I am posting this in a few forums. So over the last 10 years I've used and figured out a few ways to make encounters for campaigns the way I run them, 2-3 encounters per adventuring day max, sometimes just 1 big one. So how in Zeus's butthole are we supposed to create encounters with the 2014 MM for 2024 PC's? Has anyone found a good formula or CR conversation system yet?
I recently recommended to one DM in our group (the only one so far running a game that uses 2024 characters), to multiply the number of creatures in each of his encounters by 1.5, and to also perhaps max out their hp - because 2024 characters are WAY stronger than 2014 characters, and we're blowing through the encounters like they were figments of our imagination. Every encounter since the conversion has been a cake walk (even his 'boss' encounter with legendary actions, lair actions, and minions went down without a challenge).
I don't understand why they felt the need to feed muscle milk to every class in 2024, all 5e needed was a few tweaks, not a full shot of adrenaline for everyone with caffeine chaser.
I would disagree that 2024 characters are WAY stronger than 2014 characters. They're on average stronger, but you could put together a 2014 party that's stronger than an average 2024 party. The real problem is that the encounter building rules were nonsense even in 2014. My recommended standard for tier 2 PCs in 2014 was "total CR equal to half the party's total levels; if this proves too easy start upgrading" (so 4 level 6 get 12 total CR), and I don't see a lot of reason to change it in 2024, other than extending it down into tier 1 because tier 1 PCs are stronger than they used to be.
Yeah, for me I fell like I’ll still be using the exact same formula, 2-4 “Deadly”—“Deadly+” encounters per day, and play it by ear if I need to bump them to 2-4 “Deadly+”—“Deadly++” instead.
After finishing my last campaign a while back, this is why I've been disinclined to start a new campaign with 2024 characters (we 've switched to the Marvel RPG for the time being!).
But as others have pointed out the CR/Encounter building tools never really worked that well.
I found it wasn't too bad IF I set it up for the PCs to have several "medium" encounters first then a "hard" or "deadly" one at the end with nowhere to rest. If I did that, the last encounter did tend to offer more of a challenge, but that could be because I could always rely on my players to blast through their high level spells or limited resources with abandon and end up with barely anything left by the time they got to the Big Bad!
But if I knew there would only be one or two encounters in the day, I would have to make them "deadly" at least. And even then would sometimes max out the HP and chuck a few minions in (as a distraction) just to ensure the battle lasted more than a couple of rounds.
And that's the 2014 characters. I'm just not sure I want to start a 2024 campaign right now until the new Monster Manual is out and that won't be until February :(
I'm wondering what the encounter building rules will be like in the new DMG though. Haven't really heard anything about that.
My playlets group has been struggling to find a good hard and fast rule, or math, to make encounters that are consistent in difficulty for use against 2024 characters. And thats saying ALOT. I am hoping the DMG has something, I'm in a group that have been chomping at the bit to start a 2024 campaign but we are probably gonna just start a short one or do Dragon Heist or the such with 2014 characters until Feb.
The glib, but honestly reasonable answer - don't. The 2024 ruleset isn't complete. It won't be until we've got the PHB, DMG, MM, and a starter adventure. PHB tells us about the character options, DMG tells us about how they designers assumed play would go, MM tells us how monsters are designed, and the starter adventure should give us an example of an adventure as intended.
In 2014, it was the Starter Set that was released first. Then the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual was a month late, and the DMG following two months later. This was an order that made sense because we got to see the Basic Rules, and a starter adventure that DMs could see as an example of how the rules were intended to be implemented. Then we got the full player character options followed by the cool monsters. The DMG largely was...well let's be honest it was and is poorly laid out and badly edited. But it told us in clear language the assumptions made upon which the rules are designed.
So, honestly, the earliest I'll be running the new edition is when we see the starter adventure. Until then, I don't think it's worth considering. And yes folks, it is a new edition despite what the marketing people want to you think.
If players are really that keen to use the new options, I'd just highlight that they can expect that it will be a far easier experience than they'd be used to. WotC have staged things in a silly way in an attempt to make more money from players. The system isn't yet complete, and it's okay to tell players that. I can understand why they'd be excited - D&D Players usually are. It's not unreasonable to let them know that their expectations should be a little lower.
To be clear, I think the weapon masteries are quite interesting. I think there's some good things in the new PHB. However, there's more I think don't make sense - including the silly marketing choices made.
My playlets group has been struggling to find a good hard and fast rule, or math, to make encounters that are consistent in difficulty for use against 2024 characters.
Well, you can't do that with 2014 characters so I'm not sure why you'd expect it for 2024 characters; even setting aside differences in power level, there's quite large situational and random variance in D&D combat.
I am posting this in a few forums. So over the last 10 years I've used and figured out a few ways to make encounters for campaigns the way I run them, 2-3 encounters per adventuring day max, sometimes just 1 big one. So how in Zeus's butthole are we supposed to create encounters with the 2014 MM for 2024 PC's? Has anyone found a good formula or CR conversation system yet?
The smartest, cleanest, and lowest stress manner for a DM, is to NOT allow players to use the new material until the new MM comes out. There is no reason to allow players to use new OP material against existing monsters. They can wait a few more months until the new MM is out. Or perhaps, don't cut over at all, ever.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I am posting this in a few forums. So over the last 10 years I've used and figured out a few ways to make encounters for campaigns the way I run them, 2-3 encounters per adventuring day max, sometimes just 1 big one. So how in Zeus's butthole are we supposed to create encounters with the 2014 MM for 2024 PC's? Has anyone found a good formula or CR conversation system yet?
I recently recommended to one DM in our group (the only one so far running a game that uses 2024 characters), to multiply the number of creatures in each of his encounters by 1.5, and to also perhaps max out their hp - because 2024 characters are WAY stronger than 2014 characters, and we're blowing through the encounters like they were figments of our imagination. Every encounter since the conversion has been a cake walk (even his 'boss' encounter with legendary actions, lair actions, and minions went down without a challenge).
I don't understand why they felt the need to feed muscle milk to every class in 2024, all 5e needed was a few tweaks, not a full shot of adrenaline for everyone with caffeine chaser.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
I would disagree that 2024 characters are WAY stronger than 2014 characters. They're on average stronger, but you could put together a 2014 party that's stronger than an average 2024 party. The real problem is that the encounter building rules were nonsense even in 2014. My recommended standard for tier 2 PCs in 2014 was "total CR equal to half the party's total levels; if this proves too easy start upgrading" (so 4 level 6 get 12 total CR), and I don't see a lot of reason to change it in 2024, other than extending it down into tier 1 because tier 1 PCs are stronger than they used to be.
Yeah, for me I fell like I’ll still be using the exact same formula, 2-4 “Deadly”—“Deadly+” encounters per day, and play it by ear if I need to bump them to 2-4 “Deadly+”—“Deadly++” instead.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
After finishing my last campaign a while back, this is why I've been disinclined to start a new campaign with 2024 characters (we 've switched to the Marvel RPG for the time being!).
But as others have pointed out the CR/Encounter building tools never really worked that well.
I found it wasn't too bad IF I set it up for the PCs to have several "medium" encounters first then a "hard" or "deadly" one at the end with nowhere to rest. If I did that, the last encounter did tend to offer more of a challenge, but that could be because I could always rely on my players to blast through their high level spells or limited resources with abandon and end up with barely anything left by the time they got to the Big Bad!
But if I knew there would only be one or two encounters in the day, I would have to make them "deadly" at least. And even then would sometimes max out the HP and chuck a few minions in (as a distraction) just to ensure the battle lasted more than a couple of rounds.
And that's the 2014 characters. I'm just not sure I want to start a 2024 campaign right now until the new Monster Manual is out and that won't be until February :(
I'm wondering what the encounter building rules will be like in the new DMG though. Haven't really heard anything about that.
My playlets group has been struggling to find a good hard and fast rule, or math, to make encounters that are consistent in difficulty for use against 2024 characters. And thats saying ALOT. I am hoping the DMG has something, I'm in a group that have been chomping at the bit to start a 2024 campaign but we are probably gonna just start a short one or do Dragon Heist or the such with 2014 characters until Feb.
The glib, but honestly reasonable answer - don't. The 2024 ruleset isn't complete. It won't be until we've got the PHB, DMG, MM, and a starter adventure. PHB tells us about the character options, DMG tells us about how they designers assumed play would go, MM tells us how monsters are designed, and the starter adventure should give us an example of an adventure as intended.
In 2014, it was the Starter Set that was released first. Then the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual was a month late, and the DMG following two months later. This was an order that made sense because we got to see the Basic Rules, and a starter adventure that DMs could see as an example of how the rules were intended to be implemented. Then we got the full player character options followed by the cool monsters. The DMG largely was...well let's be honest it was and is poorly laid out and badly edited. But it told us in clear language the assumptions made upon which the rules are designed.
So, honestly, the earliest I'll be running the new edition is when we see the starter adventure. Until then, I don't think it's worth considering. And yes folks, it is a new edition despite what the marketing people want to you think.
If players are really that keen to use the new options, I'd just highlight that they can expect that it will be a far easier experience than they'd be used to. WotC have staged things in a silly way in an attempt to make more money from players. The system isn't yet complete, and it's okay to tell players that. I can understand why they'd be excited - D&D Players usually are. It's not unreasonable to let them know that their expectations should be a little lower.
To be clear, I think the weapon masteries are quite interesting. I think there's some good things in the new PHB. However, there's more I think don't make sense - including the silly marketing choices made.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Well, you can't do that with 2014 characters so I'm not sure why you'd expect it for 2024 characters; even setting aside differences in power level, there's quite large situational and random variance in D&D combat.
The smartest, cleanest, and lowest stress manner for a DM, is to NOT allow players to use the new material until the new MM comes out. There is no reason to allow players to use new OP material against existing monsters. They can wait a few more months until the new MM is out. Or perhaps, don't cut over at all, ever.