them out or walk away, he isn’t going to hit you, remember his friends are there at the table and they are your friends so it won’t happen but he might actually get it and become a good valid member of your group.
Thanks to everyone for your feedback. I still haven’t decided what to do but I am leaning toward simply booting him. I can call the wife, explain the situation, offer her a spot at the table but tell her that her husband is a no go. I can also offer to deliver the news to him myself, I don’t want to look cowardly.
This might cause some fallout among players who are friends with him, but I will pay that cost. Input a lot of effort into running a good game, if you don’t want to play, that’s on you. You and dudebro can start your own game.
If I can vent for another second what is pushing me toward this decision is that he seems to be just incorrigible. This is not a problem of simply ignorance of the rules but one of social graces. You don’t come into a bunch of strangers’ thing and have the temerity to think that you Can dominate the table from the get. You should be humble, polite, and willing to learn.
This is a problem of social skills. That is not something that you canlesrn from a D&D rulebook.
I would always try and give someone an opportunity to learn, simply booting him with no option of him to apologize and try and be better is a very strong reaction. I like to think of it as any social situation, I have had people who have acted awfully out at a bar, or in a club, or at other events. We don’t cut them off and never speak to them again, we talk to them, try and explain that the behavior was unacceptable and why and give them a chance to be better. There may be clear reasons he is acting this way that are game related, it is your game and you are free to do as you think is best but I do think that DMs on here are sometimes far too quick to not try and get to the route cause if an issue and put it down simply to the player. There was a post a while back on here where a problem player was causing issues. Loads of DMs said to kick him, kill his character. The DM came back after a while and explained he had talked to the player, learnt there where issues that player was having with their character and so changes where made to subclass and back story and ever since then the player has been great.
Sometimes you have to boot someone, but sometimes you need to have that tough conversation first and find out the why. This may be a case of him not understanding the etiquette of the table, or the way the game should be played at your table. It might be that he isn’t enjoying the character you made for him, maybe he doesn’t want to be a fighter or totally gets that you gave him the simple hit things hard class, maybe he is looking for a beer and kill table, that isn’t your table but you can explain that to him and maybe suggest how he can find a group like that, or maybe he is a ****** in which case kick him. Unless you actually take the time to talk to him and try and resolve it you won’t know, throughout life I have had people in many situations who started out being an idiot become great firm friends after being called out on what they where doing and finding out there was a reason for it and they where not actually that person.
18 Wisdom post. TY.
My concern is that if I try to come to an understanding with him and fail, he is going to cost me sessions worth of planning and fun. I also must admit, I didn’t want to go there but he kind of scares me a little. He is aggressive, big, and in great shape and his body language seems to convey that he wants to he in control. For instance, he noticed I was standing for most of the session. I am a very active DM and it is easier to manage the board on my feet, so he started to stand about half way through the session. I am worried that if I say “sorry you can’t make an attack of opportunity you already used your reaction.” He will come back with “I’m gonna kick your ass!!”
I am not suggesting an ongoing thing with lots of chances, you talk to him and give him one session to improve. You explain to him it’s a game with rules and you are in charge of those rules. If he isn’t happy with that then he doesn’t have to play.
See this as a great experience for you as well, there will be times in your life you will have to try and deal with a situation like this and won’t have the ability to just kick them out or walk away, he isn’t going to hit you, remember his friends are there at the table and they are your friends so it won’t happen but he might actually get it and become a good valid member of your group.
Sure. Will take all that into consideration. Thanks.
Kill his character. Next time have the bandits or flameskull kill him.
Honestly I think that this is the best response to his in-game antics of wanting to do things his own way and to hell with everyone else. He gets in a fight on his own, that you tell him will kill him - have it kill him. Make him spend some time not playing whilst he makes his new character, and then explain to him that he can't just spawn mid-dungeon, that he has to actually be introduced to the party. After doing this twice, he will not want to be running solo any more, and should start to realise that his actions have consequences.
For his out-of-game actions, he also needs to learn that the real world has consequences. Ask him if he has offered to replace the custom mini, and explain that it was expensive and took a lot of time to paint. If he refuses, explain that you can't have people at the table who will break other peoples things without offering to replace them. It might be he thinks it's a toy and only worth pennies, if he's that ignorant of the gaming world.
When he's talking over people, put him in his place. Tell him he's not talking now, and that he needs to shut up. tell him he'll get his chance to speak, but he needs to remember that the only person here for his entertainment is the DM, everyone else is just as important in the game as he is.
If you do have a conversation with him, don't involve his wife. He's old enough to get married, he's old enough to deal with his problems himself. Involving the wife will go one of two ways - the wife agrees with you, and he feels like she is conspiring against him. Or the wife backs him up and asks you for another chance for him, putting you in an awkward position. Talk to him, alone. Tell him you appreciate his enthusiasm but he needs to reign in the over-talking, work as part of a group not a lone wolf, and pay for the damage he's done to the miniature.
This is all excellent advice. Especially the part about there being other issues there that are out of my control and are frankly none of my business. They are the kind of couple that bickers and fights in public and makes everyone uncomfortable.
Kill his character. Next time have the bandits or flameskull kill him.
Honestly I think that this is the best response to his in-game antics of wanting to do things his own way and to hell with everyone else. He gets in a fight on his own, that you tell him will kill him - have it kill him. Make him spend some time not playing whilst he makes his new character, and then explain to him that he can't just spawn mid-dungeon, that he has to actually be introduced to the party. After doing this twice, he will not want to be running solo any more, and should start to realise that his actions have consequences.
For his out-of-game actions, he also needs to learn that the real world has consequences. Ask him if he has offered to replace the custom mini, and explain that it was expensive and took a lot of time to paint. If he refuses, explain that you can't have people at the table who will break other peoples things without offering to replace them. It might be he thinks it's a toy and only worth pennies, if he's that ignorant of the gaming world.
When he's talking over people, put him in his place. Tell him he's not talking now, and that he needs to shut up. tell him he'll get his chance to speak, but he needs to remember that the only person here for his entertainment is the DM, everyone else is just as important in the game as he is.
If you do have a conversation with him, don't involve his wife. He's old enough to get married, he's old enough to deal with his problems himself. Involving the wife will go one of two ways - the wife agrees with you, and he feels like she is conspiring against him. Or the wife backs him up and asks you for another chance for him, putting you in an awkward position. Talk to him, alone. Tell him you appreciate his enthusiasm but he needs to reign in the over-talking, work as part of a group not a lone wolf, and pay for the damage he's done to the miniature.
This is all excellent advice. Especially the part about there being other issues there that are out of my control and are frankly none of my business. They are the kind of couple that bickers and fights in public and makes everyone uncomfortable.
Right. The thing is, D&D isn’t just your average social gathering. There is a certain formality to it that everyone needs to understand. Think of a business meeting, where everyone has their chance to speak in turn and isn’t interrupted and where chaos and off topic chatter isn’t tolerated.
That said, the whole point is to have a good time but that formality needs to be respected.
Than you all again for the advice. Here is an update on the situation:
I invited all my regular players to a group chat and simply asked "Has anyone had any fun the past two sessions?" Their answers ranged from "No way." to "Yes, but..." We are all basically in agreement that either this dude has to shape up and decide to share the spotlight, not be so aggressive, and stop making logically indefensible decisions or he is gone. I had already been planning on a new session zero just to level characters up and get a pulse on the game. It really should have happened when the two new players joined.
As of right now my plan is this:
1) I am going to have the next session at my home instead of one of my player's homes. This way if I need to kick someone out I will be in my own house and there will be no disagreement.
2) I am going to have one of my players who has a good relationship with his wife talk to her about the state of the campaign while my co-DM and I (we switch back and forth between dungeon levels in a megadungeon) will take him aside and gently explain that his playstyle and attitude are causing a disruption, we are going to set some new ground rules at a new session zero, and if he doesn't follow those rules then we may have to boot him and possibly his wife. I also learned that he did not offer to pay for my other player's figurine. I will suggest that he do so, even if he refuses I feel that he is obliged to offer.
3) During session zero I will lay out a set of ground rules and get buy in as well as gather the players' feedback. I will touch on the following rules that apply directly to him:
a) Don't hog the spotlight and be quiet during others turns. This is a collaborative experience, everyone will get time in the spotlight, be respectful and give others their time.
b) If you want to challenge a ruling, please have a rule ready to justify the ruling (this is big at our table, we are rules lawyers and it is part of the fun of the game for us). Do not appeal to the laws of physics or "common sense" this is a fantasy game with rules. In real life you can trip and break your neck, in this world you can fall 100 feet and still survive. If you want to challenge a ruling, bone up.
One of my players, the one who invited them, offered to break the news to them if he does not shape up. I will not put her through this. If he acts like an ass for one more session then I am going to boot him and I will be more than happy to break the news to him, if anything I am maybe a bit too eager. If he does anything egregious at the table like calling people names or threatening someone then he is gone then and there. It's my house and I won't tolerate it. I hope it doesn't come to that, but with this guy I plan on being ready for anything.
Hmm. This is a very interesting situation. I would recommend you do the following.
Have a talk with him, pull him and his wife aside and share with them your concerns. I recommend you do it in a kind but firm manner. Leave nothing to up for interpretation, in no uncertain term.
Ask him questions and get answers straight from him. Is he really enjoying the game? Does he think that other people are enjoying the game? What does he think he is bringing to the table? Does he think his character behaves in a logically consistent way?
Discuss possible fixes such as him making changes as a player, or you all making changes to his character.
If everything else fails, then ask him to politely not show up anymore.
I think you have a good plan. Now, just be prepared to follow through with it if he does not change his ways (which unfortunately sounds likely). Don't put up with this kind of stuff. Everyone at the table deserves better. It's a shame his wife might end up deprived of the chance to play.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So, recently I had a new player join my group along with his wife. We had been playing for about a year before this and they had asked one of my other players if they could observe a session. This dude initially balked at the concept and said that he didn't want to put the work into playing the game, which I thought was totally fair, but his wife REALLY took to the game immediately and said that she wanted to come back and play on a regular basis, so we agreed to add her and possibly him to the party if he decided he really wanted to play. I politely threw in the caveat that if he didn't want to play then the game would be no fun for him and he should probably do something else with his time.
Well, the following week he and his wife showed up two hours early to make characters. He decided that he wanted to play and I helped him make a simple fighter character that had a great armor class and all he did was attack, very simple to play. Right away he started to fall into common new player traps. I saw it coming and had all my bases covered, i.e. "No, you can't aim for his eye, it is assumed that you are always aiming for the most vital area you can hit." "Magic items are very rare and are not readily available, you have to find them." "Just because YOU know that doesn't mean your CHARACTER knows that." etc...
At one point in the session, the party makes a deal with a group of enemy NPCs they were fighting to cease hostilities between them. He doesn't like the deal, so when the other players leave he takes them on himself, all six of them. I literally said to him "It is apparent to your character that if you attempt to fight this group it will be certain death." He still rushes in headlong and is knocked unconscious in the first round. I figure that since he is so new that I will give him a pass and instead of the NPCs slitting his throat they decide he isn't worth their time and let him bleed out. He succeeds his death saving throws and rejoins the group later. Woof! I am now beginning to wonder if he actually wants to play or if wife is just dragging him along.
The next session is a complete disaster, one of the most painful sessions that I have ever participated in. It starts well, with a very intense boss fight against a Flameskull. The party is doing great, using strategy to whittle it down and overcome its shield spell. It was a great fight. When it ends the skull falls to the ground and he goes over to pick it up and put it in his bag. Ok. Fine. An hour later the Flameskull bursts to life in the backpack and starts attacking the group while they are sleeping. It is quickly killed by another player. Then this guy does something I have never quite seen in a group before. He says "I wait for it to come back to life so that I can attack it again." I respond "why would you do that?" "Because I want to kill it again for experience." He says.
I politely tell him that it doesn't work that way, but he is insistent that his character "never gives up and would take the Flameskull on until it was dead, no matter what. It says so in my background" I ever so politely tell him that doesn't necessarily mean that he would attack it. Perhaps he should work with the other players to find a solution to the problem so that he can succeed in his goal of defeating the Flameskull without giving up. "Nope, my character would just keep attacking it until it was dead."
At this point the other players have all left the room except his wife who is staring daggers at him. "I guess *name* is going to play D&D by himself." She says. So the other PCs move to different areas of the dungeon, having no part of this and let him fight the Flameskull by himself. It comes to life, and he barely survives the fight. Then, predictably, he decided he wants to wait and fight it again. Now, I just tell him that we don't have time for that and we need to move along. I am so tired of the encounter and the table is so miserable that we just decided that the players parley with the Flameskull and decide to live and let unlive. Not the outcome I had hoped for, but at least we got to move on. The session ambles on to the end, but no one is having fun and his wife is looking increasingly embarrassed. Incidentally, she is a natural who is really enjoying the game and playing well. I also notice that several times toward the end of the session he starts packing up his bag early and his wife has to tell him that they are not done.
So, the next session is in two weeks. What are your thoughts on what I should do? Is this guy just screwing up my campaign on purpose because his wife is making him play or is he just that dumb? I need help!
P.S. The guy is just also generally a tool. He does things like talk over people, lick his fingers when he eats, and he actually broke another player's custom figurine by slamming it down on the table to make a point. In short, he is the worst.
Edit: If I am being completely fair, I am pretty sure he did not mean to break the figurine. When the he announced that he was taking on the flameskull again the rogue player ducked behind a corner and said "you're on your own" and problem player said "no, you're right here with me" and slammed it down so hard that it broke. He did seem remorseful, but then again he wasn't pulling $40 out of his wallet to replace the broken figurine.
Edit: Just another clarification. A lot of posters have suggested that maybe he isn’t happy with gis character. I think he loves it actually. We designed it together. He specifically chose a character that was easy to play and tanky.
Edit: Oh and the plot thickens! Now I hear that wife has Covid and likely had it at the table. If she had symptoms that is unforgivable. I would have to kick her on principle. One of my players is unvaccinated. When I had a sniffle last month I stayed home like a responsible person.
Edit:
We sat our problem player down, my co-DM and I and had a frank discussion with him about the way he has been playing. I started by telling him that the other players have not been having fun at the last two sessions, which is absolutely true. We had an discussion via text over the last couple of weeks and we all agreed that his play was a problem and it was interfering with their enjoyment of the game.
I told him that he was making decisions that were logically indefensible and that caused us to spend an inordinate amount of time focused on his character to the exclusion of the rest of the table. I went on to say that we wanted him to think more carefully about how he played his character and how it affected the other players at the table.
He immediately shot back with "Well on my character sheet it says I never give up so that's why I (attacked those six powerful NPCs, kept attacking the skull, went off alone, etc.). I told him that there were many ways to play a character who never gives up. You can have him swear an oath of vengeance or roleplay calling the other characters cowards. He dug in and said that he was going to play the character the way he wanted to.
Well, I told him truly that I was busy cooking dinner for everyone so I didn't have the time to expand on my suggestions but I recommended he stop making indefensible decisions and stop hogging the spotlight. I didn't bother to listen to his response. My co-DM really did some heavy lifting, he sat on my porch for half-an-hour before the game started explaining the basics of roleplaying to him. He finally got him to agree that if he were facing an army of 10,000 men that he wouldn't just go off and attack them all and that surrendering or running away wouldn't be "giving up."
I had pretty low hopes for the session. We did our session zero and we covered everything in the previous post. Metagaming, table talk, hogging the spotlight, and--most importantly--what kind of game we wanted to play. He seemed uncharacteristically silent throughout the conversation, but he gave his feedback when we asked him questions and he asked his own questions when he wanted to know something.
I was admittedly a little authoritative with the table during the session. I made sure things moved forward and that everyone was taking their turns in a timely manner. I wanted to show the table that I meant business. He was pretty well behaved. At one point, in the middle of a pursuit, he asked if he could take a short rest, to which the rest of the table politely scoffed. One other player, also a dwarf, said in character "What kind of dwarven warrior are you to rest when our enemies are at our heels." He didn't persist and just moved on. Interestingly, he played his character pretty well otherwise. He is a fighter with the protection fighting style and quite a few times he positioned himself just so he could defend another player. At one point he was down to a quarter of his hit points and when another player went to heal him he said, "Don't, the monster is almost dead, I can hold out for another round." I was pleasantly surprised as EVERYTHING up to this point forecast him being a problem.
One player remarked that he looked like he had his "tail between his legs." I think that the combination of the indisputable logic of my co-DM coupled with the knowledge that we meant business resulted in a "come to Jesus" attitude. I don't think we are out of the woods yet, now we have to embrace him and let him know that we like him so much better this way: reward good behavior. I am cautiously optimistic.
Also, his wife played well, enjoyed herself and did not get dragged into this mess. I am especially grateful to the people who suggested we leave her out of the equation. It's not her job to manage her husband. He is an adult after all. A thousand thanks to everyone who gave me their help and feedback. I will continue to provide updates as I think this could be a good reference for other DMs dealing with problem players.
Edit: I almost didn't mention this because I don't want to sound arrogant or manipulative and it is not the reason that I did these things but when his wife was sick I made her a gallon of chicken soup, and my chicken soup is legit awesome. i also cooked the whole table a nice meal before the session (a tradition in our group). It's pretty hard to get angry at someone who is feeding you, just sayin' ;)
Edit:
This is the final update. I am pleased to say that the player has made a complete 180. We just had another session and he was great. I am really kind of floored by how well he has adapted to the table dynamics and roleplaying. He may be as much of a natural as his wife in fact.
In one particularly tough encounter, where the PCs were taking a lot of damage, he had the brilliant idea to use his big 20 strength to brace the door and hold back half of the reinforcements streaming through. He stood in a blade barrier that the bard had thrown up for a round and he may have turned the fight by himself. He also had a great roleplaying moment where he, a lawful evil character, was stealing stone beads from dwarven tombs because I said that they would be worth about a GP each and he and the other dwarven character in the group, Lawful Good, got into a fistfight. It was great fun. He later asked if it was ok that he did that and I told him honestly that it was great!
Thanks again for all the help. I hope that someone else finds this thread as useful as I have.
Warm Regards,
Phazzle
Boot him out and be done with it. You've tried every reasonable approach. Tell his wife that you are sorry, and will miss her, but if she comes she must leave him behind. No one player should be allowed to spoil the fun for everyone else.
<Insert clever signature here>
You truly do seem to have a problem player. If possible a side chat with he and the wife, if you and she agree, might do some good. A lot of the actions he's taking remind me of mmo tactics to level up and stuff. Might be he still needs a better understanding of it and/or a walk away from it. His style is NOT helping anyone at the table and ruining the game for the others. It could well be a complete misunderstanding of what D&D is, but the churlish behavior (slamming things down a like a toddler) is way out of line, for any table.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
If I am being completely fair, I am pretty sure he did not mean to break his figurine. When the he announced that he was taking on the flameskull again the rogue player ducked behind a corner and said "you're on your own" and problem player said "no, you're right here with me." He did seem remorseful, but then again he wasn't pulling $40 out of his wallet to replace the broken figurine.
Edit: it was nicely painted as well.
Talk to his wife, if she is giving him daggers and not happy then she may have already had a serious talk with him. If she has then the problem may be resolved and you may find she is coming on her own anyway, explain to her that he is ruining the game and ask her what the neat way is to approach it.
Yeah, if it were me I would have killed him. I guess it’s hard to get angry if the guy whom he wronged took it in stride, but he is a hell of a lot nicer than me.
edit: this is op. Accidentally didn’t log in.
Boot him.
It’s always scary having to reprimand or kick a player, but a big part of the game is keeping the whole table happy, and respecting the fun of the rest of the party and his wife especially may actually mean suggesting that this campaign may not suit his style of play.
Kill his character. Next time have the bandits or flameskull kill him.
The kill his character approach really almost never works, you can’t use an in game option to handle an out of game problem. If you have concerns about talking to him then wrote down what you wan to say, donut away from the table and talk to him and his wife seperetly.
It seems to me that he either doesn’t understand what the game is and thinks it’s all just a joke or, is possibly aggressively taking it out on his wife that she wants to have run away from him. There might be some bigger isssues here and it isn’t your place to deal with them. Talk to the 2 of them, ideally her first, have that session 0 that you possibly should have had anyway with them and talk about table etiquette, the rules of the game, how he is hogging the game time and needs to share more.
Also talk to him about if this character is actually what he wants to play, you said you built him a fighter but he might feel like the control of what he wanted his character to be has been taken away. Maybe he doesn’t want to be the guy who just hits things.
Honestly I think that this is the best response to his in-game antics of wanting to do things his own way and to hell with everyone else. He gets in a fight on his own, that you tell him will kill him - have it kill him. Make him spend some time not playing whilst he makes his new character, and then explain to him that he can't just spawn mid-dungeon, that he has to actually be introduced to the party. After doing this twice, he will not want to be running solo any more, and should start to realise that his actions have consequences.
For his out-of-game actions, he also needs to learn that the real world has consequences. Ask him if he has offered to replace the custom mini, and explain that it was expensive and took a lot of time to paint. If he refuses, explain that you can't have people at the table who will break other peoples things without offering to replace them. It might be he thinks it's a toy and only worth pennies, if he's that ignorant of the gaming world.
When he's talking over people, put him in his place. Tell him he's not talking now, and that he needs to shut up. tell him he'll get his chance to speak, but he needs to remember that the only person here for his entertainment is the DM, everyone else is just as important in the game as he is.
If you do have a conversation with him, don't involve his wife. He's old enough to get married, he's old enough to deal with his problems himself. Involving the wife will go one of two ways - the wife agrees with you, and he feels like she is conspiring against him. Or the wife backs him up and asks you for another chance for him, putting you in an awkward position. Talk to him, alone. Tell him you appreciate his enthusiasm but he needs to reign in the over-talking, work as part of a group not a lone wolf, and pay for the damage he's done to the miniature.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Thanks to everyone for your feedback. I still haven’t decided what to do but I am leaning toward simply booting him. I can call the wife, explain the situation, offer her a spot at the table but tell her that her husband is a no go. I can also offer to deliver the news to him myself, I don’t want to look cowardly.
This might cause some fallout among players who are friends with him, but I will pay that cost. Input a lot of effort into running a good game, if you don’t want to play, that’s on you. You and dudebro can start your own game.
If I can vent for another second what is pushing me toward this decision is that he seems to be just incorrigible. This is not a problem of simply ignorance of the rules but one of social graces. You don’t come into a bunch of strangers’ thing and have the temerity to think that you Can dominate the table from the get. You should be humble, polite, and willing to learn.
This is a problem of social skills. That is not something that you canlesrn from a D&D rulebook.
I would always try and give someone an opportunity to learn, simply booting him with no option of him to apologize and try and be better is a very strong reaction. I like to think of it as any social situation, I have had people who have acted awfully out at a bar, or in a club, or at other events. We don’t cut them off and never speak to them again, we talk to them, try and explain that the behavior was unacceptable and why and give them a chance to be better. There may be clear reasons he is acting this way that are game related, it is your game and you are free to do as you think is best but I do think that DMs on here are sometimes far too quick to not try and get to the route cause if an issue and put it down simply to the player. There was a post a while back on here where a problem player was causing issues. Loads of DMs said to kick him, kill his character. The DM came back after a while and explained he had talked to the player, learnt there where issues that player was having with their character and so changes where made to subclass and back story and ever since then the player has been great.
Sometimes you have to boot someone, but sometimes you need to have that tough conversation first and find out the why. This may be a case of him not understanding the etiquette of the table, or the way the game should be played at your table. It might be that he isn’t enjoying the character you made for him, maybe he doesn’t want to be a fighter or totally gets that you gave him the simple hit things hard class, maybe he is looking for a beer and kill table, that isn’t your table but you can explain that to him and maybe suggest how he can find a group like that, or maybe he is a ****** in which case kick him. Unless you actually take the time to talk to him and try and resolve it you won’t know, throughout life I have had people in many situations who started out being an idiot become great firm friends after being called out on what they where doing and finding out there was a reason for it and they where not actually that person.
18 Wisdom post. TY.
My concern is that if I try to come to an understanding with him and fail, he is going to cost me sessions worth of planning and fun. I also must admit, I didn’t want to go there but he kind of scares me a little. He is aggressive, big, and in great shape and his body language seems to convey that he wants to he in control. For instance, he noticed I was standing for most of the session. I am a very active DM and it is easier to manage the board on my feet, so he started to stand about half way through the session. I am worried that if I say “sorry you can’t make an attack of opportunity you already used your reaction.” He will come back with “I’m gonna kick your ass!!”
I am not suggesting an ongoing thing with lots of chances, you talk to him and give him one session to improve. You explain to him it’s a game with rules and you are in charge of those rules. If he isn’t happy with that then he doesn’t have to play.
See this as a great experience for you as well, there will be times in your life you will have to try and deal with a situation like this and won’t have the ability to just kick them out or walk away, he isn’t going to hit you, remember his friends are there at the table and they are your friends so it won’t happen but he might actually get it and become a good valid member of your group.
Sure. Will take all that into consideration. Thanks.
This is all excellent advice. Especially the part about there being other issues there that are out of my control and are frankly none of my business. They are the kind of couple that bickers and fights in public and makes everyone uncomfortable.
Right. The thing is, D&D isn’t just your average social gathering. There is a certain formality to it that everyone needs to understand. Think of a business meeting, where everyone has their chance to speak in turn and isn’t interrupted and where chaos and off topic chatter isn’t tolerated.
That said, the whole point is to have a good time but that formality needs to be respected.
Than you all again for the advice. Here is an update on the situation:
I invited all my regular players to a group chat and simply asked "Has anyone had any fun the past two sessions?" Their answers ranged from "No way." to "Yes, but..." We are all basically in agreement that either this dude has to shape up and decide to share the spotlight, not be so aggressive, and stop making logically indefensible decisions or he is gone. I had already been planning on a new session zero just to level characters up and get a pulse on the game. It really should have happened when the two new players joined.
As of right now my plan is this:
1) I am going to have the next session at my home instead of one of my player's homes. This way if I need to kick someone out I will be in my own house and there will be no disagreement.
2) I am going to have one of my players who has a good relationship with his wife talk to her about the state of the campaign while my co-DM and I (we switch back and forth between dungeon levels in a megadungeon) will take him aside and gently explain that his playstyle and attitude are causing a disruption, we are going to set some new ground rules at a new session zero, and if he doesn't follow those rules then we may have to boot him and possibly his wife. I also learned that he did not offer to pay for my other player's figurine. I will suggest that he do so, even if he refuses I feel that he is obliged to offer.
3) During session zero I will lay out a set of ground rules and get buy in as well as gather the players' feedback. I will touch on the following rules that apply directly to him:
a) Don't hog the spotlight and be quiet during others turns. This is a collaborative experience, everyone will get time in the spotlight, be respectful and give others their time.
b) If you want to challenge a ruling, please have a rule ready to justify the ruling (this is big at our table, we are rules lawyers and it is part of the fun of the game for us). Do not appeal to the laws of physics or "common sense" this is a fantasy game with rules. In real life you can trip and break your neck, in this world you can fall 100 feet and still survive. If you want to challenge a ruling, bone up.
One of my players, the one who invited them, offered to break the news to them if he does not shape up. I will not put her through this. If he acts like an ass for one more session then I am going to boot him and I will be more than happy to break the news to him, if anything I am maybe a bit too eager. If he does anything egregious at the table like calling people names or threatening someone then he is gone then and there. It's my house and I won't tolerate it. I hope it doesn't come to that, but with this guy I plan on being ready for anything.
Hmm. This is a very interesting situation. I would recommend you do the following.
I think you have a good plan. Now, just be prepared to follow through with it if he does not change his ways (which unfortunately sounds likely). Don't put up with this kind of stuff. Everyone at the table deserves better. It's a shame his wife might end up deprived of the chance to play.