One of my characters has betrayed the group (or at least is planning to) and I was wondering a good way to do PVP in the encounter builder? Anyone know what to do?
What kind of support are you looking for from the encounter builder? In PvP both players track their own stats on their character sheets, so there isn't really anything for the DM to track. So I'm not sure what the encounter builder can do for you.
Aside from that, unless you are very sure about what you are doing, I would highly recommend not allowing betrayals and PvP.
On one hand there is obviously the social aspect. If the rest of the party is aware of the betrayal and agrees to play it this way, it might be fine. If it is meant to take the party by surprise, however, this could cause friction between players. Especially if the player doing the betrayal manages to kill one of the other players...
But equally important is the mechanical aspect: The game is simply not built for PvP. DnD is built such that player character classes are complementary, but not balanced against each other. Monsters are balanced such that a well put together party of player characters has a fair chance of beating them. But player classes are not built such that they can face each other and expect a fair fight. It will likely not be fun. There is a good chance it will be over in 1-2 turns and someone will be frustrated because they got hacked into minced meat before they even got to do anything, or someone got CCd to the point where they were helpless the entire fight.
As stated, there is no provision or need for the DM to run the statblocks in the encounter builder.
I would support the notion of ensuring player consent before the betrayal takes place.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
All of the players are aware of what is going to happen. I made it clear to everyone. I guess I more thinking about balancing it. This is supposed to be a big fight but I don't know how easy it would be for the main party to defeat the betrayer. It's a 4 vs 1. I was going to have the BBEG support the betrayer but I'm am unsure how to balancer the encounter.
All of the players are aware of what is going to happen. I made it clear to everyone. I guess I more thinking about balancing it. This is supposed to be a big fight but I don't know how easy it would be for the main party to defeat the betrayer. It's a 4 vs 1. I was going to have the BBEG support the betrayer but I'm am unsure how to balancer the encounter.
A CR1 monster is considered a Medium challenge for a level 1 party, a CR10 monster is a Medium challenge for 4 level 10 characters. I'm assuming that the party will be favoured, but the encounter should still be Deadly difficulty to provide any kind of a challenge. So if they're level 4, I'd add in 3 x monsters of CR 2 or 3.
It's 4 vs. 1, so the character needs 3 monsters of much higher than equivalent level-to-CR to create a decent fight. It would help to know the level of the characters. The the traitor doesn't have backing from at least 3 monsters (which will all need separate initiatives, or else they may whiff the initiative roll and see the traitor PC go down before they get a turn).
The most important thing is that the player running the traitor PC understands that after the fight, even if the character survives, it will become an NPC under DM control and the player will need to roll a new character, since it will become impossible to run the game with one character working against them.
PCs are glass cannons. They hit lick trucks but drop like potato sacks. I frequently create NPCs as PC built and then convert them to Monster Blocks and here’s why I do:
I have learned to not use Feats (or no more than 1 feat max) that do anything but add passive buffs and don’t add a lot of actions to anything because it’s too much nonsense and unhelpful most of the time.•
I give them 1 Legendary Action / Tier of Play, double their Hit Dice and HP. A level 5-10 “character monster” would get 2 Legendary Actions, a level 11-16 one would get 3 LAs.
I figure out what the “character monster’s” first three turns are likely gonna be under most combat situations to calculate average DPR, and then what their “every turn” average DPR would be if different. (After that, to streamline the statblock I drop pretty much all their other features & traits and Actions except their passive buffs and defensive things like Uncanny Dodge.)
Then I use the chart in the DM’s Workshop chapter of the DMG to calculate the “character monster’s” CR with both DPRs and pick the most appropriate result as long as the Proficiency bonus for the CR matches the PC’s Proficiency bonus. If neither matches I pick the closest CR that does.
In your case, since the betrayer will be run by their own player, they won’t need their available options streamlined.
And it wouldn’t be fair to give them Legendary Actions or boosted HP, which is why you need the monsters.
But I would still use the Chart in the DM’s Workshop to calculate CR, and if the PB doesn’t match then I would pick the closest CR that does have the same Proficiency bonus as the PC does. (So you still need the “first three turns DPR” and “every turn DPR” numbers.) That will allow you to balance the encounter.
One of my characters has betrayed the group (or at least is planning to) and I was wondering a good way to do PVP in the encounter builder? Anyone know what to do?
What kind of support are you looking for from the encounter builder? In PvP both players track their own stats on their character sheets, so there isn't really anything for the DM to track. So I'm not sure what the encounter builder can do for you.
Aside from that, unless you are very sure about what you are doing, I would highly recommend not allowing betrayals and PvP.
On one hand there is obviously the social aspect. If the rest of the party is aware of the betrayal and agrees to play it this way, it might be fine. If it is meant to take the party by surprise, however, this could cause friction between players. Especially if the player doing the betrayal manages to kill one of the other players...
But equally important is the mechanical aspect: The game is simply not built for PvP. DnD is built such that player character classes are complementary, but not balanced against each other. Monsters are balanced such that a well put together party of player characters has a fair chance of beating them. But player classes are not built such that they can face each other and expect a fair fight. It will likely not be fun. There is a good chance it will be over in 1-2 turns and someone will be frustrated because they got hacked into minced meat before they even got to do anything, or someone got CCd to the point where they were helpless the entire fight.
As stated, there is no provision or need for the DM to run the statblocks in the encounter builder.
I would support the notion of ensuring player consent before the betrayal takes place.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
All of the players are aware of what is going to happen. I made it clear to everyone. I guess I more thinking about balancing it. This is supposed to be a big fight but I don't know how easy it would be for the main party to defeat the betrayer. It's a 4 vs 1. I was going to have the BBEG support the betrayer but I'm am unsure how to balancer the encounter.
A CR1 monster is considered a Medium challenge for a level 1 party, a CR10 monster is a Medium challenge for 4 level 10 characters. I'm assuming that the party will be favoured, but the encounter should still be Deadly difficulty to provide any kind of a challenge. So if they're level 4, I'd add in 3 x monsters of CR 2 or 3.
It's 4 vs. 1, so the character needs 3 monsters of much higher than equivalent level-to-CR to create a decent fight. It would help to know the level of the characters. The the traitor doesn't have backing from at least 3 monsters (which will all need separate initiatives, or else they may whiff the initiative roll and see the traitor PC go down before they get a turn).
The most important thing is that the player running the traitor PC understands that after the fight, even if the character survives, it will become an NPC under DM control and the player will need to roll a new character, since it will become impossible to run the game with one character working against them.
PCs are glass cannons. They hit lick trucks but drop like potato sacks. I frequently create NPCs as PC built and then convert them to Monster Blocks and here’s why I do:
(After that, to streamline the statblock I drop pretty much all their other features & traits and Actions except their passive buffs and defensive things like Uncanny Dodge.)
I hope that helps.
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