I have written up the following for my reference. Am I on the right track of way off base?
Perception / Investigation
Perception
Passive ( Communicated by DM/GM at the appropriate time )
Vague observations of or pertaining to an area, room, object or NPC.i.e. Upon entering a new room or area there appears to be something off about a bookshelf / wall panel / statue or NPC.
Think Peripheral Vision / Gut Feeling.
Roll
PC’s may choose to roll in an attempt confirm and / or gather details regarding any vague observations made. Does not have to be the PC that made the passive observation. i.e. There are scratch marks on the floor near the bookshelf, it appears that it moves somehow.
Investigation
Passive ( Communicated by DM/GM at the appropriate time )
What a PC can decipher based on the clues in their environment.Clues not immediately apparent may have to be discovered through a Perception Roll.i.e. Such as if something moves or not, where as moving close to a fire pit / place and feeling warmth can tell you if there was a recent fire.
Understanding how a simple mechanism works. i.e. a hinge, lever, slide or button type object.
The reading of a sign, plaque or any text in plain view.Weather or not the PC understands the text immediately depends on language skills.
Roll
Physical actions / Manipulation will require a roll against DC ( Difficulty Class ). i.e. Working a hinged panel / door or sliding a bookcase etc..
The way I see it, perception is about looking. You stand in one place, and look. It's wisdom, so it's a lot of keeping a keen eye and noticing what might not normally be noticeable. Similar to insight.
Investigation is all about looking For something. Like finding a false panel can't be seen, but youve seen enough boxes to know this is too short. It's also looking around. Knowing where the best place to find something hidden, or who to ask the right questions to. You don't need to be persuasive or charismatic to ask the right questions.
From what I've seen, you're pretty spot on. My rule of thumb for the the moment differentiation is:
If you're standing in one spot, or making split second observations, perception.
If you can't see it standing still, or at all, need more than a second to figure it out, or it requires reasoning, it's investigation.
In my session zeros I make it very clear that Investigation is always hands on search, Perception is what you see, hear, smell, or can taste.
Example: The party enter an office in which they suspect the master thief has a cache of information or evidence. Player 1, asks if they can look around for evidence of things out of place - they roll perception and they can see that there is more wear on a desk drawer handle. Player 2 asks if they can feel around the desk for any secret compartments or the like. They roll investigation and begin to feel around the desk, pulling on handles, turning knobs and the like until they find out that one of the drawer handles turns anti-clockwise.
In a similar set-up (but this time for a hidden or secret door), the party enter a room. Player 1 makes a perception check and notices a thinner layer of dust in an odd pattern near the eastern wall. Player 2 makes an investigation check and starts tapping the walls, finding a part that sounds like there is a hollow behind it. Player 3 makes an insight check based off what the other two have done and realises that might be a secret/hidden door.
More often that not I don't require all these checks, and one check is going to do the job quite well. This is just to explain using the same situation what I use the skill checks for.
I'd also add that if the stock skill check names don't work for you and your players - ditch them. There's absolutely no harm in creating or renaming skill checks to be more appropriate to how your table play. Let's be clear - the writers behind D&D are mediocre at best. The entire reason Crawford put out advice on his twitter feed for so long was a poor editing process in the books. Therein though lies a freedom for us as DMs - clarify the skill checks and how they work in agreement with your players. If you need to rename or add some new skill checks - do it. No-one is going to stop you. Do what works for your table.
I tend to think of perception as detection, and investigation as recognition. They have a problem of intersection.
For example, let's say your dungeon has a pressure plate trap.
It's perception to notice the pressure plate.
It's investigation to figure out what the pressure plate does.
Most of the time, you can just notice "hey, there's a pressure plate, let's not step on it" and be done. However, if the dungeon owners pave a section of passage with a large number of pressure plates, some of which are associated with the locking mechanism for a door, some of which trigger traps, and some of which do nothing, the perception check is pretty easy but also not very useful, and the investigation check is a lot more important.
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I have written up the following for my reference. Am I on the right track of way off base?
Perception / Investigation
The line between perception and investigation is hopelessly muddled, so... maybe?
I guess that’s better than you’re out of your mind.
The way I see it, perception is about looking. You stand in one place, and look. It's wisdom, so it's a lot of keeping a keen eye and noticing what might not normally be noticeable. Similar to insight.
Investigation is all about looking For something. Like finding a false panel can't be seen, but youve seen enough boxes to know this is too short. It's also looking around. Knowing where the best place to find something hidden, or who to ask the right questions to. You don't need to be persuasive or charismatic to ask the right questions.
From what I've seen, you're pretty spot on. My rule of thumb for the the moment differentiation is:
If you're standing in one spot, or making split second observations, perception.
If you can't see it standing still, or at all, need more than a second to figure it out, or it requires reasoning, it's investigation.
In my session zeros I make it very clear that Investigation is always hands on search, Perception is what you see, hear, smell, or can taste.
Example:
The party enter an office in which they suspect the master thief has a cache of information or evidence. Player 1, asks if they can look around for evidence of things out of place - they roll perception and they can see that there is more wear on a desk drawer handle. Player 2 asks if they can feel around the desk for any secret compartments or the like. They roll investigation and begin to feel around the desk, pulling on handles, turning knobs and the like until they find out that one of the drawer handles turns anti-clockwise.
In a similar set-up (but this time for a hidden or secret door), the party enter a room. Player 1 makes a perception check and notices a thinner layer of dust in an odd pattern near the eastern wall. Player 2 makes an investigation check and starts tapping the walls, finding a part that sounds like there is a hollow behind it. Player 3 makes an insight check based off what the other two have done and realises that might be a secret/hidden door.
More often that not I don't require all these checks, and one check is going to do the job quite well. This is just to explain using the same situation what I use the skill checks for.
I'd also add that if the stock skill check names don't work for you and your players - ditch them. There's absolutely no harm in creating or renaming skill checks to be more appropriate to how your table play. Let's be clear - the writers behind D&D are mediocre at best. The entire reason Crawford put out advice on his twitter feed for so long was a poor editing process in the books. Therein though lies a freedom for us as DMs - clarify the skill checks and how they work in agreement with your players. If you need to rename or add some new skill checks - do it. No-one is going to stop you. Do what works for your table.
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I tend to think of Perception is visual/audible, and Investigation is touching.
e.g. Looking at a desk for a secret compartment is Perception, touching it looking for a secret compartment is Investigation.
I tend to think of perception as detection, and investigation as recognition. They have a problem of intersection.
For example, let's say your dungeon has a pressure plate trap.
Most of the time, you can just notice "hey, there's a pressure plate, let's not step on it" and be done. However, if the dungeon owners pave a section of passage with a large number of pressure plates, some of which are associated with the locking mechanism for a door, some of which trigger traps, and some of which do nothing, the perception check is pretty easy but also not very useful, and the investigation check is a lot more important.