I would consider either putting a lower size limit on wild shape, or introducing bugzappers.
Funny, I have a homebrew druid circle (concept only so far, since the party hasn't had reason to run into any of them) in my homebrew world who specialize in spying and tiny bug forms
Which greatly increases the odds of places the PCs want to get into being protected by bugzappers.
I would consider either putting a lower size limit on wild shape, or introducing bugzappers.
Funny, I have a homebrew druid circle (concept only so far, since the party hasn't had reason to run into any of them) in my homebrew world who specialize in spying and tiny bug forms
Which greatly increases the odds of places the PCs want to get into being protected by bugzappers.
Not really, since there's no electricity
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Players absolutely hate when they come up with a fun, creative solution that guarantees success, and you snatch it away from them because it was *too* good an idea. That's not fun for anyone and you shouldn't put a ceiling on how successful the players can be. It's just kind of a mean thing to do.
(a) it's not a 'fun, creative solution', it's a boring and obvious solution that every druid comes up with instantly.
(b) adventures that don't have challenges aren't actually what player want. You should get a chance to use wild shape to sneak around and do interesting things, but it shouldn't be automatic success.
Has anyone claimed that it should be an automatic success?
As for no1. Yes, wildshape is a common solution to many problems for druids, just like hitting things is a common solution for fighters and barbarians, charmin/decieving is common for bards and rogues and fireball is to spell slingers. It's almost like the different class abilities correspond to different playstyles! That said, a good DM would complet sink a player's attempt at solving a problem in a way that isn't straight "by the book". What I wonder here is why the item in question was seemingly just lying around unguarded, in the open without any kinds of alarms or other security measures preventing people from stealing it. Why were there no other challenges, like navigating across the whole building, finding a way in and generally just making it there in time before the wildshape runs out? A human is about 30 times faster than an ant so it will take the ant quite a while to get in and out. How long will that wild shape last? What is the rest of the party doing meanwhile? Will they perhaps distract the guards or get into the chase themselves? There are many things that could happen that could challenge the players.
Players absolutely hate when they come up with a fun, creative solution that guarantees success, and you snatch it away from them because it was *too* good an idea. That's not fun for anyone and you shouldn't put a ceiling on how successful the players can be. It's just kind of a mean thing to do.
(a) it's not a 'fun, creative solution', it's a boring and obvious solution that every druid comes up with instantly.
(b) adventures that don't have challenges aren't actually what player want. You should get a chance to use wild shape to sneak around and do interesting things, but it shouldn't be automatic success.
(a) You are suggesting that a more fun and creative solution would be to not use the powers that their characters have and just run through it in a less efficient way because that's what the DM wants. Baffling.
(b) Then the DM needs to set actual challenges, not ones that are easily solvable with basic class abilities.
Using this solution is not the players' fault, though you seem to think that they did something wrong by using their class abilities in a sensible and logical way. The DM needs to set appropriate challenges for the party. If they forget something vital about a character abilities, e.g they put in a powerful disease and forget that the party paladin can cure everyone of disease almost at will, then that is the DM's fault. If they forget that every member of the party can fly and had put in a jumping puzzle and the players fly over it, that's not a player problem, it's a DM problem.
Powering down the druid's wildshape because the DM hasn't thought of it is a slippery slope. Next up, they have to limit the wizard's polymorph because it can do the same. After that, they charm a key NPC and just ask him to get it for them, so now Charm Person needs nerfing. Next they cast fly and invisibility on one target, who floats silently and invisibly through the hideout so doesn't need to make any stealth checks. Better nerf them too.
When players find ways of getting around problems don't take it away from them. -It's moving the goal post, and players can tell when you do it like this and it feels extremely lame. -Your games will feel a whole lot more dynamic if the players feel like there are other options than combat to solving problems. -Giving a moon druid something to do with their wild shape other than turn into a hp pool in combat feels good for the player.
If they same druid starts to try to abuse this then throw challenges at them like spiders, a mage with detect magic that notices a faint transmutation aura, a colony of actual ants that are hostile, a mini gelatinous cube that acts like an arcane roomba, etc. It can be like a scene from ant man instead of just saying the doors and windows and medieval weather stripping.
Most seem to be on the same track that I agree with, let the players use their skills in ways you don't expect. Someone said it was the given and always used go-to solution. If that was true, the DM would likely have been ready, so that argument flies out the window. If the player throws a curve ball like that, good on them. Now, as a DM, you can be a little more aware of potential shortcuts the class ability might offer and adjust accordingly. Everyone talking about nerfing the ability is really just showing jealousy, as someone had a more interesting idea than their own.
Embrace it and remember it. There will be more times coming up, no doubt, where one wild shape or another will/could be the sneaky shortcut answer. Just find a way to ensure there remains some challenge (spiders for the ant were a stroke of genius, really, as it makes perfect sense from all angles) the player needs to address, as opposed to a free stroll in and out without issue. From the sounds of it, you are going to have to be on top of your game, as this may be a sign of a group that looks for answers WELL outside the "box" most others use. RaW keeps a fair bit of it manageable, and your imagination and foresight can help cover the rest, to maintain a challenge, while encouraging (and maybe enjoying?) the oddball ideas your players come up with.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Players absolutely hate when they come up with a fun, creative solution that guarantees success, and you snatch it away from them because it was *too* good an idea. That's not fun for anyone and you shouldn't put a ceiling on how successful the players can be. It's just kind of a mean thing to do.
(a) it's not a 'fun, creative solution', it's a boring and obvious solution that every druid comes up with instantly.
(b) adventures that don't have challenges aren't actually what player want. You should get a chance to use wild shape to sneak around and do interesting things, but it shouldn't be automatic success.
Has anyone claimed that it should be an automatic success?
So I’m doing Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, there is a segment where the players are suppose to enter Gralhund Villa, and with the remix, go on a chase to get the stone of Galorr.
My player, a circle of moon Druid, turned into an ant, passed all stealth, and entered the villa, without the first check.
How do I combat this? It doesn’t make sense to do perception checks on the NPC’s, because it’s an ant, she turned into a human, took what she needed, and turned back to an ant and made it out.
It's unclear, but it doesn't seem like the OP did any Stealth or Perception checks.
Players absolutely hate when they come up with a fun, creative solution that guarantees success, and you snatch it away from them because it was *too* good an idea. That's not fun for anyone and you shouldn't put a ceiling on how successful the players can be. It's just kind of a mean thing to do.
(a) it's not a 'fun, creative solution', it's a boring and obvious solution that every druid comes up with instantly.
(b) adventures that don't have challenges aren't actually what player want. You should get a chance to use wild shape to sneak around and do interesting things, but it shouldn't be automatic success.
(a) You are suggesting that a more fun and creative solution would be to not use the powers that their characters have and just run through it in a less efficient way because that's what the DM wants. Baffling.
(b) Then the DM needs to set actual challenges, not ones that are easily solvable with basic class abilities.
It's a published adventure. The DM doesn't set the challenges.
(b) Then the DM needs to set actual challenges, not ones that are easily solvable with basic class abilities.
The door is in a published adventure, and I can't think of any published adventures that even give a thought to druid wildshaping into insects. So either all of the modules are poorly written, or the druid ability is poorly written.
There's actually an argument that you can't turn into anything with less than 1 hit point, which puts a lower end at around tarantula size.
I feel like players should be allowed to use their abilities. But, if the problem is it transforms with her, you're the DM, you can do what you want, so just say she can turn into an ant, just not transform the non-original (non-original meaning clothes, stuff like that) stuff with her. I don't remember wild shape saying you could do that. (but clothes should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be worn!!!!!) Then the other player gets to help more with the heist.
If someone else has thought of this and posted it here, I skipped a little bit of the comments, so sorry for repeating you, if that has happened.
I feel like players should be allowed to use their abilities. But, if the problem is it transforms with her, you're the DM, you can do what you want, so just say she can turn into an ant, just not transform the non-original (non-original meaning clothes, stuff like that) stuff with her. I don't remember wild shape saying you could do that. (but clothes should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be worn!!!!!) Then the other player gets to help more with the heist.
If someone else has thought of this and posted it here, I skipped a little bit of the comments, so sorry for repeating you, if that has happened.
You choose whether your equipment falls to the ground in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it.
RAW, they can merge the item they recovered into their ant form.
Players absolutely hate when they come up with a fun, creative solution that guarantees success, and you snatch it away from them because it was *too* good an idea. That's not fun for anyone and you shouldn't put a ceiling on how successful the players can be. It's just kind of a mean thing to do.
(a) it's not a 'fun, creative solution', it's a boring and obvious solution that every druid comes up with instantly.
(b) adventures that don't have challenges aren't actually what player want. You should get a chance to use wild shape to sneak around and do interesting things, but it shouldn't be automatic success.
(a) You are suggesting that a more fun and creative solution would be to not use the powers that their characters have and just run through it in a less efficient way because that's what the DM wants. Baffling.
(b) Then the DM needs to set actual challenges, not ones that are easily solvable with basic class abilities.
It's a published adventure. The DM doesn't set the challenges.
You can tweak published adventures if you think they require tweaking. The druid thing has probably never been addressed though, because nobody else seems to think it's a problem.
So, just to clarify... you made a houserule decision to allow a wildshape - gave them autosuccess on a check also as a DM ad-hoc decision, even though standard rules would require one, and now are unhappy with the decision YOU made and blame the player?
... What?
Wildshape isn't "change into anything" - you can change into a Beast with a CR of certain levels decided by your wildshape related class features. "Ant" is not a valid choice due to not being a beast with a CR of any kind. Not even a CR 0. No official statblock exists. This means you chose to allow this ant form as a houserule -- very common, of course, but ultimately a house-rule.
You made the decision to not bother with any stealth checks (or even deception - just because you look like a bug doesn't mean you act like one). So, again, your decisions.
Druids wildshaping into an innocuous form to avoid detection is perfectly common and normal. But it's still up to YOU to decide how effective this is depending on the situation, the adenture, etc.
Use stealth/deception. Use traps. Oh they turn back into a humanoid to grab the mcguffin? Great, now the pressure plate trap/alarm has been triggered. Or just put a guard in the room. Put the item in a glass case - druid smashes it, guards come in, rush over to the glass - now druidant must make a dex save to avoid the trampling boots!
-
There's a reason the smallest and most innocuous forms in the official monsters list are things like spiders and cats - because they're more noticeable than ants in restricted / high security spaces. If you allowed a more innocuous form - that's on you. You gave them a more powerful version of their wildeshape. Live with it and adjust accordingly.
Now, personally, I'd just commend the creativity, I'd allow it but with checks and move the feck on or make it more memorable. Make stealth check, fail, oh no the bug-loving guard comes over with a dopey smile and tries to pick you up, gently. -- roll off (probs dex checks) -- he picks you up! As you run about his hand he smiles and cooly says things like "hi little guy, what are you doing in here?" and proceeds to walk outside and lay you in some grass. Or something (haven't read the adventure - ya get the idea).
And if you succeeded and this wasn't "big win everything mcguffin"? You succeed. Enjoy the victory. Won't work everytime but lets enjoy some wins for creative thinking!
This isn't really anything a rogue with good rolls,or a wizard with good spells couldn't also do. It's not a big deal. At the end of the day, did the group have fun? If yes - what's the problem?
Don't forget, you don't have to stick to the adventure. It's a guide, not a railroad. If the druid is off doing a solo thing, roll for an encounter for the rest of the group - a wandering guard? Just a commoner being nosy? A couple rats knock something over, making noise and draw attention?
Don't punish the player for YOUR choices. Find ways to go off book and improv things. Embrace the "yes, and".
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You could always roll randomly to see if someone accidentally steps on the ant. Or better yet, have the player do it. Have them roll percentile, you can set whatever percent you want: 5%, 15%, 33%.
Players absolutely hate when they come up with a fun, creative solution that guarantees success, and you snatch it away from them because it was *too* good an idea. That's not fun for anyone and you shouldn't put a ceiling on how successful the players can be. It's just kind of a mean thing to do.
(a) it's not a 'fun, creative solution', it's a boring and obvious solution that every druid comes up with instantly.
(b) adventures that don't have challenges aren't actually what player want. You should get a chance to use wild shape to sneak around and do interesting things, but it shouldn't be automatic success.
Has anyone claimed that it should be an automatic success?
So I’m doing Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, there is a segment where the players are suppose to enter Gralhund Villa, and with the remix, go on a chase to get the stone of Galorr.
My player, a circle of moon Druid, turned into an ant, passed all stealth, and entered the villa, without the first check.
How do I combat this? It doesn’t make sense to do perception checks on the NPC’s, because it’s an ant, she turned into a human, took what she needed, and turned back to an ant and made it out.
It's unclear, but it doesn't seem like the OP did any Stealth or Perception checks.
So the only one claiming that it should be an auto-success is the OP and Panta? Gotcha.
Players absolutely hate when they come up with a fun, creative solution that guarantees success, and you snatch it away from them because it was *too* good an idea. That's not fun for anyone and you shouldn't put a ceiling on how successful the players can be. It's just kind of a mean thing to do.
(a) it's not a 'fun, creative solution', it's a boring and obvious solution that every druid comes up with instantly.
(b) adventures that don't have challenges aren't actually what player want. You should get a chance to use wild shape to sneak around and do interesting things, but it shouldn't be automatic success.
Has anyone claimed that it should be an automatic success?
So I’m doing Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, there is a segment where the players are suppose to enter Gralhund Villa, and with the remix, go on a chase to get the stone of Galorr.
My player, a circle of moon Druid, turned into an ant, passed all stealth, and entered the villa, without the first check.
How do I combat this? It doesn’t make sense to do perception checks on the NPC’s, because it’s an ant, she turned into a human, took what she needed, and turned back to an ant and made it out.
It's unclear, but it doesn't seem like the OP did any Stealth or Perception checks.
So the only one claiming that it should be an auto-success is the OP and Panta? Gotcha.
In fairness, if we have to do Perception checks to try to spot suspicious ants, then everyone should be making constant perception checks non-stop at all possible moments of the day to notice flies, ants, and other small creatures. I actually support the "there is no reason to make a perception check to spot an ant" reasoning, even if it is what's causing the DM's issue. Neither do I think that an ant would necessitate Stealth checks, since it's effectively silent and too small for a human to notice.
That spider lurking in the hallway, however - now that's going to require a Perception check.
To solve all this, I have created the stat block for the ant:
Has Tremorsense to 1 foot, and is completely blind beyond this range
Is automatically hit by any attack from within 5 feet
That sounds pretty fair to me. So yes, you can become an ant, but good luck navigating your way around a building you don't know. Just walking down the corridor is going to take you 30 minutes of your Wildshape time, and if you're going past the corridor you need, if it's more than 1 foot away from you then you won't see it.
I can't believe we got this far in the thread and nobody actually considered the massive limitations are of trying to live as an ant! Sure, you're tiny, but you're also completely useless at everything, including finding your way around and seeing anything.
Definitely agreeing with Sanvael that an Ant needs to be treated as an ant, and that means slow, nearly blind, and so forth.
If your players are constantly turning into bugs ot solve things, make some encounters for them to face whilst small. Don't just let them handwave a "I move in, un-wildshape, grab the thing, and then wildshape and escape". There's a lot of distance to cover for a bug, and as Sanvael said, with only an hour of wildshape, they might not make it in and out without changing back!
Also, spiders and other things can make for good obstacles for a bug-player to deal with. As could a homebrew pet with truesight, for example, who starts growling and following them around, whilst the owner is chasing after them to try and stop them, not knowing what is going on! Or perhaps the owner knows its pet does that, and immediately takes precautions against it, maybe talking to the bug and saying "I know what you are, so why not come out and have a chat?".
Don't make it easy for them - the obstacles they set out to avoid have been successfully avoided, but now there's gaps in the floorboards, spiders, people walking, thick carpets, spilled drinks, pets, and so forth to deal with!
Players absolutely hate when they come up with a fun, creative solution that guarantees success, and you snatch it away from them because it was *too* good an idea. That's not fun for anyone and you shouldn't put a ceiling on how successful the players can be. It's just kind of a mean thing to do.
(a) it's not a 'fun, creative solution', it's a boring and obvious solution that every druid comes up with instantly.
(b) adventures that don't have challenges aren't actually what player want. You should get a chance to use wild shape to sneak around and do interesting things, but it shouldn't be automatic success.
Has anyone claimed that it should be an automatic success?
So I’m doing Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, there is a segment where the players are suppose to enter Gralhund Villa, and with the remix, go on a chase to get the stone of Galorr.
My player, a circle of moon Druid, turned into an ant, passed all stealth, and entered the villa, without the first check.
How do I combat this? It doesn’t make sense to do perception checks on the NPC’s, because it’s an ant, she turned into a human, took what she needed, and turned back to an ant and made it out.
It's unclear, but it doesn't seem like the OP did any Stealth or Perception checks.
So the only one claiming that it should be an auto-success is the OP and Panta? Gotcha.
In fairness, if we have to do Perception checks to try to spot suspicious ants, then everyone should be making constant perception checks non-stop at all possible moments of the day to notice flies, ants, and other small creatures. I actually support the "there is no reason to make a perception check to spot an ant" reasoning, even if it is what's causing the DM's issue. Neither do I think that an ant would necessitate Stealth checks, since it's effectively silent and too small for a human to notice.
That spider lurking in the hallway, however - now that's going to require a Perception check.
To solve all this, I have created the stat block for the ant:
Has Tremorsense to 1 foot, and is completely blind beyond this range
Is automatically hit by any attack from within 5 feet
That sounds pretty fair to me. So yes, you can become an ant, but good luck navigating your way around a building you don't know. Just walking down the corridor is going to take you 30 minutes of your Wildshape time, and if you're going past the corridor you need, if it's more than 1 foot away from you then you won't see it.
I can't believe we got this far in the thread and nobody actually considered the massive limitations are of trying to live as an ant! Sure, you're tiny, but you're also completely useless at everything, including finding your way around and seeing anything.
OK, I'll stump for the ant's amazing olfactory capabilities here. I'd give it blindsense out to at least five feet
The slow foot speed is the biggest problem for sure though -- unless you picked a flying ant
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I could see a cat taking notice of a bug or spider. The cat pounces and the wildshape ends because the bug or spider drops to 0 HP. Now, after a surprised cat scream, the druid has surprise but is on his back prone, as a cat streaks off in some direction.
Or
The cat does not notice the bug or spider. The player crawls, slowly, slowly, to the table, and climbs the table leg, and around on top of the table to verify the item is there, but the table explodes when a Glyph of Warding goes off. The bug takes damage and drops to 0HP where the player lands on the ground, momentarily stunned and is prone. Roll initiative.
Or, if the DM wants to just be funny about it ...
The spider reaches the room and sees the table in front of him. He crawls to the opposite side of the table so he can transform back into himself. He ends wildshape and is prone with his arms and legs spread out. As he draws himself up to stand, he lets loose with some loud gas. Two of the fellows turn to look in your direction, and a third one takes a step in your direction ...
Now the third one may be seen as a "Richard Cranium" move against the players, but the DM could say, I thought you'd like that more than a Glyph of Warding. So ...
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Isn't move speed calculated by rounds? a round is typically 6 seconds?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the fastest ant in the world can move at like speeds of 25-30 inches per second, giving this ant a more likely movement speed of 10-15 feet per round. Plenty of time to work with wild shape time limits. Still, people argue the sight limitation would be a mechanic...Personally, I think we are getting too technical cause DM'S typically don't apply actual anatomical animal draw backs to other CR wildshapes.
I'd throw all that out the window for more flavorful RolePlay experience. When players get creative, its your que as a DM to also hype up your game and run with it on their level. As an ant in a dungeon/guarded castle there are plenty of other much more problematical obstacles that could prove hilarious, adventurous and even horrific.. These off the cuff encounters would make for a great story of how that one time my PC turned into an ant and stole the mcguffin from a heavily guarded keep.
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Which greatly increases the odds of places the PCs want to get into being protected by bugzappers.
Not really, since there's no electricity
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Has anyone claimed that it should be an automatic success?
As for no1. Yes, wildshape is a common solution to many problems for druids, just like hitting things is a common solution for fighters and barbarians, charmin/decieving is common for bards and rogues and fireball is to spell slingers. It's almost like the different class abilities correspond to different playstyles! That said, a good DM would complet sink a player's attempt at solving a problem in a way that isn't straight "by the book". What I wonder here is why the item in question was seemingly just lying around unguarded, in the open without any kinds of alarms or other security measures preventing people from stealing it. Why were there no other challenges, like navigating across the whole building, finding a way in and generally just making it there in time before the wildshape runs out? A human is about 30 times faster than an ant so it will take the ant quite a while to get in and out. How long will that wild shape last? What is the rest of the party doing meanwhile? Will they perhaps distract the guards or get into the chase themselves? There are many things that could happen that could challenge the players.
De-powering a player because the DM wants to force them to do encounters in a particular way is obviously not good for the players.
(a) You are suggesting that a more fun and creative solution would be to not use the powers that their characters have and just run through it in a less efficient way because that's what the DM wants. Baffling.
(b) Then the DM needs to set actual challenges, not ones that are easily solvable with basic class abilities.
Using this solution is not the players' fault, though you seem to think that they did something wrong by using their class abilities in a sensible and logical way. The DM needs to set appropriate challenges for the party. If they forget something vital about a character abilities, e.g they put in a powerful disease and forget that the party paladin can cure everyone of disease almost at will, then that is the DM's fault. If they forget that every member of the party can fly and had put in a jumping puzzle and the players fly over it, that's not a player problem, it's a DM problem.
Powering down the druid's wildshape because the DM hasn't thought of it is a slippery slope. Next up, they have to limit the wizard's polymorph because it can do the same. After that, they charm a key NPC and just ask him to get it for them, so now Charm Person needs nerfing. Next they cast fly and invisibility on one target, who floats silently and invisibly through the hideout so doesn't need to make any stealth checks. Better nerf them too.
When players find ways of getting around problems don't take it away from them.
-It's moving the goal post, and players can tell when you do it like this and it feels extremely lame.
-Your games will feel a whole lot more dynamic if the players feel like there are other options than combat to solving problems.
-Giving a moon druid something to do with their wild shape other than turn into a hp pool in combat feels good for the player.
If they same druid starts to try to abuse this then throw challenges at them like spiders, a mage with detect magic that notices a faint transmutation aura, a colony of actual ants that are hostile, a mini gelatinous cube that acts like an arcane roomba, etc. It can be like a scene from ant man instead of just saying the doors and windows and medieval weather stripping.
Most seem to be on the same track that I agree with, let the players use their skills in ways you don't expect. Someone said it was the given and always used go-to solution. If that was true, the DM would likely have been ready, so that argument flies out the window. If the player throws a curve ball like that, good on them. Now, as a DM, you can be a little more aware of potential shortcuts the class ability might offer and adjust accordingly. Everyone talking about nerfing the ability is really just showing jealousy, as someone had a more interesting idea than their own.
Embrace it and remember it. There will be more times coming up, no doubt, where one wild shape or another will/could be the sneaky shortcut answer. Just find a way to ensure there remains some challenge (spiders for the ant were a stroke of genius, really, as it makes perfect sense from all angles) the player needs to address, as opposed to a free stroll in and out without issue. From the sounds of it, you are going to have to be on top of your game, as this may be a sign of a group that looks for answers WELL outside the "box" most others use. RaW keeps a fair bit of it manageable, and your imagination and foresight can help cover the rest, to maintain a challenge, while encouraging (and maybe enjoying?) the oddball ideas your players come up with.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
It's unclear, but it doesn't seem like the OP did any Stealth or Perception checks.
It's a published adventure. The DM doesn't set the challenges.
The door is in a published adventure, and I can't think of any published adventures that even give a thought to druid wildshaping into insects. So either all of the modules are poorly written, or the druid ability is poorly written.
There's actually an argument that you can't turn into anything with less than 1 hit point, which puts a lower end at around tarantula size.
I feel like players should be allowed to use their abilities. But, if the problem is it transforms with her, you're the DM, you can do what you want, so just say she can turn into an ant, just not transform the non-original (non-original meaning clothes, stuff like that) stuff with her. I don't remember wild shape saying you could do that. (but clothes should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be worn!!!!!) Then the other player gets to help more with the heist.
If someone else has thought of this and posted it here, I skipped a little bit of the comments, so sorry for repeating you, if that has happened.
"Hero of the Heavens" (Title by Drummer)
RAW, they can merge the item they recovered into their ant form.
You can tweak published adventures if you think they require tweaking. The druid thing has probably never been addressed though, because nobody else seems to think it's a problem.
So, just to clarify... you made a houserule decision to allow a wildshape - gave them autosuccess on a check also as a DM ad-hoc decision, even though standard rules would require one, and now are unhappy with the decision YOU made and blame the player?
... What?
Wildshape isn't "change into anything" - you can change into a Beast with a CR of certain levels decided by your wildshape related class features. "Ant" is not a valid choice due to not being a beast with a CR of any kind. Not even a CR 0. No official statblock exists. This means you chose to allow this ant form as a houserule -- very common, of course, but ultimately a house-rule.
You made the decision to not bother with any stealth checks (or even deception - just because you look like a bug doesn't mean you act like one). So, again, your decisions.
Druids wildshaping into an innocuous form to avoid detection is perfectly common and normal. But it's still up to YOU to decide how effective this is depending on the situation, the adenture, etc.
Use stealth/deception. Use traps. Oh they turn back into a humanoid to grab the mcguffin? Great, now the pressure plate trap/alarm has been triggered. Or just put a guard in the room. Put the item in a glass case - druid smashes it, guards come in, rush over to the glass - now druidant must make a dex save to avoid the trampling boots!
-
There's a reason the smallest and most innocuous forms in the official monsters list are things like spiders and cats - because they're more noticeable than ants in restricted / high security spaces. If you allowed a more innocuous form - that's on you. You gave them a more powerful version of their wildeshape. Live with it and adjust accordingly.
Now, personally, I'd just commend the creativity, I'd allow it but with checks and move the feck on or make it more memorable. Make stealth check, fail, oh no the bug-loving guard comes over with a dopey smile and tries to pick you up, gently. -- roll off (probs dex checks) -- he picks you up! As you run about his hand he smiles and cooly says things like "hi little guy, what are you doing in here?" and proceeds to walk outside and lay you in some grass. Or something (haven't read the adventure - ya get the idea).
And if you succeeded and this wasn't "big win everything mcguffin"? You succeed. Enjoy the victory. Won't work everytime but lets enjoy some wins for creative thinking!
This isn't really anything a rogue with good rolls,or a wizard with good spells couldn't also do. It's not a big deal. At the end of the day, did the group have fun? If yes - what's the problem?
Don't forget, you don't have to stick to the adventure. It's a guide, not a railroad. If the druid is off doing a solo thing, roll for an encounter for the rest of the group - a wandering guard? Just a commoner being nosy? A couple rats knock something over, making noise and draw attention?
Don't punish the player for YOUR choices. Find ways to go off book and improv things. Embrace the "yes, and".
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Yeah, players do the darndest things sometimes.
You could always roll randomly to see if someone accidentally steps on the ant. Or better yet, have the player do it. Have them roll percentile, you can set whatever percent you want: 5%, 15%, 33%.
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So the only one claiming that it should be an auto-success is the OP and Panta? Gotcha.
In fairness, if we have to do Perception checks to try to spot suspicious ants, then everyone should be making constant perception checks non-stop at all possible moments of the day to notice flies, ants, and other small creatures. I actually support the "there is no reason to make a perception check to spot an ant" reasoning, even if it is what's causing the DM's issue. Neither do I think that an ant would necessitate Stealth checks, since it's effectively silent and too small for a human to notice.
That spider lurking in the hallway, however - now that's going to require a Perception check.
To solve all this, I have created the stat block for the ant:
Just One Ant - stat block
Note that the ant:
That sounds pretty fair to me. So yes, you can become an ant, but good luck navigating your way around a building you don't know. Just walking down the corridor is going to take you 30 minutes of your Wildshape time, and if you're going past the corridor you need, if it's more than 1 foot away from you then you won't see it.
I can't believe we got this far in the thread and nobody actually considered the massive limitations are of trying to live as an ant! Sure, you're tiny, but you're also completely useless at everything, including finding your way around and seeing anything.
Definitely agreeing with Sanvael that an Ant needs to be treated as an ant, and that means slow, nearly blind, and so forth.
If your players are constantly turning into bugs ot solve things, make some encounters for them to face whilst small. Don't just let them handwave a "I move in, un-wildshape, grab the thing, and then wildshape and escape". There's a lot of distance to cover for a bug, and as Sanvael said, with only an hour of wildshape, they might not make it in and out without changing back!
Also, spiders and other things can make for good obstacles for a bug-player to deal with. As could a homebrew pet with truesight, for example, who starts growling and following them around, whilst the owner is chasing after them to try and stop them, not knowing what is going on! Or perhaps the owner knows its pet does that, and immediately takes precautions against it, maybe talking to the bug and saying "I know what you are, so why not come out and have a chat?".
Don't make it easy for them - the obstacles they set out to avoid have been successfully avoided, but now there's gaps in the floorboards, spiders, people walking, thick carpets, spilled drinks, pets, and so forth to deal with!
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OK, I'll stump for the ant's amazing olfactory capabilities here. I'd give it blindsense out to at least five feet
The slow foot speed is the biggest problem for sure though -- unless you picked a flying ant
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I could see a cat taking notice of a bug or spider. The cat pounces and the wildshape ends because the bug or spider drops to 0 HP. Now, after a surprised cat scream, the druid has surprise but is on his back prone, as a cat streaks off in some direction.
Or
The cat does not notice the bug or spider. The player crawls, slowly, slowly, to the table, and climbs the table leg, and around on top of the table to verify the item is there, but the table explodes when a Glyph of Warding goes off. The bug takes damage and drops to 0HP where the player lands on the ground, momentarily stunned and is prone. Roll initiative.
Or, if the DM wants to just be funny about it ...
The spider reaches the room and sees the table in front of him. He crawls to the opposite side of the table so he can transform back into himself. He ends wildshape and is prone with his arms and legs spread out. As he draws himself up to stand, he lets loose with some loud gas. Two of the fellows turn to look in your direction, and a third one takes a step in your direction ...
Now the third one may be seen as a "Richard Cranium" move against the players, but the DM could say, I thought you'd like that more than a Glyph of Warding. So ...
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Isn't move speed calculated by rounds? a round is typically 6 seconds?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the fastest ant in the world can move at like speeds of 25-30 inches per second, giving this ant a more likely movement speed of 10-15 feet per round. Plenty of time to work with wild shape time limits. Still, people argue the sight limitation would be a mechanic...Personally, I think we are getting too technical cause DM'S typically don't apply actual anatomical animal draw backs to other CR wildshapes.
I'd throw all that out the window for more flavorful RolePlay experience. When players get creative, its your que as a DM to also hype up your game and run with it on their level. As an ant in a dungeon/guarded castle there are plenty of other much more problematical obstacles that could prove hilarious, adventurous and even horrific.. These off the cuff encounters would make for a great story of how that one time my PC turned into an ant and stole the mcguffin from a heavily guarded keep.