An essential scenario in my game is where the players need to sneak into a villa and stealthily avoid the guards and rescue the imprisoned priest. While sneaking through the Villa, the party will overhear important information about the big bad plans. The only problem is the player runs a rogue whose stealth is their primary skill set needed to walk away from the game for a while and would rather his character not be used as an NPC. I'm already running an NPC, so adding a second would be a little overwhelming. So I'm left with a Cleric NPC, Fighter, Warlock, and Sorcerer whose stealth skills are not so good, to say the least.
Question:
I do not want to throw away this scenario as it is a big piece of the game that divulges essential information that explains the 'Why' of the Big Bad plans. The most straightforward answer is running a group check on stealth, but I have not used this type of check in my games, so I'm a little hesitant to introduce it.
1) Do you have any alternative ideas or opinions on how to run a stealth mission for not-so-stealthy characters?
2) If Group Check is the best way for this scenario, how often would I request the characters make the check in the game? One and done or multiple checks triggering at specific moments?
Have it be a developing situation filled with options for them to distract/deflect attention away from them. Stealth isn't only about being quiet, its about masking your presence through environmental factors.
Don't boil things down to a pass/fail roll as a group, have it be a skill challenge where the guards gradually start to get suspicious and patrol instead of being all-seeing-guards from Hired Goons Inc.! You could also have it raining if you want to dampen perception mechanically. Tell them that there are different avenues to get in other than just stealth and they need X successes to pass the challenge but if they fail Y times then an alarm will be raised and they might have a fight on their hands!
Have it be a developing situation filled with options for them to distract/deflect attention away from them. Stealth isn't only about being quiet, its about masking your presence through environmental factors.
Don't boil things down to a pass/fail roll as a group, have it be a skill challenge where the guards gradually start to get suspicious and patrol instead of being all-seeing-guards from Hired Goons Inc.! You could also have it raining if you want to dampen perception mechanically. Tell them that there are different avenues to get in other than just stealth and they need X successes to pass the challenge but if they fail Y times then an alarm will be raised and they might have a fight on their hands!
I've never got a handle on Skill Challenges. I've read articles and seen videos on that mechanic. Still, when it comes to implementing, it falls apart at the players not knowing what to do or being creative enough that the check has any value to the end goal and myself executing it properly. You pose some excellent ideas about changing the environment and creating outside conditions that may develop advantages to their means of moving along the villa.
They could always find the information written down somewhere.
Stealth missions are really tricky. If you’re playing them with real consequences, one fail should theoretically turn it into a big fight, tpk or capture. And that almost always means the dice will be uncooperative and give you that fail. Personally, I just try to avoid them as whole-party set pieces.
My first take on this is that you shouldn't make the adventure hinge so heavily on the PCs having specific abilities and using specific tactics. I would present the problem (heavily guarded villa with captive) and let them come up with a solution. With possibilities including "do something else for now and come back later".
Without knowing all the in's and out's of the PC's there are 3 options I could come up:
1) NPC cleric casts Enhance Ability on the least stealthy PC providing a buff for Dex checks, if said NPC cleric also turns out to be a trickery domain cleric then "blessing of the trickster" another PC.
2) Use Passive Stealth checks (10+ prof bonus if any + Dex mod - 5 for certain types of armour), allow them to gain a +5 bonus to this if they move half speed to reflect them sticking to shadows and trying to be quiet, then just have the guards use passive perception to see if they detect anything and do a roll at some dramatic moment if needed.
3) Let them ambush or otherwise find some guiards that are on a break/at lunch/having a snooze/in the local tavern after work and have the PC's steal their uniforms and go in a disguise, if they manage it without attacking the guards with weapons then all ok otherwise any damage the guards take might leave blood stains or cuts and scuff marks on the uniforms. Then it becomes more of a Insight vs Decpetion check whilst still being a stealth mission.
You shouldn't tell the players how to do something just what needs to be done. If the task is to rescue the priest sneaking into the villa is one option but there are others, depending on that skills and equipment the party have.
If I was in that party I would be looking to bluff one or more person in maybe disguised as one of the bad guys with mask of many faces / disguise self or similar. If you want a stealth option to be more viable maybe let them find some dust of dust of disappearance. A scroll of dimension door could also be handy for a quick getaway oncew the priest is found.
The players shouldn't use stealth! If your PCs aren't stealthy, then it makes more sense for them to break into the villa, knock out the guards, rescue the imprisoned priest, and interrogate one of the guards about the BBEG's plans. Or to infiltrate the villa, impersonate guards, and be told the BBEG's plans before rescuing the priest. Or to somehow use magic to create the illusion that the god the priest worships demands the priest be let out lest the villa face divine wrath, I guess.
Encourage your players to come up with their own solutions instead of forcing yours upon them. If you made stealth look like the only viable option, then you're forcing decisions upon them. If you tell the players "It turns out you can't be stealthy, what's your plan B?" they will have fun coming up with a new solution, which could be any of mine or a complete surprise. And chances are, you will too.
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Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
Yeah, everyone has pointed out what I feared would be a general opinion. What I was trying to accomplish was something that was not typical: bust the door down, kill everyone, and try to get the players to invest in a little more strategy to their plan.
I'll reconsider how the scenario is designed. If I'm being honest, I imagine my players will call on the City Watch to 'rescue' the trapped priest, allowing them to sit back and watch.
I'll reconsider how the scenario is designed. If I'm being honest, I imagine my players will call on the City Watch to 'rescue' the trapped priest, allowing them to sit back and watch.
"Why don't the authorities deal with X" is a critical part of designing an adventure where the PCs have freedom of action. Usual answers are:
They lack the resources to do so (at least, the resources are not immediately available).
Political factors prevent them from doing so (this includes "yeah, we actually need things like evidence to bust in someone's door").
I'll reconsider how the scenario is designed. If I'm being honest, I imagine my players will call on the City Watch to 'rescue' the trapped priest, allowing them to sit back and watch.
"Why don't the authorities deal with X" is a critical part of designing an adventure where the PCs have freedom of action. Usual answers are:
They lack the resources to do so (at least, the resources are not immediately available).
Political factors prevent them from doing so (this includes "yeah, we actually need things like evidence to bust in someone's door").
A 4th oprion for you to add to my previous. Ask the players to decide if they wanto to stealth in, if yes then tell them its a skill challenge and that success or failure depends on their rolls but not in the normal fashion. Have them all make a stealth roll against a DC that you have hidden away, for example sake, say DC15. Note down the results and then ask the players to decide on one other skill roll to make and ask them to narrate how that roll is going to help them and tell them they need 6 successes in total to make it to the correct area of the house/villa etc. This additional roll needs to be one that they haven't done so far, so they could not redo a stealth check, nor could two of them both try a deception check.
Examples would be: The Sorcerer could make an Arcana roll and say that they will use Minor Illusion to distract guards. The Fighter might use Survival as they have observed the habits of town guards and use that to predict the guards routines. The Warlock might use Deception to pretend to be an off duty guard showing new recruits to lay of the land etc.
Get them to roll against the same DC as for the stealth roll and then narrate their infiltration, so taking the examples mentioned above you could describe them moving through the gardens, keeping to the shadows when they move a branch out of the way and it snaps loudly (indicating a failed stealth roll from some one), a guard on the wall whirls round with crossbow drawn, thinking quickly the Sorcerer mutters a cantrip and create the sound of bird in the tree, the guard relaxes and goes about their watch (indicating the arcana roll succeeded). They enter the villa via a back door and find themselves in a kitchen, they carefully ease their way through when they hear a footsteps coming towards them, they tense and then breathe easy as the footsteps retreat.....etc etc.....
Then if they do fail to achieve the requisite number of successes you can have the guards slowly catch on that interlopers are about and ramp up the tension but give the players the option to bail out of the attempted infiltation or end up with a pitched or running fight through the villa depending on how badly they fail or how well they succeed.
It is not like pure stealth is the only way to do it. Maybe they learn that the villa needs some repairs and they can replace the crew hired for it or convince the workers to help them sneak in. Or the bad guy could be hiring mercenaries and they present themselves for the job, or they rescue a family member that invites them in for a reward or one of their minions is having second thoughts. Or they could do the smash and grab but blame someone else and the guy they rescue might have uncovered the information they need himself.
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Setup:
An essential scenario in my game is where the players need to sneak into a villa and stealthily avoid the guards and rescue the imprisoned priest. While sneaking through the Villa, the party will overhear important information about the big bad plans. The only problem is the player runs a rogue whose stealth is their primary skill set needed to walk away from the game for a while and would rather his character not be used as an NPC. I'm already running an NPC, so adding a second would be a little overwhelming. So I'm left with a Cleric NPC, Fighter, Warlock, and Sorcerer whose stealth skills are not so good, to say the least.
Question:
I do not want to throw away this scenario as it is a big piece of the game that divulges essential information that explains the 'Why' of the Big Bad plans. The most straightforward answer is running a group check on stealth, but I have not used this type of check in my games, so I'm a little hesitant to introduce it.
1) Do you have any alternative ideas or opinions on how to run a stealth mission for not-so-stealthy characters?
2) If Group Check is the best way for this scenario, how often would I request the characters make the check in the game? One and done or multiple checks triggering at specific moments?
Have it be a developing situation filled with options for them to distract/deflect attention away from them. Stealth isn't only about being quiet, its about masking your presence through environmental factors.
Don't boil things down to a pass/fail roll as a group, have it be a skill challenge where the guards gradually start to get suspicious and patrol instead of being all-seeing-guards from Hired Goons Inc.! You could also have it raining if you want to dampen perception mechanically. Tell them that there are different avenues to get in other than just stealth and they need X successes to pass the challenge but if they fail Y times then an alarm will be raised and they might have a fight on their hands!
I've never got a handle on Skill Challenges. I've read articles and seen videos on that mechanic. Still, when it comes to implementing, it falls apart at the players not knowing what to do or being creative enough that the check has any value to the end goal and myself executing it properly. You pose some excellent ideas about changing the environment and creating outside conditions that may develop advantages to their means of moving along the villa.
They could always find the information written down somewhere.
Stealth missions are really tricky. If you’re playing them with real consequences, one fail should theoretically turn it into a big fight, tpk or capture. And that almost always means the dice will be uncooperative and give you that fail. Personally, I just try to avoid them as whole-party set pieces.
My first take on this is that you shouldn't make the adventure hinge so heavily on the PCs having specific abilities and using specific tactics. I would present the problem (heavily guarded villa with captive) and let them come up with a solution. With possibilities including "do something else for now and come back later".
Without knowing all the in's and out's of the PC's there are 3 options I could come up:
1) NPC cleric casts Enhance Ability on the least stealthy PC providing a buff for Dex checks, if said NPC cleric also turns out to be a trickery domain cleric then "blessing of the trickster" another PC.
2) Use Passive Stealth checks (10+ prof bonus if any + Dex mod - 5 for certain types of armour), allow them to gain a +5 bonus to this if they move half speed to reflect them sticking to shadows and trying to be quiet, then just have the guards use passive perception to see if they detect anything and do a roll at some dramatic moment if needed.
3) Let them ambush or otherwise find some guiards that are on a break/at lunch/having a snooze/in the local tavern after work and have the PC's steal their uniforms and go in a disguise, if they manage it without attacking the guards with weapons then all ok otherwise any damage the guards take might leave blood stains or cuts and scuff marks on the uniforms. Then it becomes more of a Insight vs Decpetion check whilst still being a stealth mission.
You shouldn't tell the players how to do something just what needs to be done. If the task is to rescue the priest sneaking into the villa is one option but there are others, depending on that skills and equipment the party have.
If I was in that party I would be looking to bluff one or more person in maybe disguised as one of the bad guys with mask of many faces / disguise self or similar. If you want a stealth option to be more viable maybe let them find some dust of dust of disappearance. A scroll of dimension door could also be handy for a quick getaway oncew the priest is found.
The players shouldn't use stealth! If your PCs aren't stealthy, then it makes more sense for them to break into the villa, knock out the guards, rescue the imprisoned priest, and interrogate one of the guards about the BBEG's plans. Or to infiltrate the villa, impersonate guards, and be told the BBEG's plans before rescuing the priest. Or to somehow use magic to create the illusion that the god the priest worships demands the priest be let out lest the villa face divine wrath, I guess.
Encourage your players to come up with their own solutions instead of forcing yours upon them. If you made stealth look like the only viable option, then you're forcing decisions upon them. If you tell the players "It turns out you can't be stealthy, what's your plan B?" they will have fun coming up with a new solution, which could be any of mine or a complete surprise. And chances are, you will too.
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
Yeah, everyone has pointed out what I feared would be a general opinion. What I was trying to accomplish was something that was not typical: bust the door down, kill everyone, and try to get the players to invest in a little more strategy to their plan.
I'll reconsider how the scenario is designed. If I'm being honest, I imagine my players will call on the City Watch to 'rescue' the trapped priest, allowing them to sit back and watch.
"Why don't the authorities deal with X" is a critical part of designing an adventure where the PCs have freedom of action. Usual answers are:
Valid point and good suggestions. Thanks!
A 4th oprion for you to add to my previous. Ask the players to decide if they wanto to stealth in, if yes then tell them its a skill challenge and that success or failure depends on their rolls but not in the normal fashion. Have them all make a stealth roll against a DC that you have hidden away, for example sake, say DC15. Note down the results and then ask the players to decide on one other skill roll to make and ask them to narrate how that roll is going to help them and tell them they need 6 successes in total to make it to the correct area of the house/villa etc. This additional roll needs to be one that they haven't done so far, so they could not redo a stealth check, nor could two of them both try a deception check.
Examples would be: The Sorcerer could make an Arcana roll and say that they will use Minor Illusion to distract guards. The Fighter might use Survival as they have observed the habits of town guards and use that to predict the guards routines. The Warlock might use Deception to pretend to be an off duty guard showing new recruits to lay of the land etc.
Get them to roll against the same DC as for the stealth roll and then narrate their infiltration, so taking the examples mentioned above you could describe them moving through the gardens, keeping to the shadows when they move a branch out of the way and it snaps loudly (indicating a failed stealth roll from some one), a guard on the wall whirls round with crossbow drawn, thinking quickly the Sorcerer mutters a cantrip and create the sound of bird in the tree, the guard relaxes and goes about their watch (indicating the arcana roll succeeded). They enter the villa via a back door and find themselves in a kitchen, they carefully ease their way through when they hear a footsteps coming towards them, they tense and then breathe easy as the footsteps retreat.....etc etc.....
Then if they do fail to achieve the requisite number of successes you can have the guards slowly catch on that interlopers are about and ramp up the tension but give the players the option to bail out of the attempted infiltation or end up with a pitched or running fight through the villa depending on how badly they fail or how well they succeed.
It is not like pure stealth is the only way to do it. Maybe they learn that the villa needs some repairs and they can replace the crew hired for it or convince the workers to help them sneak in. Or the bad guy could be hiring mercenaries and they present themselves for the job, or they rescue a family member that invites them in for a reward or one of their minions is having second thoughts. Or they could do the smash and grab but blame someone else and the guy they rescue might have uncovered the information they need himself.