Alright RP reasons behind a Bladesinger having high AC:
Bladesingers are elves who bravely defend their people and lands. They are elf wizards who master a school of sword fighting grounded in a tradition of arcane magic.
As such an elf, just starting out to adventure, is between 100-200 years old. This gives them a LOT longer to learn the intricacies of their magic and their sword beyond a mere human.
In combat, a bladesinger uses a series of intricate, elegant maneuvers that fend off harm and allow the bladesinger to channel magic into devastating attacks and a cunning defense.
The Elves have learned how to be more capable on the battlefield, designing a combat style that is dedicated to defense. Spending, at minimum, a century working on being adept at it.
Styles of Bladesinging are broadly categorized based on the type of weapon employed, and each is associated with a category of animal.
Much like Kung-Fu/martial arts, the practitioner may still take a hit or two but they have learned how to mitigate that damage so that it causes little to no harm.
----
Now, to the point:
I have a Drow Draconic Sorcerer in one game, his AC at level 2 is 18, then I cast shield and I get 23.
A player at my table has a Barbarian who's AC at level 1 is 19/21.
The problem is not the subclass. What we have is a power gamer who optimized their character. Then there was a combat scenario that allowed this person to use this optimized character to it's fullest extent. It sounds just like when there is a Barbarian of the Bear Totem, they get two 18s which allows them an 19 AC, then they pick up a shield which bumps it to 21. Now you have an almost unkillable character at level 3.
You're frustrated, you're upset, and it's understandable. However, the subclass is not broken, the situation is not unique, and it's something that can be worked with. Learn from your mistakes, change your tactics, and use this chance to rise to the challenge. If something like this is enough to get you that upset, you may even need to take a break from the game. It's not worth getting that worked up over.
To answer your final question: As someone who (for some strange reason) only plays the Wizard class, I have to say that I like the Bladesinger and have happily played one to higher levels when I wanted to be a melee character - though at those higher levels I all but gave up the melee and just played a full caster. But as someone who is a 95% DM, I do not see it as broken in any bit... only annoying from time to time. I believe the core of the problem that you encountered is allowing your PCs to roll for stats, and then creating low level encounters based on the 5e balance and bounded accuracy... that's just not going to work. As much as us older farts love our stat rolling, 5e was not made for that when you really think about it. With the ability for stat bumps every 4 levels (or less), good starting rolls can lead to some obnoxiously statted players by level 8. In the old ad&d days we didn't have those stat bumps - what you rolled was pretty much it (give or take a magic item here and there), it just wasn't built into leveling like in 5e. But this is a discussion I don't care to have on here, so I'll leave it at that - my opinion (which likely will never change because I'm a grumpy old bastard). Given the above, your friend's Bladesinger was attacking and defending like a much much higher level PC, and (I'm assuming here) your encounter was geared towards 1st-2nd level AC and TO-HIT. If my assumption is wrong, I apologize.
To address your other question/point (if I may) "RP reasons that this wizard aka a scholar who spends his life reading to gain arcane knowledge is harder to hit than the monks and fighters who spend their whole lives training to" Now... this is how I explained this very thing in my group long ago. His Intelligence comes into play from study of fighting techniques, animal and monster behavior, and knowing his own limits. Knowledge of geometry, physics, etc has taught him how to dodge an attack based on the foes weapon, body type, and terrain. His Dexterity aids him in being quick enough to move out of the way or deflect a blow based upon his knowledge. However, ALL of this gets bolstered by his magical abilities. And even so, once that fighter gets a good Belt of Something Strength, +Whatever Armor of Something, and Boots of Arse Kicking, compared to an evenly leveled and statted Bladesinger..... well, that's when I said I just stuck back and played the Full Caster from that point (as mentioned above).
I feel your frustration though man. I used to get so pissed at the Power Builders. But I'm older now and don't get bothered by much. Now I just read the table. If I see that the one Player is dominating to the point where the others are upset and not cheering them on, I just do some DM magic and now the beastie has used his hidden ability to add a +3 to his AC or TO-HIT against the Bladesinger because he has been studying him.... or some other nonsense that I don't care to tell them about. It's all in the spirit of everyone having a fun time.
If the Bladesinger is overpowered then so is the Barbarian. A lvl 1 barbarian with a Dex and Con of 20 and using a shield has an armor class of 22. And that isn't conditional like the Bladesingers AC bonus is.
Not to mention that a 1st level fighter wearing plate mail and shield with the defensive fighting style has an AC of 21.
The Bladesinger with max dex and int using mage armor has and AC of 18 except for 2 minutes per short rest where it is 23, when he is bladesing. So while the Wizard has slightly higher max AC it is very conditional and time limited. The barbarian and fighter have almost as good AC that is persistent and much more hitpoints to be able to weather any damage.
I may have missed something, but those stats don't add up. You say they are level 2, so that puts the character's stat block in the same circumstances of a freshly created level 1 character.
Ability Scores:
If their highest rolled stats were 18 & 17, it's not possible to have started with two 20's. The highest bonus to a single ability score that a character can receive at creation is +2, and there are none (that I'm aware of) which give a +2 to more than one ability score. It is impossible to have a +3 bonus at creation, and it was designed this way on purpose. Even a Variant Human picking a feat that grants a +1 to an ability score cannot exceed a net +2 at creation.
A Bladesinger must be an Elf/Half-Elf, so of all those variant lineages, the absolute best that your player could have gotten was a +2 Dex/+1 Int. Wizard/Bladesinger does not provide any bonus to ability scores. Either your player cheated/made a mistake here, or you gave them a non-standard bonus that you haven't told us about.
AC:
It can't be 23. Unless you gave them something that you haven't told us about, it just cannot be that high. Even if we assume that the player rightfully has a 20 Dex & Int (which has been established as unlikely), it's still not possible. Let's start from the base:
A Bladesinger cannot use medium/heavy armor or a shield. If the player is using the strongest possible light armor (Studded Leather), that provides them with an AC of 12 + Dex. With a 20 Dex, that gives them a baseline maximum AC of 17. If they activate Bladesong (and actually have a 20 Int as well) that brings their AC max up to 22. That's the absolute highest a Bladesinger's AC can go without magic items, spells, etc. A level 2 Bladesinger is not going to have those.
The Shield spell is not a problem. Lots of classes get access to that spell one way or another. It is very powerful, yes, but it's also a spell slot for a less than a single round of benefit. As others have said, there are plenty of non-AC dependent ways of challenging a player in combat. However, if that AC bonus were a definitive factor in whether the character is "touchable" in combat, then you can easily force them to burn through their resources quickly, and proceed to punish them for blowing their load. 🤷♂️
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Firstly I’ve run many game where players have rolled 18’s and never had any problems before, it’s easily rolled. And should I do all that all I’m gonna do is kill the character, that has a lot of work done by the player for backstory, making them fit the world, npc’s they know, etc.
no one has yet to offer me an RP reason for the ac too
1) The sub class isn't broken. Wizards have very poor hit points. There are lots of threats that can be dangerous to them.
2) I've seen almost any martial class at higher levels with comparable AC from various class features and magic items as well as access to the shield spell. It isn't uncommon in tier 2.
3) A typcial tier 1 blade singer would have an AC of 19. 13 from mage armor +3 dex, +3 int ... boosted to 24 with shield. Low hit points/good AC.
4) The ISSUE in this case is the the character started with 20 in dex and int due to rolled stats. The game is not designed in terms of balance around characters with maxed level 20 stats at level 1. A level 20 bladesinger would likely have the AC of your 2nd level character. Would you complain about it then?
5) I have seen bladesingers played in Adventurer's League, they are fun, they can be quite impressive but they aren't OP compared to many other builds. They are pretty much in line with balance since a wizard is typically much more useful at higher levels standing back casting than running in to melee. Most of the higher level bladesingers I have seen in play cast spells and only hop into melee when they don't have something better to do (Mobile feat goes a long way helping with this playstyle).
6) From a lore perspective, read SCAG where the bladesinger is introduced.
"Bladesingers are elves who bravely defend their people and lands. They are elf wizards who master a school of sword fighting grounded in a tradition of arcane magic. In combat, a bladesinger uses a series of intricate, elegant maneuvers that fend off harm and allow the bladesinger to channel magic into devastating attacks and a cunning defense."
The bladesingers use their superior intelligence and training to block and dodge blows, predict the likely path of their opponents weapons and avoid the strikes. Mechanically, they end up adding both int and dex modifiers to their AC but can only wear light armor if any (mage armor might be the preferred option in most cases).
----
Anyway, the archetype isn't broken at all. Starting with two primary rolled stats at 20 IS.
I may have missed something, but those stats don't add up. You say they are level 2, so that puts the character's stat block in the same circumstances of a freshly created level 1 character.
Ability Scores:
If their highest rolled stats were 18 & 17, it's not possible to have started with two 20's. The highest bonus to a single ability score that a character can receive at creation is +2, and there are none (that I'm aware of) which give a +2 to more than one ability score. It is impossible to have a +3 bonus at creation, and it was designed this way on purpose. Even a Variant Human picking a feat that grants a +1 to an ability score cannot exceed a net +2 at creation.
A Bladesinger must be an Elf/Half-Elf, so of all those variant lineages, the absolute best that your player could have gotten was a +2 Dex/+1 Int. Wizard/Bladesinger does not provide any bonus to ability scores. Either your player cheated/made a mistake here, or you gave them a non-standard bonus that you haven't told us about.
AC:
It can't be 23. Unless you gave them something that you haven't told us about, it just cannot be that high. Even if we assume that the player rightfully has a 20 Dex & Int (which has been established as unlikely), it's still not possible. Let's start from the base:
A Bladesinger cannot use medium/heavy armor or a shield. If the player is using the strongest possible light armor (Studded Leather), that provides them with an AC of 12 + Dex. With a 20 Dex, that gives them a baseline maximum AC of 17. If they activate Bladesong (and actually have a 20 Int as well) that brings their AC max up to 22. That's the absolute highest a Bladesinger's AC can go without magic items, spells, etc. A level 2 Bladesinger is not going to have those.
The Shield spell is not a problem. Lots of classes get access to that spell one way or another. It is very powerful, yes, but it's also a spell slot for a less than a single round of benefit. As others have said, there are plenty of non-AC dependent ways of challenging a player in combat. However, if that AC bonus were a definitive factor in whether the character is "touchable" in combat, then you can easily force them to burn through their resources quickly, and proceed to punish them for blowing their load. 🤷♂️
If the player rolled an 18 and 17 then a high elf would end up with 20 dex and 18 int.
Casting mage armor gives an AC of 13+ dex
Bladesong gives: "You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of+ 1)."
With a 20 dex and 18 int this gives a base AC of 13+5+4 = 22. (The character should not start with two 20's if they rolled an 18 and 17)
If they had 20 int as well it would be 23 AC with Mage Armor (rather than studded leather).
Anyway, the difference between 22/27 and 23/28 is pretty minimal at tier 1.
David42, you're right, I didn't think about Mage Armor. However (as you've already noticed yourself), that doesn't change the bottom line: the player cannot possibly have the stats required to have a 23AC at level 2.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
How do you get a lvl 1 Fighter a 1500gp suit of armor?
The fighter example is silly because there's no official way to get that much money right off the bat, but their point about Barbarians is sound. The whole problem was that the player rolled for ability scores and started with two 20s right off the bat. They could've just as easily gone Barbarian instead of Wizard and had a permanent 22 AC, way more HP, and Rage.
Fair point, but that'd still put them at 21 with a shield. 10 + 5 CON + 4 DEX + 2 (shield) is still a lot and they'd start off with 17 HP and get an average of 12 per additional level.
Fair point, but that'd still put them at 21 with a shield. 10 + 5 CON + 4 DEX + 2 (shield) is still a lot and they'd start off with 17 HP and get an average of 12 per additional level.
Cool, I totally know what I'm gonna do now /smirk
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
This subclass is VERY broken. Unlike barbarians and monks the added Intelligence to AC stacks with Mage Armor giving them a high AC on top of all the spells and abilities to avoid damage. My party is up to level 12 and the bladesinger is nearly invulnerable. He has just wrecked the game for the rest of us. He has taken no more than 30 points of damage total through the adventure from level 1
The standard run with access to just 2nd levels spells is AC 23 that raises to 28 with shield. He runs Blur and mirror image at the same time. That means enemies need to beat AC 23-28 with disadvantage. In most scenarios that that means rolling double crits just to hit (1:400 odds or 0.25% chance) IF you ever do hit he then gets a 75% chance of one of his mirror images taking the hit. Then even IF that fails bladesingers get the ability to expend a spell a lot to negate damage equal to 5x the spell level!
If you’re going to say “hey he’s dead if he loses concentration, right?” ....except he gets to add his Intelligence modifier to Con saves to maintain concentration. Basically only if he rolls a 1-3 does he lose concentration.
But what about AOE attacks or charms? Elves get advantage on saves vs charm and bladesingers get advantage on Dex saves when doing the bladesong thing. I could go on and on and of every scenario where the bladesinger just brushes it off.
When I DM bladesingers are off the table unless it’s a solo. The power level is not the problem. It’s the power level compared to other characters at the table. It’s so unbalanced it just not fun for anyone else
Then use paralysing effects. Bladesong goes away if they're incapacitated - stuns, paralysis, etc a simple hypnotic pattern, all make it disappear and paralysis offers auto-crit against them too.
Restrain/grapple - they'll often have sucky strength.
Throw a Beholder or anything with Antimagic.
So many ways to so easily deal with Bladesingers, I find it so baffling anybody has trouble with them at all.
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This subclass is VERY broken. Unlike barbarians and monks the added Intelligence to AC stacks with Mage Armor giving them a high AC on top of all the spells and abilities to avoid damage. My party is up to level 12 and the bladesinger is nearly invulnerable. He has just wrecked the game for the rest of us. He has taken no more than 30 points of damage total through the adventure from level 1
If his AC is so high, why have you spent 12 levels of play attacking it? A PC has 6 separate saves to attack against for this very reason! Make a disarming attack to him, grapple him, etc. Complaining about how little damage he has taken is a failure on the DM to understand the tactics available to them.
The standard run with access to just 2nd levels spells is AC 23 that raises to 28 with shield. He runs Blur and mirror image at the same time. That means enemies need to beat AC 23-28 with disadvantage. In most scenarios that that means rolling double crits just to hit (1:400 odds or 0.25% chance) IF you ever do hit he then gets a 75% chance of one of his mirror images taking the hit. Then even IF that fails bladesingers get the ability to expend a spell a lot to negate damage equal to 5x the spell level!
In order to get this he has to spend 3 spell slots (mage armor, blur, mirror image), and two full rounds of combat in casting them. With combat averaging 3-4 rounds, he is only being 50% as a melee damage dealer. By then, a 12th level Barbarian and/or Fighter could have ended the fight.
If you’re going to say “hey he’s dead if he loses concentration, right?” ....except he gets to add his Intelligence modifier to Con saves to maintain concentration. Basically only if he rolls a 1-3 does he lose concentration.
But he doesn't get to add any of this to his check to avoid being grappled, shoved, disarmed, or to avoid a trap, spell, hazard. One has to be creative. All this toe-to-toe stuff is a bore, and ends in discussions like this.
But what about AOE attacks or charms? Elves get advantage on saves vs charm and bladesingers get advantage on Dex saves when doing the bladesong thing. I could go on and on and of every scenario where the bladesinger just brushes it off.
None of this helps with this 5 other types of saves. Get creative!
paralyzing attack? Can’t hit him. Paralyzing spell? Counterspell. Charm? Has advantage. Other abilities? Casts improved invisibility and can’t be targeted by spells and abilities requiring line of sight. Can a DM come up with an encounter to defeat a bladesinger? Of course but we’re talking an entire campaign. You really think it’s fine to accept he/she just can’t be hit and every single encounter has to be loaded with special counter-bladesinger attacks and abilities? That is tedious, immersion breaking, and frustrating for the other players at the table as so much consideration needs to revolve around this one character. As I said. It’s not the power level. A DM can handle any power level. It’s the power level compared to other classes. It’s unbalanced to the extreme. I’ve played D&D since AD&D and I’ve never experienced a subclass this broken. This come from playing for 2 years now in a campaign with one from level 1 to level 12.
You’re still missing the point. I’ll say for a 3rd time. It’s not the power level. It’s the power level compared to the other characters at the same level. An entire campaign of special consideration for one character that is unhittable compared to the rest of the party is utterly ridiculous, immersion breaking, and frustrating to the party. I didn’t say the DM. I love that you’re like “why are you still trying to hit him after 2 years?” Lol. How dumb and immersion breaking if the DM just gives up on making attack rolls and only goes after the character with special anti-bladesinger attacks? You prove my point. You would just stop attacking the bladesinger because it’s pointless....then what?. You only attack other party members and not the singer? Every encounter there has to be something specific for the bladesinger? That’s BS and you know it. No subclass In any version of D&D is meant to be unhittable with attack rolls. Every encounter starts to revolve around having bladesinger counter measures in every encounter. The other players can see that he never is hit like them and the DM has to come up with ways to handle him. Who enjoys playing like that? How many beholders are you going to throw at them how many mass hypnosis are going to send at them? Sometimes you want to have them face a pack of knolls...etc. you’re naming specific ways to get around a bladesinger and none of what you are saying is news. The point is this sub class adds an element that is very limiting and repetitive with encounters. Puzzles and traps fine. Great but saying being immune to an entire element of the game is fine because there are other elements to the game. It’s not fine. They should have done a better job with the sub class and actually play tested it. It’s is extremely unbalanced and adds a lot of frustration to the other players of a party. The party members decided to hold some PVP matches for fun before the sessions started. A level 12 bugbear Barbarian with bracers of defense and cloak of protection as well as a decent magic weapon vs the Bladesinger with a +1 sword. Battle was over in less than 5 turns. The bladesinger took 3 points of damage. The barbarian player was very experienced and knew what he was doing. It was no contest. Same result facing the warlock, Sorcerer, fighter, Druid, and Cleric. Some matches the blade singer took 0 damage. The only other player where it was even a close battle was the revised Ranger with a +13 to hit with a longbow and ways to grant himself advantage on attacks. Even then he lost. The battles were extremely one sided. I’d be fine with bladesinger subclass if it was of a comparable power level to other subclasses. Not even close.
By 12th level, the party should have established a reputation for themselves. Along with their reputation and fame, their general strengths and weaknesses will be well known. It would not be unheard of for an attacker to know how to defeat a Bladesinger. Maybe even another Bladesinger.
Alright RP reasons behind a Bladesinger having high AC:
Bladesingers are elves who bravely defend their people and lands. They are elf wizards who master a school of sword fighting grounded in a tradition of arcane magic.
As such an elf, just starting out to adventure, is between 100-200 years old. This gives them a LOT longer to learn the intricacies of their magic and their sword beyond a mere human.
In combat, a bladesinger uses a series of intricate, elegant maneuvers that fend off harm and allow the bladesinger to channel magic into devastating attacks and a cunning defense.
The Elves have learned how to be more capable on the battlefield, designing a combat style that is dedicated to defense. Spending, at minimum, a century working on being adept at it.
Styles of Bladesinging are broadly categorized based on the type of weapon employed, and each is associated with a category of animal.
Much like Kung-Fu/martial arts, the practitioner may still take a hit or two but they have learned how to mitigate that damage so that it causes little to no harm.
----
Now, to the point:
I have a Drow Draconic Sorcerer in one game, his AC at level 2 is 18, then I cast shield and I get 23.
A player at my table has a Barbarian who's AC at level 1 is 19/21.
The problem is not the subclass. What we have is a power gamer who optimized their character. Then there was a combat scenario that allowed this person to use this optimized character to it's fullest extent. It sounds just like when there is a Barbarian of the Bear Totem, they get two 18s which allows them an 19 AC, then they pick up a shield which bumps it to 21. Now you have an almost unkillable character at level 3.
You're frustrated, you're upset, and it's understandable. However, the subclass is not broken, the situation is not unique, and it's something that can be worked with. Learn from your mistakes, change your tactics, and use this chance to rise to the challenge. If something like this is enough to get you that upset, you may even need to take a break from the game. It's not worth getting that worked up over.
To answer your final question: As someone who (for some strange reason) only plays the Wizard class, I have to say that I like the Bladesinger and have happily played one to higher levels when I wanted to be a melee character - though at those higher levels I all but gave up the melee and just played a full caster. But as someone who is a 95% DM, I do not see it as broken in any bit... only annoying from time to time.
I believe the core of the problem that you encountered is allowing your PCs to roll for stats, and then creating low level encounters based on the 5e balance and bounded accuracy... that's just not going to work. As much as us older farts love our stat rolling, 5e was not made for that when you really think about it. With the ability for stat bumps every 4 levels (or less), good starting rolls can lead to some obnoxiously statted players by level 8. In the old ad&d days we didn't have those stat bumps - what you rolled was pretty much it (give or take a magic item here and there), it just wasn't built into leveling like in 5e. But this is a discussion I don't care to have on here, so I'll leave it at that - my opinion (which likely will never change because I'm a grumpy old bastard).
Given the above, your friend's Bladesinger was attacking and defending like a much much higher level PC, and (I'm assuming here) your encounter was geared towards 1st-2nd level AC and TO-HIT. If my assumption is wrong, I apologize.
To address your other question/point (if I may)
"RP reasons that this wizard aka a scholar who spends his life reading to gain arcane knowledge is harder to hit than the monks and fighters who spend their whole lives training to"
Now... this is how I explained this very thing in my group long ago. His Intelligence comes into play from study of fighting techniques, animal and monster behavior, and knowing his own limits. Knowledge of geometry, physics, etc has taught him how to dodge an attack based on the foes weapon, body type, and terrain.
His Dexterity aids him in being quick enough to move out of the way or deflect a blow based upon his knowledge.
However, ALL of this gets bolstered by his magical abilities.
And even so, once that fighter gets a good Belt of Something Strength, +Whatever Armor of Something, and Boots of Arse Kicking, compared to an evenly leveled and statted Bladesinger..... well, that's when I said I just stuck back and played the Full Caster from that point (as mentioned above).
I feel your frustration though man. I used to get so pissed at the Power Builders. But I'm older now and don't get bothered by much. Now I just read the table. If I see that the one Player is dominating to the point where the others are upset and not cheering them on, I just do some DM magic and now the beastie has used his hidden ability to add a +3 to his AC or TO-HIT against the Bladesinger because he has been studying him.... or some other nonsense that I don't care to tell them about. It's all in the spirit of everyone having a fun time.
...cryptographic randomness!
I'm not seeing the problem. Surly the party is having more than two encounters per rest?
Traps?
AoE?
Save vs. Whatever, instead of Attack vs AC?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
If the Bladesinger is overpowered then so is the Barbarian. A lvl 1 barbarian with a Dex and Con of 20 and using a shield has an armor class of 22. And that isn't conditional like the Bladesingers AC bonus is.
Not to mention that a 1st level fighter wearing plate mail and shield with the defensive fighting style has an AC of 21.
The Bladesinger with max dex and int using mage armor has and AC of 18 except for 2 minutes per short rest where it is 23, when he is bladesing. So while the Wizard has slightly higher max AC it is very conditional and time limited. The barbarian and fighter have almost as good AC that is persistent and much more hitpoints to be able to weather any damage.
How do you get a lvl 1 Barb, Dex and Con 20?
How do you get a lvl 1 Fighter a 1500gp suit of armor?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I may have missed something, but those stats don't add up. You say they are level 2, so that puts the character's stat block in the same circumstances of a freshly created level 1 character.
If their highest rolled stats were 18 & 17, it's not possible to have started with two 20's. The highest bonus to a single ability score that a character can receive at creation is +2, and there are none (that I'm aware of) which give a +2 to more than one ability score. It is impossible to have a +3 bonus at creation, and it was designed this way on purpose. Even a Variant Human picking a feat that grants a +1 to an ability score cannot exceed a net +2 at creation.
A Bladesinger must be an Elf/Half-Elf, so of all those variant lineages, the absolute best that your player could have gotten was a +2 Dex/+1 Int. Wizard/Bladesinger does not provide any bonus to ability scores. Either your player cheated/made a mistake here, or you gave them a non-standard bonus that you haven't told us about.
It can't be 23. Unless you gave them something that you haven't told us about, it just cannot be that high. Even if we assume that the player rightfully has a 20 Dex & Int (which has been established as unlikely), it's still not possible. Let's start from the base:
A Bladesinger cannot use medium/heavy armor or a shield. If the player is using the strongest possible light armor (Studded Leather), that provides them with an AC of 12 + Dex. With a 20 Dex, that gives them a baseline maximum AC of 17. If they activate Bladesong (and actually have a 20 Int as well) that brings their AC max up to 22. That's the absolute highest a Bladesinger's AC can go without magic items, spells, etc. A level 2 Bladesinger is not going to have those.
The Shield spell is not a problem. Lots of classes get access to that spell one way or another. It is very powerful, yes, but it's also a spell slot for a less than a single round of benefit. As others have said, there are plenty of non-AC dependent ways of challenging a player in combat. However, if that AC bonus were a definitive factor in whether the character is "touchable" in combat, then you can easily force them to burn through their resources quickly, and proceed to punish them for blowing their load. 🤷♂️
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
1) The sub class isn't broken. Wizards have very poor hit points. There are lots of threats that can be dangerous to them.
2) I've seen almost any martial class at higher levels with comparable AC from various class features and magic items as well as access to the shield spell. It isn't uncommon in tier 2.
3) A typcial tier 1 blade singer would have an AC of 19. 13 from mage armor +3 dex, +3 int ... boosted to 24 with shield. Low hit points/good AC.
4) The ISSUE in this case is the the character started with 20 in dex and int due to rolled stats. The game is not designed in terms of balance around characters with maxed level 20 stats at level 1. A level 20 bladesinger would likely have the AC of your 2nd level character. Would you complain about it then?
5) I have seen bladesingers played in Adventurer's League, they are fun, they can be quite impressive but they aren't OP compared to many other builds. They are pretty much in line with balance since a wizard is typically much more useful at higher levels standing back casting than running in to melee. Most of the higher level bladesingers I have seen in play cast spells and only hop into melee when they don't have something better to do (Mobile feat goes a long way helping with this playstyle).
6) From a lore perspective, read SCAG where the bladesinger is introduced.
"Bladesingers are elves who bravely defend their people and lands. They are elf wizards who master a school of sword fighting grounded in a tradition of arcane magic. In combat, a bladesinger uses a series of intricate, elegant maneuvers that fend off harm and allow the bladesinger to channel magic into devastating attacks and a cunning defense."
The bladesingers use their superior intelligence and training to block and dodge blows, predict the likely path of their opponents weapons and avoid the strikes. Mechanically, they end up adding both int and dex modifiers to their AC but can only wear light armor if any (mage armor might be the preferred option in most cases).
----
Anyway, the archetype isn't broken at all. Starting with two primary rolled stats at 20 IS.
If the player rolled an 18 and 17 then a high elf would end up with 20 dex and 18 int.
Casting mage armor gives an AC of 13+ dex
Bladesong gives: "You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of+ 1)."
With a 20 dex and 18 int this gives a base AC of 13+5+4 = 22. (The character should not start with two 20's if they rolled an 18 and 17)
If they had 20 int as well it would be 23 AC with Mage Armor (rather than studded leather).
Anyway, the difference between 22/27 and 23/28 is pretty minimal at tier 1.
David42, you're right, I didn't think about Mage Armor. However (as you've already noticed yourself), that doesn't change the bottom line: the player cannot possibly have the stats required to have a 23AC at level 2.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It's only twice before needing a rest so not that big a deal either.
Even with the song up some things will need a crit in order to hit. A lvl 2-3 wizards getting crit by just about anything is going to be hurting.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
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-OboeLauren
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The fighter example is silly because there's no official way to get that much money right off the bat, but their point about Barbarians is sound. The whole problem was that the player rolled for ability scores and started with two 20s right off the bat. They could've just as easily gone Barbarian instead of Wizard and had a permanent 22 AC, way more HP, and Rage.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Even if you lucked out by rolling two 18s (I've seen 4 before) what race gives +2 Dex and +2 Con? Or +2 and +2 for anything?
How do you get Perm AC 22 at lvl 1?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Fair point, but that'd still put them at 21 with a shield. 10 + 5 CON + 4 DEX + 2 (shield) is still a lot and they'd start off with 17 HP and get an average of 12 per additional level.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Cool, I totally know what I'm gonna do now /smirk
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
This subclass is VERY broken. Unlike barbarians and monks the added Intelligence to AC stacks with Mage Armor giving them a high AC on top of all the spells and abilities to avoid damage. My party is up to level 12 and the bladesinger is nearly invulnerable. He has just wrecked the game for the rest of us. He has taken no more than 30 points of damage total through the adventure from level 1
The standard run with access to just 2nd levels spells is AC 23 that raises to 28 with shield. He runs Blur and mirror image at the same time. That means enemies need to beat AC 23-28 with disadvantage. In most scenarios that that means rolling double crits just to hit (1:400 odds or 0.25% chance) IF you ever do hit he then gets a 75% chance of one of his mirror images taking the hit. Then even IF that fails bladesingers get the ability to expend a spell a lot to negate damage equal to 5x the spell level!
If you’re going to say “hey he’s dead if he loses concentration, right?” ....except he gets to add his Intelligence modifier to Con saves to maintain concentration. Basically only if he rolls a 1-3 does he lose concentration.
But what about AOE attacks or charms? Elves get advantage on saves vs charm and bladesingers get advantage on Dex saves when doing the bladesong thing. I could go on and on and of every scenario where the bladesinger just brushes it off.
When I DM bladesingers are off the table unless it’s a solo. The power level is not the problem. It’s the power level compared to other characters at the table. It’s so unbalanced it just not fun for anyone else
Then use paralysing effects. Bladesong goes away if they're incapacitated - stuns, paralysis, etc a simple hypnotic pattern, all make it disappear and paralysis offers auto-crit against them too.
Restrain/grapple - they'll often have sucky strength.
Throw a Beholder or anything with Antimagic.
So many ways to so easily deal with Bladesingers, I find it so baffling anybody has trouble with them at all.
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This subclass is VERY broken. Unlike barbarians and monks the added Intelligence to AC stacks with Mage Armor giving them a high AC on top of all the spells and abilities to avoid damage. My party is up to level 12 and the bladesinger is nearly invulnerable. He has just wrecked the game for the rest of us. He has taken no more than 30 points of damage total through the adventure from level 1
If his AC is so high, why have you spent 12 levels of play attacking it?
A PC has 6 separate saves to attack against for this very reason! Make a disarming attack to him, grapple him, etc.
Complaining about how little damage he has taken is a failure on the DM to understand the tactics available to them.
The standard run with access to just 2nd levels spells is AC 23 that raises to 28 with shield. He runs Blur and mirror image at the same time. That means enemies need to beat AC 23-28 with disadvantage. In most scenarios that that means rolling double crits just to hit (1:400 odds or 0.25% chance) IF you ever do hit he then gets a 75% chance of one of his mirror images taking the hit. Then even IF that fails bladesingers get the ability to expend a spell a lot to negate damage equal to 5x the spell level!
In order to get this he has to spend 3 spell slots (mage armor, blur, mirror image), and two full rounds of combat in casting them. With combat averaging 3-4 rounds, he is only being 50% as a melee damage dealer. By then, a 12th level Barbarian and/or Fighter could have ended the fight.
If you’re going to say “hey he’s dead if he loses concentration, right?” ....except he gets to add his Intelligence modifier to Con saves to maintain concentration. Basically only if he rolls a 1-3 does he lose concentration.
But he doesn't get to add any of this to his check to avoid being grappled, shoved, disarmed, or to avoid a trap, spell, hazard. One has to be creative. All this toe-to-toe stuff is a bore, and ends in discussions like this.
But what about AOE attacks or charms? Elves get advantage on saves vs charm and bladesingers get advantage on Dex saves when doing the bladesong thing. I could go on and on and of every scenario where the bladesinger just brushes it off.
None of this helps with this 5 other types of saves.
Get creative!
...cryptographic randomness!
paralyzing attack? Can’t hit him. Paralyzing spell? Counterspell. Charm? Has advantage. Other abilities? Casts improved invisibility and can’t be targeted by spells and abilities requiring line of sight. Can a DM come up with an encounter to defeat a bladesinger? Of course but we’re talking an entire campaign. You really think it’s fine to accept he/she just can’t be hit and every single encounter has to be loaded with special counter-bladesinger attacks and abilities? That is tedious, immersion breaking, and frustrating for the other players at the table as so much consideration needs to revolve around this one character. As I said. It’s not the power level. A DM can handle any power level. It’s the power level compared to other classes. It’s unbalanced to the extreme. I’ve played D&D since AD&D and I’ve never experienced a subclass this broken. This come from playing for 2 years now in a campaign with one from level 1 to level 12.
You’re still missing the point. I’ll say for a 3rd time. It’s not the power level. It’s the power level compared to the other characters at the same level. An entire campaign of special consideration for one character that is unhittable compared to the rest of the party is utterly ridiculous, immersion breaking, and frustrating to the party. I didn’t say the DM. I love that you’re like “why are you still trying to hit him after 2 years?” Lol. How dumb and immersion breaking if the DM just gives up on making attack rolls and only goes after the character with special anti-bladesinger attacks? You prove my point. You would just stop attacking the bladesinger because it’s pointless....then what?. You only attack other party members and not the singer? Every encounter there has to be something specific for the bladesinger? That’s BS and you know it. No subclass In any version of D&D is meant to be unhittable with attack rolls. Every encounter starts to revolve around having bladesinger counter measures in every encounter. The other players can see that he never is hit like them and the DM has to come up with ways to handle him. Who enjoys playing like that? How many beholders are you going to throw at them how many mass hypnosis are going to send at them? Sometimes you want to have them face a pack of knolls...etc. you’re naming specific ways to get around a bladesinger and none of what you are saying is news. The point is this sub class adds an element that is very limiting and repetitive with encounters. Puzzles and traps fine. Great but saying being immune to an entire element of the game is fine because there are other elements to the game. It’s not fine. They should have done a better job with the sub class and actually play tested it. It’s is extremely unbalanced and adds a lot of frustration to the other players of a party. The party members decided to hold some PVP matches for fun before the sessions started. A level 12 bugbear Barbarian with bracers of defense and cloak of protection as well as a decent magic weapon vs the Bladesinger with a +1 sword. Battle was over in less than 5 turns. The bladesinger took 3 points of damage. The barbarian player was very experienced and knew what he was doing. It was no contest. Same result facing the warlock, Sorcerer, fighter, Druid, and Cleric. Some matches the blade singer took 0 damage. The only other player where it was even a close battle was the revised Ranger with a +13 to hit with a longbow and ways to grant himself advantage on attacks. Even then he lost. The battles were extremely one sided. I’d be fine with bladesinger subclass if it was of a comparable power level to other subclasses. Not even close.
Magic Missile
By 12th level, the party should have established a reputation for themselves. Along with their reputation and fame, their general strengths and weaknesses will be well known. It would not be unheard of for an attacker to know how to defeat a Bladesinger. Maybe even another Bladesinger.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale