The Rogue in a group I'm running basically thinks that he is the king of the D&D rules (he is really far from it), every session, he says he can use cunning action (a rogue ability) use dash as a bonus action, that is true, but he tries to stack like three bonus actions into the same turn. Here is an example of something he has said,
Rogue: I run in and use two weapon fighting to hit him twice with my daggers,
Me: Sure.
Rogue: Then I use my bonus action to dash and get out of the way.
Me: No, you used your bonus action to hit him twice with your daggers.
Rogue: No. Cunning Action let's me use dash as a bonus action.
Me: I know but you only get one bonus action!
This will go on for five minutes, the whole time the other party members are yelling at him that he's wrong. He is so determined to prove me wrong even though he has only been playing D&D for a few months. Does anyone have an idea to make him stop, other than killing off his character and making him play something other than a rogue?
"You don't get another bonus action, your turn is over. [John] what do you do?"
Just move on. Don't let him argue.
It's wasting your time, and the other players' time, and lagging your game. If this doesn't give him the message of choosing his bonus actions more carefully, then he will just be putting himself into ineffective positions, and the effects of combat will work naturally to make him play by the rules, as he will have to choose between ending up in terrible spots, or using the rules as written.
Well you can take some time out of the session, before or after. Explain to the group that you as DM make calls during the game. They might be incorrect, but at the moment its best to keep the pace going. Then look up the rules after the session, learn and improve for the next session. This should cut any of that behavior short.
If he thinks to be correct then let him show the rules that say so. He has 1 week to do that in between sessions. If he fails, which he will, he just needs to shut up and listen to the DM.
If he still resumes being a disruption then you have to eventually even lay down the law. Either he stops or have him leave the group.
There is an easy way to deal with this, I had to use it with one of my players and it saved time and headaches at my table. My player doesn't argue with me, she's just new to the game and the complexity of a rogue can be daunting.
Write down turn orders for the class and how they work. I wrote down all the basic information on 3x5 cards giving the math, the flow charts and actions available.
Actions on your turn:
Attack: your first attack with (insert weapon).
Movement: the 30ft you are able to move, broken up as you see fit.
Bonus Action: One (1) of the following: Off-hand attack, Cunning action, or (insert other bonus actions)
By doing it this way the player cannot argue the information in front of them, it'll help them memorize what's available, and should solve some of the problem
---
I also use prompts on every player's turn for the first 3 levels of character growth. This simple repetition helps everyone become familiar with the what's available to them.
"You have a movement, action, and bonus. You just moved 15 feet, leaving you 15 more feet to use. You swung and missed with your rapier, so all you have left is your bonus action. Do you have anything you can use as a bonus action, are you going to move, or is your turn done?"
---
Another thing you can do is break down what the player is saying into the actions of their turn:
"You are attacking with your rapier, then with your bonus action you swing a second time using your dagger, is that correct?"
This helps clarify both your understanding and their intent while also solidifying how the actions are interpreted by the rules.
---
The last thing, and you have to use it carefully: I'm the DM, it is my job to make sure the rules are followed, you're trying to do something not allowed by the rules. Your turn is ended, if you have any other issues wait til after the game to talk about them. Initiative 14, you're up. You put your foot down and give them the chance to follow up after the game so as to keep thing moving along.
If you're using DnD Beyond for character sheets, the new layout lays out pretty clearly what's an action, bonus action, or other.
Looking at my one player who has Two Weapon Fighting, his sheet says the following under bonus action:
Actions in Combat
Two-Weapon Fighting
Great Weapon Master Attack
On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 HP with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
Second Wind
Once per short rest, you can use a bonus action to regain 1d10 + 5 HP.
/
Short Rest
This even shows on the PDF export.
Essenially DMThac0's suggestion, but DnDBeyond does it for you
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Judging by the interaction you described in the OP, it seems like the player either doesnt understand that he only has one bonus action, or that his bonus action was used. Obviously there is probably more to this that isnt explained in a text post, but it might be that he thinks any attack counts as the 'attack' action, not the bonus action.
If you can keep the situation calm and explain it to him in detail, that might help.
If you still have issues, try and work it out with him 1 on 1 after a session, or simply continue on to the next player.
I would also recommend talking with him about it outside the session. Best not to waste the other players' time with it. Make it a friendly, informal chat. Have the rulebooks ready to show that players only get one bonus action per turn.
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The thing is, when I show him the rules, he straight up says it's wrong. He has started to learn that the other players hate that he does this (Especially the Bard), so he is starting to ease up on that.
Anyway, thank you all. This is really helping, you guys have some good ideas.
The thing is, when I show him the rules, he straight up says it's wrong.
I strongly suggest that you have a discussion about this between just the two of you then.
If you all want to play a game, that game needs some form of rules, so that it's a level playing field. As a group, you can agree to change those rules - that's cool, but there needs to be an agreed set of rules that everyone at the table uses, otherwise everything falls apart.
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I think this is another scenario where Sam Hain's cure-all could be applied.
I think the answer is pretty obvious.
Need to reduce you population of uppity, argumentative, disruptive players who argue your rulings at every turn? Do they make dire emergencies out of every inconvenience?
Have their most recently equipped item turn out to be a mimic. One biding its time before biting time.
Player character still alive? Player still being argumentative and disruptive? "WELL WILL YOU LOOK AT THAT! That mimic wasn't alone! Boy, Anon, you really need to be more careful with what you strap onto your body."
Player takes offense that you keep pulling random mimics out of thin air? "You mean like this?" and another mimic appears.
"Please stop with the mimics!" "Did someone say mimic?!"
And the cycle continues until the disruptive player leaves, or is left a broken and apologetic mass of compliance.
SURGEON GENERAL ADVISORY: Following Sam_Hain's advise can lead to unexpected and undesirable side effects such as sudden loss of players or friends, unexplained increase in haters, bouts of authoritarian power trips, or an unhealthy obsession with or fear of common every day objects being mimics.
Give your player two index cards. One labelled “action”, the other labelled “bonus action”. Tell him he only gets one of each on his turn. When he uses one, he gives you the index card, treating it as currency or a coupon. You can literally show him “no, you’ve used up your only one this turn. That’s why you don’t have one in front of you now. This is how the game works, both rules as written, and more importantly, at my table.” Provide him with an opportunity to rebuild his character/build a new character since he’s made his rogue under numerous false assumptions, and may be bitter that his character can’t do what he envisioned.
Edit: I’m also very curious how he can say page 189 of the phb is wrong.
“You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available”
listen to stormknight take some one on one time with the player, go over his class with him read through it and you can settle any confusion immediately. as far as arguing about rules in the middle of the session, unacceptable, DM is the referee, in the moment you have to make a judgement call and if someone has an issue they need to write it down and look it up later outside of the game and then address it with you. and if you have them make their character sheets on DDB then you can sort what actions you can do by attack, action, bonus action, reaction, makes things extremely easy to understand, and let him know you only get one of each per round of combat, 1 action 1 bonus action if you have an ability that lets you use something as a bonus action, your movement and your reaction. hope some of this helps.
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The Rogue in a group I'm running basically thinks that he is the king of the D&D rules (he is really far from it), every session, he says he can use cunning action (a rogue ability) use dash as a bonus action, that is true, but he tries to stack like three bonus actions into the same turn. Here is an example of something he has said,
Rogue: I run in and use two weapon fighting to hit him twice with my daggers,
Me: Sure.
Rogue: Then I use my bonus action to dash and get out of the way.
Me: No, you used your bonus action to hit him twice with your daggers.
Rogue: No. Cunning Action let's me use dash as a bonus action.
Me: I know but you only get one bonus action!
This will go on for five minutes, the whole time the other party members are yelling at him that he's wrong. He is so determined to prove me wrong even though he has only been playing D&D for a few months. Does anyone have an idea to make him stop, other than killing off his character and making him play something other than a rogue?
"You don't get another bonus action, your turn is over. [John] what do you do?"
Just move on. Don't let him argue.
It's wasting your time, and the other players' time, and lagging your game. If this doesn't give him the message of choosing his bonus actions more carefully, then he will just be putting himself into ineffective positions, and the effects of combat will work naturally to make him play by the rules, as he will have to choose between ending up in terrible spots, or using the rules as written.
Well you can take some time out of the session, before or after. Explain to the group that you as DM make calls during the game. They might be incorrect, but at the moment its best to keep the pace going. Then look up the rules after the session, learn and improve for the next session. This should cut any of that behavior short.
If he thinks to be correct then let him show the rules that say so. He has 1 week to do that in between sessions. If he fails, which he will, he just needs to shut up and listen to the DM.
If he still resumes being a disruption then you have to eventually even lay down the law. Either he stops or have him leave the group.
There is an easy way to deal with this, I had to use it with one of my players and it saved time and headaches at my table. My player doesn't argue with me, she's just new to the game and the complexity of a rogue can be daunting.
Write down turn orders for the class and how they work. I wrote down all the basic information on 3x5 cards giving the math, the flow charts and actions available.
Actions on your turn:
Attack: your first attack with (insert weapon).
Movement: the 30ft you are able to move, broken up as you see fit.
Bonus Action: One (1) of the following: Off-hand attack, Cunning action, or (insert other bonus actions)
By doing it this way the player cannot argue the information in front of them, it'll help them memorize what's available, and should solve some of the problem
---
I also use prompts on every player's turn for the first 3 levels of character growth. This simple repetition helps everyone become familiar with the what's available to them.
"You have a movement, action, and bonus. You just moved 15 feet, leaving you 15 more feet to use. You swung and missed with your rapier, so all you have left is your bonus action. Do you have anything you can use as a bonus action, are you going to move, or is your turn done?"
---
Another thing you can do is break down what the player is saying into the actions of their turn:
"You are attacking with your rapier, then with your bonus action you swing a second time using your dagger, is that correct?"
This helps clarify both your understanding and their intent while also solidifying how the actions are interpreted by the rules.
---
The last thing, and you have to use it carefully: I'm the DM, it is my job to make sure the rules are followed, you're trying to do something not allowed by the rules. Your turn is ended, if you have any other issues wait til after the game to talk about them. Initiative 14, you're up. You put your foot down and give them the chance to follow up after the game so as to keep thing moving along.
If you're using DnD Beyond for character sheets, the new layout lays out pretty clearly what's an action, bonus action, or other.
Looking at my one player who has Two Weapon Fighting, his sheet says the following under bonus action:
On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 HP with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
Once per short rest, you can use a bonus action to regain 1d10 + 5 HP.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Judging by the interaction you described in the OP, it seems like the player either doesnt understand that he only has one bonus action, or that his bonus action was used. Obviously there is probably more to this that isnt explained in a text post, but it might be that he thinks any attack counts as the 'attack' action, not the bonus action.
If you can keep the situation calm and explain it to him in detail, that might help.
If you still have issues, try and work it out with him 1 on 1 after a session, or simply continue on to the next player.
I would also recommend talking with him about it outside the session. Best not to waste the other players' time with it. Make it a friendly, informal chat. Have the rulebooks ready to show that players only get one bonus action per turn.
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The thing is, when I show him the rules, he straight up says it's wrong. He has started to learn that the other players hate that he does this (Especially the Bard), so he is starting to ease up on that.
Anyway, thank you all. This is really helping, you guys have some good ideas.
I strongly suggest that you have a discussion about this between just the two of you then.
If you all want to play a game, that game needs some form of rules, so that it's a level playing field. As a group, you can agree to change those rules - that's cool, but there needs to be an agreed set of rules that everyone at the table uses, otherwise everything falls apart.
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Player: These rules are wrong
Me: These are the rules we're playing with, and the rules everyone else has agreed to abide by. You can play with them, or you can walk away.
Seriously: "No DM got time for this Sh#%%"
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
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I think this is another scenario where Sam Hain's cure-all could be applied.
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Give your player two index cards. One labelled “action”, the other labelled “bonus action”. Tell him he only gets one of each on his turn. When he uses one, he gives you the index card, treating it as currency or a coupon. You can literally show him “no, you’ve used up your only one this turn. That’s why you don’t have one in front of you now. This is how the game works, both rules as written, and more importantly, at my table.” Provide him with an opportunity to rebuild his character/build a new character since he’s made his rogue under numerous false assumptions, and may be bitter that his character can’t do what he envisioned.
Edit: I’m also very curious how he can say page 189 of the phb is wrong.
“You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available”
listen to stormknight take some one on one time with the player, go over his class with him read through it and you can settle any confusion immediately. as far as arguing about rules in the middle of the session, unacceptable, DM is the referee, in the moment you have to make a judgement call and if someone has an issue they need to write it down and look it up later outside of the game and then address it with you. and if you have them make their character sheets on DDB then you can sort what actions you can do by attack, action, bonus action, reaction, makes things extremely easy to understand, and let him know you only get one of each per round of combat, 1 action 1 bonus action if you have an ability that lets you use something as a bonus action, your movement and your reaction. hope some of this helps.