Question for you all. I am a first time DM and have a group that doesn’t have anyone with the ability to identify magic items. I’m following the Dragon Of Icespire Peeks so they are located in the mining town of Phandallin which has very few townsfolk so no real magic dealer that could identify for them.
How would you go about handling a situation like this?
It's your game so your call, but in all the games I play (and run) that won't work. My groups tend to agree, a nap with a magical trinket shouldn't reveal it's details. Identify is a spell, with a cost and IMO should be used. <<EDIT HERE>> What is quoted IS from the DMG however, the ruling I list is a table rule only.
Now for your situation, a little antique dealer in town would be the best answer. Maybe an old Gnome, retired from adventuring to a quiet little corner of the world. For a small fee (or task) he would identify anything magical the group comes across. That tends to be how I handle things for the group, if nobody has the spell. Someone nearby, with a reasonable reason as for having the ability, is made known to them, so they can use his or her skills.
It's your game so your call, but in all the games I play (and run) that won't work. My groups tend to agree, a nap with a magical trinket shouldn't reveal it's details. Identify is a spell, with a cost and IMO should be used.
Now for your situation, a little antique dealer in town would be the best answer. Maybe an old Gnome, retired from adventuring to a quiet little corner of the world. For a small fee (or task) he would identify anything magical the group comes across. That tends to be how I handle things for the group, if nobody has the spell. Someone nearby, with a reasonable reason as for having the ability, is made known to them, so they can use his or her skills.
I actually kind of like the sound of that. Thank you for the suggestion.
It's your game so your call, but in all the games I play (and run) that won't work. My groups tend to agree, a nap with a magical trinket shouldn't reveal it's details.
My group also agrees with this... we call it "Sleeping with a magic item under your pillow," and no, we don't allow it either. Though as you point out, it is RAW.
But yes in every starter town you should have at least one NPC who can identify magic items, for a nominal fee or maybe for a small mini-quest or just as a kindness to the party. Even if the magic-user has Identify, a level 1 character probably won't have access to the 100 gp pearl required as a component. It may take a level or two of adventuring, and during that time they may need help ID'ing stuff.
You can, of course, go with the "nap with the item under the pillow" method if you really want to, but I agree with Falwith that it is super immersion-breaking. And also completely unnecessary given all the possible options there are for ID'ing magic items (including the time-honored "trial and error" method).
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Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Actually, you only need a short rest to identify a magical item, as per p.136 of the DMG. The character must be in physical contact with the item for the hour. A potion can be identified by just taking a little taste of it. It's basically a rule so that players aren't constantly required to pay to identify items (including those that they have no interest in using), especially if there is nobody in the party who could ever learn the spell. It's also not much fun if you're the party Identifier, and you're constantly having to use spell slots to check out every item that you come across.
However, to keep identify relevant, my rule on this is that this only reveals beneficial properties and only the Identify spell reveals any Cursed properties. This is a good way of keeping PCs on their toes if they're lazy about getting items identified when they have the option of identifying items.
In my game, an item can be identified by trial and error. For example, putting a ring on and trying to walk on water or jump or run fast. This doesn't, of course, work for all items.
Identify is a ritual spell, so any first level wizard would be available to cast it for a small fee. I don't think there would be a wizard in Phandelin, after all the PCs are supposed to be the most powerful characters around. If there is a wizard there, why haven't they dealth with the local troubles?
Leilon is a couple of days away. With a population of 3,000, there's probably a wizard there. Since it is a trade city, scrolls of identify are probably also available (usable by bards, wizards, artificers, knowledge clerics, forge clerics, eldritch knights, arcane tricksters).
However, In the OP's case the players have chosen not to have any way of identifying. As a GM I wouldn't put someone in town who can, because that would invalidate the choice the players made. Choices should have meaningful consequences.
If there is someone in town who can identify items, they should start every interaction with "Hello, my friend. Stay awhile and listen." :-)
However, In the OP's case the players have chosen not to have any way of identifying. As a GM I wouldn't put someone in town who can, because that would invalidate the choice the players made. Choices should have meaningful consequences.
I agree, if the players/DM are on the same page as to how magic items work in this game. I would be annoyed if we found out after picking classes/spells that we weren't using RAW and even more so if the DM had decided there were no NPCs to do it...
Maybe not in small villages but in every town there is somebody who can Identify items. The sleeping with items thing doesn't make sense to me. There are many times in which you can tell the item is magical, but for details it requires the spell. Otherwise it cheapens the experience for the player that picked the spell and shelled out the cash to cast it.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Actually, you only need a short rest to identify a magical item, as per p.136 of the DMG. The character must be in physical contact with the item for the hour. A potion can be identified by just taking a little taste of it. It's basically a rule so that players aren't constantly required to pay to identify items (including those that they have no interest in using), especially if there is nobody in the party who could ever learn the spell. It's also not much fun if you're the party Identifier, and you're constantly having to use spell slots to check out every item that you come across.
However, to keep identify relevant, my rule on this is that this only reveals beneficial properties and only the Identify spell reveals any Cursed properties. This is a good way of keeping PCs on their toes if they're lazy about getting items identified when they have the option of identifying items.
Is that a table rule since Identify does not reveal if an item is cursed based on the information provided in the DMG?
For identifying items I have a magic shop called the "Genie's Lantern" which can be found in most cities and they operate to buy/sell and identify magical items.
In my own low magic setting, I don't really mind the "sleep with it under your pillow" thing. If they get an item, I think it's fun to be able to spend just an hour and find out how to use it. I consider Identify mostly just a time saver, for people who really want to use it fast. If I remember it right, one of the reasons for the spell in the first place was to Identify cursed items before you got hit with the curse, and the problem with that was that you could set off the curse by casting the spell, so it was risky.
So sleep with it under the pillow, takes an hour, you only find out beneficial effects, and if it's cursed and you use it, boom.
Use Identify, you can find out all about the thing, including if it's cursed. I won't bother with the part about it being risky. Someone wants to pay a spell slot, that's enough.
Use Legend Lore, you find out all the things and more besides. You get to pick up details of the item's backstory that I can use as plot hooks later on if I like.
Identify, (and Legend Lore) is a remnant of earlier editions. I think it's good to give them a little boost to keep them as reasonably useful. There really isn't anything remotely like "The Genie's Lantern" in my game. Few magic items other than consumables are for sale anywhere outside of invitation only auctions in major cities.
Actually, you only need a short rest to identify a magical item, as per p.136 of the DMG. The character must be in physical contact with the item for the hour. A potion can be identified by just taking a little taste of it. It's basically a rule so that players aren't constantly required to pay to identify items (including those that they have no interest in using), especially if there is nobody in the party who could ever learn the spell. It's also not much fun if you're the party Identifier, and you're constantly having to use spell slots to check out every item that you come across.
However, to keep identify relevant, my rule on this is that this only reveals beneficial properties and only the Identify spell reveals any Cursed properties. This is a good way of keeping PCs on their toes if they're lazy about getting items identified when they have the option of identifying items.
Identify actually doesn't reveal Curses on items unless actually stated in the item's description.
Actually, you only need a short rest to identify a magical item, as per p.136 of the DMG. The character must be in physical contact with the item for the hour. A potion can be identified by just taking a little taste of it. It's basically a rule so that players aren't constantly required to pay to identify items (including those that they have no interest in using), especially if there is nobody in the party who could ever learn the spell. It's also not much fun if you're the party Identifier, and you're constantly having to use spell slots to check out every item that you come across.
However, to keep identify relevant, my rule on this is that this only reveals beneficial properties and only the Identify spell reveals any Cursed properties. This is a good way of keeping PCs on their toes if they're lazy about getting items identified when they have the option of identifying items.
Identify actually doesn't reveal Curses on items unless actually stated in the item's description.
The reason I play it this way is that I've never seen a player less happy than when one was afflicted with a cursed item that they didn't have the capability to remove. If there's no possibility of working out that it's cursed, it's a badly designed item. All negative character impacts should be avoidable through player choice. Putting an undetectable curse on an item that appears to be a Longsword +3 is basically railroading them into taking on a curse. Alternatively, characters have to fear that every item they put on/attune to is cursed making the things that happen to them into a lottery over which they have no say.
It's really strange that this isn't mentioned in the spell description, since this is really what the spell is for. The spell specifically states:
If it is a magic item or some other magic-imbued object, you learn its properties and how to use them, whether it requires attunement to use, and how many charges it has, if any. You learn whether any spells are affecting the item and what they are.
This is highly misleading to players, most of whom won't have read the DMG and therefore will expect the spell to operate differently.
I homebrew this slightly differently. So if there is no one around to identify a magic item but someone is proficient in Arcana I let them make an intelligence roll after spending a short rest with the item, Flat DC is 10 with modifiers based on the rarity ( less rare lowers the DC, more rare raises it) and if this is the first or second attempt to identify it, if the second they get advantage on the roll.
If a player has identify then that doesn't automatically mean they identify everything about an item either, usually they do but, sometimes if the item is something they will never have had any contact with previously, I force the same arcana check with the same rules as above.
All of my campaigns have a little shop called McFattypockets' Oddities. The proprietor is a Gnome by the name of Malambus McFattypockets. He is more than happy to identify items for potential or returning customers, often in return for small favors. Given that he is a Great Old One Warlock with Cthulu as his patron sometimes those small favors lead the party into some chaotic side quests.
In my game, an item can be identified by trial and error. For example, putting a ring on and trying to walk on water or jump or run fast. This doesn't, of course, work for all items.
Identify is a ritual spell, so any first level wizard would be available to cast it for a small fee. I don't think there would be a wizard in Phandelin, after all the PCs are supposed to be the most powerful characters around. If there is a wizard there, why haven't they dealth with the local troubles?
Leilon is a couple of days away. With a population of 3,000, there's probably a wizard there. Since it is a trade city, scrolls of identify are probably also available (usable by bards, wizards, artificers, knowledge clerics, forge clerics, eldritch knights, arcane tricksters).
However, In the OP's case the players have chosen not to have any way of identifying. As a GM I wouldn't put someone in town who can, because that would invalidate the choice the players made. Choices should have meaningful consequences.
If there is someone in town who can identify items, they should start every interaction with "Hello, my friend. Stay awhile and listen." :-)
If you are going to continue with the dragon books, don't go to Leilon, as later in the books you go there and it's being rebuilt and isn't as described above
Actually, you only need a short rest to identify a magical item, as per p.136 of the DMG. The character must be in physical contact with the item for the hour. A potion can be identified by just taking a little taste of it. It's basically a rule so that players aren't constantly required to pay to identify items (including those that they have no interest in using), especially if there is nobody in the party who could ever learn the spell. It's also not much fun if you're the party Identifier, and you're constantly having to use spell slots to check out every item that you come across.
However, to keep identify relevant, my rule on this is that this only reveals beneficial properties and only the Identify spell reveals any Cursed properties. This is a good way of keeping PCs on their toes if they're lazy about getting items identified when they have the option of identifying items.
Identify actually doesn't reveal Curses on items unless actually stated in the item's description.
The reason I play it this way is that I've never seen a player less happy than when one was afflicted with a cursed item that they didn't have the capability to remove. If there's no possibility of working out that it's cursed, it's a badly designed item. All negative character impacts should be avoidable through player choice. Putting an undetectable curse on an item that appears to be a Longsword +3 is basically railroading them into taking on a curse. Alternatively, characters have to fear that every item they put on/attune to is cursed making the things that happen to them into a lottery over which they have no say.
It's really strange that this isn't mentioned in the spell description, since this is really what the spell is for. The spell specifically states:
If it is a magic item or some other magic-imbued object, you learn its properties and how to use them, whether it requires attunement to use, and how many charges it has, if any. You learn whether any spells are affecting the item and what they are.
This is highly misleading to players, most of whom won't have read the DMG and therefore will expect the spell to operate differently.
What's the point of having cursed items at all if takes a 1st level spell to circumvent?
I mean, you do you; I'm not saying you're wrong. Just RAW, Identify doesn't detect curses unless the item states it does.
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Question for you all. I am a first time DM and have a group that doesn’t have anyone with the ability to identify magic items. I’m following the Dragon Of Icespire Peeks so they are located in the mining town of Phandallin which has very few townsfolk so no real magic dealer that could identify for them.
How would you go about handling a situation like this?
The dmg says that anyone can determine an item's magic by spending a long rest with it.So you have to do absolutely nothing.
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Ohh thank you for that, I don’t know how I missed it. Much appreciated.
It's your game so your call, but in all the games I play (and run) that won't work. My groups tend to agree, a nap with a magical trinket shouldn't reveal it's details. Identify is a spell, with a cost and IMO should be used. <<EDIT HERE>> What is quoted IS from the DMG however, the ruling I list is a table rule only.
Now for your situation, a little antique dealer in town would be the best answer. Maybe an old Gnome, retired from adventuring to a quiet little corner of the world. For a small fee (or task) he would identify anything magical the group comes across. That tends to be how I handle things for the group, if nobody has the spell. Someone nearby, with a reasonable reason as for having the ability, is made known to them, so they can use his or her skills.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
I actually kind of like the sound of that. Thank you for the suggestion.
My group also agrees with this... we call it "Sleeping with a magic item under your pillow," and no, we don't allow it either. Though as you point out, it is RAW.
But yes in every starter town you should have at least one NPC who can identify magic items, for a nominal fee or maybe for a small mini-quest or just as a kindness to the party. Even if the magic-user has Identify, a level 1 character probably won't have access to the 100 gp pearl required as a component. It may take a level or two of adventuring, and during that time they may need help ID'ing stuff.
You can, of course, go with the "nap with the item under the pillow" method if you really want to, but I agree with Falwith that it is super immersion-breaking. And also completely unnecessary given all the possible options there are for ID'ing magic items (including the time-honored "trial and error" method).
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Actually, you only need a short rest to identify a magical item, as per p.136 of the DMG. The character must be in physical contact with the item for the hour. A potion can be identified by just taking a little taste of it. It's basically a rule so that players aren't constantly required to pay to identify items (including those that they have no interest in using), especially if there is nobody in the party who could ever learn the spell. It's also not much fun if you're the party Identifier, and you're constantly having to use spell slots to check out every item that you come across.
However, to keep identify relevant, my rule on this is that this only reveals beneficial properties and only the Identify spell reveals any Cursed properties. This is a good way of keeping PCs on their toes if they're lazy about getting items identified when they have the option of identifying items.
In my game, an item can be identified by trial and error. For example, putting a ring on and trying to walk on water or jump or run fast. This doesn't, of course, work for all items.
Identify is a ritual spell, so any first level wizard would be available to cast it for a small fee. I don't think there would be a wizard in Phandelin, after all the PCs are supposed to be the most powerful characters around. If there is a wizard there, why haven't they dealth with the local troubles?
Leilon is a couple of days away. With a population of 3,000, there's probably a wizard there. Since it is a trade city, scrolls of identify are probably also available (usable by bards, wizards, artificers, knowledge clerics, forge clerics, eldritch knights, arcane tricksters).
However, In the OP's case the players have chosen not to have any way of identifying. As a GM I wouldn't put someone in town who can, because that would invalidate the choice the players made. Choices should have meaningful consequences.
If there is someone in town who can identify items, they should start every interaction with "Hello, my friend. Stay awhile and listen." :-)
+1 to Sanvael. That's how I do things.
<Insert clever signature here>
I agree, if the players/DM are on the same page as to how magic items work in this game. I would be annoyed if we found out after picking classes/spells that we weren't using RAW and even more so if the DM had decided there were no NPCs to do it...
Maybe not in small villages but in every town there is somebody who can Identify items. The sleeping with items thing doesn't make sense to me. There are many times in which you can tell the item is magical, but for details it requires the spell. Otherwise it cheapens the experience for the player that picked the spell and shelled out the cash to cast it.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Is that a table rule since Identify does not reveal if an item is cursed based on the information provided in the DMG?
For identifying items I have a magic shop called the "Genie's Lantern" which can be found in most cities and they operate to buy/sell and identify magical items.
In my own low magic setting, I don't really mind the "sleep with it under your pillow" thing. If they get an item, I think it's fun to be able to spend just an hour and find out how to use it. I consider Identify mostly just a time saver, for people who really want to use it fast. If I remember it right, one of the reasons for the spell in the first place was to Identify cursed items before you got hit with the curse, and the problem with that was that you could set off the curse by casting the spell, so it was risky.
So sleep with it under the pillow, takes an hour, you only find out beneficial effects, and if it's cursed and you use it, boom.
Use Identify, you can find out all about the thing, including if it's cursed. I won't bother with the part about it being risky. Someone wants to pay a spell slot, that's enough.
Use Legend Lore, you find out all the things and more besides. You get to pick up details of the item's backstory that I can use as plot hooks later on if I like.
Identify, (and Legend Lore) is a remnant of earlier editions. I think it's good to give them a little boost to keep them as reasonably useful. There really isn't anything remotely like "The Genie's Lantern" in my game. Few magic items other than consumables are for sale anywhere outside of invitation only auctions in major cities.
<Insert clever signature here>
Identify actually doesn't reveal Curses on items unless actually stated in the item's description.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/does-identify-reveal-a-curse/
The reason I play it this way is that I've never seen a player less happy than when one was afflicted with a cursed item that they didn't have the capability to remove. If there's no possibility of working out that it's cursed, it's a badly designed item. All negative character impacts should be avoidable through player choice. Putting an undetectable curse on an item that appears to be a Longsword +3 is basically railroading them into taking on a curse. Alternatively, characters have to fear that every item they put on/attune to is cursed making the things that happen to them into a lottery over which they have no say.
It's really strange that this isn't mentioned in the spell description, since this is really what the spell is for. The spell specifically states:
If it is a magic item or some other magic-imbued object, you learn its properties and how to use them, whether it requires attunement to use, and how many charges it has, if any. You learn whether any spells are affecting the item and what they are.
This is highly misleading to players, most of whom won't have read the DMG and therefore will expect the spell to operate differently.
I homebrew this slightly differently. So if there is no one around to identify a magic item but someone is proficient in Arcana I let them make an intelligence roll after spending a short rest with the item, Flat DC is 10 with modifiers based on the rarity ( less rare lowers the DC, more rare raises it) and if this is the first or second attempt to identify it, if the second they get advantage on the roll.
If a player has identify then that doesn't automatically mean they identify everything about an item either, usually they do but, sometimes if the item is something they will never have had any contact with previously, I force the same arcana check with the same rules as above.
All of my campaigns have a little shop called McFattypockets' Oddities. The proprietor is a Gnome by the name of Malambus McFattypockets. He is more than happy to identify items for potential or returning customers, often in return for small favors. Given that he is a Great Old One Warlock with Cthulu as his patron sometimes those small favors lead the party into some chaotic side quests.
If you are going to continue with the dragon books, don't go to Leilon, as later in the books you go there and it's being rebuilt and isn't as described above
What's the point of having cursed items at all if takes a 1st level spell to circumvent?
I mean, you do you; I'm not saying you're wrong. Just RAW, Identify doesn't detect curses unless the item states it does.